So, Soul Filcher, Are there going to be any statistical differences between the primal zerg units and their vanilla counter parts? I for one can see the Primal Zergling doing more damage per attack but having a lower attack rate, ultimately amounting for the same DPS. Also, the Primal Ultralisks could do more damage to a single target but have less/no area of effect damage compared to the Kaiser Blades of the regular Ultralisks.
More bugs, The Aberration's deep burrow doesn't work, the portrait for the nomad is miss placed, Kraith can't attack air (his attack hits the units below the flyer instead) and the button for the zergling upgrade from Niadra's brood is just white. How about you give all broods nydus destroyers but give the primals ash worms, also a idea for the Mengks elite faction could be that you would have to build a add-on on to a building that allows you to build mengks elite versions of regular units.
@FreezingAcidRain
A ranged replacement for the zealot? that would be pretty OP and making it a no brainer for a rusher or when playing against zerg players.
@Kanitala
I don't think the name 'the sons of korhal' would fit it because Mengsk said "Kerrigan, you are surrounded by the Mengsk elite" and besides the sons of korhal is the name of the marine.
@Soulfilcher
Ah thanks I just saw it when i was going through my rebels, does work with weaponry? also the nomad doesn't attack, i tried and nothing happens.
Just checked, the actual line is "You are surrounded by the Dominion's elite." So more a description than not an exact name.
And I know Son of Korhal is the name of the Marine, that's the point. But if Filcher doesn't want to use it, that's fine by me. Just tossing ideas out and see what sticks :D
Hmm maybe a name with Wolves in it somewhere, just thinking how Mengsk uses Wolves heavily in his heraldry... hmm.
Mind you, Soul hasn't even said he's going to use the Dominion Elite anywhere yet :)
'course, it's actually possible that his Elite Guard is in fact Alpha Squadron. He does mention them during the final mission he does say something like "Alpha Squadron, attack!"
@Kanitala
thanks i just went through the campain again and saw that, well technically the alpha squadron was one of the groups sent to destroy the hyperion but there was also the sky fury squadron and the group following the odin that mengsk called. eh you do have a point, its soul filcher's choice.
@DEFILERRULEZ
the zeus is basically a weaponized hercules, maybe the colonist should get it? cause they lack a lot of air support and they only have like 3 anti air units.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go let's just use the Raptor for now, I don't see anything better. Zerg needs a tier 1 unit option, and so far it is the Baneling vs Raptor option. But may now that we have Swarm Queens it could be changed to a Queen option.
As I have said before, melee vs ranged isnt a balanced option at all.
New update when I think it has enough bug fixes/game changes, of if a critical bug appears.
@Metalking1417: Go Yes, there will be diferences. For the Primal Zergling I thought it could be simply stronger, but not spawned in pairs. Gameplay-wise it would be closer to the zealot.
@Zertoss135: Go Nydus Destroyers and Ash Worms are the exact same thing, so I won't add both.
Making new addons work isn't simple, so I won't go through that road.
I'll check the Nomad.
@DEFILERRULEZ: Go Yes, I've been working on it. It will replace the Battlecruiser. But I didnt want to scrap the Hercules. The thing is I can't make the Hercules replace the Medivac because the lack of healing abilties would make colonist bio suck... more than it does now.
Concerning the Colonist healers... Perhaps you could remedy that by giving the Colonist faction double Medics without Tech Labs, like the WoL Armory upgrade would. That way Colonists could pump out more Medics faster, helping them balance out a bit more. Also, you could let Medics continue healing soldiers while they're inside transport ships (which I always thought was more practical, but they don't do that in the game for some strange reason).
your just saying its op with no explaination. marines are ranged and people don't find them op. zealots are op vs zergling. zealots are good vs marines (in generial) and zealots are good vs zerglings. all i am saying in the vindicator sould behave as a marauder, just good vs light units; marines, zerglings, equal to zealots, and week vs heavy units; spine crawlers, queens, roaches, marauders, and stakers. they would have a powerfull attack, but be very week, like 30/30 or 25/25 with no amour with a slow run speed (equal to zealots), meaning easy to kill. the fact it has range is irreleative to being op. it can work, it just needs lots of testing. the drop pod is whats op now beacause of widowmines popping out of the mineral lines, you can store 3 you know in every pod and its not very good if you don't have dectection.
infested terrans
terran predator health is 140, 200/200 and 6 supply, why? for a late tech unit its should have 200 health, 150/75, supply 3.
arrbrations, they seem kind of week. raise attack to at least 20 from 10 + 5 vs heavy. minerail cost down from 200 to 150.
infested marines, rather than stim, they should have frennzy that acts like stim.
suicide firebat at the factory would make things interesting as a replacement to the hellbat as the hellbat has no infested model, yet.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go A ranged unit that deals more damage than zealots, and run at the same speed would be better than zealots. Do you know what micro can do with Marines? If life was to be reduced in order to balance it in the end the unit would be too fragile or too similar to the Marine.
Good point with the Drop Pod, but that was, and still is experimental.
Terran Predator was actually bugged. The train ability was creating 2 of them, thats why the cost is 200/200 and supply is shown as 6. It shreds workers and other melee units, it cant have 200 life, it doesnt even make sense that a cyber cat has that much life.
Aberrations were bugged as well, they are meant to get the new campaign damage, at least for testing purposes now, because I belive it will have to be nerfed later.
You're really stuck at the suicidal firebat, aren't you? I don't know where that one came from, and I don't know why it would be a good option to Hellbats or why they should come from a factory to begin with.
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
@FreezingAcidRain
Marines are glass on there own, the reason they are not considered op cause they are really easy to kill. A range zealot would be a really good counter any early game unit and if its as fast as a zealot then it is way better than a zealot and couldn't be a equal choice for the zealot, also if it is the marauder for the protoss then it should replace the stalker/dragoon which would mean it's equal. Also if it was good against light units then early game units can't do a thing about it, since early game terrans do little damage it would be unequal as it would do a lot of damage vs light and not to mention kiting as zealot can out run marines easily and low hp doesn't stop it from being op as High templar are extremely easy to kill but can dish out a huge amount of damage before that.. Here my explanation on why it would be OP, please PM me if you object in any way and i will happily continue to argue.
Also why do you want Infested Firebats to be suicidal units so much? Making them a replacement to the vulture/hellion would be stupid as they just explode and 100 minerals isn't worth a suicidal unit. also Soul has a point it is not a really good replacement to hellbats either.
@Soulfilcher
Is it possible to launch multiple drop pods at once? Also Nydus Destroyers generate creep when they come out but Ash worms don't.
@Zertoss135: Go You can launch as many Drop Pods as you want. There is no real limit beyond the number of Drop Pods you can build. And I consider the creep spread a minor thing, definitely not enough to make Nydus Destroyer and Ash Worm 2 different things.
textures from matchups are overwriting textures in the game, example protoss hybrid pylon will be the golden new pylon and speedlings will look just like gliderlings
is the dragoon model the same one ghostnova created?
tal'darim and hybrid combination, I want it. i think void rays and stakers can be used beacuse a) they have the dark texture thats rdy to use b) there were pressent in all vs protoss campains c) Nerazim were only the dark templar, they may of been used only for a game mechanic in a campain. the lore doesn't make sence, as the tal'darim do become the dark templar with the sundrop/tarrazine, and it would be easier on players if it was voids + scouts, as players will often focus on one, or rather there perfered build. I mean if a dark dragoon does not exist, use the staker for now.
below is some ingame footage of tosh faction vs protoss hybrids, (free to use, high graphics)
@SoulFilcher
I am saying can you launch multiple drop pods at once, is it possible?
@FreezingAcidRain
The tal'darim are not a dark templar tribe, they are a tribe that isn't apart of the main protoss group, they use sundrop and terrazine as a drug believing it will bring them closer to the Xe'naga, but you do have a point they should merge with the hybrid adepts because they where seen with narud in that mission but they shouldn't get voids or stalkers because they are one of the tribes that didn't go to Shakuras to stay and are not apart of the main protoss group. Plus almost all times they where seen they had scouts instead of voids, the stalker was there because Blizzard couldn't be bothered to make a stalker model.
isn't it hinted somewhere the tal'darim are recruiting from the main protoss, the hint being on Shakuras? this fine detail on void and stakers not being used could be overlooked, and i doubt the average (marjority) player knows that, i didn't know that till now. and yea i know tal'darim are not a dark templar, rather i say they become more like the dark templar with the drug's effect (wasn't ulrezaj a dark templar?). voids are a bit different now than scouts, 2 suply difference and the new voidray powerup. mabey tal'darim staker is a modified staker(it is shaped differenly), for pun call it Prowler or Tracker. there's already a clone faction of the tal'darim and it has shield batteries.
launch multiple drop pods at once, i asked for this one once. its a bad idea though, means you can drop mass widow mines, hell bats, or you entire army at minerial lines with every scan without much warning.
From what I understand, the Tal'darim have been cut off from the Khala and now use the Void (which can explain the void rays) to fuel their psionic abilities. The rank and file Tal'darim however do not know that and it is a bad idea to enlighten them of it.
@FreezingAcidRain
Well the Tal'darim are kind of a rouge group of protoss, and you are right they are like dark templar because of the effect of sundrop, which removes their connection to the Khala but they still hate dark templar deeply. Ulrezaj was a Dark Archon terrorist and wasn't apart of the Tal'darim but introduced sundrop to them, especially the ones in Aiur. The tal'darim are considered a really religious tribe that still follows the Xel'naga and belieave in a lot of mumbo jumbo about them which is why they protect their artifacts and terrazine (which they say is the 'breath of the gods')
@Metalking1417
The Tal'darim hate the Dark templar more than anything and wouldn't use voidrays or the void because of that hatred. Some Tal'darim protoss are vulnerable to infestation because of the effect of sundrop, which remove the khala protection but there still are Tal'darim Protoss who are connected to the Khala.
About the primal faction i think that it need to be "redesigned".
Here it is a wall of text of suggestions:
Primal faction will no longer have creep,creep tumors and non-primal zerg units/buildings,with the exception of drone,spore crawler,spawning pool,roach warren,infestation pit,Hydralisk Den,Spire,greatest spire,greatest nydus network,ultralisk cavern
Instead of Hatchery-Lair-Hive u will use the primal hive,that will unlock this units:
DEFILERRULEZ
what would the supply be? plus a self defending base? OP also I read through some post in the thread and didn't Soul say he wasn't going to replace hatcheries/lair/hives with primal hives?
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@SoulFilcher: Go
So, Soul Filcher, Are there going to be any statistical differences between the primal zerg units and their vanilla counter parts? I for one can see the Primal Zergling doing more damage per attack but having a lower attack rate, ultimately amounting for the same DPS. Also, the Primal Ultralisks could do more damage to a single target but have less/no area of effect damage compared to the Kaiser Blades of the regular Ultralisks.
More bugs, The Aberration's deep burrow doesn't work, the portrait for the nomad is miss placed, Kraith can't attack air (his attack hits the units below the flyer instead) and the button for the zergling upgrade from Niadra's brood is just white. How about you give all broods nydus destroyers but give the primals ash worms, also a idea for the Mengks elite faction could be that you would have to build a add-on on to a building that allows you to build mengks elite versions of regular units.
@FreezingAcidRain A ranged replacement for the zealot? that would be pretty OP and making it a no brainer for a rusher or when playing against zerg players.
@Kanitala I don't think the name 'the sons of korhal' would fit it because Mengsk said "Kerrigan, you are surrounded by the Mengsk elite" and besides the sons of korhal is the name of the marine.
@Soulfilcher Ah thanks I just saw it when i was going through my rebels, does work with weaponry? also the nomad doesn't attack, i tried and nothing happens.
Just checked, the actual line is "You are surrounded by the Dominion's elite." So more a description than not an exact name.
And I know Son of Korhal is the name of the Marine, that's the point. But if Filcher doesn't want to use it, that's fine by me. Just tossing ideas out and see what sticks :D
Hmm maybe a name with Wolves in it somewhere, just thinking how Mengsk uses Wolves heavily in his heraldry... hmm.
Mind you, Soul hasn't even said he's going to use the Dominion Elite anywhere yet :)
'course, it's actually possible that his Elite Guard is in fact Alpha Squadron. He does mention them during the final mission he does say something like "Alpha Squadron, attack!"
Soul you will add the Zeus to some factions?
@Kanitala thanks i just went through the campain again and saw that, well technically the alpha squadron was one of the groups sent to destroy the hyperion but there was also the sky fury squadron and the group following the odin that mengsk called. eh you do have a point, its soul filcher's choice.
@DEFILERRULEZ the zeus is basically a weaponized hercules, maybe the colonist should get it? cause they lack a lot of air support and they only have like 3 anti air units.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go let's just use the Raptor for now, I don't see anything better. Zerg needs a tier 1 unit option, and so far it is the Baneling vs Raptor option. But may now that we have Swarm Queens it could be changed to a Queen option.
As I have said before, melee vs ranged isnt a balanced option at all.
New update when I think it has enough bug fixes/game changes, of if a critical bug appears.
@Metalking1417: Go Yes, there will be diferences. For the Primal Zergling I thought it could be simply stronger, but not spawned in pairs. Gameplay-wise it would be closer to the zealot.
@Zertoss135: Go Nydus Destroyers and Ash Worms are the exact same thing, so I won't add both.
Making new addons work isn't simple, so I won't go through that road.
I'll check the Nomad.
@DEFILERRULEZ: Go Yes, I've been working on it. It will replace the Battlecruiser. But I didnt want to scrap the Hercules. The thing is I can't make the Hercules replace the Medivac because the lack of healing abilties would make colonist bio suck... more than it does now.
@SoulFilcher: Go
Concerning the Colonist healers... Perhaps you could remedy that by giving the Colonist faction double Medics without Tech Labs, like the WoL Armory upgrade would. That way Colonists could pump out more Medics faster, helping them balance out a bit more. Also, you could let Medics continue healing soldiers while they're inside transport ships (which I always thought was more practical, but they don't do that in the game for some strange reason).
@Zertoss135: Go
your just saying its op with no explaination. marines are ranged and people don't find them op. zealots are op vs zergling. zealots are good vs marines (in generial) and zealots are good vs zerglings. all i am saying in the vindicator sould behave as a marauder, just good vs light units; marines, zerglings, equal to zealots, and week vs heavy units; spine crawlers, queens, roaches, marauders, and stakers. they would have a powerfull attack, but be very week, like 30/30 or 25/25 with no amour with a slow run speed (equal to zealots), meaning easy to kill. the fact it has range is irreleative to being op. it can work, it just needs lots of testing. the drop pod is whats op now beacause of widowmines popping out of the mineral lines, you can store 3 you know in every pod and its not very good if you don't have dectection.
infested terrans
@FreezingAcidRain: Go A ranged unit that deals more damage than zealots, and run at the same speed would be better than zealots. Do you know what micro can do with Marines? If life was to be reduced in order to balance it in the end the unit would be too fragile or too similar to the Marine.
Good point with the Drop Pod, but that was, and still is experimental.
Terran Predator was actually bugged. The train ability was creating 2 of them, thats why the cost is 200/200 and supply is shown as 6. It shreds workers and other melee units, it cant have 200 life, it doesnt even make sense that a cyber cat has that much life.
Aberrations were bugged as well, they are meant to get the new campaign damage, at least for testing purposes now, because I belive it will have to be nerfed later.
You're really stuck at the suicidal firebat, aren't you? I don't know where that one came from, and I don't know why it would be a good option to Hellbats or why they should come from a factory to begin with.
infested firebats could work if vulture/ hellion is disabled, but why suicide? there is a suicide sc1 infested terran by gm as well.
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/nolanstars-textures/
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
@nolanstar: Go
@FreezingAcidRain Marines are glass on there own, the reason they are not considered op cause they are really easy to kill. A range zealot would be a really good counter any early game unit and if its as fast as a zealot then it is way better than a zealot and couldn't be a equal choice for the zealot, also if it is the marauder for the protoss then it should replace the stalker/dragoon which would mean it's equal. Also if it was good against light units then early game units can't do a thing about it, since early game terrans do little damage it would be unequal as it would do a lot of damage vs light and not to mention kiting as zealot can out run marines easily and low hp doesn't stop it from being op as High templar are extremely easy to kill but can dish out a huge amount of damage before that.. Here my explanation on why it would be OP, please PM me if you object in any way and i will happily continue to argue.
Also why do you want Infested Firebats to be suicidal units so much? Making them a replacement to the vulture/hellion would be stupid as they just explode and 100 minerals isn't worth a suicidal unit. also Soul has a point it is not a really good replacement to hellbats either.
@Soulfilcher Is it possible to launch multiple drop pods at once? Also Nydus Destroyers generate creep when they come out but Ash worms don't.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go Yes it has already been fixed.
@Zertoss135: Go You can launch as many Drop Pods as you want. There is no real limit beyond the number of Drop Pods you can build. And I consider the creep spread a minor thing, definitely not enough to make Nydus Destroyer and Ash Worm 2 different things.
@SoulFilcher I am saying can you launch multiple drop pods at once, is it possible?
@FreezingAcidRain The tal'darim are not a dark templar tribe, they are a tribe that isn't apart of the main protoss group, they use sundrop and terrazine as a drug believing it will bring them closer to the Xe'naga, but you do have a point they should merge with the hybrid adepts because they where seen with narud in that mission but they shouldn't get voids or stalkers because they are one of the tribes that didn't go to Shakuras to stay and are not apart of the main protoss group. Plus almost all times they where seen they had scouts instead of voids, the stalker was there because Blizzard couldn't be bothered to make a stalker model.
@Zertoss135: Go
@FreezingAcidRain: Go
From what I understand, the Tal'darim have been cut off from the Khala and now use the Void (which can explain the void rays) to fuel their psionic abilities. The rank and file Tal'darim however do not know that and it is a bad idea to enlighten them of it.
@FreezingAcidRain Well the Tal'darim are kind of a rouge group of protoss, and you are right they are like dark templar because of the effect of sundrop, which removes their connection to the Khala but they still hate dark templar deeply. Ulrezaj was a Dark Archon terrorist and wasn't apart of the Tal'darim but introduced sundrop to them, especially the ones in Aiur. The tal'darim are considered a really religious tribe that still follows the Xel'naga and belieave in a lot of mumbo jumbo about them which is why they protect their artifacts and terrazine (which they say is the 'breath of the gods')
@Metalking1417 The Tal'darim hate the Dark templar more than anything and wouldn't use voidrays or the void because of that hatred. Some Tal'darim protoss are vulnerable to infestation because of the effect of sundrop, which remove the khala protection but there still are Tal'darim Protoss who are connected to the Khala.
Soul what do you about using these textures for primal roach? http://www.sc2mapster.com/media/images/55/639/SS_-_Combat.jpg
DEFILERRULEZ what would the supply be? plus a self defending base? OP also I read through some post in the thread and didn't Soul say he wasn't going to replace hatcheries/lair/hives with primal hives?