I'm Fenix aka scbroodsc2. I said I would try to help into the wiki, so here I am. I don't know how I got so much interested into the wiki recently but the fact that only DrSuperEvil is helping out alone for the whole community just doesn't make any sense. I decided I would put some time into this to make it better so ... I've passed several hours figuring out the wiki, how it is made and its coding. I now have a better view of it, but there are still some gaps I'm not sure about before going into content creation and what not.
So here is what I learned so far exploring it.
The wiki is built with categories and subcategories.
When exploring the categories you will see either C, P or F for Categories, Pages or Files
It's overall well made, although parts of the wiki are messy.
There are some Special Pages usefull for navigating and moderating the wiki
How to place a page to a specefic place in the wiki or move things around for simplification (while caring about things linking to the moved page) like subcategories, categories and pages.
How to place an uploaded file in the right category. There is no information about where it's going to be uploaded when on the upload page.
What are template, how to use them and when to use them.
The Wiki uses WikiCreole code, but does not read all basic stuff of it, and it can read XHTML but not entirely...so what can be used exacly? How far in customised coding you can go to get things look great? When making a page it's hard to figure out what will work from what will not work as far as coding is concerned.
What is the upload limit of mapster?
Things that I'd like to help for the wiki:
Reorganising it to a more simpler, easy to navigate wiki.
Make tutorials and/or update old ones, such as adding a more complete tutorial about how to help in the wiki. Yes there are already parts explaining exacly that, but just put together everything and add even more information so when you reach the end, you're good to go.
Moderate for the best and share the need of participation of the wiki.
Help people to put tutorial into the wiki or ask them if they make a tutorial if they want to share it. I'm sure lots of people made tutorials for themself on youtube or wherever but did not share it into the wiki.
Here is a visual image of the wiki and where everything is. In yellow, these are the big categories, in red the parts with lots of pages. You can clearly see that most of the pages are around mapster, that part is well organised. When you look at the image part, it's kind of messy and could be more organised (Like instead of all those subcategories, just a big "Editor Icons" would be better I believe). When you look at the template area, it's really messy and most pages are not informative at all. (And you don't even use that part of the wiki much, it's all about the editor, not templates about how to make the wiki, all that could be into a single template area much more organised) The maintenance part is useless. (At least from my perspective, if moderators see more...)
So this is it, I want to understand how all of this works and make it better.
Moderators can move/delete pages and modify the protected ones if needed. Only reason some pages are protected is to stop trolls vandalising the more important pages.
You mean the tutorials link under the Getting Started section of the main page? That is mostly to do with the nesting of the tags. Some pages because they cover several areas of the editor or are used by multiple editor features lack such tags because they cannot be assigned to specific parts. The naming is pretty arbitrary and similar to those used by the text editor in the sc2 editor.
Just type a links with the [[Nested1/Nested2/Nested3/...|link name]] format, have the page and then click it to make a new page. In general unless the linked page will be used by several far reaching parts of the wiki just put it nested under the page you are adding the link or the most relevant level of nesting.
You upload the file and then reference it. I forget how since it has been a while since I have needed to do it. There were instructions in one of the threads in the wiki forum.
Templates? Thought we lost those. They were a basic formatting skeleton to copy and paste to make page layouts more uniform. In general use =Page Name= as a title then ==Section== and ===Field=== with nested *s for more specific details about a field or concept. If in doubt look at existing pages.
When it comes to exact coding capacity I believe there are some cryptic pages on it some where in the wiki with no links. Preancher occasionally used to update it.
You would have to ask the new admin to find out the total upload limit.
So far it is pretty easy to navigate in that it is organised out like the editor.
Fishy77 actually did a good job weeding out dead and obsolete tutorials. Still when it comes to the really ancient tutorials extra help is always welcome for doing the oldest to newest screening. Also it would be good to fully transfer tutorials to the wiki because currently moderators have to edit the tutorials if the original poster disappears.
Currently it is the participation part which is sorely lacking...
Problem with the uTube tutorials is if they become obsolete or the person has their account removed. Good old text on this wiki is at least not going to vanish as long as this community exists unlike individual uTube accounts.
Considering how messy and fussy the process of adding images is in the first place as long as you get it to show on the page you do not care where it is stored.
We could probably put all templates under the getting started setion of the main page. COuld you give me a list of them all?
Currently it is the participation part which is sorely lacking...
Well time to change that. ;)
You can access eatch categories and pages found in the image I created here: http://wiki.sc2mapster.com/Category:SC2Mapster_Wiki
Would it be complicated to be moderators and be able to delete/move pages?
Edit: One thing I want to make sure... is this:
Say you have those Icons in the "Categoty:Icons" and you feel like they would be better placed in "Category:Terrain_editor_icons" so you go to those individual image and change their Source. For example, editing the source of the marine icon and change it to fit the new category.
Question: Would it breaks any reference to the posts that uses that image?
The reasonning behind this question is this one... when you click on a file, the link is a direct link to the File itself like "http://wiki.sc2mapster.com/File:Btn-unit-terran-marine.png" and there is no reference to which category it is in. So the category itself would be strictly for wiki organisation, but in reality, all files are in the same big folder (kind of).
This is the same thing with pages, say you pick the "Category:Unit", it countains links nested as Triggers/text and if you go in "Category:Action" it is the same nested as Triggers/text which means moving one to the other would change nothing in terms of linking. The difference would be how organised it is.
In short, moving pages around will not break link as much as it would in html or stuff like that... I'm starting to like this wiki.
Only hard part about moving pages is finding and correcting all the links to the page.
Images probably will not be so easy to reclassify. Cannot seem to find a button to allow them to be reclassified. Still you can move entire categories but it has this message "Please note that only the page will be moved and any pages in the old category will not be recategorized into the new one.". So it seem we are stuck with the image categories.
Yes all links are broken if a page is moved and need to be corrected.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
When I get the time tonight I'll try few things to get familiar with how it works such as uploading an image and trying to put it into a category and moving it, have a page with that image and see if it still works, etc. In all cases if I ever move things around I'll make sure everything is fine.
Ehm... Then how do you explain that I am able to move them around? I uploaded an image and moved it to a new category and put it back to another category while having it linked to my user page and watching if it becomes a broken image, and it seems to hold hard.
In order to move the image you have to edit its source and change the category text found there, but no matter in which category it is found, the image link remains the same, which means any link pointing to that image does not break.
To create the category tree, you can say for example, your image belongs to: "Category:icons" if that page does not exist, you can create it and say this page belongs to "Category:Images" so now when you reach the Images category you will see the alphabetical order of categories with icons in it and when you press that link you reach a page in which there is your image. If you move that image to another category, the previously created page just becomes "empty" and as a sole member you can't delete that page, although you can move it. So at some point I could simply create a "Category:Delete" in which I could put stuff that is not relevant and any mod could take a look and delete what is found in there, that could be a solution. It's counter intuitive, but it works.
Now I'm going to experience a little bit around "what if" that image name is already used by another file or what if that page/category already exist. If it simply says, you can't because it exists, then its perfect and this would mean all files are in the same folder (kind of, as they are probably not in the same folder but it works like it) The moderation of Categories is just for organisation. I now understand quite more about the goals of wikicreole as you can move pages and stuff around without breaking much link (but of course always verify and fix if anything broke)
Lots of reading on the net and in stuff like: http://help.gamepedia.com/Categories
Edit: Since I can't delete anything, but I can move things around, I'll just move things that are no more usefull into the pages I just created in the wiki maintenance to make it easier for moderators. So if someone creates a page by mistake they can put it there in hope it is eventually addressed.
The way everything is linked together is so cool... but so counter intuitive lol. The only way to break a link is to rename a page (by using the Move action) or delete it (which only moderators can do).
Edit: I regrouped the "Icons" image together. You can now more easily find icons without digging more than 2-3 clicks.
You move an image by changing that reference under View Source. Changing the category will change where this image belongs, this applies to every pages. It's not just about the link at the bottom of the page.
I though about reorganising the template section, but I'm a little bit more scared on that as I don't know how to use them and what they are for exacly. It's some kind of automatization for some coding...
I'll also try to make a tutorial on how to use the wiki, how to post, how to move things around, etc. Basicly put everything I had to read in order to understand how it works in a single well-structured tutorial.
These templates have the intent of being able to be copied and pasted before editing as needed. Still I agree that until we know more about the other templates it is probably best to leave them where they are for now.
I'm thinking about changing a bit how the trigger section is made to make it more simple and complete, but even though I feel like I should not worry... I feel like I need a "go for it" and see if it works better. The wiki is designed for everyone to add their parts and have revert features in case of bad moves.
Changing the menu list from: "Triggers, Events, Conditions, Data Types, Presets/Constants and Actions Functions Database" to "Events, Variables, Conditions, Actions, Functions"
Listing actions, conditions, events etc. like in the Event.
Includes going through everything caring about what is an Action and what is a Function. To me it's not the same thing thus should not be mixed like it is currently. I'm willing to re-organise those.
Removing navigation parts that are useless like "Utility" "Movie" etc. Basicly the mid titles between the name of the page and the category.
Completing missing triggers, so that will make a long list in the same page
Changing the navigation table to same page links further down.
Removing the categories that are not in that section. For example, in "Event" there is not "Data Table" "Debug" etc.
Change the starting "Trigger" page with more information about basic triggers and their parts as a general introduction. I started an example, could be improved still.
Adding links to every created parts, references and examples.
Doing that will take hours for sure, but I'm willing to take it and do my best to go through everything the editor has to offer, making the links to new pages etc. I just feel like I need a second thought from someone else before going too fast. Don't be scared thought I'm someone very meticulous, I'll make sure everything works, and better.
Note as well:
Bad link under the wiki main page: https://wiki.sc2mapster.com/SC2Mapster_Wiki Under Data Editor -> Structured overviews
The information found inside have been update by you and placed under "Fields Structure" https://wiki.sc2mapster.com/Fields_Structure
Therefore you can remove the link from the main page and probably delete that old page.
So where the stuff from Presets/Constants going? Also are you not forgetting Object Types or is that being renamed. Anyhow Once things are agreed upon I will change the main page.
Unless there are pages descended from it then you can remove the intermediate classifications. Also if it shares a common name with the data editor then there needs to be a distinction.
"Changing the navigation table to same page links further down" What you mean by that?
If you mean this page: http://wiki.sc2mapster.com/Triggers. Then sure, feel free to expand on the introduction. With your example please try to use an impersonal writing style. You could try to emphasize the ability to combine triggers and data eg. the HOTS Archangel boss abilities. You need to specify the differences between local and global variables (eg. with wait timers, ask my brother ImperialGood for details).
Good for spotting that duplication. I will deal with it tomorrow.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
The place with the table listing General, Actors, AI, Advanced AI, Animation... is what I called "Navigation table". What I mean by changing the links to the same page is just to bring things together on the same page and have links pointing to anchors to the good content. I could add a simple link to move back up since the page would be relatively big. But since it's all text, it would still load fast.
I would place Presets and Constants under Variables since these are linked to variables. The "Object Types" link you see in the main page links to "Data Types" in the trigger sections which I'd place also under Variables. It would contain information about what they are and how they works as well as a list like this:
Variable Type A
Preset 1 under that type
Variable Type B...
and go through the list of variable types. My thinking is really, main pages to navigate big parts of the wiki then just put all the informations structured together so its easy to find and maybe even be able to use page search Ctrl+F to find even faster within the page.
I say the triggers pages should be organised like you find them in the trigger editor. Have the stuff found in the left window of the trigger editor (elements, libraries, labels, functions, preset/constants types, records and global variables) on one page. Maybe you could combine some stuff together on lower tier pages if their functions are similar.
Alright, I've modified the Event page. I wanted to use that table as a base for navigation between eatch parts of the triggers. I want to divide events, conditions, functions and actions like in the table but not refering to the same pages. So the idea is this, have all the triggers on one page, have all the conditions on one page and so on and use the table to jump to the section you want.
Take a look at https://wiki.sc2mapster.com/Triggers/Category-Events it's much cleaner than it was, it is now sorted the same way it is in the editor. And the navigation links to eatch parts. The parts without links are simply label that does not have Events in this case. Conditions will use most of them all and actions will use them all (probably?).
I'm also thinking about removing the outdated parts like:
"Challenge" which leads to: https://wiki.sc2mapster.com/Triggers/Category_Challenge
"Chat Bubble" which leads to: https://wiki.sc2mapster.com/Triggers/Category_Chat_Bubble
As well as replacing to a more usefull place:
"General" (the first one) which leads to: https://wiki.sc2mapster.com/Triggers/Category_Dash_General
"Comments" which leads to: https://wiki.sc2mapster.com/Triggers/Category_Comment
"Logic" (which could be in Conditions) which leads to: https://wiki.sc2mapster.com/Triggers/Category_Logic
That would simplify the table (remove 5 links from it) so all links within it are usefull information.
Edit: I'm getting used to wikicreole more than i though... I tried to do the dot list using * xD....
Edit: I just got a little suprised... in fact, Conditions are Functions. It's like saying:
*Is variable A == 1
*Repeat variable A times this trigger.
On one side you verify the value, on the other you use it. But in the end, it's the same function used. I now understand why Actions and Functions are mixed, but that's wrong too because the Functions are not Actions, they are conditions. You can't find a Function in the Action list, but you can find it in the Condition list.
Was there not some way to compact tables (one of the templates) that allowed you to expand it as needed?
I meant from the main page. Have a page giving an introduction to the various elements and then the individual pages.
I would just remove classifications that lack any events.
You sure they are obsolete? I have recently heard that some of the blizzard only triggers are now able to be used by everyone (like loading new maps). Same for chat bubbles, I would get a confirmation first from numerous sources before deleting them.
With the general I would transfer it to the main intro page of triggers. The comments would fall under the other main page along with libraries and records. The logic page should be merged with conditions.
Just give a list of dead links needing deletion.
Edit: Also with such large scale rearranging make sure you do not accidentally delete stuff.
Well, for the chat bubbles and challenge, if we ever need it, we could make them afterwards. Right now they just dont have any usefull information, are not shown in the trigger list so... I don't mind having a page with "old trigger reference" or whatever, but I doubt it would be usefull to keep them in the table.
I'll go step by step and make sure everything I do ends up working correctly with the good links and that the page it replaces has no links to it. I'll make sure to check eight times if needed to make sure I have everything.
Any links that will no more be usefull I'll simply move them to the "Page to delete" so you can have a 2nd thoughts before taking any irreversible actions.
I am currently going through the list of Functions -> Actor. Seems like a long way to go haha but I can do it... within a couple weeks at least I'd say. I want to finish as fast as possible to allow everyone using the wiki to not get stuck "in between" but yeah, I'll take my time making sure it works.
Edit: Conditions and Functions page is "almost" finished. Links work just need to fill in the places where it says "To be filled". Just like the event page that countains all events, the condition page will countain all conditions. Same goes with the futur "Actions" page and "Variables".
What do you think about these changes? Of course it makes the page huge which can be annoying, but I find it rather more usefull like this and allow searching with Ctrl+F or with the Navigation links. I find it more clean and there were some stuff missing as I went through so I added them. So far I like it. For me the wiki is really about finding information easily without having to dig deep, and this is exacly it. Once applied generally, it will be easy to find data, triggers etc. and it will be much more easy to make the missing pages. Then of course going through the old wiki and filling what got removed will also be a good thing.