In the next patch that's coming Soon™, can guardian's range be increased from 9 to 12 (or 15)? for range perspective thor aa is 10, tank is 13, and tempest is 15. right now mass mutalisk seems more effective with cost, both air and ground attack with a bit of splash. having the extra range like tempest or tank would encourage the transition to guardian, and be just like tempest but can't attack air.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go I know the Guardian is still lacking, specially if compared to the Broodlord it replaces. Out of the air roles Zerg may be missing, maybe the long range engagement is the best for the Guardian.
Zerg air additions are still not very defined. We have Leviathan, Swarm Guardians and Guardians still fighting for this heavy air role, even though they have several differences I still feel they overlap in a way I don't want them to. Adding range to the Guardian means I will make the Swarm Guardian a short range unit, and it would be basically a Zerg Battlecruiser.
Well, I have much to think when I get back to working on the mod. It is good to have you guys giving suggestions as some things may be already decided.
Hey guys, I'm just waiting for 2.1 patch to go live in all servers so I can publish the mod as an extension mod. It will also come with a few tweaks.
EDIT: Extension mod published, have fun. Here is the list of changes.
Armory: Ship and vehicle weapon upgrades combined.
Guardian: Weapon range increased to 12.
Mothership: Vortex removed, Time Warp added.
Jormungand brood: Renamed to Ryloth Brood.
Purifier: Vortex removed, Time Warp added.
Sunken Colony: Weapon cooldown reduced to 3.6.
Zerg Hybrid: Weapon range increased to 1.
Soul, I think that Swarm Guardians could function as a possible AvA Guardian? A reworked Guardian concept that simply fires at air rather than land. This would cause the faction choice to make air vulnerable to land while optimal vs aircraft. It would need testing, and I feel that it may overlap with the corruptor hower.
Another idea would be to have it evolve from Muta rather than Corruptor, and be a kind of fragile unit that hits hard vs land armored.
for the swarm guardian i was thinking guardian+brrood lord, ie rapid fire 10 damage spores for air and swarm seeds, with slow fireing spores for ground
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
@rickmary: Go We already have Corruptors, Devourers and Scourge. I don't want to add another dedicated anti-air unit. I thin the capital ship role is the best for the unit, but I haven't decided what could make it unique to play. Now that the original Guardian has taken the long range role these units will overlap less.
@nolanstar: Go No more free spawning units for Zerg, I think there's absolutely no need for that. I think I'm going with the attack they use in the Lost Vikings game. But I want the unit to have an unique ability, or additional effect in the attack itself.
EDIT: It seems that patch 2.1 brought additional bugs (as always), keep an eye open for them so they can be fixed quickly.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go Damn. The worst kind of bug. It seems they come from the mod being applied on top of multiplayer data in Custom Games. If I fix those to work in an Extension Mod they will most likely be broken for arcade maps.
Thumbs up Blizzard for f$%#ing this mod in the ass one more time.
I don't think that the Arcade maps are important anymore, I feel it's better to abandon them and stick with just extension mods, that way its one update for everyone, no more updating maps.
Wow, how many cool ideas and units! I like it a lot and will definitely give a time to this mod. A couple of questions:
- is AI able to use factions selection feature?
-Are high level factions units (such as laser tanks, hybrids, purifiers) mass buildable or unique?
-Do you have Gorgonas and Hybrid Dominator in it? If no, then why?
@rickmary: Go Yes, that is true, but I will be unable to maintain a unit tester map.
@SiarX: Go Hi, thank you for taking the time to post here, I hope you can give feeback about and share ideas as well. To answer your questions:
AI was able to pick a faction and select units, but didn't make faction exclusive units or upgrades, in the Arcade maps. I still haven't added that feature to the extension mod but I will.
Most units can be massed, some are unique, like the Leviathan. The mod doesn't have Gorgons yet, but it does have the 2 types of hybrids, one for zerg and the other for protoss. Gorgons aren't in the mod yet because I still need to define their role and faction, and if they will be unique or normal.
I. Gorgons (smaller and quicker than in campaign) might replace BCs for some factions (Dominion?). They would be flying siege unit having good air-to-ground attack (small radius though), powerful bombs with huge bonus damage to buildings but being helpless against airborn enemies (although their ability allows to redirect cannons to air for a short period of time)
II. Since zerg have problems with AA, they might get scourge nests as compensation ;-) long-ranged AA, especially good at countering Gorgons according to lore ;-) Or maybe they could be invisible before first attack? Besides, self-guided scourges look really cool)
III. Hybrids. What do you think of idea of making them one faction? After all it makes more sense (true, destroyers look more protoss-like but they still have zergish features), why would they fight each other instead of obeying Dark Voice… Preferably zerg faction; they fit better role of covering weaknesses of powerful but innumerous hybrids with cheap massable cannon fodder and hybrids definitely prefer to use zergs, not some toss fanatics according to “bad end“. So you might unite all three of them (admittedly, dominator is just a bigger destroyer but he has really cool combination of spells). Oh, and resurrectable Maar would be a great hero B)
IV. Kerrigan. I have an idea how to implement hero Queen of Blades which we all love and fear without nerfing her to ground or making total imba. She might keep most of her abilities (except ones which obviously break game design – automated extractors, twin drones) and stats. It doesn’t actually make her invincible since she is still vulnerable to focus fire (even AI manages to kill her sometimes). Howerver after her death all friendly zergs on the map become oppressed become panic-stricken and start to attack each other instead of enemies for some period of time (or maybe another sort of negative bonus, I am not sure yet).
where's the patch? the mod is broken as is; mech can get 6 def from double upgrades and instant campaign units at 5 second build speed (notable are tanks). mod > arcade
@FreezingAcidRain: Go I'm working on it. It seems its even harder now to test things offline to make sure the changes worked. I don't want to upload a "stupid" patch that may break more things instead of fixing the current bugs.
@SiarX: Go I can't replace BCs with a unit that is even more helpless vs air units. Right now I'm more inclined to make them a unique unit, but its still open to discussion.
The problem with the Scourge Nest is that the model lacks proper animations. One example: it dies after shooting, so I can't add it to the game as it is.
I don't think both Hybrids should go in the same faction, they are both late tier units with a lot of firepower, so they are better kept apart. They do work with corrupt protoss forces, the Zhakul guardians under Maar command, so I think they are fine where they are. It does not mean they aren't serving the Dark Voice, as all Dominion Squadrons are still serving Mengsk.
Yes, I want to add a Kerrigan Brood, it will feature some of the exclusive upgrades in HotS and Kerrigan as the hero unit.
_________
I published a new version today to EU and KR (NA is a bitch and won't let me publish it, I will have to try later today or tomorrow). After exhaustive work I think I managed to fix most of the command card bugs and duplicated upgrade bugs. I also added the first instructions to the AI, so now it selects the basic units and upgrades and may pick a faction, but won't do much with it.
EDIT: NA updated. Have fun, and post anything you find.
@SoulFilcher:
So you think that Gorgons primary role should be AA? Hmm, but is not it what vikings and marines are for?
And heavy bombardment assault ship role fits their lore pretty well)
Oh, I see. It is a pity :-(
Good news! It would be very nice to control Kerrigan herself again, with her unique HotS abilities (of course you realize that some of them, namely passive ones, are way too gamebreaking to ever be incorporated)!
One more idea: what about making two versions (maybe diffrent coloured) of Leviathan? One will be heavy assault unit as it is now, and the other will be original Levi: slow, almost defenseless flying factory able to produce cocoons of Broodlords, Mutalisks, Scourge very quickly and for reduced prices?
P.S. Why dont you also upload Expanded on SC2Mapster? Last update: Sep 10, 2013 ...
@FreezingAcidRain: Go Ok, all these bugs are already fixed for the next update, but I won't rush it. I have the weekend to work on bugs so I'll wait to get more feedback. I'm also testing it myself offline and already identified other issues.
@SiarX: Go No, I don't mean Gorgon's primary role should be AA, I just said they can't be worse vs air than BCs already are if they are going to replace BCs. Terran air is not great, specially if compared to Protoss air, and I don't want to increase the gap.
I don''t think 2 versions of Leviathan are really necessary, the moving factory role was good for a boss unit in a mission, but having it produce faster and cheaper is simply not meant for multiplayer.
Now with 2.1 everybody can play the mod in the Custom Games section. It was uploaded to mapster back when that wasn't an option and global play and publishing didn't exist, so I had to count on other people to publish it for me. There is no real reason to keep updating the files offline.
I was playing around with the colonist faction and I found several bugs with them.
The Prisoner unit has several issues with his weapon: the weapon icon is a zerg missile weapon, his weapon model does not appear, no date appears (damage, weapon speed) when mousing over the weapon icon, and the weapon does NOT deal any damge to ally or enemy units.
The Blimp's "Incite Rebellion" ability adds a "rebel" debuff to enemy units but they do not attack nearby units or anything really.
The nomads "Seismec Thumper" building says in description it slows all unit but in practice slows enemy units but not allied units.
Colonists can build hellbats and seigetanks from the factory
Colonists can not build APC from the factory
Bio-Domes do not display a worker count for mineral mining SCVs.
Hercules description says it can get a "low flight orbit" upgrade but I am not able to find such an upgrade.
Not sure if a bug, but I was unable to build units out of the structures controlled by the Prisoners "hack ability
I also had a question about an ability, what counts as "salvaged scrap"? what can I use the nomads salvage ability on?
@TheAntking: Go Hey, thanks for dropping by and reporting those bugs. I already knew the Prisoner weapon was bugged, but it seems it got worse now. I think I'll create a new one and get rid of these problems.
The Blimp's ability turn the units in the area to hostile. They won't attack each other but will attack any units that weren't affected within range, or at least that is what they were supposed to do, I'll check that.
Thanks, some tooltips are outdated. I'll correct those.
The Siege Tank is a bug, but the Hellbat isn't. There is nothing to replace that unit for Colonists, so I decided to leave it, same for the Widow Mine. The APC is a bug too but it will be fixed in the next update.
I'll have to see how that worker count is even created first, and then fix it.
Another outdated tooltip, that upgrade has been removed.
Hack does not allow you to train units from controlled buildings, that isn't the purpose of the ability. I think I may need to inform that in the tooltip.
Right now the Salvage Scraps ability is complicated, it requires the Nomad to attack the building near its death to it spawns a scrap cube, then the Nomad can carry it back to a command center. I will change it so Nomads target dying buildings automatically to produce scraps.
EDIT: published another update today, I tried to fix most of the bugs you guys reported and also a lot I found. I'm slowly improving the AI instructions and I hope we will have a very nice AI someday.
In the next patch that's coming Soon™, can guardian's range be increased from 9 to 12 (or 15)? for range perspective thor aa is 10, tank is 13, and tempest is 15. right now mass mutalisk seems more effective with cost, both air and ground attack with a bit of splash. having the extra range like tempest or tank would encourage the transition to guardian, and be just like tempest but can't attack air.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go I know the Guardian is still lacking, specially if compared to the Broodlord it replaces. Out of the air roles Zerg may be missing, maybe the long range engagement is the best for the Guardian.
Zerg air additions are still not very defined. We have Leviathan, Swarm Guardians and Guardians still fighting for this heavy air role, even though they have several differences I still feel they overlap in a way I don't want them to. Adding range to the Guardian means I will make the Swarm Guardian a short range unit, and it would be basically a Zerg Battlecruiser.
Well, I have much to think when I get back to working on the mod. It is good to have you guys giving suggestions as some things may be already decided.
Hey guys, I'm just waiting for 2.1 patch to go live in all servers so I can publish the mod as an extension mod. It will also come with a few tweaks.
EDIT: Extension mod published, have fun. Here is the list of changes.
Armory: Ship and vehicle weapon upgrades combined.
Guardian: Weapon range increased to 12.
Mothership: Vortex removed, Time Warp added.
Jormungand brood: Renamed to Ryloth Brood.
Purifier: Vortex removed, Time Warp added.
Sunken Colony: Weapon cooldown reduced to 3.6.
Zerg Hybrid: Weapon range increased to 1.
Soul, I think that Swarm Guardians could function as a possible AvA Guardian? A reworked Guardian concept that simply fires at air rather than land. This would cause the faction choice to make air vulnerable to land while optimal vs aircraft. It would need testing, and I feel that it may overlap with the corruptor hower.
Another idea would be to have it evolve from Muta rather than Corruptor, and be a kind of fragile unit that hits hard vs land armored.
for the swarm guardian i was thinking guardian+brrood lord, ie rapid fire 10 damage spores for air and swarm seeds, with slow fireing spores for ground
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/nolanstars-textures/
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
@rickmary: Go We already have Corruptors, Devourers and Scourge. I don't want to add another dedicated anti-air unit. I thin the capital ship role is the best for the unit, but I haven't decided what could make it unique to play. Now that the original Guardian has taken the long range role these units will overlap less.
@nolanstar: Go No more free spawning units for Zerg, I think there's absolutely no need for that. I think I'm going with the attack they use in the Lost Vikings game. But I want the unit to have an unique ability, or additional effect in the attack itself.
EDIT: It seems that patch 2.1 brought additional bugs (as always), keep an eye open for them so they can be fixed quickly.
@SoulFilcher: Go bugs from 2.1
@FreezingAcidRain: Go Damn. The worst kind of bug. It seems they come from the mod being applied on top of multiplayer data in Custom Games. If I fix those to work in an Extension Mod they will most likely be broken for arcade maps.
Thumbs up Blizzard for f$%#ing this mod in the ass one more time.
@SoulFilcher: Go
I don't think that the Arcade maps are important anymore, I feel it's better to abandon them and stick with just extension mods, that way its one update for everyone, no more updating maps.
Wow, how many cool ideas and units! I like it a lot and will definitely give a time to this mod. A couple of questions: - is AI able to use factions selection feature? -Are high level factions units (such as laser tanks, hybrids, purifiers) mass buildable or unique? -Do you have Gorgonas and Hybrid Dominator in it? If no, then why?
@rickmary: Go Yes, that is true, but I will be unable to maintain a unit tester map.
@SiarX: Go Hi, thank you for taking the time to post here, I hope you can give feeback about and share ideas as well. To answer your questions:
AI was able to pick a faction and select units, but didn't make faction exclusive units or upgrades, in the Arcade maps. I still haven't added that feature to the extension mod but I will.
Most units can be massed, some are unique, like the Leviathan. The mod doesn't have Gorgons yet, but it does have the 2 types of hybrids, one for zerg and the other for protoss. Gorgons aren't in the mod yet because I still need to define their role and faction, and if they will be unique or normal.
Ok, I will post more suggestions later ;-)
Right now – several ideas:
I. Gorgons (smaller and quicker than in campaign) might replace BCs for some factions (Dominion?). They would be flying siege unit having good air-to-ground attack (small radius though), powerful bombs with huge bonus damage to buildings but being helpless against airborn enemies (although their ability allows to redirect cannons to air for a short period of time)
II. Since zerg have problems with AA, they might get scourge nests as compensation ;-) long-ranged AA, especially good at countering Gorgons according to lore ;-) Or maybe they could be invisible before first attack? Besides, self-guided scourges look really cool)
III. Hybrids. What do you think of idea of making them one faction? After all it makes more sense (true, destroyers look more protoss-like but they still have zergish features), why would they fight each other instead of obeying Dark Voice… Preferably zerg faction; they fit better role of covering weaknesses of powerful but innumerous hybrids with cheap massable cannon fodder and hybrids definitely prefer to use zergs, not some toss fanatics according to “bad end“. So you might unite all three of them (admittedly, dominator is just a bigger destroyer but he has really cool combination of spells). Oh, and resurrectable Maar would be a great hero B)
IV. Kerrigan. I have an idea how to implement hero Queen of Blades which we all love and fear without nerfing her to ground or making total imba. She might keep most of her abilities (except ones which obviously break game design – automated extractors, twin drones) and stats. It doesn’t actually make her invincible since she is still vulnerable to focus fire (even AI manages to kill her sometimes). Howerver after her death all friendly zergs on the map become oppressed become panic-stricken and start to attack each other instead of enemies for some period of time (or maybe another sort of negative bonus, I am not sure yet).
where's the patch? the mod is broken as is; mech can get 6 def from double upgrades and instant campaign units at 5 second build speed (notable are tanks). mod > arcade
@FreezingAcidRain: Go I'm working on it. It seems its even harder now to test things offline to make sure the changes worked. I don't want to upload a "stupid" patch that may break more things instead of fixing the current bugs.
@SiarX: Go I can't replace BCs with a unit that is even more helpless vs air units. Right now I'm more inclined to make them a unique unit, but its still open to discussion.
The problem with the Scourge Nest is that the model lacks proper animations. One example: it dies after shooting, so I can't add it to the game as it is.
I don't think both Hybrids should go in the same faction, they are both late tier units with a lot of firepower, so they are better kept apart. They do work with corrupt protoss forces, the Zhakul guardians under Maar command, so I think they are fine where they are. It does not mean they aren't serving the Dark Voice, as all Dominion Squadrons are still serving Mengsk.
Yes, I want to add a Kerrigan Brood, it will feature some of the exclusive upgrades in HotS and Kerrigan as the hero unit.
_________
I published a new version today to EU and KR (NA is a bitch and won't let me publish it, I will have to try later today or tomorrow). After exhaustive work I think I managed to fix most of the command card bugs and duplicated upgrade bugs. I also added the first instructions to the AI, so now it selects the basic units and upgrades and may pick a faction, but won't do much with it.
EDIT: NA updated. Have fun, and post anything you find.
@SoulFilcher: Go
@SoulFilcher: So you think that Gorgons primary role should be AA? Hmm, but is not it what vikings and marines are for? And heavy bombardment assault ship role fits their lore pretty well) Oh, I see. It is a pity :-( Good news! It would be very nice to control Kerrigan herself again, with her unique HotS abilities (of course you realize that some of them, namely passive ones, are way too gamebreaking to ever be incorporated)! One more idea: what about making two versions (maybe diffrent coloured) of Leviathan? One will be heavy assault unit as it is now, and the other will be original Levi: slow, almost defenseless flying factory able to produce cocoons of Broodlords, Mutalisks, Scourge very quickly and for reduced prices? P.S. Why dont you also upload Expanded on SC2Mapster? Last update: Sep 10, 2013 ...
@FreezingAcidRain: Go Ok, all these bugs are already fixed for the next update, but I won't rush it. I have the weekend to work on bugs so I'll wait to get more feedback. I'm also testing it myself offline and already identified other issues.
@SiarX: Go No, I don't mean Gorgon's primary role should be AA, I just said they can't be worse vs air than BCs already are if they are going to replace BCs. Terran air is not great, specially if compared to Protoss air, and I don't want to increase the gap.
I don''t think 2 versions of Leviathan are really necessary, the moving factory role was good for a boss unit in a mission, but having it produce faster and cheaper is simply not meant for multiplayer.
Now with 2.1 everybody can play the mod in the Custom Games section. It was uploaded to mapster back when that wasn't an option and global play and publishing didn't exist, so I had to count on other people to publish it for me. There is no real reason to keep updating the files offline.
I was playing around with the colonist faction and I found several bugs with them.
The Prisoner unit has several issues with his weapon: the weapon icon is a zerg missile weapon, his weapon model does not appear, no date appears (damage, weapon speed) when mousing over the weapon icon, and the weapon does NOT deal any damge to ally or enemy units.
The Blimp's "Incite Rebellion" ability adds a "rebel" debuff to enemy units but they do not attack nearby units or anything really.
The nomads "Seismec Thumper" building says in description it slows all unit but in practice slows enemy units but not allied units.
Colonists can build hellbats and seigetanks from the factory
Colonists can not build APC from the factory
Bio-Domes do not display a worker count for mineral mining SCVs.
Hercules description says it can get a "low flight orbit" upgrade but I am not able to find such an upgrade.
Not sure if a bug, but I was unable to build units out of the structures controlled by the Prisoners "hack ability
I also had a question about an ability, what counts as "salvaged scrap"? what can I use the nomads salvage ability on?
@TheAntking: Go Hey, thanks for dropping by and reporting those bugs. I already knew the Prisoner weapon was bugged, but it seems it got worse now. I think I'll create a new one and get rid of these problems.
The Blimp's ability turn the units in the area to hostile. They won't attack each other but will attack any units that weren't affected within range, or at least that is what they were supposed to do, I'll check that.
Thanks, some tooltips are outdated. I'll correct those.
The Siege Tank is a bug, but the Hellbat isn't. There is nothing to replace that unit for Colonists, so I decided to leave it, same for the Widow Mine. The APC is a bug too but it will be fixed in the next update.
I'll have to see how that worker count is even created first, and then fix it.
Another outdated tooltip, that upgrade has been removed.
Hack does not allow you to train units from controlled buildings, that isn't the purpose of the ability. I think I may need to inform that in the tooltip.
Right now the Salvage Scraps ability is complicated, it requires the Nomad to attack the building near its death to it spawns a scrap cube, then the Nomad can carry it back to a command center. I will change it so Nomads target dying buildings automatically to produce scraps.
EDIT: published another update today, I tried to fix most of the bugs you guys reported and also a lot I found. I'm slowly improving the AI instructions and I hope we will have a very nice AI someday.