@SiarX: Go Hybrids always appear supported by one or more of the other races, they are usually all very powerful, which in a multiplayer mod means expensive and high tier units. They also have one or more activated abilities, sometimes several abilities, its kind of hard to place them together because those characteristics are not good for multiplayer mechanics. And there are 4 types, or 6 if you count the new variations for the original 2. Anyway, let's keep the discussion going to see what the options are. In my opinion the purple "zerg" hybrid and nemesis should go to Amon's brood, dominator/mastermind/maar should go to Tal'darim. Thrasher is a complicated one, I don't even know I'll be able to use it properly.
@Kanitala: Go Right now I'm inclined to give nerazim the green one and tal'darim the red one to make things simple. I kind of like your purple archon idea but still it won't fit the whole theme, I'm sure players like beating their enemies in all Sith-colored units ;-)
@nolanstar: Go Yes, definitely, I hate that its just a standard HT. But to be honest I hate the unit.
@Zarxiel93: Go I'm counting it as a hybrid (and not counting Maar) because in the end its a unit not from the 3 standard races, and if used needs to go to a tribe or brood associated with Amon.
Destroyer and Reaver are such bad names for them since we already have the Reaver and now Destroyer as the Tal'darim Void Ray. I'm curious about the portuguese version because normal Void Rays are called Destruidoras, which is portuguese for Destroyers.
What is your opinion Zarxiel? How should I use them in SC Expanded?
A simple thought/solution? here. Perhaps give the dark archon over to the dark templar, then use the hybrid behemoth as a replacement for the tal'darim archon, since they supposedly "ascend" into hybrid anyway.
I understand this has some drawbacks, but I think the advantages are there and it's a decent compromise. It also means you have less hybrid you'd need to balance.
Edit: For hybrid names, I think since they're separate from the normal races, they should be the ones to get the name changes. The way that I would do that, personally, is to just replace their names with synonyms that sound like good units that aren't currently in use.
@SoulFilcher: Go
P.S. I will talk to you in english, in this way all can read it.
I'm not sure... maybe you can make this:
Amon's Brood/Claw's Brood = Reaver
Tal'Darim = Destroyer
Moebius = Nemesis
Note: The Reaver can evolve in Behemoth, the Destroyer in Dominator and the Nemesis can recall an attack of the Void Threasher (for some seconds)
What do you think? :)
I would say Reaver, destroyer for all, void thrasher and nemesis for a zerg brood, void dominator and behemoth for a hybrid-based toss faction as I suggested, and Hots Dominators for taldarim, skygeir reaver for moebius.
Also I say there are 8
- Reaver
- Destroyer
- Skygeiir (Upgraded reaver, hots missions)
- Dominator (Hots version, no shields, separation)
- Void Dominator (LotV Version)
- Behemoth
- Nemessis
- Void Thrasher
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
The Void Dominator and the HotS Dominator is the same, the Blizzard only was lazzy to do new model and portrait. Same for the Reaver, the Reaver of WoL don't have the air attack because in the secret mission you don't have air units and in the apocalypse vision because there is a lot of anti-air unit, in HotS don't so is for balance.
@yukaboy: Go That idea crossed my mind too, but there's a catch, would it come directly from Gateways and Warp Gates? From a unit?
Your suggestion for the names is probably the way I'll deal with it, but only after I decide where they go.
@Zarxiel93: Go Currently the Reaver and Destroyer are where you suggested. My idea was to place Nemesis together with Reaver. Destroyer and Dominator look very alike so one could be an upgrade to the other, not necessarily a morph, maybe just a model change that comes with an upgrade. I'm not sure about upgrading Reaver to Behemoth though. The Void Thrasher looks to me like a unique unit, much like the Mothership, or maybe as you suggested a type of Hyperion calldown.
@nolanstar: Go What do you mean by "for all"? Brood, tribe and Moebius? I do not consider the ones with the same model as separate units, and having Destroyer / Dominator as an upgrade seems like a good option to me.
Has anyone tested the tribes? I'd like to receive some feedback.
EDIT: On something unrelated, I was thinking about making Quillgore the supply unit for Primal Zerg, but that would be a drastic change that needs to be very well planned.
@SiarX: Go Hybrids always appear supported by one or more of the other races, they are usually all very powerful, which in a multiplayer mod means expensive and high tier units. They also have one or more activated abilities, sometimes several abilities, its kind of hard to place them together because those characteristics are not good for multiplayer mechanics. And there are 4 types, or 6 if you count the new variations for the original 2. Anyway, let's keep the discussion going to see what the options are. In my opinion the purple "zerg" hybrid and nemesis should go to Amon's brood, dominator/mastermind/maar should go to Tal'darim. Thrasher is a complicated one, I don't even know I'll be able to use it properly.
@Kanitala: Go Right now I'm inclined to give nerazim the green one and tal'darim the red one to make things simple. I kind of like your purple archon idea but still it won't fit the whole theme, I'm sure players like beating their enemies in all Sith-colored units ;-)
@nolanstar: Go Yes, definitely, I hate that its just a standard HT. But to be honest I hate the unit.
I know, they are tanky (very high hp but relatively low dps) for other units. Of course I didnt mean for faction to consist only of hybrids, it would probably be addition to standart zerg (who have massed cheap dpsers to support; would probably lose ultralisks in exchange). But reasons for all hybrids to be united were listed above. And whats so wriong with different abilitie, in total its less than, lets say, normal protoss have
and this is quite obvius, but, what about use the LotV DA model for the Shadow Archon and the GN or Cacho model for Dark Archon? That spikes of the LotV model don't fit very well with the Nerazim for me :S
@Zarxiel93: I will not use another red archon, if the mod will keep 3 archon units, they will have distinct colors so they can be easily recognized by players (at least for those that are not color blind). And I'm trying to keep the amount of imported models to a minimum, because I know I may have to import several fixes for things I do want to use in the mod.
Shadow Archon? Why not call them Void Archons? Make them green, too.
Although I do have an issue with the fact Tal'darim would have different Archons. Why not just give them Dark Archons? Both the Tal'darim and Dark Templar use Void energies and have no Khala, so it would make sense for both of them to use Dark Archons.
I'd just give Twilight Archons to one of the factions, as well. So that makes 3 archons ; Archon (normal, tanky), Dark Archon (subterfuge and mind control), Twilight Archon (teleportation, black hole).
I think there is no faction that use both HT and DT, so no Twilight Archon. In a LotV artwork we can see the Shadow Archon with blades, so why not give to him the blades?
I think there is no faction that use both HT and DT, so no Twilight Archon. In a LotV artwork we can see the Shadow Archon with blades, so why not give to him the blades?
LotV artwork? Which one? Care to post it here or link to it? :D
I think you should give taldarim the monolith, and replace pylon with void pylon for nerazim as well as give them Khaydarin Monoliths, as well as make shield batteries available for all factions. Give Templar Obelisks to compensate.
Reasons:
- We actually only see taldarim using monoliths (Maw of the void, Hots hybrid facility)
- Khala gets their special structure (Obelisk)
- Void pylons look cool, give them a cloaking upgrade at DT Shrine tech
- DT gets their lore-defence structure (Could possibly replace cannon)
- All factions use and have a model of shield batteries (Khala, nerazim and taldarim, purifiers could lose them possibly?)
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
@nolanstar: Go By Monolith you mean that thing that looks like a pylon with big green crystal? I has been a Nerazim structure in the mod but I agree the void pylon looks better. I still have to think about these structures but I don't want to unlock shield battery for several tribes like that, it kind of defeats the purpose. Also other tribes may get shield recovery from other sources, like that Sentry ability.
I couldn't possibly replace cannons with Khaydarin Monoliths, but they may be an additional structure.
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@SiarX: Go Hybrids always appear supported by one or more of the other races, they are usually all very powerful, which in a multiplayer mod means expensive and high tier units. They also have one or more activated abilities, sometimes several abilities, its kind of hard to place them together because those characteristics are not good for multiplayer mechanics. And there are 4 types, or 6 if you count the new variations for the original 2. Anyway, let's keep the discussion going to see what the options are. In my opinion the purple "zerg" hybrid and nemesis should go to Amon's brood, dominator/mastermind/maar should go to Tal'darim. Thrasher is a complicated one, I don't even know I'll be able to use it properly.
@Kanitala: Go Right now I'm inclined to give nerazim the green one and tal'darim the red one to make things simple. I kind of like your purple archon idea but still it won't fit the whole theme, I'm sure players like beating their enemies in all Sith-colored units ;-)
@nolanstar: Go Yes, definitely, I hate that its just a standard HT. But to be honest I hate the unit.
6 Hybrids? The Hybrids are 5:
the Void Trasher is not a Hybrid and Maar is more like a Destroyer hero.
@Zarxiel93: Go I'm counting it as a hybrid (and not counting Maar) because in the end its a unit not from the 3 standard races, and if used needs to go to a tribe or brood associated with Amon.
Destroyer and Reaver are such bad names for them since we already have the Reaver and now Destroyer as the Tal'darim Void Ray. I'm curious about the portuguese version because normal Void Rays are called Destruidoras, which is portuguese for Destroyers.
What is your opinion Zarxiel? How should I use them in SC Expanded?
A simple thought/solution? here. Perhaps give the dark archon over to the dark templar, then use the hybrid behemoth as a replacement for the tal'darim archon, since they supposedly "ascend" into hybrid anyway.
I understand this has some drawbacks, but I think the advantages are there and it's a decent compromise. It also means you have less hybrid you'd need to balance.
Edit: For hybrid names, I think since they're separate from the normal races, they should be the ones to get the name changes. The way that I would do that, personally, is to just replace their names with synonyms that sound like good units that aren't currently in use.
@SoulFilcher: Go P.S. I will talk to you in english, in this way all can read it.
I'm not sure... maybe you can make this:
Note: The Reaver can evolve in Behemoth, the Destroyer in Dominator and the Nemesis can recall an attack of the Void Threasher (for some seconds) What do you think? :)
I would say Reaver, destroyer for all, void thrasher and nemesis for a zerg brood, void dominator and behemoth for a hybrid-based toss faction as I suggested, and Hots Dominators for taldarim, skygeir reaver for moebius.
Also I say there are 8 - Reaver - Destroyer - Skygeiir (Upgraded reaver, hots missions) - Dominator (Hots version, no shields, separation) - Void Dominator (LotV Version) - Behemoth - Nemessis - Void Thrasher
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/nolanstars-textures/
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
The Void Dominator and the HotS Dominator is the same, the Blizzard only was lazzy to do new model and portrait. Same for the Reaver, the Reaver of WoL don't have the air attack because in the secret mission you don't have air units and in the apocalypse vision because there is a lot of anti-air unit, in HotS don't so is for balance.
@yukaboy: Go That idea crossed my mind too, but there's a catch, would it come directly from Gateways and Warp Gates? From a unit?
Your suggestion for the names is probably the way I'll deal with it, but only after I decide where they go.
@Zarxiel93: Go Currently the Reaver and Destroyer are where you suggested. My idea was to place Nemesis together with Reaver. Destroyer and Dominator look very alike so one could be an upgrade to the other, not necessarily a morph, maybe just a model change that comes with an upgrade. I'm not sure about upgrading Reaver to Behemoth though. The Void Thrasher looks to me like a unique unit, much like the Mothership, or maybe as you suggested a type of Hyperion calldown.
@nolanstar: Go What do you mean by "for all"? Brood, tribe and Moebius? I do not consider the ones with the same model as separate units, and having Destroyer / Dominator as an upgrade seems like a good option to me.
Has anyone tested the tribes? I'd like to receive some feedback.
EDIT: On something unrelated, I was thinking about making Quillgore the supply unit for Primal Zerg, but that would be a drastic change that needs to be very well planned.
I know, they are tanky (very high hp but relatively low dps) for other units. Of course I didnt mean for faction to consist only of hybrids, it would probably be addition to standart zerg (who have massed cheap dpsers to support; would probably lose ultralisks in exchange). But reasons for all hybrids to be united were listed above. And whats so wriong with different abilitie, in total its less than, lets say, normal protoss have
True, Void tharsher is not hybrid but fits their faction very well imho. Looks like would make good tower. Maar would work as hero unit
I also like idea of evolution intio enhanced types very much
Maybe I have an idea for you Archons:
and this is quite obvius, but, what about use the LotV DA model for the Shadow Archon and the GN or Cacho model for Dark Archon? That spikes of the LotV model don't fit very well with the Nerazim for me :S
@Zarxiel93: I will not use another red archon, if the mod will keep 3 archon units, they will have distinct colors so they can be easily recognized by players (at least for those that are not color blind). And I'm trying to keep the amount of imported models to a minimum, because I know I may have to import several fixes for things I do want to use in the mod.
Understand, well, I wanted give to you a suggestion, and I hoped that can be usefull for you :)
What about make Shadow Archon black?
@Zarxiel93: Black does sound more fitting to Tal'darim than green, in case red goes to Nerazim. I'll think about that.
Shadow Archon? Why not call them Void Archons? Make them green, too.
Although I do have an issue with the fact Tal'darim would have different Archons. Why not just give them Dark Archons? Both the Tal'darim and Dark Templar use Void energies and have no Khala, so it would make sense for both of them to use Dark Archons.
I'd just give Twilight Archons to one of the factions, as well. So that makes 3 archons ; Archon (normal, tanky), Dark Archon (subterfuge and mind control), Twilight Archon (teleportation, black hole).
I think there is no faction that use both HT and DT, so no Twilight Archon. In a LotV artwork we can see the Shadow Archon with blades, so why not give to him the blades?
LotV artwork? Which one? Care to post it here or link to it? :D
@AlexO6: Go
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starcraft/images/8/81/DarkArchon_SC2-LotV_Cncpt1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20151013101725
I think you should give taldarim the monolith, and replace pylon with void pylon for nerazim as well as give them Khaydarin Monoliths, as well as make shield batteries available for all factions. Give Templar Obelisks to compensate.
Reasons:
- We actually only see taldarim using monoliths (Maw of the void, Hots hybrid facility)
- Khala gets their special structure (Obelisk)
- Void pylons look cool, give them a cloaking upgrade at DT Shrine tech
- DT gets their lore-defence structure (Could possibly replace cannon)
- All factions use and have a model of shield batteries (Khala, nerazim and taldarim, purifiers could lose them possibly?)
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/nolanstars-textures/
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
@nolanstar: Go By Monolith you mean that thing that looks like a pylon with big green crystal? I has been a Nerazim structure in the mod but I agree the void pylon looks better. I still have to think about these structures but I don't want to unlock shield battery for several tribes like that, it kind of defeats the purpose. Also other tribes may get shield recovery from other sources, like that Sentry ability.
I couldn't possibly replace cannons with Khaydarin Monoliths, but they may be an additional structure.