I'm not even going to mention that you just readily accepted Szei's point in a heartbeat after I've spent the past few posts saying the exact same thing. I've resigned myself to the fact that if you cared about what I had to say, you would have said so when I first said it. It obviously can't be because you think I'm wrong, because you think Szei is right and we said the exact same thing. But whatever.
Here's my review of the game itself.
For the most part, it is a Jurassic Park/Kodo Tag clone. Right off the bat, you are given a worker (Imp) and a Dungeon Keeper and are told to go off and build a base, complete with walls, towers, and unit-spawning structures. In fact, the only real difference between this map and WC3's Kodo Tag is that there are "heroes" placed around the map that are much tougher, but provide a much bigger payoff.
That said, there is some of nostalgia in the units themselves being named after units in Dungeon Keeper, even though there is some artistic license in the actual units you can spawn (such as being able to spawn a cleric, even though that is a human unit in DK and therefore only obtainable via torture).
You start off with an amount of gold that you will easily not see again for a while, so there is the possibility of players abusing this and only building the portal building and spawning the best units right off the bat. However, most of those units are equipped to deal with the massive/heroic units you will typically be fighting later on in the game, and are thus ill equipped to be fighting off the early hordes.
There is some praise in a bit of originality in having the worker not be the guy you are trying to protect. That guy is your Dungeon Keeper: a hero that is quite strong in his own right, but when alone can easily be overrun and killed. Back him up with some trolls, on the other hand, and he is an insta-killing machine.
This bit of originality, however, seems to have the two-edged sword aspect in that the worker is invincible, making him the perfect scout and spy when he isn't building stuff which, given the limited number of buildings actually available, can happen a lot. And given the free-for-all feel of this map, this can easily become an unfair advantage over someone with an air-tight defense that the unit actually designed for scouting (Firefly) can't even walk in close proximity of without being smashed to a bloody pulp.
Here's some of the other minor gameplay bugs/annoyances I found:
The Dungeon Keeper's knock back spell doesn't actually knock units back - it merely damages them.
The spine crawlers positioned around the map (usually around hero units) make it extremely hard to kill those heroes early game, the trade-off of the units lost to the spine crawlers not being made up for by killing the heroes they protect. Also, if you start the game near a group of them, they can easily cripple if not kill your Dungeon Keeper.
The limited selection of buildings and spells coupled with the lack of any surprises (nothing unlocks anything else) make the game to be a rather straightforward and therefore boring experience. If I might make a suggestion, make spells/items available as droppable items by heroes. This both gives a sense of exploration and gives a bigger reason to go after the heroes at all. It will also give another reference to your map's namesake.
The unit "Solar" is visible on the minimap and through the fog of war. And when it finally reached me, it killed all of my units in about half a second, leaving my Dungeon Keeper wide open to direct attack. He was dead before I had time to retreat him. That is one seriously broken unit.
There is no clear objective.
There. I played your map and gave my honest opinion about it. It has some potential, but currently holds little as far as something that distinguishes it from all the other Base Survival maps out there, but as this map is still in beta, that isn't necessarily my final opinion.
Oh, and by the way. The map itself holds reference to Dungeon Keeper in names only, but the title "Dungeon Keeper" is flaunted at every turn. Not only that, but you use the bloody Dungeon Keeper logo in both your map preview and the loading screen. So forgive me if I expected the game to be a bit more like Dungeon Keeper and less like what it actually is. Correct that by simply adding a descriptive suffix to your title like ZealNaga, Szei and I have been telling you to do, and you will get far less confusion from your testers and your end consumers.
I can't believe these dudes. So the guy named his map "Dungeon Keeper," what is the big deal?? There is another mod called "Hive Keeper," so what? There are like 15 mods called Zombie Survival/Defence and I see one at the top of the popularity list from time to time.
This is a map review, probably all of you haven't even checked out the map on battle.net yet, and have just chosen to throw remarks about the name alone. If anything, give him an honest review of his game, and then leave a suggestion that maybe he should change the name of his map if it bothers you so much. I don't know what the original dungeon keeper was like but from the description in the OP, this reminded me a little bit of (starcraft) MTG + (warcraft3) Castle Defence, both which were really cool maps. I haven't played it yet, but I doubt anyone else here throwing these negative and way off-topic comments around has either.
Anyway ... does anyone know how you can make it so that a building is prioritized by the AI? For example, I set the priority of a supply depot to 1000 or some absurd number, yet either way enemies do not attack them first. What have I done wrong?
I'm not even going to mention that you just readily accepted Szei's point in a heartbeat after I've spent the past few posts saying the exact same thing. I've resigned myself to the fact that if you cared about what I had to say, you would have said so when I first said it. It obviously can't be because you think I'm wrong, because you think Szei is right and we said the exact same thing. But whatever.
Here's my review of the game itself.
For the most part, it is a Jurassic Park/Kodo Tag clone. Right off the bat, you are given a worker (Imp) and a Dungeon Keeper and are told to go off and build a base, complete with walls, towers, and unit-spawning structures. In fact, the only real difference between this map and WC3's Kodo Tag is that there are "heroes" placed around the map that are much tougher, but provide a much bigger payoff.
That said, there is some of nostalgia in the units themselves being named after units in Dungeon Keeper, even though there is some artistic license in the actual units you can spawn (such as being able to spawn a cleric, even though that is a human unit in DK and therefore only obtainable via torture).
You start off with an amount of gold that you will easily not see again for a while, so there is the possibility of players abusing this and only building the portal building and spawning the best units right off the bat. However, most of those units are equipped to deal with the massive/heroic units you will typically be fighting later on in the game, and are thus ill equipped to be fighting off the early hordes.
There is some praise in a bit of originality in having the worker not be the guy you are trying to protect. That guy is your Dungeon Keeper: a hero that is quite strong in his own right, but when alone can easily be overrun and killed. Back him up with some trolls, on the other hand, and he is an insta-killing machine.
This bit of originality, however, seems to have the two-edged sword aspect in that the worker is invincible, making him the perfect scout and spy when he isn't building stuff which, given the limited number of buildings actually available, can happen a lot. And given the free-for-all feel of this map, this can easily become an unfair advantage over someone with an air-tight defense that the unit actually designed for scouting (Firefly) can't even walk in close proximity of without being smashed to a bloody pulp.
Here's some of the other minor gameplay bugs/annoyances I found:
The Dungeon Keeper's knock back spell doesn't actually knock units back - it merely damages them.
The spine crawlers positioned around the map (usually around hero units) make it extremely hard to kill those heroes early game, the trade-off of the units lost to the spine crawlers not being made up for by killing the heroes they protect. Also, if you start the game near a group of them, they can easily cripple if not kill your Dungeon Keeper.
The limited selection of buildings and spells coupled with the lack of any surprises (nothing unlocks anything else) make the game to be a rather straightforward and therefore boring experience. If I might make a suggestion, make spells/items available as droppable items by heroes. This both gives a sense of exploration and gives a bigger reason to go after the heroes at all. It will also give another reference to your map's namesake.
The unit "Solar" is visible on the minimap and through the fog of war. And when it finally reached me, it killed all of my units in about half a second, leaving my Dungeon Keeper wide open to direct attack. He was dead before I had time to retreat him. That is one seriously broken unit.
There is no clear objective.
There. I played your map and gave my honest opinion about it. It has some potential, but currently holds little as far as something that distinguishes it from all the other Base Survival maps out there, but as this map is still in beta, that isn't necessarily my final opinion.
Oh, and by the way. The map itself holds reference to Dungeon Keeper in names only, but the title "Dungeon Keeper" is flaunted at every turn. Not only that, but you use the bloody Dungeon Keeper logo in both your map preview and the loading screen. So forgive me if I expected the game to be a bit more like Dungeon Keeper and less like what it actually is. Correct that by simply adding a descriptive suffix to your title like ZealNaga, Szei and I have been telling you to do, and you will get far less confusion from your testers and your end consumers.
I am trying to figure out a way that items/spells can be dropped from creatures while still being balanced in a sort of PvP map. I'm thinking they would need to have a 100% drop rate or provide some sort of very minor bonus, or maybe there could be a limit on the number of items that drop per player.
I also need to watch this tutorial i found on YouTube on how to do item drops because I don't know very much about the editor still ...
Oh, and the Spinecrawlers are there to prevent players from building turrets at the spawn points. I fixed that issue by reducing their damage but giving them a large bonus vs structures. I also never played Warcraft so I have no idea what Kodo Tag is.
Hey Pottfish looks like your getting some flak for the name of your map.....
FYI when people on here say things you dont wanna hear over something so miniscule I suggest you just ignor them..... otherwise you risk getting flamed.
Though I think its a good idea to make a claim on your own name for your map. Such as your "Dungeon Wars" or what ever you decided to change it too.
Good Luck... if people with under 500 posts flame you just ignor them =)
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When I try a game called Lord of the Rings, I do not expect something dedicated to the movie
...LOL.
Quote:
If I had the lost the "war", and it is sad that you think this is a "war", then the map would
have a different name. As far as I know the map is still called Dungeon
Keeper.
Not anymore... So we were only a few to give the advice but we were right, weren't we? The voice of majority just tells you to remain a sheep in the flock, I personally think it doesn't serve your purpose. Keeping the name implies being amongst the few maps that nobody will ever care about because there are already "monsters" in place. If your project is different from those "monsters", name it otherwise. Pretty simple for anyone to understand and I'm glad you did.
Ah haha. Ok. I WILL test this map. Oh wait! Does that mean he's won the
war now? Or is it a tie? And oh my! This is a war in the first place!
And to think you said Pottfish was making a big deal out of it.
"War" is just a word here. My point being that he shouldn't deny every advice given because it could only end in one way: he'll get flamed. And a few members in the forums will probably disagree with each other, in the process. "War" is a strong word but the idea is still here though...
Quote:
How is that disrespect? He's not saying,
"My map is going to be better than your map!"
The name of his map was confusing for 2 reasons:
- it could be mistaken for the original game (Dungeon Keeper)
- it could be mistaken for the SC2 mod (Hive Keeper)
Keeping the same name despite all the advices which went against the idea is just like saying "I don't care about what the others did, I don't care about your advices, because my map has nothing to do with them anyway". Don't tell me you don't see what's wrong with that...
Quote:
If you feel your advice is valid and Pottfish still will not take it, then forget about
it. You tried to help him and he refused. No need to pursue the matter.
Fair enough. ;)
By the way, I would probably have tested his map anyway if I were in NA.
I can't believe these dudes. So the guy named his map "Dungeon Keeper," what is the big deal?? There is another mod called "Hive Keeper," so what? There are like 15 mods called Zombie Survival/Defence and I see one at the top of the popularity list from time to time.
15 maps with the same kind of name just proves lack of creativity. One of them being on top of the popularity list doesn't mean anything but map being boosted. What's wrong with having the same name is that you are amongst X other maps, mostly low quality maps by the way, so BNet users won't even care about yours.
if people with under 500 posts flame you just ignor them =)
High number of posts never was a proof of cleverness and/or kindness. I know I get offended pretty easily by a few things, but it doesn't mean my advices are shit, and it doesn't mean I'm trolling either. As far as I know, I've given feedback and helped a lot of people here since I subscribed (and before that, on other forums), even if I use my own words and can be rough sometimes I don't think I've been such a nuisance so far with barely 200+ posts...
It's time to drop it, dude. He got the point when Svei joined the "war", and I gave the guy what he wanted with an actual review of his game. Anything from this point onward really is just flaming.
If I had the lost the "war", and it is sad that you think this is a "war", then the map would
have a different name. As far as I know the map is still called Dungeon
Keeper.
Not anymore... So we were only a few to give the advice but we were right, weren't we? The voice of majority just tells you to remain a sheep in the flock, I personally think it doesn't serve your purpose. Keeping the name implies being amongst the few maps that nobody will ever care about because there are already "monsters" in place. If your project is different from those "monsters", name it otherwise. Pretty simple for anyone to understand and I'm glad you did.
"War" is just a word here. My point being that he shouldn't deny every advice given because it could only end in one way: he'll get flamed. And a few members in the forums will probably disagree with each other, in the process. "War" is a strong word but the idea is still here though... Quote:
How is that disrespect? He's not saying,
"My map is going to be better than your map!"
The name of his map was confusing for 2 reasons:
- it could be mistaken for the original game (Dungeon Keeper)
- it could be mistaken for the SC2 mod (Hive Keeper)
Keeping the same name despite all the advices which went against the idea is just like saying "I don't care about what the others did, I don't care about your advices, because my map has nothing to do with them anyway". Don't tell me you don't see what's wrong with that... Quote:
If you feel your advice is valid and Pottfish still will not take it, then forget about
it. You tried to help him and he refused. No need to pursue the matter.
Fair enough. ;)
By the way, I would probably have tested his map anyway if I were in NA.
15 maps with the same kind of name just proves lack of creativity. One of them being on top of the popularity list doesn't mean anything but map being boosted. What's wrong with having the same name is that you are amongst X other maps, mostly low quality maps by the way, so BNet users won't even care about yours.
High number of posts never was a proof of cleverness and/or kindness. I know I get offended pretty easily by a few things, but it doesn't mean my advices are shit, and it doesn't mean I'm trolling either. As far as I know, I've given feedback and helped a lot of people here since I subscribed (and before that, on other forums), even if I use my own words and can be rough sometimes I don't think I've been such a nuisance so far with barely 200+ posts...
Think about it like this: two grand master ninjas are fighting over a final slice of pizza, but then in the middle of their epic duel with kicks, jumps, and shuriken throwing, one ninja says, "Actually, I'm not hungry anymore."
Think about it like this: two grand master ninjas are fighting over a final slice of pizza, but then in the middle of their epic duel with kicks, jumps, and shuriken throwning, one ninja says, "Actually, I'm not hungry anymore."
So, I was fooling around with the data editor and finally got a nice powerup system working. They have a chance to drop off any enemy but a greater chance to drop off special enemies. Killing an enemy Dungeon Keeper will drop one of each powerup. They all provide a 40-second buff to the first Keeper that walks over them and are color-coded so players know which buff to expect.
Thanks for all the feedback, guys. I changed a lot of things and now the map is out of beta. Actually, I got way more feedback from my REAL ID friends, but you were all helpful, too.
I learned a lot about the editor. Perhaps one day I will make something else.
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@Pottfish: Go
I'm not even going to mention that you just readily accepted Szei's point in a heartbeat after I've spent the past few posts saying the exact same thing. I've resigned myself to the fact that if you cared about what I had to say, you would have said so when I first said it. It obviously can't be because you think I'm wrong, because you think Szei is right and we said the exact same thing. But whatever.
Here's my review of the game itself.
For the most part, it is a Jurassic Park/Kodo Tag clone. Right off the bat, you are given a worker (Imp) and a Dungeon Keeper and are told to go off and build a base, complete with walls, towers, and unit-spawning structures. In fact, the only real difference between this map and WC3's Kodo Tag is that there are "heroes" placed around the map that are much tougher, but provide a much bigger payoff.
That said, there is some of nostalgia in the units themselves being named after units in Dungeon Keeper, even though there is some artistic license in the actual units you can spawn (such as being able to spawn a cleric, even though that is a human unit in DK and therefore only obtainable via torture).
You start off with an amount of gold that you will easily not see again for a while, so there is the possibility of players abusing this and only building the portal building and spawning the best units right off the bat. However, most of those units are equipped to deal with the massive/heroic units you will typically be fighting later on in the game, and are thus ill equipped to be fighting off the early hordes.
There is some praise in a bit of originality in having the worker not be the guy you are trying to protect. That guy is your Dungeon Keeper: a hero that is quite strong in his own right, but when alone can easily be overrun and killed. Back him up with some trolls, on the other hand, and he is an insta-killing machine.
This bit of originality, however, seems to have the two-edged sword aspect in that the worker is invincible, making him the perfect scout and spy when he isn't building stuff which, given the limited number of buildings actually available, can happen a lot. And given the free-for-all feel of this map, this can easily become an unfair advantage over someone with an air-tight defense that the unit actually designed for scouting (Firefly) can't even walk in close proximity of without being smashed to a bloody pulp.
Here's some of the other minor gameplay bugs/annoyances I found:
There. I played your map and gave my honest opinion about it. It has some potential, but currently holds little as far as something that distinguishes it from all the other Base Survival maps out there, but as this map is still in beta, that isn't necessarily my final opinion.
Oh, and by the way. The map itself holds reference to Dungeon Keeper in names only, but the title "Dungeon Keeper" is flaunted at every turn. Not only that, but you use the bloody Dungeon Keeper logo in both your map preview and the loading screen. So forgive me if I expected the game to be a bit more like Dungeon Keeper and less like what it actually is. Correct that by simply adding a descriptive suffix to your title like ZealNaga, Szei and I have been telling you to do, and you will get far less confusion from your testers and your end consumers.
I can't believe these dudes. So the guy named his map "Dungeon Keeper," what is the big deal?? There is another mod called "Hive Keeper," so what? There are like 15 mods called Zombie Survival/Defence and I see one at the top of the popularity list from time to time.
This is a map review, probably all of you haven't even checked out the map on battle.net yet, and have just chosen to throw remarks about the name alone. If anything, give him an honest review of his game, and then leave a suggestion that maybe he should change the name of his map if it bothers you so much. I don't know what the original dungeon keeper was like but from the description in the OP, this reminded me a little bit of (starcraft) MTG + (warcraft3) Castle Defence, both which were really cool maps. I haven't played it yet, but I doubt anyone else here throwing these negative and way off-topic comments around has either.
@Zsteven44: Go
Did you even read the post immediately above yours? Or any of the others for that matter?
It's called Dungeon Wars.
Anyway ... does anyone know how you can make it so that a building is prioritized by the AI? For example, I set the priority of a supply depot to 1000 or some absurd number, yet either way enemies do not attack them first. What have I done wrong?
I am trying to figure out a way that items/spells can be dropped from creatures while still being balanced in a sort of PvP map. I'm thinking they would need to have a 100% drop rate or provide some sort of very minor bonus, or maybe there could be a limit on the number of items that drop per player.
I also need to watch this tutorial i found on YouTube on how to do item drops because I don't know very much about the editor still ...
Oh, and the Spinecrawlers are there to prevent players from building turrets at the spawn points. I fixed that issue by reducing their damage but giving them a large bonus vs structures. I also never played Warcraft so I have no idea what Kodo Tag is.
@Pottfish: Go
Hey Pottfish looks like your getting some flak for the name of your map.....
FYI when people on here say things you dont wanna hear over something so miniscule I suggest you just ignor them..... otherwise you risk getting flamed.
Though I think its a good idea to make a claim on your own name for your map. Such as your "Dungeon Wars" or what ever you decided to change it too.
Good Luck... if people with under 500 posts flame you just ignor them =)
...LOL.
Not anymore... So we were only a few to give the advice but we were right, weren't we? The voice of majority just tells you to remain a sheep in the flock, I personally think it doesn't serve your purpose. Keeping the name implies being amongst the few maps that nobody will ever care about because there are already "monsters" in place. If your project is different from those "monsters", name it otherwise. Pretty simple for anyone to understand and I'm glad you did.
Yeah... Actually, let's ban everyone who disagree with someone. They are so evil. Burn the witches!
Oh wait... Aren't we all witches?
"War" is just a word here. My point being that he shouldn't deny every advice given because it could only end in one way: he'll get flamed. And a few members in the forums will probably disagree with each other, in the process. "War" is a strong word but the idea is still here though...
The name of his map was confusing for 2 reasons:
- it could be mistaken for the original game (Dungeon Keeper)
- it could be mistaken for the SC2 mod (Hive Keeper)
Keeping the same name despite all the advices which went against the idea is just like saying "I don't care about what the others did, I don't care about your advices, because my map has nothing to do with them anyway". Don't tell me you don't see what's wrong with that...
Fair enough. ;)
By the way, I would probably have tested his map anyway if I were in NA.
15 maps with the same kind of name just proves lack of creativity. One of them being on top of the popularity list doesn't mean anything but map being boosted. What's wrong with having the same name is that you are amongst X other maps, mostly low quality maps by the way, so BNet users won't even care about yours.
High number of posts never was a proof of cleverness and/or kindness. I know I get offended pretty easily by a few things, but it doesn't mean my advices are shit, and it doesn't mean I'm trolling either. As far as I know, I've given feedback and helped a lot of people here since I subscribed (and before that, on other forums), even if I use my own words and can be rough sometimes I don't think I've been such a nuisance so far with barely 200+ posts...
@ZealNaga: Go
It's time to drop it, dude. He got the point when Svei joined the "war", and I gave the guy what he wanted with an actual review of his game. Anything from this point onward really is just flaming.
Think about it like this: two grand master ninjas are fighting over a final slice of pizza, but then in the middle of their epic duel with kicks, jumps, and shuriken throwing, one ninja says, "Actually, I'm not hungry anymore."
I love this analogy.
So, I was fooling around with the data editor and finally got a nice powerup system working. They have a chance to drop off any enemy but a greater chance to drop off special enemies. Killing an enemy Dungeon Keeper will drop one of each powerup. They all provide a 40-second buff to the first Keeper that walks over them and are color-coded so players know which buff to expect.
LOL, i take credit for starting this : )
Thanks for all the feedback, guys. I changed a lot of things and now the map is out of beta. Actually, I got way more feedback from my REAL ID friends, but you were all helpful, too.
I learned a lot about the editor. Perhaps one day I will make something else.