SC2Mapster

You need to go to your battle.net client and from region / account select PTR. You have to DL 15GB :(

it says it is enabled it must have been activated on another computer and I cannot for the life of me figure out how to disable it in order to re-enable it and download it properly, I am about to punch my screen in out of frustration -.-

Ptr test realm is not available under came client downloads, and I cannot find any option to disable it anywhere, or re-download it or anything :(

Edit: oh NOW the little piece of UI pops up out of the blue... ill see if I can get this darned thing working now. I will be in a better mood when I make something that looks kickass.

So how long till someone makes Warcraft in Sc2 now then?

@wargirlwargirl: Go

yeah I knew it was usually there bur for some odd reason, it was not there the first 5-6 times, I then spent the next 30-40 mins bashing my head against every little sub section and button on the battle.net app and my account. The option then randomly popped up while checking it again in desperation, I am confused but happy that it is currently downloading.

I would like to make a WTE submission using these, it has been a long while since my last submission.

So this made me come back to SC2, nearly didn't see it as I've had SC2 unistalled for over a month.

So few questions if anyone knows the answers.

Do we have a nice Lighting Set for this that does the day/night cycle to go with this? Have they sorted out a nice way to do the % base armour, the last time I was here they added something but it wasn't great. Does Blight have to look like Creep, I place down necro buildings but all I see is creep no blight.

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Do we have a nice Lighting Set for this that does the day/night cycle to go with this?

Even if there is not one, it should not be too difficult to make one yourself.

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Have they sorted out a nice way to do the % base armour, the last time I was here they added something but it wasn't great.

WC3 did not have % based armor. It instead had EHP based armor similar to Diablo III. Every point of armor by default (changeable in gameplay constants) added 6% more toughness when taking attack damage additively. As such a unit with 100 armor would be able to take 600% more attack damage than a unit with 0 armor. The percentage you saw in the UI was based on the damage reduction needed to obtain this increase in toughness. This also meant that each point of armor was as effective as the last mechanically. Sure relatively they became less effective (1 armor at 100 armor is only a 1% increase) however that is the case for all such mechanics. Attacks could not be reduced below 1 damage (before armor type) so eventually toughness would flatline from certain sources.

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Does Blight have to look like Creep, I place down necro buildings but all I see is creep no blight.

I think that is a mechanical limitation with SC2. It cannot represent multiple types of creep. It would be possible to change creep into blight but then Zerg buildings would use Blight instead of Creep.

What might be a good idea is if Undead buildings were powered similar to protoss buildings. Blight could then be added as a terrain texture overlay similar to craters from missiles and artillery. In standard WC3 it grew so fast that propagation was not a tactical concern unlike with Creep where the growth limits your expansion speed.

Quote from Forge_User_04585675: Go

Even if there is not one, it should not be too difficult to make one yourself.

I have just would prefer one that is standard is all :)

Quote from Forge_User_04585675: Go

WC3 did not have % based armor. It instead had EHP based armor similar to Diablo III. Every point of armor by default (changeable in gameplay constants) added 6% more toughness when taking attack damage additively. As such a unit with 100 armor would be able to take 600% more attack damage than a unit with 0 armor. The percentage you saw in the UI was based on the damage reduction needed to obtain this increase in toughness. This also meant that each point of armor was as effective as the last mechanically. Sure relatively they became less effective (1 armor at 100 armor is only a 1% increase) however that is the case for all such mechanics. Attacks could not be reduced below 1 damage (before armor type) so eventually toughness would flatline from certain sources.

This is completely redundant information, the issue is that we couldn't add the % value to the UI before or add in the same formulae that were used in WC3.

The reason people would like to use the same system as it reduces the extra effort for redoing a game's balance that you have already made, tried and tested.

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the issue is that we couldn't add the % value to the UI before

The percentage value was meaningless anyway. You knew how effective your armor was simply by reading the amount (something SC2 UI does support).

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or add in the same formulae that were used in WC3.

Thanks to the "Life Armor Forumla" fields it actually is possible to implement WC3 style armor into SC2 and has been so for a long time already. I admit there is an "off-by-one" error for units at full life but that is trivial. In fact SC2 is even better than WC3 in that certain damage effects can be made to be reduced more or less by armor.

Maybe there is a catch to the armor system I do not know of, however it is giving the expected results. For example marine hitting thor with 5 armor set to 100% toughness per armor gives 1 damage (as expected as marines do 6 damage and the thor can take 6 times the damage before dying from armor toughness). Another example being a thor hitting a thor with 8 armor set to 100% toughness per armor gives 10 damage (as expected as thors do twice times 45 damage and thor can take 9 times more damage before dying so 90 / 9 = 10. Have you tried it for yourself?

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Hmm... the way they chose to implement "attack ground" is rather clunky, using a behavior for the cooldown. That means attack speed modifiers won't work, and it's possible to shoot more often by alternating between attack ground and targeting a unit.

It would be better to spawn a dummy unit at the target point and order the caster to attack it. The same ability could be used for any unit instead of having to use separate ones. I could make a demo map if I thought Blizzard would listen.

I notice Thorns Aura has a search, an apply behavior and a damage effect (that does 0) but no behavior. Unless functions for damage/modification based on damage response amounts are implemented, I can't see how they can do it without triggers.

It is possible some of the features are aimed at LotV as that is the version they use for internal development.

Thanks imperialgood, I didnt even realize it was possible to do warcraft 3 armor in sc2, and it seems you have figured it out . and very ezz as well to implement.

quote "You knew how effective your armor was simply by reading the amount (something SC2 UI does support)."

is there a way to put it in UI so that when i mouseover the armor on a unit i see the Armor number plus the percentage reduced written out ?

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quote "You knew how effective your armor was simply by reading the amount (something SC2 UI does support)."

is there a way to put it in UI so that when i mouseover the armor on a unit i see the Armor number plus the percentage reduced written out ?

Someone posted a formula long ago that allows it I think.

It was...

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<d ref=" (Unit,UnitID,LifeArmor * Unit,UnitID,LifeArmorFormula.PositiveDamageRatio / ( 1 + (Unit,UnitID,LifeArmorFormula.PositiveDamageRatio * Unit,UnitID,LifeArmor ) ) ) * 100"/>

I have no idea how well it works but the major flaw of it apparently was a lack of negative armor support.

That doesn't take into account any buffs that are on the unit, and given how many armor buffs there are in WC3, that's a pretty fatal flaw since the % generated will just be flat out wrong most of the time.

Kinda hoping that a proper % armor tooltip gets added to the engine. That and Thorns Aura type damage reflection are two things that I'd like to see added with the WC3 patch.

@TyaArcade: Go

you sure this is correct? From my testing, say I have a hero with 1 armor. If i add an item that grants 12 armor via the behaviour (Modification-Life Armor Bonus field) to the hero i see a noticeable reduction in damage taken when the hero is attacked. You sure the scaling is off? It should be roughly 1+12 = 13 total armor times .06... Which is roughly 78% damage reduction, However armor should stack diminishingly the more you get so it should actually be considerably less than 78% damage reduction.

I was talking about the tooltip in the post above mine. The damage reduction will be correct in-game!

Quote from TyaArcade: Go

I was talking about the tooltip in the post above mine. The damage reduction will be correct in-game!

Thank goodness, you had me scared. I put in a ton of work into my map under the assumption the armor was working correctly. Glad it is :)

Yea any idea how fix that UI so its easily recognizable how much reduction each hero is getting?

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you sure this is correct? From my testing, say I have a hero with 1 armor. If i add an item that grants 12 armor via the behaviour (Modification-Life Armor Bonus field) to the hero i see a noticeable reduction in damage taken when the hero is attacked. You sure the scaling is off? It should be roughly 1+12 = 13 total armor times .06... Which is roughly 78% damage reduction, However armor should stack diminishingly the more you get so it should actually be considerably less than 78% damage reduction.

Your maths is incorrect. As I explained earlier WC3 armor increases EHP/Toughness (Diablo III terms) to attack damage. Although it appears to increase damage reduction with diminishing returns you must remember that damage reduction is exponential as far as toughness goes. The result is a linear increase in toughness.

The formula for Toughness multiplier...

armormod * armor + 1

In your case...

0.06 * 13 + 1 = 1.78 which means you can take 78% more attack damage before dying.

The formula for Damage reduction...

(armormod * armor) / (armormod * armor +1)

In your case... (0.06 * 13) / (0.06 * 13 + 1) = 0.43820224719101123595505617977528 = 44% damage reduction

Armor like this is useful for scaling in RPGs without having to resort to inflated health numbers. It also can make some attacks more or less effective.

Quote from Forge_User_04585675: Go

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you sure this is correct? From my testing, say I have a hero with 1 armor. If i add an item that grants 12 armor via the behaviour (Modification-Life Armor Bonus field) to the hero i see a noticeable reduction in damage taken when the hero is attacked. You sure the scaling is off? It should be roughly 1+12 = 13 total armor times .06... Which is roughly 78% damage reduction, However armor should stack diminishingly the more you get so it should actually be considerably less than 78% damage reduction.

Your maths is incorrect. As I explained earlier WC3 armor increases EHP/Toughness (Diablo III terms) to attack damage. Although it appears to increase damage reduction with diminishing returns you must remember that damage reduction is exponential as far as toughness goes. The result is a linear increase in toughness.

The formula for Toughness multiplier...

armormod * armor + 1

In your case...

0.06 * 13 + 1 = 1.78 which means you can take 78% more attack damage before dying.

The formula for Damage reduction...

(armormod * armor) / (armormod * armor +1)

In your case... (0.06 * 13) / (0.06 * 13 + 1) = 0.43820224719101123595505617977528 = 44% damage reduction

Armor like this is useful for scaling in RPGs without having to resort to inflated health numbers. It also can make some attacks more or less effective.

yea i know, hence why i need it for my map as i got lots of heroes in it with techs. For years i've been using a terrible method ( combination of sc2 armor+ some buffs to reduce the damage while limiting the stacking of certain armor increasing items.).. It was a terrible method and i'm so relieved we got access to an ez to implement war3 armor so i don't have to worry about stacking armor from massing defense items

And yes i knew my calculation was off, as i said in the last sentence "should be considerably less than 78%". I just didn't work it out but i know that if its war3 armor and its working correct, that 44% is what i expect due to the diminishing returns of stacking armor.

I like this system alot , because the first few armor points really make a big difference but prevents the late game abuse . Items like maul of corruption ( reducing 5 armor on the target) is huge.

Quote from FullasGames: Go

So how long till someone makes Warcraft in Sc2 now then?

working on something, estimate: 2 months