Hey hey people, welcome to yet another Bi-Weekly Testing Thread!
As per an initiative from JayBorino and me, we've set up the Bi-Weekly Testing Thread, or BWTT, with the purpose of testing specific maps made by community members. What does this mean? Simple: editors in need of feedback suggest their own maps (either via PM to me or JayBorino, or by posting it in the intro thread), and we'll pick one that will be used for the BWTT.
For this exercise, we've once again picked a single player map that some of the older players and mappers on here may recognize. Mapper Coyc1 has made a map called "Banshee Strike", which is a remake of the old Sega Mega Drive game 'Urban Strike'. The player manages a tactical hovercraft Banshee, and is required to fulfill tasks such as destroying specific objects, saving hostages, and shipping cargo. It's a proper arcade game in the sense that no mouse is needed to play the map, and it should spark a bit of that Lost Vikings arcade machine feeling.
For the next two weeks, see if you can take the time to give the map a play-through and post your detailed feedback here. What did you like, what did you not like? What could be improved, and possibly: how?
This thread will stay up for two weeks, until tuesday, August 23, at which point I'll upload thread #10. Up until that point, all suggestions for maps that require testing are welcome - please put them in the general thread found here.
Loading screen went fast did not get to read much at all, there was some keys highlighted in a low quality image that i could see, no meaning to those given.
Game loads, i like the effort of making custom transmission UI, game tells me to move with W and Tab to open some menu.
No context here nothing told what i should be doing, no more instructions for keys i just randomly spam the highlighted keys that was shown in loading screen and stuff happens.
Zero UI to show what i should be doing other than map by pressing tab.
No mouse to click the buttons in the tab menu. (Later found that you navigate the UI with the numpad) (what if the player doesn't have a numpad?)
The WASD movement is really clunky and delayed. ( you can strafe backwards but not forward?)
Controls that i found
Num5 cloak/decloak (no indicator if the cloak is running out/ how long it lasts)
Num6; zooms in toward the banshee randomly.
Num1 or J; Does a line attack of rockets. (I guess there is ammo system because i can't shoot anymore) (again no indicator of this at all)
Num2 or K; Does normal banshee rockets, ammo for this too (no indicator)
Num3 or L; The banshee shoots really delayed machine guns toward it's facing (launch asset is centered at the banshee center not at his weapons)
It's really hard to hit stuff with no indicator of where the attacks will hit, only by guessing.
I like that i can destroy the sandbags and bridges, should be able to destroy trees and other environment objects too.
You can still select stuff even though you cant see your mouse cursor.
The grammar could use improvement.
What's the point of the medivac in the top right? (it can shoot missiles too, why?)
Really annoying fuel mechanic that just limits the gameplay, little that there is.
Terrain is basic.
TLDR; I have no clue what's happening and i run out of fuel before i can do anything meaningful toward the objectives.
Maybe we can set some sort of quality standard for the maps are submitted to the bi-weekly?? Seems like the last few have such poor quality that they're pretty much unplayable.
This map is definitely playable but has some things that need to be fixed, like only being able to use the numpad to navigate the menu and some objectives not completing if done out of order. I played this last night and will upload the video sometime this week on my channel. Definitely give this a chance. It takes a little while to get used to it but it has potential. You may end up hating the map but don't let others make that decision for you!
Regarding the quality standard. Every map maker is going to have a different idea of quality and will be bias towards their map one way or another, so this may be tricky. What we could do is have people quickly test a map beforehand but that is more work. I could help with that but I'm not going to be available every single week. What did you have in mind for implementing a quality standard?
Check out my YouTube channel for test playthroughs of custom campaigns as well as editor tutorial videos. Mapmakers, don’t hesitate to PM me if you would like me to test your campaign.
I honestly have just accepted what has been submitted to me on the main thread. My cup is not overfloweth with possibilities when it comes to this nor can I test them all in advance before having Moz post them. If anyone has an idea for how to better administer this, let me know. I had hoped this would be self-sufficient where we just take requests, but a couple in the past have made things challenging. Not to mention some of the creators disappear and don't even know their map is up for testing!
Anyway, sounds like this one is definitely playable, just very different which I think makes it a good candidate.
Visit my channel where I showcase custom content! Send me a PM or respond to my YouTube thread if you'd like to see your map/s on my channel (eventually!)
I guess maybe have at least 1 person play it before submission? In retrospect I may be jumping the gun based on other reviews but based on stuff like "Overall this was a very terrible experience of being lost and I wasn't going to sit through that for too long." Maybe we're just in a rut, I know there are tons of people working on cool projects so I'm optimistic, didn't mean to be such a Debbie downer.
Here's my playthrough of this map. Let me know if you have any questions.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Check out my YouTube channel for test playthroughs of custom campaigns as well as editor tutorial videos. Mapmakers, don’t hesitate to PM me if you would like me to test your campaign.
I don't think anything extra needs to be done. I thought the purpose of these threads is to provide the feedback needed for improvement.
Yes, but it's rather lame and unfair to people who put a lot of work into their map if projects get picked up that aren't even playable without some outside knowledge. Let alone if creators end up disappearing or not even responding to feedback they're getting. I've poked JayBo over this, which is what sparked the discussion. The problem is that sadly, it is a symptom of us not having the will and time to stay involved enough to double check everything. If someone wants to volunteer helping out picking and preparing the BWTT projects, toss me a PM.
For now, let's try to keep discussion relevant to Banshee Strike.
I think this discussion is pretty shameful. The only pitfall to the game is that if you press a key after it loads, you dont know the commands. This can easily be put onto a menu. If you do take the time to read the 5 lines (or the how to play section), telling you how to control your ship, then the game is completely playable. A lot of stuff can be displayed more readily; but you guys are talking as though the game is just a bunch of generic units smashed onto a screen.
Ive noticed in all of these threads that what people love/hate the most is loading screens. Are you kidding me? play the game as someone who enjoys playing games, not as an acclaimed video game director trying to smear a game that they believe was given far too much credit for what it offered.
My review:
What you need: something on screen, rather than pure button clicks for menus. Just an "objectives" button on the top left or righ to bring up a "tab" menu. Even just text on the screen saying, "(TAB) : Menu" or something simple. Also, a cursor in front of your ship to show your targetting area. After some playing, you pick up on it easily, but for the first few minutes, you have no idea if you are shooting at a unit, or the area behind him. A life bar, or the screen to flash red when you are hit. not knowing my life and fuel keeps me kinda scared.
What you got: A pretty good game; it reminds me of classic sega games. Im pretty sure i used to play this at my friends house when I was 10. This game clearly has time put into it. I would love to be able to play it co-op somehow. I think having an ally would increase play-ability a lot; especially if you plan to add in more difficult missions/maps in the future. Everyone loves a co-op! Often times, I have to stop and check my map to figure out where I am, and where I am going. It totally breaks concentration. This goes above with "what you need" having a moving minimap would be amazing. I think using a bunch of small UI elements would make your game far easier to pick up, and much more immersive.
Anyone who wants a review of gameplay, watch the video above; it shows a lot more than I can put into text.
I'm glad someone else enjoyed this map as well! I played this map for over 45 minutes and never got bored until I seemingly broke the map by destroying the bridge too early. It's definitely different but quite fun once you get the hang of it and you can tell that effort was put into it with the custom menus and gameplay. Just give it a chance.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Check out my YouTube channel for test playthroughs of custom campaigns as well as editor tutorial videos. Mapmakers, don’t hesitate to PM me if you would like me to test your campaign.
I watched DeltronLive's playthrough and I'd say the two biggest problems with this map are
1) It needs to allow access to the controls throughout the map and not just from the loading screen. If the player doesn't catch the controls or forgets some of the controls they need to have access to a controls page.
2) The game needs a hud of some sort. The player shouldn't be required to non-stop check the menu to see how close to death the banshee is, how much fuel they have left, or how much ammo they have. These values should be available to the player while they are playing.
This game is really unique. I hope it gets further development and gets polished up. It could become a really awesome game.
Another suggestion would be to have the game auto correct for aiming. What I mean is if the player's aim is a little off, it should still fire directly on top of an enemy unit which is sufficiently close. I think that change would properly compensate for the odd controls present in the map. This idea is used a bunch in FPSes on consoles for a similar reason.
Also having a reticle showing where the banshee is going to attack would help making attacking enemies much less frustrating. I believe DeltronLive suggested this in his video as well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Discord - Discord is a custom fan made campaign. When it's done it will have 30 missions and cover 3 interwoven stories.
Custom Campaign Initiative - Visit the Custom Campaign Initiative to see other authors campaigns.
I suppose it does bear mentioning that none of that discussion necessarily applies to Banshee Strike; I haven't actually tried the map. It's more that we've had complaints of unplayability in the past and without me trying stuff ahead of time that does potentially form a problem. Sorry Coyc, didn't mean to hijack your thread!
So I read the first few comments, then watched the first ten minutes of deltrons playthrough and then tried it myself.
I am with glorn, in that this discussion started shamefully.
Loadscreen: It even has the "waiting to press key" option enabled in order for the player to read what is written (almost complete rundown of controls!). I can only rant about players at this point, because: hey there is a loadscreen and the creator gives us an opportunity to read it all ... maybe we need to know this stuff?! Same for bnet tutorials. I know that most players don't look at those, but I don't really ahve a lot of respect for those. Are they expecting to get a full tutorial on every startup of the game, possibly delaying other players experience with it (this is not only about banshee strike but in general)? Ok, done ranting...
Next thing is the watchcom: well, if you don't know what to do, you can press the two keys suggested at the start: W - Lift Off and tab - Watchcom. The watchcome has a map with two nice markers on it which you could (maybe?) check out? Shoot these two and you get dialogue on how to continue.
Maybe this is an example of game literacy, I dont know...
edit: [In regards to game literacy: To me the controls felt intuitive (except in A/D in watchcom). WASD are move controls in sooo many games. JKLIOP is not so common, but also a reasonable option for putting your other hand. They are nicely grouped, which makes it easy for me to remember what is what: JKL row: attacks from strongest to weakest. IOP row (I would have preferred UIO) is the 'others' grouping. Strafe might have had a nicer place on 'space' you can use either thumb while pressing multiple buttons and because it is a movement control.]
Now to the actual critizicm of the map:
- As people have pointed out before, there are controls which are unusable for some (numpad) and some which are hard to find (A/D in watchcom)
- I would prefer the strafe to be a toggle instead of a hold button. If it isn't have to grab something like: two move keys + hold 4 + 1/2/3 to shoot what I try to target
- a targetting reticle would be nice (could it change color if over an enemy? I am asking because of the battlecruisers for which it is not directly clear where to shoot), maybe also have it as a toggle. An alternative solution could be a lock on as in dark souls and then you switch through the targets with some keys (although I suspect this is not the preferred solution since it is in an arcade tradition)
- The controls are not that bad (then again, I am someone who played through dark souls on keyboard only, so who am I to judge usability of controls). Maybe reduce the effect on the controls a little. Also, something people might have missed: there is an automated turn towards items to pick up. Maybe increase the range on this a little.
- The Watchcom (tab) is a good design in that it is economic to make and still looks quite nice! But as others pointed out, I also would have preferred minimap/ammo/fuel to be on the mainscreen in some way (maybe arrange them as togglable on the edges of the screens as if they were displays in an actual attack helicopter).
- What would have been great is a log, which let you display all previous communications. In addition to above suggestion, you could put the other half of your UI (unit stats, item decriptions, etc.) together with the log into a briefings screen.
- I didn't end the map in victory, because I couldn't figure out where to bring the orange container, before running out of fuel+lives, which I presume is the last thing you need to do before winning. (log for communcation pls. Or another method of making (some) objectives easier to look up)
- since tutorials were brought up, after the initial check sequence you could have like a mini-mission, which makes the player check his systems before starting. This means like a prompt: check that fuel and ammo are loaded [hint to press tab for watchcom or the respective key to turn on ammo and fuel hud in my above suggestion]; check briefing link is working: prompt player to use A/D to toggle through targets and 1/2/3 to display info on it.
- The controls are easy to remember, but you are probably gonna have to give people a screen where the controls are listed Banshee Field Manual! let them feel they are being unprofessional pilots by being unprepared (meaning: do NOT make them feel unprofessional, it is gonna come and bite you, as satisfactory as it may feel at first).
In conclusion: Coyc, if you are reading this, I feel your pain in having to spoon feed players and make sure they never get unconfortable, sadly this is part of the audience and you kind of have to design for it (ok, now I am really done ranting). What would actually keep me interested at this point, would be more difficulty. I feel like I don't have to worry about being shot down (even without banshee cloak). I think what is there actually is nicely crafted for the most part!
Hello mates! Geez, so many info here to load at my hull! =)
Thanks for feedback, im very glad that you are interested in this map.
I made 1.3 version without reading this thread and seems like 1.4 need to be done!
Its too late atm, but in a couple of days I will work on your posts and leave detailed reply.
I'm sorry for my harsh review at the front of this thread but, i don't feel like you should call it shameful, as i mentioned in the start of the post it was my "rambled thoughts" and thus my gut feeling of stuff i felt as i was playing. (i was alt tabbing in out of the game to write in this thread, maybe a bad idea looking back at it)
@zuPloed
"Loadscreen: It even has the "waiting to press key" option enabled in order for the player to read what is written"
I don't actually recall what happened with my loading screen but i think i alt tabbed out of the game when the arcade countdown started and then back in when the loading had completed and maybe pressed a key, to only see a catch a glimpse of the loading screen.
I also skipped the intro cutscene from the start accidentally, didn't even know it existed before i watched deltron's review.
"Next thing is the watchcom: well, if you don't know what to do, you can press the two keys suggested at the start: W - Lift Off and tab - Watchcom. The watchcome has a map with two nice markers on it which you could (maybe?) check out? Shoot these two and you get dialogue on how to continue."
The watchcom UI was really unintuitive to me, and i found that you could cycle it really late after i was already frustrated with the fuel system and laggy WASD movement.
This map has potential but not at this state for me, looking forward to see what 1.4 brings to address this thread.
I watched some Urban Strike gameplay videos and if Coyc1 can bring that gameplay modernized this map can be really good.
Ok, I suppose the tabbing explains a lot. No hard feelings.
Cycling in the watchcom I probably wouldn't have found on my own either. I knew it due to Trievas review and deltrons video.
What I was meaning to say is, that despite this the watchcom is set to the first objectives by default, so you have two flags which stand out on the map... Ok I suppose these could also mean anything... I guess I can concede this point.
Yeah, people are overreacting a little to the negative feedback. The map maker needs negative feedback to improve his map and his map definitely needs improvement.
It actually was people who didn't even know anything about the game who jumped to saying it was unplayable and such after reading other peoples reviews. No one who played it suggested that the game was entirely unplayable or that it was the worst game ever, but instead pointed out that the game gives little indication of how to play or where they should go outside of two things which were very easily missed by clicking past the loading screen (Never rely on the loading screen alone to teach people controls.) and pressing w which is pretty much the first key I'm going to press when I notice the mouse doesn't do anything.
Also the watchcom interface while compact is not really all that great. It's a lot of text which all looks the same. No different font, colors, or separation by dividers. Also having icons/graphics would probably help the watchcom UI be easier to take in. It's a really basic dialog which could be made to look much better. People really underestimate how much they can really do with dialogs.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Discord - Discord is a custom fan made campaign. When it's done it will have 30 missions and cover 3 interwoven stories.
Custom Campaign Initiative - Visit the Custom Campaign Initiative to see other authors campaigns.
Loading screen went fast did not get to read much at all, there was some keys highlighted in a low quality image that i could see, no meaning to those given.
The WASD movement is really clunky and delayed. ( you can strafe backwards but not forward?)
It's really hard to hit stuff with no indicator of where the attacks will hit, only by guessing.
I like that i can destroy the sandbags and bridges, should be able to destroy trees and other environment objects too.
You can still select stuff even though you cant see your mouse cursor.
The grammar could use improvement.
What's the point of the medivac in the top right? (it can shoot missiles too, why?)
Really annoying fuel mechanic that just limits the gameplay, little that there is.
Loading screen has info about keys used, but I dont like it, it will be changed as far as ingame help will be done
WASD is compromiss of some parameters and may be changed to be more controllable, but in loosing aesthetics of flight. Backward strafe is compromiss
too, because none of units can go backwards without turning. I really hate this thing.
Target crosshair is on in version 1.3 also zoom is tweaked an has target for easier picking up too.
Besides of sandbags and bridges, there are destroyable lightposts and buildings. No plans for trees, but urban items may be added to be destroyable.
Mouse should be completely turned off, please tell me what have you selected, when and how?
Grammar... English is not my native, and I will never know what i wrote wrong, please tell me.
Medivac is part of orginal Urban strike map, there is a transport chopper there. Though Banshee has only 4 places for human load, Medivac has 8 places.
Fuel mechanic is a part of game. It will make you think how to survive constantly.
I think this discussion is pretty shameful. The only pitfall to the game is that if you press a key after it loads, you dont know the commands. This can easily be put onto a menu. If you do take the time to read the 5 lines (or the how to play section), telling you how to control your ship, then the game is completely playable. A lot of stuff can be displayed more readily; but you guys are talking as though the game is just a bunch of generic units smashed onto a screen.
Ive noticed in all of these threads that what people love/hate the most is loading screens. Are you kidding me? play the game as someone who enjoys playing games, not as an acclaimed video game director trying to smear a game that they believe was given far too much credit for what it offered.
My review:
What you need: something on screen, rather than pure button clicks for menus. Just an "objectives" button on the top left or righ to bring up a "tab" menu. Even just text on the screen saying, "(TAB) : Menu" or something simple. Also, a cursor in front of your ship to show your targetting area. After some playing, you pick up on it easily, but for the first few minutes, you have no idea if you are shooting at a unit, or the area behind him. A life bar, or the screen to flash red when you are hit. not knowing my life and fuel keeps me kinda scared.
What you got: A pretty good game; it reminds me of classic sega games. Im pretty sure i used to play this at my friends house when I was 10. This game clearly has time put into it. I would love to be able to play it co-op somehow. I think having an ally would increase play-ability a lot; especially if you plan to add in more difficult missions/maps in the future. Everyone loves a co-op! Often times, I have to stop and check my map to figure out where I am, and where I am going. It totally breaks concentration. This goes above with "what you need" having a moving minimap would be amazing. I think using a bunch of small UI elements would make your game far easier to pick up, and much more immersive.
Anyone who wants a review of gameplay, watch the video above; it shows a lot more than I can put into text.
4/5 stars, would play more.
Hello, thanks for feedback. Ingame help will make alot, I will definetly make it. Seems a newbie player feels very uncomfortable. There will be some sort of hint and tutorial how to get objectives, shoot, move and pick up items.
A hud, other than Watchcom ruins remake concept, but may be used in further maps (its about minimap, HP/Fuel indicator). Stopping and checking situation is tactical side of game. You plan your move, where to fly, whom to kill, what to do, especially HOW to do. Wachcom enables pause of game.
Im going to make indication of hitting by flying up little text on Banshee and enemy (loosing HP). Cursor is done in ver1.3 and its turnable on/off by Num0 or M.
Co-Op will not be done in this map. But surely may be done in further maps. EG map will have different genre. Not "single player" as it is atm. With co-op you need onscreeen indicators like you are mentioned, and in that situation you are wright.
If this game reminded even just a little bit of original game to you - its mission is done. That was the point of doing all this! )
Hey hey people, welcome to yet another Bi-Weekly Testing Thread!
As per an initiative from JayBorino and me, we've set up the Bi-Weekly Testing Thread, or BWTT, with the purpose of testing specific maps made by community members. What does this mean? Simple: editors in need of feedback suggest their own maps (either via PM to me or JayBorino, or by posting it in the intro thread), and we'll pick one that will be used for the BWTT.
For this exercise, we've once again picked a single player map that some of the older players and mappers on here may recognize. Mapper Coyc1 has made a map called "Banshee Strike", which is a remake of the old Sega Mega Drive game 'Urban Strike'. The player manages a tactical hovercraft Banshee, and is required to fulfill tasks such as destroying specific objects, saving hostages, and shipping cargo. It's a proper arcade game in the sense that no mouse is needed to play the map, and it should spark a bit of that Lost Vikings arcade machine feeling.
The map can be found here:
battlenet://starcraft/map/2/193623 - Europe
battlenet://starcraft/map/1/276900 - US
For the next two weeks, see if you can take the time to give the map a play-through and post your detailed feedback here. What did you like, what did you not like? What could be improved, and possibly: how?
This thread will stay up for two weeks, until tuesday, August 23, at which point I'll upload thread #10. Up until that point, all suggestions for maps that require testing are welcome - please put them in the general thread found here.
Good luck and have fun to all!
Tried it, here's my rambled thoughts.
Loading screen went fast did not get to read much at all, there was some keys highlighted in a low quality image that i could see, no meaning to those given.
Game loads, i like the effort of making custom transmission UI, game tells me to move with W and Tab to open some menu.
No context here nothing told what i should be doing, no more instructions for keys i just randomly spam the highlighted keys that was shown in loading screen and stuff happens.
Zero UI to show what i should be doing other than map by pressing tab.
No mouse to click the buttons in the tab menu. (Later found that you navigate the UI with the numpad) (what if the player doesn't have a numpad?)
The WASD movement is really clunky and delayed. ( you can strafe backwards but not forward?)
Controls that i found
It's really hard to hit stuff with no indicator of where the attacks will hit, only by guessing.
I like that i can destroy the sandbags and bridges, should be able to destroy trees and other environment objects too.
You can still select stuff even though you cant see your mouse cursor.
The grammar could use improvement.
What's the point of the medivac in the top right? (it can shoot missiles too, why?)
Really annoying fuel mechanic that just limits the gameplay, little that there is.
Terrain is basic.
TLDR; I have no clue what's happening and i run out of fuel before i can do anything meaningful toward the objectives.
@Knallertton: Go
Ugh was excited to try this map but this is disheartening
<Click Here> To See My Epic Single Player Campaign (LifeForceCampaign.com)
@Mozared: Go
Maybe we can set some sort of quality standard for the maps are submitted to the bi-weekly?? Seems like the last few have such poor quality that they're pretty much unplayable.
<Click Here> To See My Epic Single Player Campaign (LifeForceCampaign.com)
@Bilxor: Go
This map is definitely playable but has some things that need to be fixed, like only being able to use the numpad to navigate the menu and some objectives not completing if done out of order. I played this last night and will upload the video sometime this week on my channel. Definitely give this a chance. It takes a little while to get used to it but it has potential. You may end up hating the map but don't let others make that decision for you!
Regarding the quality standard. Every map maker is going to have a different idea of quality and will be bias towards their map one way or another, so this may be tricky. What we could do is have people quickly test a map beforehand but that is more work. I could help with that but I'm not going to be available every single week. What did you have in mind for implementing a quality standard?
Check out my YouTube channel for test playthroughs of custom campaigns as well as editor tutorial videos. Mapmakers, don’t hesitate to PM me if you would like me to test your campaign.
I honestly have just accepted what has been submitted to me on the main thread. My cup is not overfloweth with possibilities when it comes to this nor can I test them all in advance before having Moz post them. If anyone has an idea for how to better administer this, let me know. I had hoped this would be self-sufficient where we just take requests, but a couple in the past have made things challenging. Not to mention some of the creators disappear and don't even know their map is up for testing!
Anyway, sounds like this one is definitely playable, just very different which I think makes it a good candidate.
Visit my channel where I showcase custom content! Send me a PM or respond to my YouTube thread if you'd like to see your map/s on my channel (eventually!)
@deltronLive: Go
I guess maybe have at least 1 person play it before submission? In retrospect I may be jumping the gun based on other reviews but based on stuff like "Overall this was a very terrible experience of being lost and I wasn't going to sit through that for too long." Maybe we're just in a rut, I know there are tons of people working on cool projects so I'm optimistic, didn't mean to be such a Debbie downer.
<Click Here> To See My Epic Single Player Campaign (LifeForceCampaign.com)
Here's my playthrough of this map. Let me know if you have any questions.
Check out my YouTube channel for test playthroughs of custom campaigns as well as editor tutorial videos. Mapmakers, don’t hesitate to PM me if you would like me to test your campaign.
Yes, but it's rather lame and unfair to people who put a lot of work into their map if projects get picked up that aren't even playable without some outside knowledge. Let alone if creators end up disappearing or not even responding to feedback they're getting. I've poked JayBo over this, which is what sparked the discussion. The problem is that sadly, it is a symptom of us not having the will and time to stay involved enough to double check everything. If someone wants to volunteer helping out picking and preparing the BWTT projects, toss me a PM.
For now, let's try to keep discussion relevant to Banshee Strike.
I think this discussion is pretty shameful. The only pitfall to the game is that if you press a key after it loads, you dont know the commands. This can easily be put onto a menu. If you do take the time to read the 5 lines (or the how to play section), telling you how to control your ship, then the game is completely playable. A lot of stuff can be displayed more readily; but you guys are talking as though the game is just a bunch of generic units smashed onto a screen.
Ive noticed in all of these threads that what people love/hate the most is loading screens. Are you kidding me? play the game as someone who enjoys playing games, not as an acclaimed video game director trying to smear a game that they believe was given far too much credit for what it offered.
My review:
What you need: something on screen, rather than pure button clicks for menus. Just an "objectives" button on the top left or righ to bring up a "tab" menu. Even just text on the screen saying, "(TAB) : Menu" or something simple. Also, a cursor in front of your ship to show your targetting area. After some playing, you pick up on it easily, but for the first few minutes, you have no idea if you are shooting at a unit, or the area behind him. A life bar, or the screen to flash red when you are hit. not knowing my life and fuel keeps me kinda scared.
What you got: A pretty good game; it reminds me of classic sega games. Im pretty sure i used to play this at my friends house when I was 10. This game clearly has time put into it. I would love to be able to play it co-op somehow. I think having an ally would increase play-ability a lot; especially if you plan to add in more difficult missions/maps in the future. Everyone loves a co-op! Often times, I have to stop and check my map to figure out where I am, and where I am going. It totally breaks concentration. This goes above with "what you need" having a moving minimap would be amazing. I think using a bunch of small UI elements would make your game far easier to pick up, and much more immersive.
Anyone who wants a review of gameplay, watch the video above; it shows a lot more than I can put into text.
4/5 stars, would play more.
Skype: [email protected] Current Project: Custom Hero Arena! US: battlenet:://starcraft/map/1/263274 EU: battlenet:://starcraft/map/2/186418
@GlornII: Go
I'm glad someone else enjoyed this map as well! I played this map for over 45 minutes and never got bored until I seemingly broke the map by destroying the bridge too early. It's definitely different but quite fun once you get the hang of it and you can tell that effort was put into it with the custom menus and gameplay. Just give it a chance.
Check out my YouTube channel for test playthroughs of custom campaigns as well as editor tutorial videos. Mapmakers, don’t hesitate to PM me if you would like me to test your campaign.
I watched DeltronLive's playthrough and I'd say the two biggest problems with this map are
1) It needs to allow access to the controls throughout the map and not just from the loading screen. If the player doesn't catch the controls or forgets some of the controls they need to have access to a controls page.
2) The game needs a hud of some sort. The player shouldn't be required to non-stop check the menu to see how close to death the banshee is, how much fuel they have left, or how much ammo they have. These values should be available to the player while they are playing.
This game is really unique. I hope it gets further development and gets polished up. It could become a really awesome game.
Another suggestion would be to have the game auto correct for aiming. What I mean is if the player's aim is a little off, it should still fire directly on top of an enemy unit which is sufficiently close. I think that change would properly compensate for the odd controls present in the map. This idea is used a bunch in FPSes on consoles for a similar reason.
Also having a reticle showing where the banshee is going to attack would help making attacking enemies much less frustrating. I believe DeltronLive suggested this in his video as well.
I suppose it does bear mentioning that none of that discussion necessarily applies to Banshee Strike; I haven't actually tried the map. It's more that we've had complaints of unplayability in the past and without me trying stuff ahead of time that does potentially form a problem. Sorry Coyc, didn't mean to hijack your thread!
Carry on!
So I read the first few comments, then watched the first ten minutes of deltrons playthrough and then tried it myself.
I am with glorn, in that this discussion started shamefully.
Loadscreen: It even has the "waiting to press key" option enabled in order for the player to read what is written (almost complete rundown of controls!). I can only rant about players at this point, because: hey there is a loadscreen and the creator gives us an opportunity to read it all ... maybe we need to know this stuff?! Same for bnet tutorials. I know that most players don't look at those, but I don't really ahve a lot of respect for those. Are they expecting to get a full tutorial on every startup of the game, possibly delaying other players experience with it (this is not only about banshee strike but in general)? Ok, done ranting...
Next thing is the watchcom: well, if you don't know what to do, you can press the two keys suggested at the start: W - Lift Off and tab - Watchcom. The watchcome has a map with two nice markers on it which you could (maybe?) check out? Shoot these two and you get dialogue on how to continue.
Maybe this is an example of game literacy, I dont know...
edit: [In regards to game literacy: To me the controls felt intuitive (except in A/D in watchcom). WASD are move controls in sooo many games. JKLIOP is not so common, but also a reasonable option for putting your other hand. They are nicely grouped, which makes it easy for me to remember what is what: JKL row: attacks from strongest to weakest. IOP row (I would have preferred UIO) is the 'others' grouping. Strafe might have had a nicer place on 'space' you can use either thumb while pressing multiple buttons and because it is a movement control.]
Now to the actual critizicm of the map:
- As people have pointed out before, there are controls which are unusable for some (numpad) and some which are hard to find (A/D in watchcom)
- I would prefer the strafe to be a toggle instead of a hold button. If it isn't have to grab something like: two move keys + hold 4 + 1/2/3 to shoot what I try to target
- a targetting reticle would be nice (could it change color if over an enemy? I am asking because of the battlecruisers for which it is not directly clear where to shoot), maybe also have it as a toggle. An alternative solution could be a lock on as in dark souls and then you switch through the targets with some keys (although I suspect this is not the preferred solution since it is in an arcade tradition)
- The controls are not that bad (then again, I am someone who played through dark souls on keyboard only, so who am I to judge usability of controls). Maybe reduce the effect on the controls a little. Also, something people might have missed: there is an automated turn towards items to pick up. Maybe increase the range on this a little.
- The Watchcom (tab) is a good design in that it is economic to make and still looks quite nice! But as others pointed out, I also would have preferred minimap/ammo/fuel to be on the mainscreen in some way (maybe arrange them as togglable on the edges of the screens as if they were displays in an actual attack helicopter).
- What would have been great is a log, which let you display all previous communications. In addition to above suggestion, you could put the other half of your UI (unit stats, item decriptions, etc.) together with the log into a briefings screen.
- I didn't end the map in victory, because I couldn't figure out where to bring the orange container, before running out of fuel+lives, which I presume is the last thing you need to do before winning. (log for communcation pls. Or another method of making (some) objectives easier to look up)
- since tutorials were brought up, after the initial check sequence you could have like a mini-mission, which makes the player check his systems before starting. This means like a prompt: check that fuel and ammo are loaded [hint to press tab for watchcom or the respective key to turn on ammo and fuel hud in my above suggestion]; check briefing link is working: prompt player to use A/D to toggle through targets and 1/2/3 to display info on it.
- The controls are easy to remember, but you are probably gonna have to give people a screen where the controls are listed Banshee Field Manual! let them feel they are being unprofessional pilots by being unprepared (meaning: do NOT make them feel unprofessional, it is gonna come and bite you, as satisfactory as it may feel at first).
In conclusion: Coyc, if you are reading this, I feel your pain in having to spoon feed players and make sure they never get unconfortable, sadly this is part of the audience and you kind of have to design for it (ok, now I am really done ranting). What would actually keep me interested at this point, would be more difficulty. I feel like I don't have to worry about being shot down (even without banshee cloak). I think what is there actually is nicely crafted for the most part!
Hello mates! Geez, so many info here to load at my hull! =)
Thanks for feedback, im very glad that you are interested in this map.
I made 1.3 version without reading this thread and seems like 1.4 need to be done!
Its too late atm, but in a couple of days I will work on your posts and leave detailed reply.
I'm sorry for my harsh review at the front of this thread but, i don't feel like you should call it shameful, as i mentioned in the start of the post it was my "rambled thoughts" and thus my gut feeling of stuff i felt as i was playing. (i was alt tabbing in out of the game to write in this thread, maybe a bad idea looking back at it)
@zuPloed
"Loadscreen: It even has the "waiting to press key" option enabled in order for the player to read what is written"
I don't actually recall what happened with my loading screen but i think i alt tabbed out of the game when the arcade countdown started and then back in when the loading had completed and maybe pressed a key, to only see a catch a glimpse of the loading screen.
I also skipped the intro cutscene from the start accidentally, didn't even know it existed before i watched deltron's review.
"Next thing is the watchcom: well, if you don't know what to do, you can press the two keys suggested at the start: W - Lift Off and tab - Watchcom. The watchcome has a map with two nice markers on it which you could (maybe?) check out? Shoot these two and you get dialogue on how to continue."
The watchcom UI was really unintuitive to me, and i found that you could cycle it really late after i was already frustrated with the fuel system and laggy WASD movement.
This map has potential but not at this state for me, looking forward to see what 1.4 brings to address this thread.
I watched some Urban Strike gameplay videos and if Coyc1 can bring that gameplay modernized this map can be really good.
Ok, I suppose the tabbing explains a lot. No hard feelings.
Cycling in the watchcom I probably wouldn't have found on my own either. I knew it due to Trievas review and deltrons video.
What I was meaning to say is, that despite this the watchcom is set to the first objectives by default, so you have two flags which stand out on the map... Ok I suppose these could also mean anything... I guess I can concede this point.
@Trieva: Go
Yeah, people are overreacting a little to the negative feedback. The map maker needs negative feedback to improve his map and his map definitely needs improvement.
It actually was people who didn't even know anything about the game who jumped to saying it was unplayable and such after reading other peoples reviews. No one who played it suggested that the game was entirely unplayable or that it was the worst game ever, but instead pointed out that the game gives little indication of how to play or where they should go outside of two things which were very easily missed by clicking past the loading screen (Never rely on the loading screen alone to teach people controls.) and pressing w which is pretty much the first key I'm going to press when I notice the mouse doesn't do anything.
Also the watchcom interface while compact is not really all that great. It's a lot of text which all looks the same. No different font, colors, or separation by dividers. Also having icons/graphics would probably help the watchcom UI be easier to take in. It's a really basic dialog which could be made to look much better. People really underestimate how much they can really do with dialogs.
Hello, thanks for feedback, I'll try to answer
Loading screen has info about keys used, but I dont like it, it will be changed as far as ingame help will be done
WASD is compromiss of some parameters and may be changed to be more controllable, but in loosing aesthetics of flight. Backward strafe is compromiss
too, because none of units can go backwards without turning. I really hate this thing.
Target crosshair is on in version 1.3 also zoom is tweaked an has target for easier picking up too.
Besides of sandbags and bridges, there are destroyable lightposts and buildings. No plans for trees, but urban items may be added to be destroyable.
Mouse should be completely turned off, please tell me what have you selected, when and how?
Grammar... English is not my native, and I will never know what i wrote wrong, please tell me.
Medivac is part of orginal Urban strike map, there is a transport chopper there. Though Banshee has only 4 places for human load, Medivac has 8 places.
Fuel mechanic is a part of game. It will make you think how to survive constantly.
@GlornII: Go
Hello, thanks for feedback. Ingame help will make alot, I will definetly make it. Seems a newbie player feels very uncomfortable. There will be some sort of hint and tutorial how to get objectives, shoot, move and pick up items.
A hud, other than Watchcom ruins remake concept, but may be used in further maps (its about minimap, HP/Fuel indicator). Stopping and checking situation is tactical side of game. You plan your move, where to fly, whom to kill, what to do, especially HOW to do. Wachcom enables pause of game.
Im going to make indication of hitting by flying up little text on Banshee and enemy (loosing HP). Cursor is done in ver1.3 and its turnable on/off by Num0 or M.
Co-Op will not be done in this map. But surely may be done in further maps. EG map will have different genre. Not "single player" as it is atm. With co-op you need onscreeen indicators like you are mentioned, and in that situation you are wright.
If this game reminded even just a little bit of original game to you - its mission is done. That was the point of doing all this! )