@ All: sorry i write in german, its much better for me to say what i think.
@ Freddy : Ich schreibe auf deutsch, in englisch wäre es fehlerhaft und ich habe keine Lust zu übersetzen^^
- Das Problem liegt schon lange in der 1v2, 2v3, 3v4 Situation. Der Vorteil des kleineren Teams ist etwas zu gross durch die Menge zusätzlichen Geldes.
Ich empfehle die Menge des Geldes das die übrigen Mitspieler durch den geleavten Spieler erhalten prozentual an zu passen. Ich weiss nicht ob es jetzt 100% sind, aber ich nehme jetzt diese 100% als Beispiel. Ich weiss das balancen nie eine leichte Sache ist, was nicht selten in ein zu gut gemeintes Balancing gipfelt (daher zu extrem in die Gegenrichtung). Ich schätze diesen Punkt so ein, dass man bei diesem Beispielwert erst einmal von 100% auf ca. 66.6% gehen würde. Also etwa um einen Drittel kürzen.
Bei einem Unterschied von 2 Spielern sehe ich einigermassen einen Ausgleich. Das Team welches in Überzahl ist, kann den Vorteil des kleineren Teams ausgleichen, durch das halten der Outposts. Bei einem 1 Spieler Unterschied jedoch, kann ich diesen Überzahlvorteil nicht feststellen. Wodurch sich bei nur einem Spieler Unterschied kein Balancing einstellt. Also wäre mein Vorschlag zum Beispiel so, das bei einem Spieler Unterschied 1/3 weniger Mineral ausbezahlt wird als bisher, jedoch bei 2 Spieler Unterschied beim 2. Spieler der bisherigen Wert( so wie es bis jetzt war) ausgezahlt wird.
- Durch die Massnahme bezüglich teurer werden der Barracks, hat sich im Falle einer nummerischen Ungleichheit das Unbalancing noch mehr verschärft. weil bisher die Barracken eine Möglichkeit war, im überzahl spielenden Team mit ebensolchen entgegen zu wirken. Jetzt kann es aber gut sein, das gute Spieler im in Überzahl spielenden Team keine Chance haben zu gewinnen, gegen ein Team von Noobs. Meine Empfehlung lautet ungefähr, dass die ersten 4 Barracken eines Teams die selben Kosten haben wie bisher. Jede weitere Barracke sollte im Preis jeweils um etwa 500 Mineral steigen. Werden Barracken zerstört, wird der Preis angepasst. Es kann nicht sein, dass ein Team beispielsweise 10 Barracken hatte, alle zerstört werden, und die 1. neu gebaute Brracke dann bereits mehrere Tausend kostet.
- Ich hoffe die Stats laden blad einmal für jederman wie sie sollten:)
- Boom, Doomhammer, Predator -Bug wurde bereits genannt
- Einen Kickstart Mod würde ich ebenfalls begrüssen, jedoch nicht zu extrem. Zum Beispiel etwa 800 Mineral mehr zu Beginn. Das reicht. Und vielleicht jeweils etwa 10% weniger lang bis next Mineral. Jedoch das Income durch das halten der Outposts nicht noch zusätzlich erhöhen.
Issues with buying tanks is a known bug of the latest patch. Will be fixed about tomorrow.
Yes, barracks now get more expensive the more your team buys. And yes, they wont get cheaper if existing ones are destroyed. So you have to protect them. The amount of cost increase is just a first try. Any experience with it? To high? To low?
@HeadcrashX: Go
(and I hope its okay that I answer in english because thats easier for others who might want to read it)
Did not understand all of your thoughts regarding income balance. So your suggestion is that the team with less players get 1/3 less income when there is one player difference and the same amount of income as the team with more players, if there is more than one player difference?
Why is there a greater inbalance? The barrack costs increase for the whole team. So you pay the same amount of barracks for lets say 4 barracks - doesnt matter how many players are in the team. At least cost should increase for all players at a time... or is this part broken?
The Kickstart Mod is implemented. At the moment is just raises the starting money. Any suggestions? Or is it broken?
important:
Can anybody confirm that there are still problems with lost saves?
But keep in mind: Starcraft works with local files. When you play from a different pc or erase the local files, your stats can not be loaded!
Yes, that i meant. But i meant not 1/3 less from the full income we get, i meant as example 1/3 less of the income we get in ADDITIONAL from the left player.
If there 1 Player difference, its to much unbalanced to the detriment of the team with a player more.
And as barracks I wanted to address two things:
1. Due to the current cost of the barracks in the game in a 1v2, 2v3, 3v4 situation the game is unbalanced in addition to the disadvantage of playing in teams under paid. Could counteract because you usually build barracks, from the perspective of the playing outnumbered team. The game with 1 player difference is since a long time broken.
2. The Costs incrase of each new builded barrack is a bit to high, and like i say:
It can not be that a team had 10 barracks for example, are all destroyed, and the first newly built Brracke then already cost several thousand.
Yes, mortars are still OP. It's ridiculous how fast they clear troops. Against one player with a full set of mortars it's even pointless to build barracks against because the spawned troops don´t even fire a single shot before they die while feeding the opponent loads of money.
I just played a 3v3, it was pretty balanced, best player with a 4:1 statistic was someone with goliath and mortars.
He didn`t engage in tank combat, just ran away when alone/outnumbered but made loads of kills when protected by his own troops. You get stunned - you die.
Also, mass barracks with mortars is the name of the game now, as you cannot counter their barracks if you don't have mortars yourself.
Like i said, when you have "conventional" weapons against mortars your 2000 shields are gone from the splash damage of only one volley if you approach. Even with tuning. Using bigger tanks doesn't work as he is long gone when he noticed he can't kill you before the stun ends.
Also, he killed himself on a regular basis, ending his streaks and getting the money himself. He forced it by running into zerglings/troops, mortar splash damage did the rest...
And what's with the "shop clicked" message? A debug message you forgot to turn off?
If you encounter a bug, please copy and paste this post and add your bug to it. Please add bugs you found first to the "need confirmation" part. The next player who encounters this bug please copy and paste the post and move the bug to "confirmed". If you cannot confirm it, please don't delete it from list.
Also, please copy this text.
Confirmed:
- combined items may disappear when dropped
- health packs are sometimes consumed upon use and disappear
- being in the circle when destroying/killing an opponent during capturing does NOT stop the countdown until circle is left
- cannot buy tanks from "southern plateau" shop
- one can commit suicide by mortar splash damage
Need confirmation:
- weapons with more than one projectile still shoot after being killed in middle of the shot
- sometimes can sell items which were dropped by opponents in their base several times, getting the payout each time before the item vanishes from
inventory
@Freddy2287: Go
mortars are still OP. It's ridiculous how fast they clear troops. Against one player with a full set of mortars it's even pointless to build barracks against because the spawned troops don´t even fire a single shot before they die while feeding the opponent loads of money.
m00h
yes - troops very strong and flame not effective
so flame need to be more effective
mortar and plasma are single weapons you cant merge them
==== plasma ==== good vs troops and armor 80% not good vs shield 50%
==== mortar ==== good vs troops 100% and hp 50% not good vs shield 70% and armor 150%
==== flame ==== need more range and be more effective vs troops ( now flame not effective)
==== income balance ====
1 vs 2 === less 50% ===
2 vs 4 === less 50% ===
killed himself will not get minerals
auto-cannon need to be good vs (bunkers and armor) +150% but less range (6)
Yes, barracks now get more expensive the more your team buys. And yes, they wont get cheaper if existing ones are destroyed. So you have to protect them. The amount of cost increase is just a first try. Any experience with it? To high? To low?
barracks little bit expensive
so if you lost your barracks you lost game
this option interesting but it will be better to pay 50% if you lost barracks
not 5000 for barrack
Yes, mortars are still OP. It's ridiculous how fast they clear troops. Against one player with a full set of mortars it's even pointless to build barracks against because the spawned troops don´t even fire a single shot before they die while feeding the opponent loads of money.
m00h
troops are OP too
hard to kill them
only first 30 minutes troops can be managed
with plasma or mortar
and after they getting to be OP
so only with mortar from safe distant you can kill them
and one player with a full set of mortars will kill them but in team 2vs2 you cant have full set of mortars so you cant deal with troops
swarm missile was good vs troops but now not effective
Hm okay more and more of the new content gets fixed.
I reworked a lot of the weapon mechanics. I'm not that satisfied with it though. I decided to throw away Attribute related damage modification because it seams to confuse players (armor affection and damage vs armored units seamed to be to complicated) Rockets and Zapper will stay the way they are now but I'm open for tipps/suggestions for some more special features for Autocannon and Laser.
Because this thread growing more and more ans is getting confusing, i opened a project page here at sc2mapster. I hope this will make reporting and especially keeping track of bugs easier. Lets see if its a good idea and if people accept it.
So please use THIS forum from now on. (Still sc2mapster)
Minigun -100% for each armor point. you wrote an extra 0 making it deal 0 dmg against armored. or 1 per shot.
Mortars deals Normal damage against shields but around 20-40 vs armored. (troops in map, marauders) basilisk = last upgrade for mortars, it stands shooting them for 10 seconds.
This -10 precent dmg per armor is kinda hard against units that has 5 or more armor. hero's and players goes mass armor. those with ability to increase armor and buy one armor upgrade is over 5-6 armor normaly.
so that becomes -50-60 precent dmg for our weapons against them. "only rockets does not count"
so if you deal 20 dmg, vs 5 armor. you will deal 10 damage. "if weapon has -10 precent dmg per armor = 50 precent dmg reduction", + the unit has 5 armor. so in total you will deal 5 dmg, when supposed to deal 15.
thats a huge difference. needs fix.
also can we have more marines/marauders? outposts gives like +50 minerals per economy cooldown. and thats when you are 30 minutes into game.
economy is quite slow. all games lasts over 1 and upp to 2 hours. and thats with kickstarter.
Looks like you did a lot of changes since my last play. Well done. I remember the time when you mentioned several times that you are very busy but now look at yourself. You did so much work on this game and look how wonderfully it had grown. Great job!
Hi, its my first time in the forum, so hello everyone. I just wanted to say that so far this is a really good game. Of course, you can always tweak a whole bunch of stuff, but that's true of any game. In general I think the game is great and fun to play. So grats to the developer :)
I just have one question, is this game designed to spite the winners and reward the quitters? I ask that because every time we played and we start winning, the guys on the opposite team just do a "lol" and quit. Consequently, the guys who stayed and played the game as it should now get a defeat at the end of the game, and it gets recorded. So here we are, a bunch of loyal players with a series of losses on their match history that should have been a series of wins. This makes the quitters the actual winners because then it makes winning the game pointless; because every time you're winning the other side just quits, so you never get a win. I do hope this issue can be addressed so we can continue to play an otherwise enjoyable game.
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1 -bug - cant buy boom or predator
2 - i like kick-start with more minerals (nice to have more income and faster)
3 - you cant win vs imba(2vs1 4vs2) when barracks cost expensive
4 - weapons with same range make game imba ( its more fun when you has different weapons range)
@Trieva: Go
hi:) I now after 2h game was fun:)
BUG * cant buy boom or predator or doomhummer
if barracks destroyed the cost expensive to rebuild
@ All: sorry i write in german, its much better for me to say what i think. @ Freddy : Ich schreibe auf deutsch, in englisch wäre es fehlerhaft und ich habe keine Lust zu übersetzen^^
- Das Problem liegt schon lange in der 1v2, 2v3, 3v4 Situation. Der Vorteil des kleineren Teams ist etwas zu gross durch die Menge zusätzlichen Geldes. Ich empfehle die Menge des Geldes das die übrigen Mitspieler durch den geleavten Spieler erhalten prozentual an zu passen. Ich weiss nicht ob es jetzt 100% sind, aber ich nehme jetzt diese 100% als Beispiel. Ich weiss das balancen nie eine leichte Sache ist, was nicht selten in ein zu gut gemeintes Balancing gipfelt (daher zu extrem in die Gegenrichtung). Ich schätze diesen Punkt so ein, dass man bei diesem Beispielwert erst einmal von 100% auf ca. 66.6% gehen würde. Also etwa um einen Drittel kürzen. Bei einem Unterschied von 2 Spielern sehe ich einigermassen einen Ausgleich. Das Team welches in Überzahl ist, kann den Vorteil des kleineren Teams ausgleichen, durch das halten der Outposts. Bei einem 1 Spieler Unterschied jedoch, kann ich diesen Überzahlvorteil nicht feststellen. Wodurch sich bei nur einem Spieler Unterschied kein Balancing einstellt. Also wäre mein Vorschlag zum Beispiel so, das bei einem Spieler Unterschied 1/3 weniger Mineral ausbezahlt wird als bisher, jedoch bei 2 Spieler Unterschied beim 2. Spieler der bisherigen Wert( so wie es bis jetzt war) ausgezahlt wird.
- Durch die Massnahme bezüglich teurer werden der Barracks, hat sich im Falle einer nummerischen Ungleichheit das Unbalancing noch mehr verschärft. weil bisher die Barracken eine Möglichkeit war, im überzahl spielenden Team mit ebensolchen entgegen zu wirken. Jetzt kann es aber gut sein, das gute Spieler im in Überzahl spielenden Team keine Chance haben zu gewinnen, gegen ein Team von Noobs. Meine Empfehlung lautet ungefähr, dass die ersten 4 Barracken eines Teams die selben Kosten haben wie bisher. Jede weitere Barracke sollte im Preis jeweils um etwa 500 Mineral steigen. Werden Barracken zerstört, wird der Preis angepasst. Es kann nicht sein, dass ein Team beispielsweise 10 Barracken hatte, alle zerstört werden, und die 1. neu gebaute Brracke dann bereits mehrere Tausend kostet.
- Ich hoffe die Stats laden blad einmal für jederman wie sie sollten:)
- Boom, Doomhammer, Predator -Bug wurde bereits genannt
- Einen Kickstart Mod würde ich ebenfalls begrüssen, jedoch nicht zu extrem. Zum Beispiel etwa 800 Mineral mehr zu Beginn. Das reicht. Und vielleicht jeweils etwa 10% weniger lang bis next Mineral. Jedoch das Income durch das halten der Outposts nicht noch zusätzlich erhöhen.
Cheers
@Trieva: Go
You are right. Time to sort the weapons into clear categories. I work on it.
@master2222x: Go
@HeadcrashX: Go (and I hope its okay that I answer in english because thats easier for others who might want to read it)
important:
Can anybody confirm that there are still problems with lost saves?
But keep in mind: Starcraft works with local files. When you play from a different pc or erase the local files, your stats can not be loaded!
And: Are mortars op now?
Yes, that i meant. But i meant not 1/3 less from the full income we get, i meant as example 1/3 less of the income we get in ADDITIONAL from the left player. If there 1 Player difference, its to much unbalanced to the detriment of the team with a player more.
And as barracks I wanted to address two things: 1. Due to the current cost of the barracks in the game in a 1v2, 2v3, 3v4 situation the game is unbalanced in addition to the disadvantage of playing in teams under paid. Could counteract because you usually build barracks, from the perspective of the playing outnumbered team. The game with 1 player difference is since a long time broken. 2. The Costs incrase of each new builded barrack is a bit to high, and like i say: It can not be that a team had 10 barracks for example, are all destroyed, and the first newly built Brracke then already cost several thousand.
Laser tank now not useful - it was too much limited
@Freddy2287: Go
Yes, mortars are still OP. It's ridiculous how fast they clear troops. Against one player with a full set of mortars it's even pointless to build barracks against because the spawned troops don´t even fire a single shot before they die while feeding the opponent loads of money.
I just played a 3v3, it was pretty balanced, best player with a 4:1 statistic was someone with goliath and mortars.
He didn`t engage in tank combat, just ran away when alone/outnumbered but made loads of kills when protected by his own troops. You get stunned - you die.
Also, mass barracks with mortars is the name of the game now, as you cannot counter their barracks if you don't have mortars yourself.
Like i said, when you have "conventional" weapons against mortars your 2000 shields are gone from the splash damage of only one volley if you approach. Even with tuning. Using bigger tanks doesn't work as he is long gone when he noticed he can't kill you before the stun ends.
Also, he killed himself on a regular basis, ending his streaks and getting the money himself. He forced it by running into zerglings/troops, mortar splash damage did the rest...
And what's with the "shop clicked" message? A debug message you forgot to turn off?
m00h
If you encounter a bug, please copy and paste this post and add your bug to it. Please add bugs you found first to the "need confirmation" part. The next player who encounters this bug please copy and paste the post and move the bug to "confirmed". If you cannot confirm it, please don't delete it from list.
Also, please copy this text.
Confirmed:
- combined items may disappear when dropped
- health packs are sometimes consumed upon use and disappear
- being in the circle when destroying/killing an opponent during capturing does NOT stop the countdown until circle is left
- cannot buy tanks from "southern plateau" shop
- one can commit suicide by mortar splash damage
Need confirmation:
- weapons with more than one projectile still shoot after being killed in middle of the shot
- sometimes can sell items which were dropped by opponents in their base several times, getting the payout each time before the item vanishes from
inventory
yes - troops very strong and flame not effective
so flame need to be more effective
mortar and plasma are single weapons you cant merge them
troops are OP too
hard to kill them only first 30 minutes troops can be managed with plasma or mortar and after they getting to be OP so only with mortar from safe distant you can kill them and one player with a full set of mortars will kill them but in team 2vs2 you cant have full set of mortars so you cant deal with troops swarm missile was good vs troops but now not effective
Hm okay more and more of the new content gets fixed.
I reworked a lot of the weapon mechanics. I'm not that satisfied with it though. I decided to throw away Attribute related damage modification because it seams to confuse players (armor affection and damage vs armored units seamed to be to complicated) Rockets and Zapper will stay the way they are now but I'm open for tipps/suggestions for some more special features for Autocannon and Laser.
Because this thread growing more and more ans is getting confusing, i opened a project page here at sc2mapster. I hope this will make reporting and especially keeping track of bugs easier. Lets see if its a good idea and if people accept it.
So please use THIS forum from now on. (Still sc2mapster)
x2
m00h
is a nice game, but a couple bugs.
Minigun -100% for each armor point. you wrote an extra 0 making it deal 0 dmg against armored. or 1 per shot. Mortars deals Normal damage against shields but around 20-40 vs armored. (troops in map, marauders) basilisk = last upgrade for mortars, it stands shooting them for 10 seconds.
This -10 precent dmg per armor is kinda hard against units that has 5 or more armor. hero's and players goes mass armor. those with ability to increase armor and buy one armor upgrade is over 5-6 armor normaly.
so that becomes -50-60 precent dmg for our weapons against them. "only rockets does not count"
so if you deal 20 dmg, vs 5 armor. you will deal 10 damage. "if weapon has -10 precent dmg per armor = 50 precent dmg reduction", + the unit has 5 armor. so in total you will deal 5 dmg, when supposed to deal 15. thats a huge difference. needs fix.
also can we have more marines/marauders? outposts gives like +50 minerals per economy cooldown. and thats when you are 30 minutes into game.
economy is quite slow. all games lasts over 1 and upp to 2 hours. and thats with kickstarter.
but a very nice game indeed.
you can also shot down medic, or healing spawn. i though they where supposed to be invulnerable.
Looks like you did a lot of changes since my last play. Well done. I remember the time when you mentioned several times that you are very busy but now look at yourself. You did so much work on this game and look how wonderfully it had grown. Great job!
Hi, its my first time in the forum, so hello everyone. I just wanted to say that so far this is a really good game. Of course, you can always tweak a whole bunch of stuff, but that's true of any game. In general I think the game is great and fun to play. So grats to the developer :)
I just have one question, is this game designed to spite the winners and reward the quitters? I ask that because every time we played and we start winning, the guys on the opposite team just do a "lol" and quit. Consequently, the guys who stayed and played the game as it should now get a defeat at the end of the game, and it gets recorded. So here we are, a bunch of loyal players with a series of losses on their match history that should have been a series of wins. This makes the quitters the actual winners because then it makes winning the game pointless; because every time you're winning the other side just quits, so you never get a win. I do hope this issue can be addressed so we can continue to play an otherwise enjoyable game.