Fun game, i am just curious, is there a verses AI mode coming anytime soon? i want to try out a few combinations and single player is too easy to cream your enemies with any build, and waiting for multiplayer games is taking too long for the times that i've been playing :( i hope that this becomes a popular game, really nice work so far :)
There will not be an AI mode ever implemented into this map. I enable single player since the popularity system is retarded and you can't get other people to join till it gets popular. You can however join the lookign for custom game public channel and ask people to join that way. I was able to test the game full house by spamming that channel lol
AS for the terrain, once again, if someone is interested in working on it, be my guest. I will not. Not my thing.
Tried it with the single player mode just to get a very, very basic idea of the game (despite how DOTA-ish it obviously seems).
Yes it's DOTA styled, but I do like how its 3 ways of war and how you can effect your army composition.
My 2 cents from this basic, 30 minute game I did:
Terrain is ... meh. BUT I understand your point. Hopefully some one will step up and help you out in that regard. I mainly find it a problem simply because it's not very balanced or... seems to miss a few marks game play wise. Grant it, I was alone when I was testing it, but it was more than easy to snipe production buildings by avoiding towers, and certain paths are problematic in terms of travel time.
Would love to see base expansion - An ability to cap "Expoes" down a Lane by building a forward base would be boss and add to the flavor of play. I'd personally prefer that over the Power Up items that randomly appear.
Reapers do not do any damage towards buildings. Not sure if this was planned or not, but they don't do that good of DPS versus other Bio units to warrent having an attack that does 0 damage to structures, thus making them just sit in the way blocking other troops from doing anything.
I wonder if there could be some more weight to the player choosing to either influence army, or influencing the hero. Currently, you just power level both. Heroes level, gain points to boost their power PLUS the GP earned and Reinforcement Points power levels the Army. There's no cost between the two BOTH being buffed up. What if there was? What if it cost GP to buff the Heroes Base Stats (the life, attack, energy ect) and still cost cash to purchase new troops as well? One could choose to buff their Lane with better soldiers, or simply soloing by being a godly hero. What would you think?
Overall: Just from the 30 minutes of SP, It's awesome enough for me to Bookmark it later and try to MP. I'll enjoy this one, as it offers FAR more depth IMO than most of the other DotA game types and I'm far tired to the DtoA clones in particular. I do LOVE how there is more than just one way to win. That is a bright father in this maps cap, and you deserve a scratch and sniff sticker for that, good sir! :)
Yes. I originally on map creation had single player disabled cause of that point that the game is just retarded easy. I mean you add one unit to your lane and you will win that lane lol. I decided to add single player since the map isn't popular and it will one, give players the option to check it out and two boost the popularity hopefully.
I like the base expansion idea, but I don't think the map size supports it. I wanted to do a smaller size for a more fast paced game. I really do like this idea though.
All units do normal damage versus buildings. I had to make it this way after I made the base defenses be really weak starting out. Now, every time you reinforce a unit to your lane, the defenses increase on that lane. So in single player, that's why everything dies so easily. There is no other players making them stronger. I made it this way to stop players from saving up right for a tier 4 unit. If you save up, and your opponent doesn't, you die.
So what your saying is make it so the players would maybe use an augment point to yield spawn tokens? I kinda like that, but the army sizes would be really small overall and I think it would take away from the fun of the map. If you can think of a better way to implement this in, I'll consider it.
Glad you like. I also think it's quite fun. I've tested the crap out of this map with a full house and it's quite fun and really fast pace. Thanks for the post :)
Expansions could be easily doable via some artistic changes! For example, instead of using CC/Nexi/Hatches, you use the Refineries instead as make shift Mineral Stations. Smaller Building, Smaller Base. Also the mains are already quite small. The Expos will undoubtedly be smaller. Size here isn't always a bad thing as you'll want to enforce tight, close combat anyway. These bases will need to be constantly contested because the extra Income will be a heavy boost to the winning faction. Further more, this Idea does rely heavily on the Terrain of the Map. An improved Terrain could easily leave room for these Expo ideas.
I noticed the Reaper thing in particular because I was goofing off towards the end of the match, I massed nothing but Reaps toward the Toss, and Massed nothing but 'Rine vs the Zerg. The 'Rines completely wiped the Zerg without my hero even needing to intervene. The Reapers though, were doing no dmg to the buildings, so they would stand in line, dying one by one to the cannons; blocking the Marines that DO spawn, from ever doing anything. It was more noticeable after the towers were down, when all that was left were reapers, and the Gate Ways were not losing any health. I was like "wtf?" Lastly, the Tip for the grenade weapon's icon on the Reaper does say "0" dmg. *shrugs*
And, what I'm saying is, there could be a more shared, standard resource that is used by both the hero's upgrades AS WELL AS the troops, that way player s have to make a choice to either buff their hero or their troops. So, yes, making the Tokens purchasable through GP could be an option. Or, make the Tokens also usable with their skills (which would be interesting, because it could allow heroes to "respec" on the fly, taking Tokens out of their Hero Skills and putting them towards their army at will! lol, that'd be crazy). This is idea isn't "required" by any means. The game's focus of having players deeply influence their supporting armies is the real goal; but I just feel having players choose between godlike heroes, or powerful armies could allow for more diversity and depth in the choices you make. Right now, the leveling experience is extremely linear. The skills are locked in such a way to fit balance well, but as a result, there is little customization. The proposed idea above CAN allow some customization; but hopefully plays on this map's strength of Army Augmentation.
Glad you take feedback so well. You're map is great; being different but not so far unique that it feels too alien to most. I've also always wanted to see DotA style game types feature a lot more with their Armies than they usually do; and yours does. I hope we can game later on! GLHF
Sorry it took so long to reply. On the first idea with expansions. Expand on this some more. I mean if you've played the game with six people. You've noticed how fast paced the game really is. I don't see how these expansions could come into play w/ the current pace of the game. I like the idea though.
As for the reaper dealing 0 dmg. Ya that is a bug, lol. I'll fix that.
I like this idea actually. So basically what I would do, is make it so their is a new augment, called spawn tokens or something and if you choose to put the points into this, it will give you 1 token per point. Now as for respecing on the fly, I don't like that. I would rather it be once you pick, that's what you pick, so it gives more merit to the thought of the choice. Now the only problem I see with this, is now that there is not a static amount of spawn tokens coming in, I feel people are never going to buff their army now and if that is the case it will be reaaaallly easy to kill the starting defenses. How would this work with the current setup? I do like this, but from all the gameplay experience I've played, I don't see how this is viable. I do want to use it though.
Glad you like and I'm always open for new ideas. I actually hate regular dota games. Too boring and not enough choices for me, hence why I made something different ;p
Its all good. I'm currently in the middle of a move. Tough to reply on my end as well XD
Expos would = the need for longer, possibly larger games. I understand your point. Maybe not this project, but another? Who knows. I'd like to see it implemented. I only thought of it because of the use of a base that actually gathers minerals. The only other game I like that is like this is Hero Attack, I believe. Though, you never see that income from the NPC base like yours. Yours is a lot more involved.
Thanks about the reaps XD *thumbs up*
I do see your point. I've thought of it myself. Hence why I mentioned it earlier, admitting that it would take away from the games main differentiating feature; the Army Augmentation. Maybe consider making the Tokens also irreversible? Also, what's your thought on letting Players actually control units that are close to their hero?
DotA games to me are... hybrids without much fusion. It's an RTS where you control one unit. And that, to me is what they literally feel like. It always feels half baked, never completely finished. When I play DotA, I expect the game to feel a LOT more like Diablo's action style game. But, nope. Instead, it's one unit, you never really feel you ARE that "unit", you're just a God wasting a lot of macro/micro potential on a single target with 4 skills (XD). Your map does kind'a break that mode. The RTS feeling is comforted by the fact that you do influence the army. I'm glad you don't mind my opinions. I also hope to game with you soon! glhf
I made a account just so I could reply to this. :3
So far, I just want to say, your map is awesome, my friend and I have been playing this map for the past few days, and we find it fun finding new ways to wipe out the opponents. But we have found a few balancing issues.
First the Protoss heros are a overpowered. Akeru, if timed correctly, and keep the opponent stunned with .5 - 1 seconds between. I feel that he should be nerfed. Of all the heroes I think Terran could use a buff. They can't really do much damage except for their Ultimates. Gregor is, in my opinion, the only one that can do a decent amount to the other teams. All of the Zerg heroes are fine as they are, except for Valac. If players pump a lot into defense, Valac's auto attack becomes very weak.
Second, I found a way to easily dominate the game without even using skills. By using the skills points to get upto 4 argument points, and pumping those into Attack, Health and Defense, you can easily kill any hero. So I suggest adding a certain minimum level.
I hope you take time to read my opinions, and I hope that I can verse you sometime. Thank you.
I like the idea and will consider a way of doing it.
Yes I would like to change how the augments work out, but I don't like having the possibility of no new units added. Also by not adding units that lanes defenses are going to be super weak and there will just be no army to kill and it would be lame.
I don't like the players being able to control the army. You could just target down the defenses and that would be that. I do hear you though about controlling more than one unit. I guess I could add maybe merc units that the player could control? And they cost w/e. What do you think about that? How much should they cost? How strong? etc
Glad you like it. You say protoss heroes plural, but you only mention Akeru. How can he stun lock? Death grip? MAN you should of seen him when his ULT was OP... He could 1 shot any thing on the map. It was retarded lol. He would literally kill everything haha. IT was just stupid. See I disagree about terran being weak. I think really the only one that is kinda MEH is Kristo. I would love to give him some new abilities, but don't have any more to use. Remi is a DPS anti melee machine. All of the heroes abilities are scaled to match one another. So truthfully they all do the same amount of damage, save level 5 of some caster abilities are different. Why does Valac's auto attack become weak? I mean he hits as hard as the others.. OH is it because he attacks twice? That will need to be changed then.
A minimum level on what? The actual conversion ability? What level? Like 10?
Yeah, probably level 10 would be nice. And for Akeru, if you Death Grip, Power Serge, then Death Grip again, etc, you can get them stun locked for quite a while. And I was also talking about Saru or w/e his name was, it seems like his spells seem to do too much damage.
I played your map once.
the income mineral collection just feels wrong, like i think it should not be in that game and have a different form of income (I use bounties in mine since it is a promised steady income). The middle of the map seemed extra?? I think the perks should spawn in the path of the enemies sent units... and then players can use the middle pathways of the map to try and get around the battle and steal the perks.. Just a thought :/
Other than that, Great Game :D I really DO appreciate the random perks that spawn and i especially enjoyed the hero unit. And I can't leave out the upgrades; nice setup.
Interesting that you think it feels wrong. I like the minerals. The first thing players should be buying is workers. Once your maxed on workers you have plenty of money to add units to your army. I added the buffs in the middle so it would accomplish two things. One, give a second use to the middle area and two make it so players had to leave their lane, which would allow the enemy lane to push that lane.
I played a game last night and I will have to agree that Saru is too strong. Going to be nerfing his energy trap ability. Also, I might increase the mineral mining rate cause I never had enough money last night fully saturated with two people to get a t4 unit. Also going to make it so Akeru's surge can't target players? This way he can death grip and really ultimate the players and auto attack. Hopefully this will balance him a lil more.
Mercenaries eh? That could be interesting. Again, I completely understand your view about army control and what not. It's not the FF on the D that I worry about, it's the FF on a hero. Controlling the Armies to do Single Target DPS on some one's hero COULD make heroes obsolete, but that's only if you gave the players THAT much control. The mercenary would make my up coming idea easier.
I'f you've played that "Fleet Command" map, you'll notice how masser units are all controlled by squadron rather than individually. When they attack, they simply A-Move everywhere, there's no real Focus Fire option to the player. A similar idea could be used with the Mercenaries.
I've experimented a lot with the Broodlord's Broodling functions, and you can create some cool freaking stuff with it. It's possible to make whole armies follow a single Hero, but still have those troops be uncontrollable directly. Thus, you could create the Mercenaries to function using the BLs Broodling system. Mercenary squads would anchor to a single leader unit, but never in direct control to the player. This makes it impossible for the player to Focus Fire deliberately unless only one target is nearby to begin with. The only unit in a Mercenary squad that would be under direct tactical control to the player, is the lead unit. That's it. If you keep the squad limit small (say, 3 mercenary squads max), then I'd think that'd be small enough to where even FFing the 3 leader units would'nt hurt to bad.
Merc Squads would be small, ranging from 3-5 units if that are light units (like Marines) to only 1 unit if they are higher tier mimics (like the Tanks).
I'd say they'd be 25 to 50% stronger than normal troops of their respective types, but that's subject to balance. The players actively controlling the squads, no matter how limited we might make that control, is a strength and buff in itself. id say the target in stat balance is to have squads be able to nearly much a hero, but not entirely. A single squad could give a younger hero a run for their money, while end game heroes would find it a challenge to take on a full 3 squads at once.
Their cost would be extravagant I'd assume. Merc squads allow players to fight multiple fronts and be in control ( at least partly) in each of those fronts. A big part of their cost would be in their limit. 3 squads MAX per player. Unlocking a second squad choice should be severely limited by the player level. A level 1 noob shouldn't be able to save up and get 3 squads.
I'd keep it some what limited. Don't want too many choices or you'll really be setting yourself up for a balance night mare. The squads can also be mixed easily with the Brood Ling functions. The only reason why I'd suggest mixing units within a squad, is that units that cannot be controlled won't be available for special abilities, like Stim. So, to make the squads performance more exciting, you'll mix unit types to give them flexibility.
Example Squads (Terran)
War Pig Squad - 4 Marine, 1 Medic (ranged squad that heals itself and nearby allies)
Devil Dog Squad - 1 Marauder, 2 Firebat (a good Melee ranged squad with AoE slowing attacks)
Siege Breaker - 1 Tank (a Tank... enough said)
Made an account just to talk about this game. Lots of potential, but here are some issues I've noticed. I've played the game with a full group of people about 4 times now.
-Gregor is ridiculously overpowered. He is impossible to kill at almost any level of the game by an equally leveled hero. His health and his stun abilities are ridiculous. When me and my friends play the game we let the person who sucks the most play as Gregor because they can usually put up quite a good show against better players just by using him.
-Last tier units in general for protoss and terran are pretty overpowered compared to zerg. Carrier/Thor balls are pretty much GG but ultralisks are pretty easy to handle. Zerg seems pretty underpowered compared to the others as a whole. In every game I've played zerg have rage quit because they get stomped so hard by the other heros/units
-The whole B.O.B. mini game is a complete cluster fuck because of the aforementioned hero imbalances - when someone gets a B.O.B it's a battle of who has the most overpowered hero (Hint: zerg always lose)
I love this game and the concept is amazing. Those are the issues my friends and I have discovered so far and we will continue to play a lot of games to hopefully get this game to the epic potential that it can be. Cheers.