You gave retards who play this miserable fuck fest of map ability to build unlimited barracks and spawn unlimited troops. HAPPY? YOU FUCKING HAPPY? Remove ability to buy and place barracks PERIOD
No, it was just to illustrate what the problem is. I already wrote that you can mass hundreds of troops (to the point where lag is so bad, players get like 2 fps).
You gave retards who play this miserable fuck fest ability to build unlimited barracks. HAPPY? YOU FUCKING HAPPY YOU? Remove ability to buy and place barracks PERIOD
I disagree, building barracks is a necessary mechanic to secure a win. But placing should only be possible where you are at least at risk of losing them to a coordinated attack, like it's the case if you build them outside your base.
Shut the fuck up and leave this forum. After words like this i can see you have jack shit of an understanding WHAT the SIZE of the problem was.
All those barracks were placed outside of the base. There were 12 of them on the north and 12 of them on the south and about 9 of them in the middle. Each bunch built behind a wall of at least 25 missle turrets. All upcoming forces were smashed instantly while outgoing forces covered turrets and whacked just by the numbers.
And you telling to leave barracks? Fuck you and your "necessary mechanic".
I can tell you: it's your fault for letting it come this far. You should have realized there were barracks and went in when there were only a few. To build all these barracks, how many waves of income did it take for them to build it up? How many waves of income did you not do anything to stop them from doing it? I play against the black hole all the time (or rather "was" playing, he moves me into his team because he is scared of me - true story!), he leaves the game once you destroyed two or three of his initial barracks because he realizes this is gonna fail.
And since there are multiple ways to attack barracks that are build outside the base and the ways leading there are pretty wide, it's actually not hard to go in and destroy them. Your "OMG remove cloak" cloaky tanks are a real help as they don't get shot by the troops.
You are a bad player and blame the mechanic for your suck (I can tell from your equipment in the screen shots, as well) instead of sucking it up, harden the f up, and learn from your mistakes.
Learn to play, THEN come back and tell me again how that it broken because every time I play, this does not happen, EXCEPT when build on the high ground plateau. That's what's broken.
Uhuh. Now listen to me, you pompous "know all" fuck. How in the love of god would players NOT abuse barracks? You tell me it is a secure mechanic - go back and play your piece of shit known as marine arena.
Every moba game has it's quirk, but relative rules are the same. Ability to build barracks is not a rule but an abuse which leads to lag and winner being not one who's the most outfitted or skilled, but one who has high-end pc + 1gbit connection to withstand lag generated per movement of, say 12000 units simultaneously on starcraft II engine (if that were springrts engine that would've been fine because it optimized. Not this one).
Don't tell me about my inventory, sucker. It wasn't the point, and your retardcy stretches so far to completely miss the obvious - LAG. Both graphical AND networking lag combined. This feature allows players to down mid-end/low-end pc opponents == this isn't fair. Game stops being about skill and starts being about 'who's daddy got biggest cash amount'. And that's a balance issue and complete overlook of the author.
Whenever you can build something which allows spawn of endless forces - that's where they hit you. I repeat - i had 0.1 maybe 0.3 fps maximum at all time those barracks from both sides were spamming forces. You telling me that's fair? I virtually were unable to run down the street to pick up my rainbow laser i left near the shop because i was constructing missle system. You telling me that's fair and feature should be left.
Go to hell, You deserve no recognition or resemblance of a right to compose coherent messages on this forum. Not like you can, but still.
@smoke_TH: I only ever see you scream for "remove that!". Come up with an alternative or just point what the flaw is because removing a seemingly broken feature is like hitting a nail with sledge hammer.
Also, you'd be taken much more seriously if you wouldn't insult people who have a different opinion.
I still stand by my statement that it was your teams fault to let it come this far but I also see how it's important to restrain lag to the point the game stays playable for all parties involved.
So I will admit that limiting the maximum number of barracks for the sake of keeping playability and prevent lag might be a good idea. But completely removing them is a pretty bad idea. The number has to be high enough to leave "mass barracks" a viable tactic while preventing a complete lagfest for the players.
I did not know that blocking units and releasing them in one blow is a current method. Definitely a problem that has to be solved. But smoke_TH: Seriously, if your opponent has the time and minerals to build about 24 barracks and 50 missile turrets (which I doubt), something other has gone seriously wrong in your game. Nevertheless these ganging up of troops has to be stopped.
I have some ideas to prevent this but I gues it wont be out tomorrow or at least I cant promise because I'm busy for some time. I prevented building up there in the last hotfix (did I miss an area?).
Please tell me: are there other places where this tactic is used or would it be enough to prevent people from building up there? I will think of a general way to prevent too big unit packs though. But barracks are part of the map - there will be rather more than less options to spawn your own npc troops in the future.
Now that I have player a couple of games I must say I dislike the extra spawns. A lot, actually. It's very rare now for a pure "tank vs. tank" engagement to happen, instead there are always some troops around which makes killing the opponents tank purely based on luck.
It also indirectly buffed the stunning abilities as now basically every time you get stunned there are enemy troops either already around around or just arriving during the stun duration so once again it you vs. tank and troops instead of tank vs. tank.
The decrease of the armor level of higher tier tanks has indirectly buffed zappers, players are already starting to abuse this.
I also don't like the frequency outposts change owner. It's seems to easy now to capture outposts.
The spawn of additional troops seemed to be a good idea, but I think it didn't work out for the better.
I also just realized that troop upgrades are just too expensive. Instead of upgrading for over 2000 I can just build two more barracks.
So I came with a possible solution to the barracks problem: make the next barracks more expensive than the one before. The main problem is that you get a lot of money in the endgame and with one wave of income you can build 3 more barracks.
And it would be in line with everything else costing more (equipment upgrades become more expensive with higher levels, troop upgrades also).
What do you think?
I will try to confirm that it's impossible to build on the plateau.
Thanks again for your efforts.
Exhausting :-D First there were complains that there is to much idle time between waves. Now there is more "action" and its not right either :-D
But I agree.. these are problems I understand. I also favor the concept of more dedicated waves. So I may sync the waves again. But let the actual method be there some time and see whats the conclusion after a few days.
Why are zappers buffed? The armor decrease was just marginal!?
Having played a few more games by now I have to say I am really annoyed by the additional spawn. Real tank vs. tank combat only happens off the three main ways. You only need to retreat a couple of seconds to walk into the next group of troop from your team which usually queues the attacker to stop.
Also if your push back into an outpost you accumulate so many tankbusters that it's impossible for the opponent's team to interrupt. Would basically be suicide.
I also found another bug: if you kill a capturing enemy while you are in the circle with him/her/it the countdown does not stop, you are continuing to capture for them.
Also, stats still don't load reliably.
Edit: it seems like stats aren't saved at all. Everyone starts over at zero at the beginning of each game...
Also, troops get a lot of player kills. There simply are too many of them, they steal too many kills. It gets frustrating.
Also they spawn so often now, that you can start out going barracks safely as the regular spawns alone prevent players from ever getting there.
Also, "mortars" is now the name of the game. Nothing kills troops faster from a safe distance and still gets the occasional "lucky kill" on a tank who tries to hide in a group of troops. They are also OP combined with any stun skill, as you cannot shoot back if you don't have mortars yourself.
A few higher level mortars strip you completely off your 2000 shield HP from splash damage alone, before you even fired a single shot or lasers or rockets - not even talking zappers. THEN you get stunned and just die.
The easiest solution, as far as I can see, is to simply remove the additional spawns. They just made the whole experience worse.
- they are everywhere
- they steal kills
- they mass up way too fast
- there are so many that mortars became viable again (like seriously, wtf o.O)
- barracks first is thing now
To compensate I suggest a decrease in spawning time. It may have been serendipity but in retrospective the original count of troops was about right. They were there when you needed them but left enough space for tank vs. tank battles (incidentally, the name of the map).
1. Please fix the "Stats" Bug. Every 1-2 time we start a new game we have reseted stats.
2. Please restricts the number of barracks in any one instance. It can not be, it just comes in there endgame, who has baracks more. Hero v Hero has no longer any meaning.
You think that was bad?
http://screencast.com/t/1SxZu7m7X
http://screencast.com/t/wxXC87I5R
http://screencast.com/t/2oeYbDNNh
let's see. at last screenshot that was 1/16 of what was marching towards our base. I had 0.1 fps. My team mates had 0.4 with 1 660 and 6 fps with 2x titan sli.
You gave retards who play this miserable fuck fest of map ability to build unlimited barracks and spawn unlimited troops. HAPPY? YOU FUCKING HAPPY? Remove ability to buy and place barracks PERIOD
No, it was just to illustrate what the problem is. I already wrote that you can mass hundreds of troops (to the point where lag is so bad, players get like 2 fps).
I disagree, building barracks is a necessary mechanic to secure a win. But placing should only be possible where you are at least at risk of losing them to a coordinated attack, like it's the case if you build them outside your base.
m00h
[€dit] Typos [/€dit]
@mOOhkOOh: Go
Shut the fuck up and leave this forum. After words like this i can see you have jack shit of an understanding WHAT the SIZE of the problem was.
All those barracks were placed outside of the base. There were 12 of them on the north and 12 of them on the south and about 9 of them in the middle. Each bunch built behind a wall of at least 25 missle turrets. All upcoming forces were smashed instantly while outgoing forces covered turrets and whacked just by the numbers.
And you telling to leave barracks? Fuck you and your "necessary mechanic".
Well look who is really mannered today.
I can tell you: it's your fault for letting it come this far. You should have realized there were barracks and went in when there were only a few. To build all these barracks, how many waves of income did it take for them to build it up? How many waves of income did you not do anything to stop them from doing it? I play against the black hole all the time (or rather "was" playing, he moves me into his team because he is scared of me - true story!), he leaves the game once you destroyed two or three of his initial barracks because he realizes this is gonna fail.
And since there are multiple ways to attack barracks that are build outside the base and the ways leading there are pretty wide, it's actually not hard to go in and destroy them. Your "OMG remove cloak" cloaky tanks are a real help as they don't get shot by the troops.
You are a bad player and blame the mechanic for your suck (I can tell from your equipment in the screen shots, as well) instead of sucking it up, harden the f up, and learn from your mistakes. Learn to play, THEN come back and tell me again how that it broken because every time I play, this does not happen, EXCEPT when build on the high ground plateau. That's what's broken.
m00h
@mOOhkOOh: Go
Uhuh. Now listen to me, you pompous "know all" fuck. How in the love of god would players NOT abuse barracks? You tell me it is a secure mechanic - go back and play your piece of shit known as marine arena.
Every moba game has it's quirk, but relative rules are the same. Ability to build barracks is not a rule but an abuse which leads to lag and winner being not one who's the most outfitted or skilled, but one who has high-end pc + 1gbit connection to withstand lag generated per movement of, say 12000 units simultaneously on starcraft II engine (if that were springrts engine that would've been fine because it optimized. Not this one).
Don't tell me about my inventory, sucker. It wasn't the point, and your retardcy stretches so far to completely miss the obvious - LAG. Both graphical AND networking lag combined. This feature allows players to down mid-end/low-end pc opponents == this isn't fair. Game stops being about skill and starts being about 'who's daddy got biggest cash amount'. And that's a balance issue and complete overlook of the author.
Whenever you can build something which allows spawn of endless forces - that's where they hit you. I repeat - i had 0.1 maybe 0.3 fps maximum at all time those barracks from both sides were spamming forces. You telling me that's fair? I virtually were unable to run down the street to pick up my rainbow laser i left near the shop because i was constructing missle system. You telling me that's fair and feature should be left.
Go to hell, You deserve no recognition or resemblance of a right to compose coherent messages on this forum. Not like you can, but still.
Fumus.
Thanks for the good laugh, you made my day!
m00h
@smoke_TH: I only ever see you scream for "remove that!". Come up with an alternative or just point what the flaw is because removing a seemingly broken feature is like hitting a nail with sledge hammer.
Also, you'd be taken much more seriously if you wouldn't insult people who have a different opinion.
I still stand by my statement that it was your teams fault to let it come this far but I also see how it's important to restrain lag to the point the game stays playable for all parties involved. So I will admit that limiting the maximum number of barracks for the sake of keeping playability and prevent lag might be a good idea. But completely removing them is a pretty bad idea. The number has to be high enough to leave "mass barracks" a viable tactic while preventing a complete lagfest for the players.
m00h
hm okay enough of it. :-D
I did not know that blocking units and releasing them in one blow is a current method. Definitely a problem that has to be solved. But smoke_TH: Seriously, if your opponent has the time and minerals to build about 24 barracks and 50 missile turrets (which I doubt), something other has gone seriously wrong in your game. Nevertheless these ganging up of troops has to be stopped.
I have some ideas to prevent this but I gues it wont be out tomorrow or at least I cant promise because I'm busy for some time. I prevented building up there in the last hotfix (did I miss an area?).
Please tell me: are there other places where this tactic is used or would it be enough to prevent people from building up there? I will think of a general way to prevent too big unit packs though. But barracks are part of the map - there will be rather more than less options to spawn your own npc troops in the future.
Now that I have player a couple of games I must say I dislike the extra spawns. A lot, actually. It's very rare now for a pure "tank vs. tank" engagement to happen, instead there are always some troops around which makes killing the opponents tank purely based on luck. It also indirectly buffed the stunning abilities as now basically every time you get stunned there are enemy troops either already around around or just arriving during the stun duration so once again it you vs. tank and troops instead of tank vs. tank.
The decrease of the armor level of higher tier tanks has indirectly buffed zappers, players are already starting to abuse this.
I also don't like the frequency outposts change owner. It's seems to easy now to capture outposts. The spawn of additional troops seemed to be a good idea, but I think it didn't work out for the better.
I also just realized that troop upgrades are just too expensive. Instead of upgrading for over 2000 I can just build two more barracks. So I came with a possible solution to the barracks problem: make the next barracks more expensive than the one before. The main problem is that you get a lot of money in the endgame and with one wave of income you can build 3 more barracks. And it would be in line with everything else costing more (equipment upgrades become more expensive with higher levels, troop upgrades also).
What do you think?
I will try to confirm that it's impossible to build on the plateau. Thanks again for your efforts.
m00h
Exhausting :-D First there were complains that there is to much idle time between waves. Now there is more "action" and its not right either :-D
But I agree.. these are problems I understand. I also favor the concept of more dedicated waves. So I may sync the waves again. But let the actual method be there some time and see whats the conclusion after a few days.
Why are zappers buffed? The armor decrease was just marginal!?
I will have to look into it further, but they feel stronger than before against the higher tier tanks...
m00h
Having played a few more games by now I have to say I am really annoyed by the additional spawn. Real tank vs. tank combat only happens off the three main ways. You only need to retreat a couple of seconds to walk into the next group of troop from your team which usually queues the attacker to stop. Also if your push back into an outpost you accumulate so many tankbusters that it's impossible for the opponent's team to interrupt. Would basically be suicide.
I also found another bug: if you kill a capturing enemy while you are in the circle with him/her/it the countdown does not stop, you are continuing to capture for them.
Also, stats still don't load reliably. Edit: it seems like stats aren't saved at all. Everyone starts over at zero at the beginning of each game...
m00h
Also, troops get a lot of player kills. There simply are too many of them, they steal too many kills. It gets frustrating.
Also they spawn so often now, that you can start out going barracks safely as the regular spawns alone prevent players from ever getting there.
Also, "mortars" is now the name of the game. Nothing kills troops faster from a safe distance and still gets the occasional "lucky kill" on a tank who tries to hide in a group of troops. They are also OP combined with any stun skill, as you cannot shoot back if you don't have mortars yourself.
A few higher level mortars strip you completely off your 2000 shield HP from splash damage alone, before you even fired a single shot or lasers or rockets - not even talking zappers. THEN you get stunned and just die.
The easiest solution, as far as I can see, is to simply remove the additional spawns. They just made the whole experience worse.
- they are everywhere
- they steal kills
- they mass up way too fast
- there are so many that mortars became viable again (like seriously, wtf o.O)
- barracks first is thing now
To compensate I suggest a decrease in spawning time. It may have been serendipity but in retrospective the original count of troops was about right. They were there when you needed them but left enough space for tank vs. tank battles (incidentally, the name of the map).
m00h
@ Freddy
1. Please fix the "Stats" Bug. Every 1-2 time we start a new game we have reseted stats. 2. Please restricts the number of barracks in any one instance. It can not be, it just comes in there endgame, who has baracks more. Hero v Hero has no longer any meaning.
Great mod and cheers
@mOOhkOOh: Go
Yea you see - exactly what i was saying.
Yeah, since the update it's gotten bad so my apologies to you.
m00h
@mOOhkOOh: Go
Yea no problem. I were too big of a foul mouth in the first place. Sorry about that.
New update should be online.
Can anyone confirm that saves still do not work?
Before last two upgrades it was very fun game - now it unplayable :(
@Trieva: Go 1 - autocannon need to be best vs armor
2 - lasers vs armor -70%