Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
Please tell me you did not revert the DarkArchon Mind Control from permanent back to only 45 seconds? I was playing a game with a friend and I was trying to figure out why my map had changed to Novice and my changes were not in effect so I ended up just kind of adding Charge-Lot /Dark Archon in the background. Ended up with stacked energy and on next engagement MC'd enough to win. Bound my new units to CGs then panned frame to work macro. Few seconds later "your warriors are under attack". Quick space tap. All DarkArchons dead. Hahaha.
The issues have something todo with your update. Fixed with re-upload. I think permanent MZc was the correct move though. DA is a big risk /investment and even massed if you pull it off energy comes way slower than the enemy re maxing. Although to make it more risky during the engagement MC should prob drain all shields + the 150e like in scbw if you did not already have it like that.
@Malzen333: Go I realized SC2 does not support permanent effects. Go through all the abilities in SC2 (melee), and you will see the durations are really short. I'm struggling to make some of the old SC2 abilities fit the SC2 balance and one of the things I have to do is nerf their durations. SC1 had permanent effects, SC2 doesn't. Let's keep it that way if possible.
Compare Mind Control to Neural Parasite and you can see the problem.
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
@nolanstar: Go I still have to take a look at the Valkyrie. I have to fix the weapon mechanics, and possibly change the unit to set it apart from the Viking. I guess it needs to be a little more expensive with more life/armor.
@Miles07: Go Hi, welcome to mapster. Thank you for taking the time to post in this thread. And about your post: Yes but that is campaign mechanics and we are talking about melee mechanics here. If we were to use campaign mechanics things would be totally different. All the additions in this mod are bound to balance way more than what you see in the campaign. At least that's my goal, so I do my best with all the feedback I receive.
Hey man, got around to using the updated Feederings and I've gotta say really cool stuff!
I went for a mid/late hydra /3 queen + Ovie creep highway push versus AI to try em out. I wasn't sure if the part of the update that causes the Feederings to fall from the host when they died until I killed one of my own unit because I didn't really see any fall from the hydralisk that died in my push. So I'm wondering if you have feederlings set too high on the list of priority targets and they just blew up after the enemy units targeting the host instantly targeted the feederling when & where it fell?
Also, I am a true Zerg at heart, but for the sake of balance I try to be unbiased and conservative. So I must admit +50 hp for any unit may just perhappps... Just maybeee be a tiny bit overpowered haha. (Particularly late game 3/3 cracklings with 85 hp). Yet +50 hp is completely suitable for other units. So I think I came up with an amicable solution if its possible and you can figure out how to do it in the editor.
Rather than a set health point increase perhaps you could change it into a + percentage of hp? +15% - +30% unit hp sounds about right. So +15% would end up being +5hp for zergling (if you think it's worth a potential +1 attack needed to kill the ling if you can afford and think its worth it I guess?) but then that's a +75hp for Ultralisk.
Unless you think it should be opposite and the lowered hp units should scale better than units already with a surplus hp? If so maybe instead then you could make it a higher percentage but put a hard cap on how much hp can be added. So like a +33% hp buff with a maximum of +50hp.
Just some thoughts.
@Malzen333: Go I'm glad you liked. I loved when I first tried the visuals! Too bad it doesn't seem to work for some units (Queen and Infestor are the ones I know of). Your suggestion for a percent life increase sounds better. +50 hp for lings may be too much, even though it comes with such a high cost. I'll think about that but 15% sounds best to me.
I know you have alot on your plate and I keep bothering you (I will make another list composed over time and better organized than last time with some ideas & findings) but with Baelrog I just cant figure out a way to use Egg Pop from queens in a beneficial way. Then I remembered an idea I may have proposed earlier that regarded Creep Tumors and somehow incorporating spawned broodlings in some way. Well i think this would be a great opportunity to fix /refine Egg Pop.
Instead of Egg Pop on eggs what if instead the ability was used on Creep Tumors and was Tumor Pop (Bio directly from queen so theoretically could pocess some type of dormant "eggs", I could find no lore to disprove the hypothesis)
Stick with me now, here is how it could be completely balanced yet still a logical asset.
Change the Pop ability to cost 50e and spawn 2 Broodlings for 8 seconds, or 75e spawning 3 Broodlings for 8 seconds.
1st you have to preemptively lay the tumor costing 25 energy.
2nd dependant on your creep spread you may be sacrificing creep turf & it would be necessary to place another creep tumor costing another 25e.
Even if you stock up creep tumors over a long game, each queen will only be able to pop 2-4 Creep Tumors with full energy, spawning only a few broodlings lasting only moments that have the potential to be wasted or avoided all together. I see it as an ability you would have to use correctly and has an opportunity cost /risk. Importantly a choice: "Do I need quick damage to defend this? Or will I benefit more from Transfuse?".
Ive never seen energy or spawn based units as "free units" as forum goers always use to describe their discrepencies. But energy takes time, like minerals and vespene; so I view it as another resource you have to spend wisely and take the time to acquire (+min/ves cost of caster to begin with).
Honestly this is something similar to what I thought should have been in Vanilla Sc2 Ladder. Based on Terran having Planetary Fortress and Protoss now having Photon Over-Charge + Recall versus Zerg who get queens for default base defense; how much more dynamic and interesting would this make observing pro games. If instead of watching an entire long army sprint all the way across the map, many times too late, to contest Terran MMM snipe squads or 4x Charge-Lot Prism warp ins; Tumors preemtively set for drops popped! (Not killing or even coming close to killing off the entire drop, but perhaps buying zerg the time to properly react).
Holy Sh1t! Back to fixing bugs that weren't there before the patch.... Damn Blizzard.
@Malzen333: Go Sounds like a better option than the current system. I'll add it to the list of suggestions, but I fear I'm going to spend some time fixing new bugs.
Ah that's a bummer to hear. If there's a good list of known bugs you don't think you'll be able to address or rectify ASAP you could throw together a list of known issues to give us so the community can help you out with reporting to you overlooked complications.
@Malzen333: Go The thing is I'm not sure which bugs will stay in the list. Some bug will be gone because they are related to HoTS units or abilities. Others may disappear as well after the Zerg Brood overhaul, and so on. My priority is to fix things that break the game right now, such as the Raven selection bug, but you guys can report everything you find.
Ohh and the Marine Range upgrade seems to be working.
Just want to pop in quickly and say thanks as always for a)making this mod and b) staying on top of it as well as you do. While playing HotS every time something cool shows up my immediate thought is just "oh man! Can't wait to see if this gets worked into SC Expanded!"
So have you done any updates that involve hots yet? Do you plan on having versions for both WoL and HoTS or you just updating to hots?
And you actually are planning a brood overhaul like we discussed sometime in the future eh? That's cool news, looking forward to the progression of it all.
@RezE11even: GoIt will include HoTS campaign's units and abilities/upgrades, as long as they're not OP. It will even include things you didn't see or use in the campaign.
@Malzen333: Go No, I haven't, because I don't have HoTS yet. I'm feeling like the only kid in the block without this new amazing toy. I don't plan to keep a WoL version as it would give me twice the bugs to fix and this mod already takes too much of my SC2 time. I also think its pointless, the WoL version clearly feels incomplete for Protoss and Zerg.
I thought I could keep a single map avaiable for WoL so players would get to know it, but I cant do it. I'd have to dedicate 5 files of my 20-file limit on Bnet just to make it happen.
Don't worry, I pre-ordered collectors edition, I don't even have access to playing yet ;_;
I have looked over the various evolutions...
The "Creeper" Swarmhost seems a bit OP, with the ability to teleport across the map. Maybe a range limit would balance it out?
The Torrasque breed ultra seems balanceable.
The Lurker/Impaler make interesting choices
etc...
how is the Creeper op? needs creep to "teleport" to an area. can only see this as an issue if it pops in on an enemy base(zerg)or "blinks" away when being attacked. In this case a "warm up" would help and teleport only on allie creep[if editor even allows this]. does it itself generate creep? interesting beacuse it increases locust speed, never noticed in the campain.
I like the idea of Feederings falling off when the host dies. zerg attacks and they all die, then feederling all die next and if zerg attacks and win, whatever feederling are still alive are used for the next batch. buff should be constant, i mean +50 health at the cost of 25mineral and 25gas with 0.5 supply seems fair. a % where +5 heallth for a zergling is silly, although for ultras for higher health i would like; it should be % + a set health. I like equation below beacuse zergling gets nice a buff and ultra gets +100 health; 2.5 bonus for zergling and 50 bonus for ultralisk (this is the diference with the % ignoring the +50)
1.1(unit health)+50
@SoulFilcher: Go
hots has sc1 queen, gardian, devourer, and defiler, but only in the editor and they seem incomplete; no sound or wireframe. devourer attack ball should be coloured purple and noticed they (devourer and gardian) look left, attack, look left, and attack again in that order. I konw effects are ont peremant, but Parasite for the overlord as an option should last a longtime, like 5 to 7min or more rather than 1 min, beacuse right now the spy is a better choice and takes less effort.
@DEFILERRULEZ: Go Husky is crazy, he would get lost because he doesn't read tooltips ;-)
@SoulFilcher: Go
too true :)
what do you think about workers getting attack upgrades?
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/nolanstars-textures/
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
Please tell me you did not revert the DarkArchon Mind Control from permanent back to only 45 seconds? I was playing a game with a friend and I was trying to figure out why my map had changed to Novice and my changes were not in effect so I ended up just kind of adding Charge-Lot /Dark Archon in the background. Ended up with stacked energy and on next engagement MC'd enough to win. Bound my new units to CGs then panned frame to work macro. Few seconds later "your warriors are under attack". Quick space tap. All DarkArchons dead. Hahaha.
The issues have something todo with your update. Fixed with re-upload. I think permanent MZc was the correct move though. DA is a big risk /investment and even massed if you pull it off energy comes way slower than the enemy re maxing. Although to make it more risky during the engagement MC should prob drain all shields + the 150e like in scbw if you did not already have it like that.
@nolanstar: Go is that really necessary?
@Malzen333: Go I realized SC2 does not support permanent effects. Go through all the abilities in SC2 (melee), and you will see the durations are really short. I'm struggling to make some of the old SC2 abilities fit the SC2 balance and one of the things I have to do is nerf their durations. SC1 had permanent effects, SC2 doesn't. Let's keep it that way if possible.
Compare Mind Control to Neural Parasite and you can see the problem.
not really, just something to make the post
sorry xD
but the valkarie is a bit too fragile, maybe a +1 armor upgrade at techlab?
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/nolanstars-textures/
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
@SoulFilcher: Go
Concerning permanent effects: Doesn't the Hive Mind Emulator (Campaign building) convert a non-worker foe permanently?
@nolanstar: Go I still have to take a look at the Valkyrie. I have to fix the weapon mechanics, and possibly change the unit to set it apart from the Viking. I guess it needs to be a little more expensive with more life/armor.
@Miles07: Go Hi, welcome to mapster. Thank you for taking the time to post in this thread. And about your post: Yes but that is campaign mechanics and we are talking about melee mechanics here. If we were to use campaign mechanics things would be totally different. All the additions in this mod are bound to balance way more than what you see in the campaign. At least that's my goal, so I do my best with all the feedback I receive.
Hey man, got around to using the updated Feederings and I've gotta say really cool stuff! I went for a mid/late hydra /3 queen + Ovie creep highway push versus AI to try em out. I wasn't sure if the part of the update that causes the Feederings to fall from the host when they died until I killed one of my own unit because I didn't really see any fall from the hydralisk that died in my push. So I'm wondering if you have feederlings set too high on the list of priority targets and they just blew up after the enemy units targeting the host instantly targeted the feederling when & where it fell? Also, I am a true Zerg at heart, but for the sake of balance I try to be unbiased and conservative. So I must admit +50 hp for any unit may just perhappps... Just maybeee be a tiny bit overpowered haha. (Particularly late game 3/3 cracklings with 85 hp). Yet +50 hp is completely suitable for other units. So I think I came up with an amicable solution if its possible and you can figure out how to do it in the editor.
Rather than a set health point increase perhaps you could change it into a + percentage of hp? +15% - +30% unit hp sounds about right. So +15% would end up being +5hp for zergling (if you think it's worth a potential +1 attack needed to kill the ling if you can afford and think its worth it I guess?) but then that's a +75hp for Ultralisk.
Unless you think it should be opposite and the lowered hp units should scale better than units already with a surplus hp? If so maybe instead then you could make it a higher percentage but put a hard cap on how much hp can be added. So like a +33% hp buff with a maximum of +50hp. Just some thoughts.
@Malzen333: Go I'm glad you liked. I loved when I first tried the visuals! Too bad it doesn't seem to work for some units (Queen and Infestor are the ones I know of). Your suggestion for a percent life increase sounds better. +50 hp for lings may be too much, even though it comes with such a high cost. I'll think about that but 15% sounds best to me.
Noticed a quick new bug, You can't select Ravens as an option anymore(you can click but it never registers, so you can only pick science vessles).
And Predators don't life regenerate like all the other infested units.
Merc units still need upgrades to effect them. Life regen works for reapers but things like +1 range for marines and any weapon/armor upgrades don't.
I know you have alot on your plate and I keep bothering you (I will make another list composed over time and better organized than last time with some ideas & findings) but with Baelrog I just cant figure out a way to use Egg Pop from queens in a beneficial way. Then I remembered an idea I may have proposed earlier that regarded Creep Tumors and somehow incorporating spawned broodlings in some way. Well i think this would be a great opportunity to fix /refine Egg Pop.
Instead of Egg Pop on eggs what if instead the ability was used on Creep Tumors and was Tumor Pop (Bio directly from queen so theoretically could pocess some type of dormant "eggs", I could find no lore to disprove the hypothesis)
Stick with me now, here is how it could be completely balanced yet still a logical asset. Change the Pop ability to cost 50e and spawn 2 Broodlings for 8 seconds, or 75e spawning 3 Broodlings for 8 seconds. 1st you have to preemptively lay the tumor costing 25 energy. 2nd dependant on your creep spread you may be sacrificing creep turf & it would be necessary to place another creep tumor costing another 25e. Even if you stock up creep tumors over a long game, each queen will only be able to pop 2-4 Creep Tumors with full energy, spawning only a few broodlings lasting only moments that have the potential to be wasted or avoided all together. I see it as an ability you would have to use correctly and has an opportunity cost /risk. Importantly a choice: "Do I need quick damage to defend this? Or will I benefit more from Transfuse?". Ive never seen energy or spawn based units as "free units" as forum goers always use to describe their discrepencies. But energy takes time, like minerals and vespene; so I view it as another resource you have to spend wisely and take the time to acquire (+min/ves cost of caster to begin with).
Honestly this is something similar to what I thought should have been in Vanilla Sc2 Ladder. Based on Terran having Planetary Fortress and Protoss now having Photon Over-Charge + Recall versus Zerg who get queens for default base defense; how much more dynamic and interesting would this make observing pro games. If instead of watching an entire long army sprint all the way across the map, many times too late, to contest Terran MMM snipe squads or 4x Charge-Lot Prism warp ins; Tumors preemtively set for drops popped! (Not killing or even coming close to killing off the entire drop, but perhaps buying zerg the time to properly react).
Thoughts?
@RezE11even: Go WHAT THE H-
Holy Sh1t! Back to fixing bugs that weren't there before the patch.... Damn Blizzard.
@Malzen333: Go Sounds like a better option than the current system. I'll add it to the list of suggestions, but I fear I'm going to spend some time fixing new bugs.
Ah that's a bummer to hear. If there's a good list of known bugs you don't think you'll be able to address or rectify ASAP you could throw together a list of known issues to give us so the community can help you out with reporting to you overlooked complications.
@Malzen333: Go The thing is I'm not sure which bugs will stay in the list. Some bug will be gone because they are related to HoTS units or abilities. Others may disappear as well after the Zerg Brood overhaul, and so on. My priority is to fix things that break the game right now, such as the Raven selection bug, but you guys can report everything you find.
Ohh and the Marine Range upgrade seems to be working.
Just want to pop in quickly and say thanks as always for a)making this mod and b) staying on top of it as well as you do. While playing HotS every time something cool shows up my immediate thought is just "oh man! Can't wait to see if this gets worked into SC Expanded!"
So have you done any updates that involve hots yet? Do you plan on having versions for both WoL and HoTS or you just updating to hots?
And you actually are planning a brood overhaul like we discussed sometime in the future eh? That's cool news, looking forward to the progression of it all.
@RezE11even: GoIt will include HoTS campaign's units and abilities/upgrades, as long as they're not OP. It will even include things you didn't see or use in the campaign.
@Malzen333: Go No, I haven't, because I don't have HoTS yet. I'm feeling like the only kid in the block without this new amazing toy. I don't plan to keep a WoL version as it would give me twice the bugs to fix and this mod already takes too much of my SC2 time. I also think its pointless, the WoL version clearly feels incomplete for Protoss and Zerg.
I thought I could keep a single map avaiable for WoL so players would get to know it, but I cant do it. I'd have to dedicate 5 files of my 20-file limit on Bnet just to make it happen.
@SoulFilcher: Go
Don't worry, I pre-ordered collectors edition, I don't even have access to playing yet ;_; I have looked over the various evolutions... The "Creeper" Swarmhost seems a bit OP, with the ability to teleport across the map. Maybe a range limit would balance it out? The Torrasque breed ultra seems balanceable. The Lurker/Impaler make interesting choices etc...
@rickmary: Go
how is the Creeper op? needs creep to "teleport" to an area. can only see this as an issue if it pops in on an enemy base(zerg)or "blinks" away when being attacked. In this case a "warm up" would help and teleport only on allie creep[if editor even allows this]. does it itself generate creep? interesting beacuse it increases locust speed, never noticed in the campain.
@Malzen333: Go
I like the idea of Feederings falling off when the host dies. zerg attacks and they all die, then feederling all die next and if zerg attacks and win, whatever feederling are still alive are used for the next batch. buff should be constant, i mean +50 health at the cost of 25mineral and 25gas with 0.5 supply seems fair. a % where +5 heallth for a zergling is silly, although for ultras for higher health i would like; it should be % + a set health. I like equation below beacuse zergling gets nice a buff and ultra gets +100 health; 2.5 bonus for zergling and 50 bonus for ultralisk (this is the diference with the % ignoring the +50)
@SoulFilcher: Go hots has sc1 queen, gardian, devourer, and defiler, but only in the editor and they seem incomplete; no sound or wireframe. devourer attack ball should be coloured purple and noticed they (devourer and gardian) look left, attack, look left, and attack again in that order. I konw effects are ont peremant, but Parasite for the overlord as an option should last a longtime, like 5 to 7min or more rather than 1 min, beacuse right now the spy is a better choice and takes less effort.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go
Didnt know the creeper required creep. (still doesnt have HoTS, waiting for the shipment)