Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
God me and a friend just played this for like 4 hours, and from that i have learned a few things
Zerg-
Primal
Brakk is worthless there is no reason to pick him when he takes 2 mins to build and i could get kraith 16x faster and Stomp ((literaly)) with just kraith
Kraith Overpowered can only be stopped by Air units i had him kill 20 ultralisks and he was still over 50% hes a fucking monster that only Air can
Please ad the Ash worm we all want it i am sure he was one of the more interesting of the pack leaders.
The replacement for spine crawler is not worth building. the race takes away my need for creep with primal hives.... they just do not feel worth it
Terran-
Infested
It would be nice to have a dedicated ground to Air option
The little pug dude that spawn cocoons there A.I is annoying when your trying to make use of more than 3 they will block each other and it makes spawning cocoons more of a chore then it is a fun mechanic wich it is.
Protoss-
Ya i got nothing for this at the moment spent most of my time checking out the zerg related stuff.
Recomendations.
Terrans-
Shadowgaurd ((the special Umojan specter/ghost)) need something... they do not seem use full or special at all.
Infected terran could use a ground to Air unit thats... good at fighting Air... aside from the Optional goliath.
Drop pods should not be available to all factions. i mean if i am playing tosh's pirates it just dont feel right using drop pods :I marines are also not jamaican to be pirates working under tosh ((jk))
its not raynors raiders with out the full team! they should get tychus,swan,raynor, stetman. would also be cool if raynor evolved with tech like start him of as a marine then let me buy the vulter or make him a sniper.
Protoss-
Fenix. Need somthing with fenix i would pay money for Fenix all the money
Zerg-
Gimmeh the ash worm dang it!
Zegaras eggs are bonkers please move them up the tech tree alittle getting drowned in 200 pop worth of zerg back to back in less than 2 mins is out of control ((really cool when its not you though))
Anceint queen needs to be able to infect terran structures I got all the nostalgias then it was crushed when non of its moved matched the old stuff aside from the parasite
The feral brood should get legit old school sunken colonies
Would also be cool to incorporate cerebrate they could be something you build at a high price that functions on its own like an Allied A.I and the player controls the over mind
The defensive brood johmagrundything ((i cant fuckin remember the name >.>)) it would be neet to have More defensive structures and even offensive structures would be neat
((can you tell i like zerg?))
Infested terran need more patrol routs on cocoons :I and should attack move after spawn not what ever the fuck it is they do now
Mkay this post is long enough and full of enough of my shitty spelling and grammer braindeadlessniss to kill the average person so i will stop here for now.
Warning: all of the opinions stated above are based on how "fun" the factions,boods,tribes Feel not on numerical balance aside from kraith.... hes Op... and brakk sucks dick please remove.... aside from that this post was made to talk about how fun the game is and were it feels like its lacking i will have more to come later! Like it or not!
Raphael , i'm interested in seeing how you managed to get those new zerg building. I tried searching the mod in the open map list on b.net , but it doesnt seem to be there. Any tips where should i find and open it ?
Also , i agree with the above post , Kraith is overpowered !!!
God me and a friend just played this for like 4 hours, and from that i have learned a few things
Zerg- Primal
Brakk is worthless there is no reason to pick him when he takes 2 mins to build and i could get kraith 16x faster and Stomp ((literaly)) with just kraith
Kraith Overpowered can only be stopped by Air units i had him kill 20 ultralisks and he was still over 50% hes a fucking monster that only Air can
Please ad the Ash worm we all want it i am sure he was one of the more interesting of the pack leaders.
The replacement for spine crawler is not worth building. the race takes away my need for creep with primal hives.... they just do not feel worth it
Terran- Infested
It would be nice to have a dedicated ground to Air option
The little pug dude that spawn cocoons there A.I is annoying when your trying to make use of more than 3 they will block each other and it makes spawning cocoons more of a chore then it is a fun mechanic wich it is.
Protoss-
Ya i got nothing for this at the moment spent most of my time checking out the zerg related stuff.
Recomendations.
Terrans-
Shadowgaurd ((the special Umojan specter/ghost)) need something... they do not seem use full or special at all.
Infected terran could use a ground to Air unit thats... good at fighting Air... aside from the Optional goliath.
Drop pods should not be available to all factions. i mean if i am playing tosh's pirates it just dont feel right using drop pods :I marines are also not jamaican to be pirates working under tosh ((jk))
its not raynors raiders with out the full team! they should get tychus,swan,raynor, stetman. would also be cool if raynor evolved with tech like start him of as a marine then let me buy the vulter or make him a sniper.
Protoss-
Fenix. Need somthing with fenix i would pay money for Fenix all the money
Zerg-
Gimmeh the ash worm dang it!
Zegaras eggs are bonkers please move them up the tech tree alittle getting drowned in 200 pop worth of zerg back to back in less than 2 mins is out of control ((really cool when its not you though))
Anceint queen needs to be able to infect terran structures I got all the nostalgias then it was crushed when non of its moved matched the old stuff aside from the parasite
The feral brood should get legit old school sunken colonies
Would also be cool to incorporate cerebrate they could be something you build at a high price that functions on its own like an Allied A.I and the player controls the over mind
The defensive brood johmagrundything ((i cant fuckin remember the name >.>)) it would be neet to have More defensive structures and even offensive structures would be neat
((can you tell i like zerg?))
Infested terran need more patrol routs on cocoons :I and should attack move after spawn not what ever the fuck it is they do now
Mkay this post is long enough and full of enough of my shitty spelling and grammer braindeadlessniss to kill the average person so i will stop here for now. Warning: all of the opinions stated above are based on how "fun" the factions,boods,tribes Feel not on numerical balance aside from kraith.... hes Op... and brakk sucks dick please remove.... aside from that this post was made to talk about how fun the game is and were it feels like its lacking i will have more to come later! Like it or not!
Do You know anything about lore?
also brakk is not worthless, high hp = splash and aa is very good
also read the previous posts in a topic so that you know about it and its development first, I know its a lot but it will help
some things;
-its not a sc1 conversion
-it fits lore
-I killed kraith with 10 marines (micro intensive)
-there already are infested
-gameplay is different in sc2, no permanent effects
-some things you said are not possible, get to know the editor (i.e. spawn an a.i.)
-I hero per faction
- keep your language calm (this is not 4chan(which I never go to)...)
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
@DEFILERRULEZ: Go I've been considering that. I have to keep in mind the additions for the Ultralisk so I can avoid overpowered combinations in the future.
@acolight: Go After I read your post I thought I could give the Stone Zealot the abililty to toggle air attack, like Baneling's target structure.
No more Broodlings, this is a decision I made long ago, even before HotS Swarm Host was annouced. There must be other good options for zerg that don't spawn free units. The Virophage's visual effect doesn't seem to look like something that bounces, more like a small splash effect. Removing energy is too specific, yes it would help against Medics and Medivacs, but the idea is to help the other defenses somehow. It would be nice vs Terran drops, but I'd rather make it good in other situations as well.
What is the Widow Mine's build time in ladder? Was it changed for HotS campaign? I know some mercenary buttons do not display cost or build time, but that's not my fault. I already asked Blizzard about it but never got an answer. The units actually reduce resources when built, they just dont sohw it in their buttons, so it's a minor bug.
So you're telling me Taurens aren't good to zone out Oracles? I'll see what I can do about it. They're supposed to be as good as any other unit that can hit air.
@nolanstar: Go I could unlock the Viper's attack, but it is very weak anyway, I can't make it stronger and enable them to fend off air attackers by themselves considering how much they troll ground armies already.
Do Queens need a life upgrade? (fun fact: I lost to mass Queens once in 3v3, the guy had his whole supply of Queens).
Jormungand will become something else, I have to bury these BW broods for good.
I dont know what [][))[([].:-_][) means, so... yeah.
The Dominion stopped the Shadowblade project when it went wrong, so no Dominion faction will unlock spectres.
I'm still not willing to add Mengsk's elites right now, they feel exactly like the mercenaries, and look exactly like mercenaries.
I tested some of the new towers, they're not close to being used right now. And Terrans is the worse race to plan new turrets, because if they're available early in the tech tree they can be used in the most ridiculous rushes.
Hybrid Adepts is a tribe, how can it get +15 life? Remember, I dont add generic upgrades that give +stats to multiple units.
There is a bayonet model in the editor. I can try to apply it with the upgrade, but no melee attack for Marines.
No, the Carrier has one of the best weapon upgrades in the game, because of all the Interceptors. And after a critical mass of Carriers (I know it isn't easy to make) their dps simply kills everything.
@fungod2: Go Thank you for taking the time to post here. I'm glad you and your friend enjoy playing it. There is a group where you can find other players as well.
Brakk is not worthless, but I know you're comparing him to Kraith. I still have a lot of work to do in balancing the pack leaders. Kraith's weakness is micro, that's how Blizzard planned most pack leaders anyway. But don't worry, I gather the feedback I get, and try to balance the units accordingly.
Infested terrans have almost all anti-air options that normal terrans have. Do you consider Ghosts important in your anti-air combats? And I can't come up with new units out of thin air. Blizzard failed to add infested units in the Zerg expansion, so I doubt we will see any.
I know Drop-pods shouldnt be availabe to all factions. I'm yet to decide where they should be.
Sorry, this is not a game about heroes. They were included to give you the feeling you're playing each faction/brood/tribe, but they're not there to overshadow the units. And adding more heroes with their own abilities require more micro from players, which SC2 doesn't need at all.
No Fenix, He is dead during SC2 timeline.
Ash Worm/Nydus Destroyer is under discussion. There is more than one way to add it to the game but I will use only one.
By Zagara's Eggs you mean the Egg Clusters, right? They spawn larvae just like Hatcheries, cost gas, don't allow workers to return resources to them, and don't count as any requirement, even hatchery. They can't be injected to produce more larvae, so I fail to see why they're a problem.
I wont add an ability such as Infest Command Center. Its too gimmicky and not that useful. Keep in mind that Queen was added as an option to Vipers, so I had to make their abilities somewhat similar. I'm even taking into consideration some swaps with the Defiler if necessary.
The Impaler Colony is close enough to the Sunken. I have to fix its attack but that's it.
Cerebrates are all dead during SC2 timeline. Adding an "allied AI" isn't possilbe in the way you want it, and it would help low macro/micro players only.
I use the structures I can find in SC2, there arent many. Adding simple attacking turrets isn't interesting, so I try to use the ideas that give them some diversity.
The cocoon mechanics are bound to be reworked.
@TeaLSC: Go The mod is public for download so you can find it by its name in the editor (sc expanded hots) if that's what you want. I'm not sure the assets are public right now, but they will be.
Ok, ok, it seems Kraith is a problem for some players. I have to think about that.
Thank you for taking the time to post here. I'm glad you and your friend enjoy playing it. There is a group where you can find other players as well.
Brakk is not worthless, but I know you're comparing him to Kraith. I still have a lot of work to do in balancing the pack leaders. Kraith's weakness is micro, that's how Blizzard planned most pack leaders anyway. But don't worry, I gather the feedback I get, and try to balance the units accordingly.
Infested terrans have almost all anti-air options that normal terrans have. Do you consider Ghosts important in your anti-air combats? And I can't come up with new units out of thin air. Blizzard failed to add infested units in the Zerg expansion, so I doubt we will see any.
Sorry, this is not a game about heroes. They were included to give you the feeling you're playing each faction/brood/tribe, but they're not there to overshadow the units. And adding more heroes with their own abilities require more micro from players, which SC2 doesn't need at all.
No Fenix, He is dead during SC2 timeline.
Ash Worm/Nydus Destroyer is under discussion. There is more than one way to add it to the game but I will use only one.
I wont add an ability such as Infest Command Center. Its too gimmicky and not that useful. Keep in mind that Queen was added as an option to Vipers, so I had to make their abilities somewhat similar. I'm even taking into consideration some swaps with the Defiler if necessary.
The Impaler Colony is close enough to the Sunken. I have to fix its attack but that's it.
Thanks for noticing my comment!. :D
Starting with the kraith issue Kraith can be built to quickly his build time is to low for his cost as it takes me twice as long to build brakk even though i will get more out of kraith. his AOE is over baring and i understand his counter is micro. but in ZvZ he will mulch all zerglings and get a nice fat chunck of roachs and hydras before his stopped. maybe other races can handle him better like Terran with diamond backs or what ever combination have you but when hes part of a large group of units he will win 1 to 1 with anything that is not Air. his cost build time for his power as stated is just Way to much power for so little.
I can understand what your saying with vipers or queens and defilers in my opinion would be flat out a better choice for an alternate option as a caster. but queens infest may have been gimicky but its a strong way to block and halt expands and honestly it was fun!
and you tell me Fenix is dead but you have the left 2 die brood.... there bluntly there just for the fun of it so why not have somthing like that for the protoss?
Now i can understand models and animations are limited but There are some huge differances between impaler and sunken i am just saying here. and it is a complete "immersion' brake to have impaler colony instead
And yes its not about heroes but the primal zerg have hero choices you could do the same with raynors raiders, Generals do not fight in every battle atop that there raiders jimmy can not do it alone
no Fenix, but early tier protoss zerg buster hero?
"won't add generic upgrades that give +stats to multiple units.", so you are getting rid of the terran upgrade that increases health and attack speed right?
brax zerg primial hero (ultralisk), if you burrow that unit, you can make more!
primail swarm host; what if they unleash creeperlings/banelings?
merchant BC should get siege mode (star battles: destroyer ship ability)
Didn't filcher say the mod was not all about heroes? If you wanted an RTS like that, go play Warcraft 3 or some MOBA.
Also, Soul, I remember you saying something a few pages back about making Vikings and wraiths a possible choice for terrans. I have a question though, what advantages and disadvantages will the Viking have over the wraith and vice versa. ill the Viking have a better dps in exchange for only being able to attack one plane of battle at a time, while the wraith has cloak? Also, is it possible to make the wraith a light unit since all terran air units are armored to possibly alter the counters a little?
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go
Didn't filcher say the mod was not all about heroes? If you wanted an RTS like that, go play Warcraft 3 or some MOBA.
I get that but i am talking Logic and lore here. Raynor is not leading every single battle. Horner and swan have there moments even tychus all have there moments in charge so would it not make sense for a player laying the raiders to have the option?. and he may say its not a game about heroes but the zerg have zagara,dehaka,brakk,Silvan,kraith, and more,Terran and protoss. they are part of this game and a relevant one at that.
This is a game with a considerable degree of competitiveness: gameplay must come first.
Do not hold to your own suggestions too much - it is SoulFilcher's map, and he will do with it as he sees fit; given the amount of redundancy in the Editor and how much you have to change in order to introduce new stuff or alter a behaviour, really, let go of your heroes mania. Yes, there are heroes, no, there arent all that many, and yes, units come first, heroes are for flavour / tactical options they provide with their 3/3 upgrades.
Considering infested anti-air: infested terrans (the unit) do not have stim, which is a major part of terran anti-air: unstimmed marines wont have a chance to catch up to oracles, will have great problems with microed voidrays and on and on. Now, I'm not certain about what should happen to infested air, but some kind of change could be appropriate, yes.
Zagara's deep tunnel has global range, no cd and no manacost; surely that isnt right? She's quite the threat this way!
Tauren Marines are quite slow, and countering oracles is not as much about killing them as it is about preventing them from killing things; its the chase and catching up that Tauren Marines are failing. Damage without stimpack is lacking, too, I'm afraid.
Widow Mines take 40 secs to build; I dont know about any alterations to them in the campaign.
On the free upgrade issue: if you actually have insufficient resources and start one, the game doesnt prevent you from doing that; whether the cost is actually deducted, I dont know, but even if it does, its kind of an issue.
Now theres one more important aspect of Zerg that seems to be campaign-based: larva generation. Please check that, because I strongly suspect - and my dueling partner does too - that larva spawn time is way faster than in ladder. The reasoning would be that in campaign queens dont inject larva, so hatching speed is higher in order to sustain a more dynamic gameplay. Please look into this, it is somewhat major.
Hydralisk movespeed, upgraded, seems way too high: I think its 2.85 or so in ladder out of creep, but its 3 in Expanded and 4.5 (!) on creep, making them oh-so-fucking-fast.
@fungod2: Go
Now theres one more important aspect of Zerg that seems to be campaign-based: larva generation. Please check that, because I strongly suspect - and my dueling partner does too - that larva spawn time is way faster than in ladder. The reasoning would be that in campaign queens dont inject larva, so hatching speed is higher in order to sustain a more dynamic gameplay. Please look into this, it is somewhat major.
The spawning of larva is 3 seconds faster in the campaign than in multiplayer. (look up the hatchery's spawn larva)
@fungod2: Go I will increase Kraith's build time in the next update, until I can decide for more changes.
No Infest Command Center.
All dead characters have been requested before. If I add one, I have to add all of them, and that won't happen.
Too bad Blizzard added an Impaler to the campaign and not Sunken Colony. I'm going with whatever I can find in the game.
Primals and the Dominion can have different heroes because they are large enough, and I can specialize each subfaction with different upgrades/units. I can't think of anything for Raiders, and as you said "Generals" usually stay out of battle, Swann is an engineer, Stetmann is a scientist, their appearance in a mission was purely for the way that mission played, they don't go out and fight. I think Raynor is good enough to make the faction feel like Raiders, he wasn't even unlocked, but players insisted to have him.
You misunderstand what I say on purpose right? Vanadium and Ultra capacitors are not what I meant by generic stat upgrades. I mean I wont add a new upgrade that increases the life of several units, like all Gateway units as one example. The closest I have is the Hybrid Physiology, because it gives regeneration to all protoss biological units, and that's a total of 3.
I'll fix that.
That would be a huge change to the unit. And right now I can't find a way to make such an ability work without bugs. If you ever tested Slivan you know what I mean.
This is not StarBattle. And the unit doesn't even use that model.
@Metalking1417: Go I can't make the Wraith have less dps, because its already forced to get closer to the target. 9 range is a big advantage over 6 range. Wraith's can't engage Colossi without geing attacked by Stalkers, unless they are Cloaked, but then again an observer totally denies the advantage. Wraiths can attack both, yes, but they can't engage Missile Turrets or Spore Crawlers with their awful dps, while Vikings can land and attack without retribution. There are all these small details, so I focused on balancing them against each other and in the anti-colossi role. I say we need more testing before I can make any changes to the Wraith.
@fungod2: Go As I replied to your previous post, they don't go up front and fight. Horner already appears because you can call the Hyperion. Swann is an engineer. I won't add Tychus because I don't feel he is in fact a Raider's leader. He fought the battles he had to fight or the ones he wanted, and in the end he was a traitor. You're comparing these with heroes that are either the fighting leaders of their groups (nearly all in the game), or very important in combat roles (Nova, the Purifier).
@acolight: Go That's an important point. I don't think there's anything I could add to replace Stimpacks. The use of creep could solve this issue, but I can't give creep to Infested because it blocks their own structures. The workaround for it right now is not viable, and blizzard didn't give me an answer when I asked for the change of a unit's footprint through upgrades.
I have to check how the ability works right now. My idea was to allow her to go back to her own structures, so she could easily retreat or move between expansions, so the player could be more aggressive with her. I guess a cooldown is a good thing.
Ok, I understand now. I have to tweak the Tauren. It was never supposed to stay as an "official" unit for the Colonists, but they are the only infantry unit that can hit air, because I needed to fill the Marauder slot. I think I need to make them as fast as Marines/Marauders.
Will be fixed in the next update.
I'll give it some tests. It isn't the kind of bug I can simply fix. I don't even know what causes that kind of bug.
How about for the infested marine, instead of giving him stim packs, give him a researchable debuff for enemies similar to ensnare only it only affects one unit at a time? (either that or give fatty the ensnare spell)
It is seeming more and more unfair that the Terrans have Drop-Pods and the Protoss have the Replicant and Shuttle. The Zerg are starting to become underdogs here.
The Replicant is fully capable of becoming workers, and has no range cap on it's scan ability. I used an Observer to spot a Drone, and got a drone, and began building a Zerg Base, which I could then choose units and faction for.
So my friend ragequit because I was both Hybrid Adepts Protoss, and Primal Zerg. I won a battle with Reavers/Primal Ultras.
@Metalking1417: Go It can't be a targeted ability for the Infested Marine, specially not one that requires single targeting for each Marine, that would be insane.
@rickmary: Go Those are bound to be moved to a faction/tribe. Check the list of changes here, as I updated the mod today.
COMPLETE LIST OF CHANGES
Baneling Nest: Build time fixed.
Block B: Weapon upgrades fixed.
Brakk: Requirement fixed.
Death Head: Life increased to 90; Life bar displays properly now.
Defiler: Hotkey changed to F; Collision and push issues fixed.
Destroyer: Shield regeneration fixed.
Diamondback: Weapon upgrades fixed.
Hatchery: Build time fixed; larvae spawn speed fixed.
Hive: Build time fixed.
Hydralisk: Upgraded speed fixed.
Hunter Killer: Upgraded speed fixed.
Infestation Pit: Build time fixed; Plague cost fixed.
Kraith: Build time increased to 160.
Lair: Build time fixed.
Outback Hunter: Upgrades added; Cost increased to 150/0; Life reduced to 135.
Queen: Build time fixed.
Ragnarocker: Armor upgrades added.
Replicant: Can be loaded in transports now; ability range reduced to 9; exclusive to the Furinax tribe.
Roach Warren: Build time fixed.
Spawning Pool: Build time fixed.
Spine Crawler: Build time fixed; root time fixed.
Spire: Build time fixed.
Spore Crawler: Root time fixed.
Starport: Cloaking research cost reduced to 100/100.
Stone Zealot: Button fixed.
Tauren: Movement speed increased to 2.25. Stimpack fixed.
Ultralisk Cavern: Build time fixed.
Virophage: Cost reduced to 150/100.
Widow Mine: Build time fixed.
Zagara: Added a 10sec cooldown to Deep Tunnel.
Just a random idea, maybe give Slivan the ability to summon Zerus Needlers? Spawning them and choosing which direction they face?
EDIT:
Drop-Pods need a nerf for sure, it is too easy to rush to factory and drop 6 widow mines with 2 droppods.
I propose that they require a tech-lab and a Starport
Hydralisk: Upgraded speed fixed....NNNOOOO (should be 3, not 2.81 off creep...this still makes them slower than stalkers, and they don't get speed upgrades)
couldn't replace Zagara's Deep Tunnel with swarm host's deep tunnel? or mabey allow it to be active at lair tech?
@rickmary: Go The Zerus needler isn't in my list right now. I don't think it can play a good role.
That's a good point. I still have to decide which faction will unlock them, but considering Widow Mines are "global", I think Tech Lab is a good requirement, but not Starport. I added them to the Factory for a reason, if Tech Lab by itself doesn't solve the problem I might add Armory.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go You know I'm sticking to Blizzard's balance here, so there's no point in discussing it.
I will make more tests with Zagara's Deep Tunnel, maybe switching to the Swarm Host's version is a good idea.
@Iksf: Go I know, I've been delaying the fix to that attack because I want to change it. I will do it for the next update.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
primals could unlock the aa attack for vipers
it might be a nice change if one brood could get a queen +hp upgrade
jormungand might benefit from the infestor burrowed speed upgrade
griffons at this point are [][))[([].:-_][)
omega squad could get the spectre instead of ghost and impaler rounds instead of ocular implants
i think the mengsk elites could essentually get umojan style upgrades and the models, units of your choice, and the korhal turrets,
alpha squadron could get a gun tower ( id of warfields quad cannon as a heavy defence,
hybrid adapts could get an upgrade that increases life by 15
ua238 shells could give the marine a bayonet, like it did in sc2 alpha
could one tribe get an interceptor capacity +2 upgrade
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/nolanstars-textures/
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
God me and a friend just played this for like 4 hours, and from that i have learned a few things
Zerg- Primal
Brakk is worthless there is no reason to pick him when he takes 2 mins to build and i could get kraith 16x faster and Stomp ((literaly)) with just kraith
Kraith Overpowered can only be stopped by Air units i had him kill 20 ultralisks and he was still over 50% hes a fucking monster that only Air can
Please ad the Ash worm we all want it i am sure he was one of the more interesting of the pack leaders.
The replacement for spine crawler is not worth building. the race takes away my need for creep with primal hives.... they just do not feel worth it
Terran- Infested
It would be nice to have a dedicated ground to Air option
The little pug dude that spawn cocoons there A.I is annoying when your trying to make use of more than 3 they will block each other and it makes spawning cocoons more of a chore then it is a fun mechanic wich it is.
Protoss-
Ya i got nothing for this at the moment spent most of my time checking out the zerg related stuff.
Recomendations.
Terrans-
Shadowgaurd ((the special Umojan specter/ghost)) need something... they do not seem use full or special at all.
Infected terran could use a ground to Air unit thats... good at fighting Air... aside from the Optional goliath.
Drop pods should not be available to all factions. i mean if i am playing tosh's pirates it just dont feel right using drop pods :I marines are also not jamaican to be pirates working under tosh ((jk))
its not raynors raiders with out the full team! they should get tychus,swan,raynor, stetman. would also be cool if raynor evolved with tech like start him of as a marine then let me buy the vulter or make him a sniper.
Protoss-
Fenix. Need somthing with fenix i would pay money for Fenix all the money
Zerg-
Gimmeh the ash worm dang it!
Zegaras eggs are bonkers please move them up the tech tree alittle getting drowned in 200 pop worth of zerg back to back in less than 2 mins is out of control ((really cool when its not you though))
Anceint queen needs to be able to infect terran structures I got all the nostalgias then it was crushed when non of its moved matched the old stuff aside from the parasite
The feral brood should get legit old school sunken colonies
Would also be cool to incorporate cerebrate they could be something you build at a high price that functions on its own like an Allied A.I and the player controls the over mind
The defensive brood johmagrundything ((i cant fuckin remember the name >.>)) it would be neet to have More defensive structures and even offensive structures would be neat
((can you tell i like zerg?))
Infested terran need more patrol routs on cocoons :I and should attack move after spawn not what ever the fuck it is they do now
Mkay this post is long enough and full of enough of my shitty spelling and grammer braindeadlessniss to kill the average person so i will stop here for now. Warning: all of the opinions stated above are based on how "fun" the factions,boods,tribes Feel not on numerical balance aside from kraith.... hes Op... and brakk sucks dick please remove.... aside from that this post was made to talk about how fun the game is and were it feels like its lacking i will have more to come later! Like it or not!
Raphael , i'm interested in seeing how you managed to get those new zerg building. I tried searching the mod in the open map list on b.net , but it doesnt seem to be there. Any tips where should i find and open it ?
Also , i agree with the above post , Kraith is overpowered !!!
Welcome to mapster
Do You know anything about lore?
also brakk is not worthless, high hp = splash and aa is very good
also read the previous posts in a topic so that you know about it and its development first, I know its a lot but it will help some things;
-its not a sc1 conversion
-it fits lore
-I killed kraith with 10 marines (micro intensive)
-there already are infested
-gameplay is different in sc2, no permanent effects
-some things you said are not possible, get to know the editor (i.e. spawn an a.i.)
-I hero per faction
- keep your language calm (this is not 4chan(which I never go to)...)
-your not the only one who plays
- READ PREVIOUS POSTS!!!!!!
(sorry...)
I feel like zagara arguing with dehaka now)
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/nolanstars-textures/
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
@DEFILERRULEZ: Go I've been considering that. I have to keep in mind the additions for the Ultralisk so I can avoid overpowered combinations in the future.
@acolight: Go After I read your post I thought I could give the Stone Zealot the abililty to toggle air attack, like Baneling's target structure.
No more Broodlings, this is a decision I made long ago, even before HotS Swarm Host was annouced. There must be other good options for zerg that don't spawn free units. The Virophage's visual effect doesn't seem to look like something that bounces, more like a small splash effect. Removing energy is too specific, yes it would help against Medics and Medivacs, but the idea is to help the other defenses somehow. It would be nice vs Terran drops, but I'd rather make it good in other situations as well.
What is the Widow Mine's build time in ladder? Was it changed for HotS campaign? I know some mercenary buttons do not display cost or build time, but that's not my fault. I already asked Blizzard about it but never got an answer. The units actually reduce resources when built, they just dont sohw it in their buttons, so it's a minor bug.
So you're telling me Taurens aren't good to zone out Oracles? I'll see what I can do about it. They're supposed to be as good as any other unit that can hit air.
@nolanstar: Go I could unlock the Viper's attack, but it is very weak anyway, I can't make it stronger and enable them to fend off air attackers by themselves considering how much they troll ground armies already.
Do Queens need a life upgrade? (fun fact: I lost to mass Queens once in 3v3, the guy had his whole supply of Queens).
Jormungand will become something else, I have to bury these BW broods for good.
I dont know what [][))[([].:-_][) means, so... yeah.
The Dominion stopped the Shadowblade project when it went wrong, so no Dominion faction will unlock spectres.
I'm still not willing to add Mengsk's elites right now, they feel exactly like the mercenaries, and look exactly like mercenaries.
I tested some of the new towers, they're not close to being used right now. And Terrans is the worse race to plan new turrets, because if they're available early in the tech tree they can be used in the most ridiculous rushes.
Hybrid Adepts is a tribe, how can it get +15 life? Remember, I dont add generic upgrades that give +stats to multiple units.
There is a bayonet model in the editor. I can try to apply it with the upgrade, but no melee attack for Marines.
No, the Carrier has one of the best weapon upgrades in the game, because of all the Interceptors. And after a critical mass of Carriers (I know it isn't easy to make) their dps simply kills everything.
@fungod2: Go Thank you for taking the time to post here. I'm glad you and your friend enjoy playing it. There is a group where you can find other players as well.
Brakk is not worthless, but I know you're comparing him to Kraith. I still have a lot of work to do in balancing the pack leaders. Kraith's weakness is micro, that's how Blizzard planned most pack leaders anyway. But don't worry, I gather the feedback I get, and try to balance the units accordingly.
Infested terrans have almost all anti-air options that normal terrans have. Do you consider Ghosts important in your anti-air combats? And I can't come up with new units out of thin air. Blizzard failed to add infested units in the Zerg expansion, so I doubt we will see any.
I know Drop-pods shouldnt be availabe to all factions. I'm yet to decide where they should be.
Sorry, this is not a game about heroes. They were included to give you the feeling you're playing each faction/brood/tribe, but they're not there to overshadow the units. And adding more heroes with their own abilities require more micro from players, which SC2 doesn't need at all.
No Fenix, He is dead during SC2 timeline.
Ash Worm/Nydus Destroyer is under discussion. There is more than one way to add it to the game but I will use only one.
By Zagara's Eggs you mean the Egg Clusters, right? They spawn larvae just like Hatcheries, cost gas, don't allow workers to return resources to them, and don't count as any requirement, even hatchery. They can't be injected to produce more larvae, so I fail to see why they're a problem.
I wont add an ability such as Infest Command Center. Its too gimmicky and not that useful. Keep in mind that Queen was added as an option to Vipers, so I had to make their abilities somewhat similar. I'm even taking into consideration some swaps with the Defiler if necessary.
The Impaler Colony is close enough to the Sunken. I have to fix its attack but that's it.
Cerebrates are all dead during SC2 timeline. Adding an "allied AI" isn't possilbe in the way you want it, and it would help low macro/micro players only.
I use the structures I can find in SC2, there arent many. Adding simple attacking turrets isn't interesting, so I try to use the ideas that give them some diversity.
The cocoon mechanics are bound to be reworked.
@TeaLSC: Go The mod is public for download so you can find it by its name in the editor (sc expanded hots) if that's what you want. I'm not sure the assets are public right now, but they will be.
Ok, ok, it seems Kraith is a problem for some players. I have to think about that.
Thanks :D
Thanks for noticing my comment!. :D
Starting with the kraith issue Kraith can be built to quickly his build time is to low for his cost as it takes me twice as long to build brakk even though i will get more out of kraith. his AOE is over baring and i understand his counter is micro. but in ZvZ he will mulch all zerglings and get a nice fat chunck of roachs and hydras before his stopped. maybe other races can handle him better like Terran with diamond backs or what ever combination have you but when hes part of a large group of units he will win 1 to 1 with anything that is not Air. his cost build time for his power as stated is just Way to much power for so little.
I can understand what your saying with vipers or queens and defilers in my opinion would be flat out a better choice for an alternate option as a caster. but queens infest may have been gimicky but its a strong way to block and halt expands and honestly it was fun!
and you tell me Fenix is dead but you have the left 2 die brood.... there bluntly there just for the fun of it so why not have somthing like that for the protoss?
Now i can understand models and animations are limited but There are some huge differances between impaler and sunken i am just saying here. and it is a complete "immersion' brake to have impaler colony instead
And yes its not about heroes but the primal zerg have hero choices you could do the same with raynors raiders, Generals do not fight in every battle atop that there raiders jimmy can not do it alone
@FreezingAcidRain: Go
Didn't filcher say the mod was not all about heroes? If you wanted an RTS like that, go play Warcraft 3 or some MOBA.
Also, Soul, I remember you saying something a few pages back about making Vikings and wraiths a possible choice for terrans. I have a question though, what advantages and disadvantages will the Viking have over the wraith and vice versa. ill the Viking have a better dps in exchange for only being able to attack one plane of battle at a time, while the wraith has cloak? Also, is it possible to make the wraith a light unit since all terran air units are armored to possibly alter the counters a little?
@FreezingAcidRain: Go
Difference, I think he means a stand - alone upgrade, not that
and why just the terran one?
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/nolanstars-textures/
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
I get that but i am talking Logic and lore here. Raynor is not leading every single battle. Horner and swan have there moments even tychus all have there moments in charge so would it not make sense for a player laying the raiders to have the option?. and he may say its not a game about heroes but the zerg have zagara,dehaka,brakk,Silvan,kraith, and more,Terran and protoss. they are part of this game and a relevant one at that.
@fungod2: Go
This is a game with a considerable degree of competitiveness: gameplay must come first.
Do not hold to your own suggestions too much - it is SoulFilcher's map, and he will do with it as he sees fit; given the amount of redundancy in the Editor and how much you have to change in order to introduce new stuff or alter a behaviour, really, let go of your heroes mania. Yes, there are heroes, no, there arent all that many, and yes, units come first, heroes are for flavour / tactical options they provide with their 3/3 upgrades.
Considering infested anti-air: infested terrans (the unit) do not have stim, which is a major part of terran anti-air: unstimmed marines wont have a chance to catch up to oracles, will have great problems with microed voidrays and on and on. Now, I'm not certain about what should happen to infested air, but some kind of change could be appropriate, yes.
Zagara's deep tunnel has global range, no cd and no manacost; surely that isnt right? She's quite the threat this way!
Tauren Marines are quite slow, and countering oracles is not as much about killing them as it is about preventing them from killing things; its the chase and catching up that Tauren Marines are failing. Damage without stimpack is lacking, too, I'm afraid.
Widow Mines take 40 secs to build; I dont know about any alterations to them in the campaign.
On the free upgrade issue: if you actually have insufficient resources and start one, the game doesnt prevent you from doing that; whether the cost is actually deducted, I dont know, but even if it does, its kind of an issue.
Now theres one more important aspect of Zerg that seems to be campaign-based: larva generation. Please check that, because I strongly suspect - and my dueling partner does too - that larva spawn time is way faster than in ladder. The reasoning would be that in campaign queens dont inject larva, so hatching speed is higher in order to sustain a more dynamic gameplay. Please look into this, it is somewhat major.
Hydralisk movespeed, upgraded, seems way too high: I think its 2.85 or so in ladder out of creep, but its 3 in Expanded and 4.5 (!) on creep, making them oh-so-fucking-fast.
The spawning of larva is 3 seconds faster in the campaign than in multiplayer. (look up the hatchery's spawn larva)
@fungod2: Go I will increase Kraith's build time in the next update, until I can decide for more changes.
No Infest Command Center.
All dead characters have been requested before. If I add one, I have to add all of them, and that won't happen.
Too bad Blizzard added an Impaler to the campaign and not Sunken Colony. I'm going with whatever I can find in the game.
Primals and the Dominion can have different heroes because they are large enough, and I can specialize each subfaction with different upgrades/units. I can't think of anything for Raiders, and as you said "Generals" usually stay out of battle, Swann is an engineer, Stetmann is a scientist, their appearance in a mission was purely for the way that mission played, they don't go out and fight. I think Raynor is good enough to make the faction feel like Raiders, he wasn't even unlocked, but players insisted to have him.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go And who would that be?
You misunderstand what I say on purpose right? Vanadium and Ultra capacitors are not what I meant by generic stat upgrades. I mean I wont add a new upgrade that increases the life of several units, like all Gateway units as one example. The closest I have is the Hybrid Physiology, because it gives regeneration to all protoss biological units, and that's a total of 3.
I'll fix that.
That would be a huge change to the unit. And right now I can't find a way to make such an ability work without bugs. If you ever tested Slivan you know what I mean.
This is not StarBattle. And the unit doesn't even use that model.
@Metalking1417: Go I can't make the Wraith have less dps, because its already forced to get closer to the target. 9 range is a big advantage over 6 range. Wraith's can't engage Colossi without geing attacked by Stalkers, unless they are Cloaked, but then again an observer totally denies the advantage. Wraiths can attack both, yes, but they can't engage Missile Turrets or Spore Crawlers with their awful dps, while Vikings can land and attack without retribution. There are all these small details, so I focused on balancing them against each other and in the anti-colossi role. I say we need more testing before I can make any changes to the Wraith.
@fungod2: Go As I replied to your previous post, they don't go up front and fight. Horner already appears because you can call the Hyperion. Swann is an engineer. I won't add Tychus because I don't feel he is in fact a Raider's leader. He fought the battles he had to fight or the ones he wanted, and in the end he was a traitor. You're comparing these with heroes that are either the fighting leaders of their groups (nearly all in the game), or very important in combat roles (Nova, the Purifier).
@acolight: Go That's an important point. I don't think there's anything I could add to replace Stimpacks. The use of creep could solve this issue, but I can't give creep to Infested because it blocks their own structures. The workaround for it right now is not viable, and blizzard didn't give me an answer when I asked for the change of a unit's footprint through upgrades.
I have to check how the ability works right now. My idea was to allow her to go back to her own structures, so she could easily retreat or move between expansions, so the player could be more aggressive with her. I guess a cooldown is a good thing.
Ok, I understand now. I have to tweak the Tauren. It was never supposed to stay as an "official" unit for the Colonists, but they are the only infantry unit that can hit air, because I needed to fill the Marauder slot. I think I need to make them as fast as Marines/Marauders.
Will be fixed in the next update.
I'll give it some tests. It isn't the kind of bug I can simply fix. I don't even know what causes that kind of bug.
I'll check and fix larvae and Hydralisk bugs.
@SoulFilcher: Go
How about for the infested marine, instead of giving him stim packs, give him a researchable debuff for enemies similar to ensnare only it only affects one unit at a time? (either that or give fatty the ensnare spell)
@SoulFilcher: Go
Soul, I did some playing with some friends.
It is seeming more and more unfair that the Terrans have Drop-Pods and the Protoss have the Replicant and Shuttle. The Zerg are starting to become underdogs here.
The Replicant is fully capable of becoming workers, and has no range cap on it's scan ability. I used an Observer to spot a Drone, and got a drone, and began building a Zerg Base, which I could then choose units and faction for.
So my friend ragequit because I was both Hybrid Adepts Protoss, and Primal Zerg. I won a battle with Reavers/Primal Ultras.
@Metalking1417: Go It can't be a targeted ability for the Infested Marine, specially not one that requires single targeting for each Marine, that would be insane.
@rickmary: Go Those are bound to be moved to a faction/tribe. Check the list of changes here, as I updated the mod today.
COMPLETE LIST OF CHANGES
Baneling Nest: Build time fixed.
Block B: Weapon upgrades fixed.
Brakk: Requirement fixed.
Death Head: Life increased to 90; Life bar displays properly now.
Defiler: Hotkey changed to F; Collision and push issues fixed.
Destroyer: Shield regeneration fixed.
Diamondback: Weapon upgrades fixed.
Hatchery: Build time fixed; larvae spawn speed fixed.
Hive: Build time fixed.
Hydralisk: Upgraded speed fixed.
Hunter Killer: Upgraded speed fixed.
Infestation Pit: Build time fixed; Plague cost fixed.
Kraith: Build time increased to 160.
Lair: Build time fixed.
Outback Hunter: Upgrades added; Cost increased to 150/0; Life reduced to 135.
Queen: Build time fixed.
Ragnarocker: Armor upgrades added.
Replicant: Can be loaded in transports now; ability range reduced to 9; exclusive to the Furinax tribe.
Roach Warren: Build time fixed.
Spawning Pool: Build time fixed.
Spine Crawler: Build time fixed; root time fixed.
Spire: Build time fixed.
Spore Crawler: Root time fixed.
Starport: Cloaking research cost reduced to 100/100.
Stone Zealot: Button fixed.
Tauren: Movement speed increased to 2.25. Stimpack fixed.
Ultralisk Cavern: Build time fixed.
Virophage: Cost reduced to 150/100.
Widow Mine: Build time fixed.
Zagara: Added a 10sec cooldown to Deep Tunnel.
@SoulFilcher: Go
Just a random idea, maybe give Slivan the ability to summon Zerus Needlers? Spawning them and choosing which direction they face?
EDIT: Drop-Pods need a nerf for sure, it is too easy to rush to factory and drop 6 widow mines with 2 droppods. I propose that they require a tech-lab and a Starport
Cerebus dont get attack upgrades, assume this is a bug as it makes them completely useless when theyr doing 1 damage per shot vs +3 armor units
@rickmary: Go The Zerus needler isn't in my list right now. I don't think it can play a good role.
That's a good point. I still have to decide which faction will unlock them, but considering Widow Mines are "global", I think Tech Lab is a good requirement, but not Starport. I added them to the Factory for a reason, if Tech Lab by itself doesn't solve the problem I might add Armory.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go You know I'm sticking to Blizzard's balance here, so there's no point in discussing it.
I will make more tests with Zagara's Deep Tunnel, maybe switching to the Swarm Host's version is a good idea.
@Iksf: Go I know, I've been delaying the fix to that attack because I want to change it. I will do it for the next update.