What this sounds like to me is not the Borg or the Zerg, but Replicators from Stargate SG-1. They start out as blocks to make the spider replicators, then the spiders combine to make queens and then they all combined to make a hyper drive!
Could we just focus on the Xel'Naga race and their hybrids? Sounds more promising especially because they are related to the Protoss race ( easier to guide when creating the models + we have two Hybird models already ) and are part of the StarCraft Galaxy.
I am very interested in creating this forth race, but, as I said, we need a team and a leader. Then we can finally just shoot with ideas on the wall of Creation ;D .
Awesome, I'm glad a few of you are interested. I'd be part of the team. I don't know too much, but I can learn quick and the like. My friend owes me a lot of favors, so he can make as much concept art as you might need.
I think the idea of just a Hybrid army is just too easy. Lets come up with something more random. They never talk about anything outside the sector, other then Earth, and maybe a little about worlds Zerg have consumed. So we could come up with basically anything. I say, ancient robot army, like the golden army from hell boy, or a federation of random aliens that fight together.
Before we come up with why type of creature it is, we have to figure out how the army fights, and how its different then the other three!
Hi there I'm a modeler/texturer/animator in search of a project, if you ever need some custom models just request me something (don't exaggerate though ;-p) when you'll have decided and polished your concept.
I'm also a wannabe 2D concept artist, you could ask me to draw a concept from a description. I would be glad to try it out.
If your going for small amounts of powerful units there's the Dawn of War route with the Necrons. Necron units were mostly free but took ages to build, as you captured resource points your build speed increases and your main building upgraded in readiness until it fully activated turning into a moveable unit that was one of the most powerful units in the game.
Something similar could be done here. Spending minerals to activate systems on your (maybe walking) buildings allowing faster construction/more advanced units. Your buildings can fight back but as a negative are also far more valuable to risk loosing.
You could also go for Warcraft 40k and use cyborg draenei, psionic centaur aliens, murloc space marines...
Also get some moderator to fix the typo in your thread title ;)
I'm thinking of something like a mobile vespian gas, where you have units that can move and fight and you have an option to have one go stationary and act as a turret. You can then have a worker come over and build a building on top of the unit.
Speaking as one who made these mistakes several times in SCBW modding:
-Keep micro and macro separate. Zerg Queens are pushing it, imo. My stupidest mod ever, FoTCDDaAoAtEtUaEtBfK, was ruined because it forced you to keep track of way too much just to get a decent income. Another mod, Code: Xanadu, had a similar problem with the X-Virus Replicators needing to cast Broodlings instead of auto-spawning larva.
-RTS tropes are there for a reason. There's nothing wrong with breaking them, but think before doing so. And if you're going to break one, don't do it halfway, like I did to the TRANCE faction in Code: Xanadu: I wanted upgrades to be a bigger part of their strategy than unit composition, but what I ended up with was a massfest of whatever was upgraded most.
-Unit roles should be distinctive, but without being too specialized. My unreleased mod FreeSpace 0 had this problem: Most units were completely interchangeable, with a few weird ones like the GVT Isis (which decimated capital ships that were in their base but was otherwise useless) or the SF Nephiliam (which was designed to be rushed) thrown into the mix.
-Make sure units are useful throughout the entire game, at least with upgrades. SF Nephiliam, again.
-Don't make things too different between races without careful consideration. STF (an awesome mod not made by me) had a different economy system for each race, but they were designed with each other in mind and it would have worked brilliantly if SC2 hadn't come out and killed SCBW modding. My C:X mod, on the other hand, just did it for the sake of being different and it failed miserably.
-Any really weird mechanics should either be localized to one unit, have no direct affect on other races in the game, or be a huge part of everyone's gameplay. Examples: Pylons are an unusual mechanic, but they don't directly affect Terran or Zerg players; Creep affects everyone in a game with Zerg; Graviton Beam is localized to the Phoenix. There are exceptions, of course, like the ERIS Array from Entropy's Edge (which could eliminate an entire army if used correctly), but the game must them that into consideration. Given that you have three pre-existing races to deal with here, you can't introduce any truly radical mechanics. (For example, an infinite-ranged teleport would be a bad idea, because you can't give the other races any form of counter for that.)
Take everything I just said with a grain of salt, 'cause it's ridiculously late here and I should have been asleep five hours ago. (Never drink coffee at 8:30 PM, unless you're prepared to not sleep. WHY DID I DO THAT.)
...I won't be helping directly here, but I can give feedback on various concepts, at least. And I guess I can do any really complicated data editor work.
Btw, a protoss/zerg hybrid as a 4th race would be terrible. Protoss, Zerg, and Terran are so specific and different that it's extremely hard to come with a 4th without repeating the style of the other races. Just throwing a mix of 2 of them and calling it a race would be bad for that reason.
Imo, if you want to come with a whole new and original race, you should first focus on the lore : it's really much more important that we are led to believe. Zergs use larvas and can spawn numerous creatures at once, because of their insect-beast origin, and the whole idea of "hive" behind it. That's why their unit have a low cost, too.
Protoss are not as numerous but fierce and old and have to be teleported from their homeplanet to the fight : they have high cost and slow "construction" time.
That's only a small part of it and you can come with a whole set of reasons why lore is really important in the process of making this 4th race.
Imo, the best bet to make an original and unique 4th race would be an artificial race, like Cylons in a way. I find it a good idea since it doesn't introduce a 4th race out of the blue, but rather introduce their creation, a mecanized army that lost their maker. What come to mind first would be that they evolve and learn at high speed, but that would make it too much like the zergs. I would give them a goal : to subsist, they go from planets to planets to find source of energy or something a bit original, apart from the other 3 races' priorities.
Now I have a hard time imagining their robotic appareance without copying toss or zergs in the process.
Ok, so it has been quite some time since someone looked at this thread, so I reckon no one will even read this. Never the less, I've given it a bit of thought and have come up with my best idea for a forth race.
So this race is really two races, half and half. But you can basically play a whole game with just the main race, and not even use the other. The main race is huge robots. Long ago they were made by the Xelnaga, but forgotten. They recently wake back up. Of course the Xelnaga are now dead, so they plot revenge against the three races that they think might have killed them. They style themselves as the new Xelnaga, and take on parenting child races. One race in particular have come to think of the robots as gods, and fallow them everywhere and fighting with along side them. I'm thinking a cross in between Fremen and Kroot. So their collective goal is to destroy the races they think killed the Xelnaga, and to take control of the universe to rule over all the lesser races. Starcraft takes place in only one sector, so I can only assume, scattered all over the place, are lesser non-warp capable, stuck on their home world.
Robots: clunky, bulky, but still powerful units. Don't want to rip off any hive mind, so each bot has its own personality. They are ruled by the larger bots, who maybe used to be in other bodies. I think design wise something like the fallout robots. The theme of the whole army is expansion. Building and units can be made quickly, numbers of built units can be stored and then made in an instant. They fight from mobile bases, because units can make other units. Only a few building are made by the worker unit, the rest are made by the building themselves. So they can build something to block and expansion, but they can't proxy a rax very easily. about half of their units are "mother" units, in that they can make most of the other units. So lets say there last unit, in the same tier as the mother ship, can make just about every unit, is a death ball in and of itself. I talked about that replicator supply building, here is a better idea: for a price, it spawns 8 Gremlins. They can attack, but they can also repair other units and building. Whey they repair, they east up some of there own health. Gremlins can't repair other Gremlins. I have a lot of other unit idea's but that's all for them for now.
Natives: more of a contently evolving and collective race. They have only one structure, the village, that itself is the CC and rax and everything else in one. This structure can also move, it takes a bit to pack up, then turns into a hoard of the natives, that can either move to a new location or attack as a huge hoard. the only other building is a supply building, a farm of course. The natives have their own worker unit, its a group of kids. They do all the harvesting. Then you can select them to train. They go back to the village and train into a warrior unit. then this unit can go back and train into a stronger unit. so basically they have have one unit, that keeps growing over the game, but of course you can have as many of them as you want. Also most upgrades effect every single unit. Lets say, double attack, or invisibility, the list goes on.
Over all I think this is so different then the other races it will work. Of course balance work would need to be done. I have a lot of idea for different units. In terms of ranking against the other races, the robots would have the health of protoss, while the gremlins and natives would be weak like zerg. of course lots of strats could be used, but i think the main one would be, using the robots as your main army, and having the natives sneak around to all the expo's and suck up all the resources.
Ok that's my idea. Sorry if my writing ain't no good haven't written in awhile. I think this is something this site should come together and do. Once we've figured out what units we want, it would be super easy to make.
I uinderstand we have the basic idea, but an idea for a hybrid race struck me out of the blue earlier and I felt the need to share it:
It would play as a combination of Protoss and Zerg. The Nexus would both build worker units, as well as both hybrid variants, and spawn a modified larva.
Rather than producing power, Pylons would gerate creep similiar to creep tumors. They can only be placed off creep, and all other buildings need to be placed on the creep.
Other buildings would both unlock zerg units from larva, or be able to produce protoss units. For example, building a gateway both unlocks zerglins and it can build zealots. To encourage a mixed army, each unit would only be about half as powerful as the protoss or zerg equivlents. Zerg units would take little population, while protoss units would take up much more.
The zerg side would be missing Overlords, overseers, queens, drones and mutalisks. The Protoss would be missing High and Dark templars, carriers, and the mothership. Structures would be mostly protoss based.
A certain structure would eventually allow the creation of the Hybrid reaver, with powerful attacks and high armor. But he has no shields and slow regeneration. After five of these structures are build, the psionic hybrid is unlocked; this one attacking at range and having less armor, but also possessing shields and high regeneration. These hybrids would take up a lot of population, and cost a lot to make.
To keep the style mixing well, all units and buildings would use a look similiar to the hybrid-worshipping protoss from Zeratul's mission, a grey and dark green.
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Or Xel Naga and their hybrid creations (all as once race)
What this sounds like to me is not the Borg or the Zerg, but Replicators from Stargate SG-1. They start out as blocks to make the spider replicators, then the spiders combine to make queens and then they all combined to make a hyper drive!
Could we just focus on the Xel'Naga race and their hybrids? Sounds more promising especially because they are related to the Protoss race ( easier to guide when creating the models + we have two Hybird models already ) and are part of the StarCraft Galaxy. I am very interested in creating this forth race, but, as I said, we need a team and a leader. Then we can finally just shoot with ideas on the wall of Creation ;D .
i would prefer a race of critters, just because its funnier
Awesome, I'm glad a few of you are interested. I'd be part of the team. I don't know too much, but I can learn quick and the like. My friend owes me a lot of favors, so he can make as much concept art as you might need.
I think the idea of just a Hybrid army is just too easy. Lets come up with something more random. They never talk about anything outside the sector, other then Earth, and maybe a little about worlds Zerg have consumed. So we could come up with basically anything. I say, ancient robot army, like the golden army from hell boy, or a federation of random aliens that fight together.
Before we come up with why type of creature it is, we have to figure out how the army fights, and how its different then the other three!
I still haven't found my race idea... meh. Will search better later.
The most important thing now is making it unique:
My ideas for my race (robot army):
I'll search it later to copy paste it as a whole, I thought it was pretty original :P.
Hi there I'm a modeler/texturer/animator in search of a project, if you ever need some custom models just request me something (don't exaggerate though ;-p) when you'll have decided and polished your concept.
I'm also a wannabe 2D concept artist, you could ask me to draw a concept from a description. I would be glad to try it out.
-RXMT
If your going for small amounts of powerful units there's the Dawn of War route with the Necrons. Necron units were mostly free but took ages to build, as you captured resource points your build speed increases and your main building upgraded in readiness until it fully activated turning into a moveable unit that was one of the most powerful units in the game.
Something similar could be done here. Spending minerals to activate systems on your (maybe walking) buildings allowing faster construction/more advanced units. Your buildings can fight back but as a negative are also far more valuable to risk loosing.
Also, the new race needs a mobile bunker, a transport where units can fire from :P.
PS: Yes, I haven't searched my previous race idea post yet... I forgot xDDD.
You could also go for Warcraft 40k and use cyborg draenei, psionic centaur aliens, murloc space marines...
Also get some moderator to fix the typo in your thread title ;)
@Kueken531: Go
fixed
We all know the fourth race was hinted in Warcraft 3.
An idea for the unit/building hybrids;
I'm thinking of something like a mobile vespian gas, where you have units that can move and fight and you have an option to have one go stationary and act as a turret. You can then have a worker come over and build a building on top of the unit.
Speaking as one who made these mistakes several times in SCBW modding:
-Keep micro and macro separate. Zerg Queens are pushing it, imo. My stupidest mod ever, FoTCDDaAoAtEtUaEtBfK, was ruined because it forced you to keep track of way too much just to get a decent income. Another mod, Code: Xanadu, had a similar problem with the X-Virus Replicators needing to cast Broodlings instead of auto-spawning larva.
-RTS tropes are there for a reason. There's nothing wrong with breaking them, but think before doing so. And if you're going to break one, don't do it halfway, like I did to the TRANCE faction in Code: Xanadu: I wanted upgrades to be a bigger part of their strategy than unit composition, but what I ended up with was a massfest of whatever was upgraded most.
-Unit roles should be distinctive, but without being too specialized. My unreleased mod FreeSpace 0 had this problem: Most units were completely interchangeable, with a few weird ones like the GVT Isis (which decimated capital ships that were in their base but was otherwise useless) or the SF Nephiliam (which was designed to be rushed) thrown into the mix.
-Make sure units are useful throughout the entire game, at least with upgrades. SF Nephiliam, again.
-Don't make things too different between races without careful consideration. STF (an awesome mod not made by me) had a different economy system for each race, but they were designed with each other in mind and it would have worked brilliantly if SC2 hadn't come out and killed SCBW modding. My C:X mod, on the other hand, just did it for the sake of being different and it failed miserably.
-Any really weird mechanics should either be localized to one unit, have no direct affect on other races in the game, or be a huge part of everyone's gameplay. Examples: Pylons are an unusual mechanic, but they don't directly affect Terran or Zerg players; Creep affects everyone in a game with Zerg; Graviton Beam is localized to the Phoenix. There are exceptions, of course, like the ERIS Array from Entropy's Edge (which could eliminate an entire army if used correctly), but the game must them that into consideration. Given that you have three pre-existing races to deal with here, you can't introduce any truly radical mechanics. (For example, an infinite-ranged teleport would be a bad idea, because you can't give the other races any form of counter for that.)
Take everything I just said with a grain of salt, 'cause it's ridiculously late here and I should have been asleep five hours ago. (Never drink coffee at 8:30 PM, unless you're prepared to not sleep. WHY DID I DO THAT.)
...I won't be helping directly here, but I can give feedback on various concepts, at least. And I guess I can do any really complicated data editor work.
This task was easy in WC3. :\
Btw, a protoss/zerg hybrid as a 4th race would be terrible. Protoss, Zerg, and Terran are so specific and different that it's extremely hard to come with a 4th without repeating the style of the other races. Just throwing a mix of 2 of them and calling it a race would be bad for that reason.
Imo, if you want to come with a whole new and original race, you should first focus on the lore : it's really much more important that we are led to believe. Zergs use larvas and can spawn numerous creatures at once, because of their insect-beast origin, and the whole idea of "hive" behind it. That's why their unit have a low cost, too.
Protoss are not as numerous but fierce and old and have to be teleported from their homeplanet to the fight : they have high cost and slow "construction" time.
That's only a small part of it and you can come with a whole set of reasons why lore is really important in the process of making this 4th race.
Imo, the best bet to make an original and unique 4th race would be an artificial race, like Cylons in a way. I find it a good idea since it doesn't introduce a 4th race out of the blue, but rather introduce their creation, a mecanized army that lost their maker. What come to mind first would be that they evolve and learn at high speed, but that would make it too much like the zergs. I would give them a goal : to subsist, they go from planets to planets to find source of energy or something a bit original, apart from the other 3 races' priorities.
Now I have a hard time imagining their robotic appareance without copying toss or zergs in the process.
Ok, so it has been quite some time since someone looked at this thread, so I reckon no one will even read this. Never the less, I've given it a bit of thought and have come up with my best idea for a forth race.
So this race is really two races, half and half. But you can basically play a whole game with just the main race, and not even use the other. The main race is huge robots. Long ago they were made by the Xelnaga, but forgotten. They recently wake back up. Of course the Xelnaga are now dead, so they plot revenge against the three races that they think might have killed them. They style themselves as the new Xelnaga, and take on parenting child races. One race in particular have come to think of the robots as gods, and fallow them everywhere and fighting with along side them. I'm thinking a cross in between Fremen and Kroot. So their collective goal is to destroy the races they think killed the Xelnaga, and to take control of the universe to rule over all the lesser races. Starcraft takes place in only one sector, so I can only assume, scattered all over the place, are lesser non-warp capable, stuck on their home world.
Robots: clunky, bulky, but still powerful units. Don't want to rip off any hive mind, so each bot has its own personality. They are ruled by the larger bots, who maybe used to be in other bodies. I think design wise something like the fallout robots. The theme of the whole army is expansion. Building and units can be made quickly, numbers of built units can be stored and then made in an instant. They fight from mobile bases, because units can make other units. Only a few building are made by the worker unit, the rest are made by the building themselves. So they can build something to block and expansion, but they can't proxy a rax very easily. about half of their units are "mother" units, in that they can make most of the other units. So lets say there last unit, in the same tier as the mother ship, can make just about every unit, is a death ball in and of itself. I talked about that replicator supply building, here is a better idea: for a price, it spawns 8 Gremlins. They can attack, but they can also repair other units and building. Whey they repair, they east up some of there own health. Gremlins can't repair other Gremlins. I have a lot of other unit idea's but that's all for them for now.
Natives: more of a contently evolving and collective race. They have only one structure, the village, that itself is the CC and rax and everything else in one. This structure can also move, it takes a bit to pack up, then turns into a hoard of the natives, that can either move to a new location or attack as a huge hoard. the only other building is a supply building, a farm of course. The natives have their own worker unit, its a group of kids. They do all the harvesting. Then you can select them to train. They go back to the village and train into a warrior unit. then this unit can go back and train into a stronger unit. so basically they have have one unit, that keeps growing over the game, but of course you can have as many of them as you want. Also most upgrades effect every single unit. Lets say, double attack, or invisibility, the list goes on.
Over all I think this is so different then the other races it will work. Of course balance work would need to be done. I have a lot of idea for different units. In terms of ranking against the other races, the robots would have the health of protoss, while the gremlins and natives would be weak like zerg. of course lots of strats could be used, but i think the main one would be, using the robots as your main army, and having the natives sneak around to all the expo's and suck up all the resources.
Ok that's my idea. Sorry if my writing ain't no good haven't written in awhile. I think this is something this site should come together and do. Once we've figured out what units we want, it would be super easy to make.
@overmancer: Go
http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/project-workplace/24471-community-project-2-information-thread/
Already have all the units and everything figured out, sorry :(
Great to be back and part of the community again!
I uinderstand we have the basic idea, but an idea for a hybrid race struck me out of the blue earlier and I felt the need to share it:
It would play as a combination of Protoss and Zerg. The Nexus would both build worker units, as well as both hybrid variants, and spawn a modified larva.
Rather than producing power, Pylons would gerate creep similiar to creep tumors. They can only be placed off creep, and all other buildings need to be placed on the creep.
Other buildings would both unlock zerg units from larva, or be able to produce protoss units. For example, building a gateway both unlocks zerglins and it can build zealots. To encourage a mixed army, each unit would only be about half as powerful as the protoss or zerg equivlents. Zerg units would take little population, while protoss units would take up much more.
The zerg side would be missing Overlords, overseers, queens, drones and mutalisks. The Protoss would be missing High and Dark templars, carriers, and the mothership. Structures would be mostly protoss based.
A certain structure would eventually allow the creation of the Hybrid reaver, with powerful attacks and high armor. But he has no shields and slow regeneration. After five of these structures are build, the psionic hybrid is unlocked; this one attacking at range and having less armor, but also possessing shields and high regeneration. These hybrids would take up a lot of population, and cost a lot to make.
To keep the style mixing well, all units and buildings would use a look similiar to the hybrid-worshipping protoss from Zeratul's mission, a grey and dark green.