@progammer: Go
True that a lot of players cannot afford to buy a game. But I think you can't do much about it.
I don't know if its going to be the new hit in the E-sports scene but I know, that a lot of players in Europe will play it and if I can get Dota with better graphics while not having the problem of disconnects I'm definitely in to it.
I played it a lot with friends of mine so we all are going to play it together.
These models are just higher quality with some slight changes to try and avoid copyright. They don't remind me of the Wc3 units, they are the Wc3 units. I wouldn't be surprised seeing a lawsuit in the future.
Biggest bullshit I have ever read on SC2Mapster.
Most of the models just can't be completly different.
Take a random archer with a blue cape and you got Drow Ranger.
Earth Shaker is running on his 4 hands/feets so I don't know how you think it looks the same lol.
Cmon dude, how are you supposed to recognize the Dota heroes if they can't look in any way like the ones in WC3?
Sorry Mozared I'm not a huge DOTA buff but my memory says that it was pretty sucky. I still have one reign-of-chaos DOTA map from spring 2003, but it crashes (now) when I try to play it (attached). But yeah, I remember it being really bad. Maybe it wasn't his version but I probably would have had his if it was around.
I don't have Warcraft 3 installed anymore, so I can't check your upload, but Eul's map really wasn't by any definition a bad map. It was one of those hyper-polished maps where everything made sense. There was lore for every hero, the spells were balanced, there were no spelling errors in the spell tooltips, heroes had original voices, the terrain looked beautiful, the loading screen was original and had usefull information... It was really an all new game on the level of quality something like Smashcraft currently is. And that's the first version I had ever seen of it. It might be possible that I missed a couple of beta versions due to a two-week holiday absence or such, but I'm pretty sure it was the first version Eul put up.
Most of the models just can't be completly different.
Cmon dude, how are you supposed to recognize the Dota heroes if they can't look in any way like the ones in WC3?
I don't understand why people think this concept that using exactly the same heroes is fine for DotA 2. The art for the heroes was not made by the creators of DotA, they were made by staff at Blizzard.
Now Valve are basing their characters off many of the Warcraft 3 characters/ models because they hired someone who maintains a mod for the game. Since when was that ok?
I don't feel like arguing about this, especially since someone else shares my opinion as well, so I am clearly not alone here.
Rofl, I swear I say a Hydralisk in the tournament. I'm not surprised by the graphics. I was actually expecting better graphics. And everything is copied, even the sounds. There's nothing unique on it. =/
I don't understand why people think this concept that using exactly the same heroes is fine for DotA 2. The art for the heroes was not made by the creators of DotA, they were made by staff at Blizzard.
Now Valve are basing their characters off many of the WC3 characters/ models because they hired someone who maintains a mod for the game. Since when was that OK?
I don't know if it is considered OK, but I just wanted to see who is Lich and who is Enchantress. I don't want completely different looking heroes. They look different enough so that no one would be consider it a rip off. The reason why Icefrog chose these models back in WC3 was not the reason they looked that cool, but instead he was restricted from the editor to do so.
If you could not recognize any of the heroes, it wouldn't be that cool
I don't feel like arguing about this, especially since someone else shares my opinion as well, so I am clearly not alone here.
I just smiled.
Speaking about the graphics:
I expected better graphics too, but when I think about it, it makes quite sense why its not that ultra high. Its a game which will support LAN-Mode so it would be silly to exaggerate the graphics.
That way it will be playable on many different systems, but thats just assuming I don't know anything about the system requirements though.
I don't understand why people think this concept that using exactly the same heroes is fine for DotA 2. The art for the heroes was not made by the creators of DotA, they were made by staff at Blizzard.
Now Valve are basing their characters off many of the Warcraft 3 characters/ models because they hired someone who maintains a mod for the game. Since when was that ok?
I don't feel like arguing about this, especially since someone else shares my opinion as well, so I am clearly not alone here.
The point of Dota 2 was to be a continuation of DotA. Both games will be updated together until DotA 1 falls off the map. If everything goes the way it was planned you should be able to use the same strategies from Dota 2 in DotA 1. If they changed the characters it wouldn't follow IceFrogs plan for the game.
As much as I was waiting for valve to knock it out of the park... they didn't, same old crap. Just going after the easy bucks in the hardcore community taking no gamble on new gameplay whatsoever. Same gripe i had with SC 2.
Very disappointing.
This modern era of games is driving me crazy. You could have never gotten away with a graphical face lift and calling a game a sequel 10 years ago.
Valve needs to learn how to name games then. If Dota 2 is using the exact same heroes then they should just add a subtitle since it'll be the same as the original dota.
As much as I was waiting for valve to knock it out of the park... they didn't, same old crap. Just going after the easy bucks in the hardcore community taking no gamble on new gameplay whatsoever. Same gripe i had with SC 2.
Wait, WHAT? How the hell is SC2 similar to SC1 IN ANY WAY? Singleplayer can't even be compared, and Sc2 mutiplayer melee is royally different from Sc1. No shoot&scoot micro, more macro-managing skills (MULEs, Larvae injections, Chrono Boost), a completely different feel (Compare TvT in Sc1 to TvT in Sc2), units with completely new functions (Banelings, Thors), and a couple of completely new mechanics (warp-in, nydus assaults +/& creep spewing overlords).
I don't mean my capitalization and italics in an angry fashion, but rather in a completely confused way. How the hell can anyone compare Sc1 to Sc2 and come to the conclusion that Sc2 isn't new in any way and is basically just an extension of Sc1 with new graphics? I honestly can't get behind that thought process. Defend thyself.
Any reason why anyone would play this, when they can get W3DotA, LoL or SC2DotA?
- WC3DotA, you have to install the game etc just to play it, while a lot of your friends does not have it. So they have to pay for Wacraft3+TFT.
- WC3 has shitty graphics.
- WC3 has not a reconnect feature and a lot of disconnects.
- LoL, cmon are you serious?
- SC2 Dota, do you mean the Blizzard one or Sotis? Yes Sotis is fun, but not on the level of Dota and Blizzard Dota meh...not even released.
- New good graphics.
These are just some points but I still can understand, why some one would still prefer the old versions or LoL, but not for me I'm pretty convinced regarding Dota 2.
To be fair headlag, I LOL'd too when I was looking into a DOTA game to play and stumbled upon some LoL screenshots. It looks ridiculous. Point is, you get used to this really easily and the graphics simply don't really matter anymore once in the game. Additionally, LoL is free to play, has an effing legion of heroes, and is just really well balanced all-round; pretty much every hero is so much fun to play. The fact that in LoL you need to unlock your heroes is something I'd even count as a boon for the game, as it's a pretty fair system considering the game is free, and it allows people to set their own goals by letting them decide what heroes they want to unlock first. Similar to how Minecraft works, giving the player an open effort/reward system makes people feel really good about unlocking that one specific hero they've always liked.
What does DOTA 2 really have to combat this? Sure, it has plenty of pros, but there's a reason it's seen as 'competition' to LoL and HoN, and not really viewed by anyone as 'the game that will rule the market'. And even if it does become the next big thing - LoL will ALWAYS have a huge share of the market by simply being free to play.
Ok I understand your arguments just to be fair I will answer by listing things, that I like about Dota more than LoL (which a played a lot over 500 games).
Dota has a higher skillcap. You can deny creeps and towers and you lose money for dying which makes it harder to get your items or to dominate in a game.
In LoL you can die over and over again and get not punished enough for it, since you don't lose gold for it.
The balancing was OK, but far away from well balanced. You can see it still now how some heroes are just straight op but thats normal in every kind of game like that.
The other thing is, that in Dota you have caster which are very good in early and bad in late game, while damage-dealer are just sucky at the beginning but gets better at the end of the game. In LoL you can get "AP" which lets every hero be good at the end regardless the class.
But the thing I liked about Dota the most, are the heroes. They are so different from each other: Panton Lancer, Morphling, Evoker etc...
In LoL its like every new Hero has spells someone else already had. Just my opinion but I just find the heroes a lot cooler than the one in LoL.
I am not all that disappointed in Dota 2. It is exactly the same thing they announced: Dota on an own platform.
The graphics are so-so: I don't like the "drawn", comic-like style they use; the heroes look like made of plastic. Spell effects are ok, some spells look nice, others look shitty. But that was the same case for Dota 1 and depends on personal taste anyway.
The gameplay is exactly as they announced: An exact copy of Dota. They announced to port the heroes; they announced the gameplay will be the same, they even announced to keep all the special mechanics the same (animation cancelling, denying, juking). So, what big changes did you expect? They wanted to copy dota, and they made a good job.
The main changes will not be in the game itself, but around it: Matchmaking, Stat-tracking, unlimited ingame observers, on-the-fly shoutcasting available ingame, when you observe, singleplayer practice vs bots or in special scenarios (last hit challenges etc), the whole mentor-mentee system they announced, the "community points" system, where you get fame for teaching people how to play or replace them in a match they have to leave etc.
All of this is stuff they announced and which will probably make it into the final game. This is whats really different to Dota 1. If they suceed, this will make Dota 2 way more beginner-friendly than Dota 1 and a better game overall; despite having the exact same gameplay.
And all of this has one thing in common: We did not see it yet.
I think, Dota 2 is a great game, just like Dota 1 (well, its the same ;) ). There is almost no reason for playing Dota 2 over Dota 1 gameplay-wise, but once all the features stand and the game is released, there might be reasons to play it as a whole.
Also, breaking with the WC3 engine enables the developers to fix some nasty bugs from WC3 and enables features for future versions, which were just not possible before.
You could still ask, why not to take HoN or LoL over Dota 2? Well, I cannot answer that. Personal preference again.
I for myself liked the announced plans for community support that much, that I am willing to give it a try. And if I would care for shiny graphics that much, I wouldn't still play Dota 1 ;)
As much as I am not a fan of DOTA-style games, if they had at least made something fresh or innovative I might be more interested. I guess they're just going the safe route and trying to tap into a market.
Well, speaking of Valve, the last game I bought from them was L4D and I didn't play it for very long. L4D2 was a no-buy and this might be too. Yet, Hl2/cs:s, portal, tf2, were all my purchases before that and those were AMAZING.
As much as I am not a fan of DOTA-style games, if they had at least made something fresh or innovative I might be more interested. I guess they're just going the safe route and trying to tap into a market.
Well, speaking of Valve, the last game I bought from them was L4D and I didn't play it for very long. L4D2 was a no-buy and this might be too. Yet, Hl2/cs:s, portal, tf2, were all my purchases before that and those were AMAZING.
Its not a matter of going the safe route. Valve's whole goal was to port DotA onto source, taking it away from WC3 and Blizzard whom basically shitted on the Icefrog for years.
Here is basically the short version of the private shitstorm between Blizz and Ice. I was very much involved in the DotA community back then, have had conversations with Icefrog many times. There was a real problem with bots, and this guy on the DotA team wrote some code to be implemented into Bnet to help combat bots. Blizzard basically told them to get fucked. This kind of shit going back and forth for years between Icefrog and Blizzard. The real big kicker was when Icefrog actually spent his time to goto Blizzard... The whole time Icefrog was making DotA he was going to college to learn to become an actual game designer. After finishing school it was time to get a job, so he went to Blizzard. They basically laughed at him in his face when he said he wanted to make DotA as a separate game, while making fun of him, and ended the interview early by kicking him out like their holier than thou. Ice never really talked to the public with the kind of crap Blizzard dished out at him. I can't imagine how he felt, since his whole life is basically focused zealously on DotA, and he got his dream crushed by Blizzard. Lucky for him, almost all major gaming companies wanted to higher him, and he could choose where he wanted to go. Valve actually made the best offer and freedom to Icefrog, thus Icefrog makes ALL the rules when it came to making this game. I think it turned out great for him, and is actually a good thing Blizzard did not higher him. Blizzard doesn't deserve him or that community.
Funny thing is, if Icefrog did decide to go public to tarnish Blizzard's image. They probably would of done something to help him. Blizzard is filth, horrible people.
That is why DotA2 is the way it is, because Icefrog wanted it this way. It wasn't Valve's choice or Gabe's choice. Icefrog does whatever he wants, and the dude is possessed when it comes to making DotA full scale game. Now his dream is coming true. It will be interesting how far he takes DotA with a fire like that.
Also, DotA will most likely become free in a year or two.
I had about 4,000 DotA games under my belt back in 2007. I've laned against Merlin before several times, and counter pub stomped col with my farmed BH, arguably the best DotA team there ever was
Next Valve should make a WoW clone and crush Blizzard, they don't deserve modders like the people here.
@progammer: Go True that a lot of players cannot afford to buy a game. But I think you can't do much about it.
I don't know if its going to be the new hit in the E-sports scene but I know, that a lot of players in Europe will play it and if I can get Dota with better graphics while not having the problem of disconnects I'm definitely in to it.
I played it a lot with friends of mine so we all are going to play it together.
Biggest bullshit I have ever read on SC2Mapster.
Most of the models just can't be completly different.
Take a random archer with a blue cape and you got Drow Ranger.
Earth Shaker is running on his 4 hands/feets so I don't know how you think it looks the same lol.
Cmon dude, how are you supposed to recognize the Dota heroes if they can't look in any way like the ones in WC3?
I don't have Warcraft 3 installed anymore, so I can't check your upload, but Eul's map really wasn't by any definition a bad map. It was one of those hyper-polished maps where everything made sense. There was lore for every hero, the spells were balanced, there were no spelling errors in the spell tooltips, heroes had original voices, the terrain looked beautiful, the loading screen was original and had usefull information... It was really an all new game on the level of quality something like Smashcraft currently is. And that's the first version I had ever seen of it. It might be possible that I missed a couple of beta versions due to a two-week holiday absence or such, but I'm pretty sure it was the first version Eul put up.
@h34dl4g: Go
Unnecessary and exaggerated. Also, I don't remember insulting you for your opinion.
I don't understand why people think this concept that using exactly the same heroes is fine for DotA 2. The art for the heroes was not made by the creators of DotA, they were made by staff at Blizzard.
Now Valve are basing their characters off many of the Warcraft 3 characters/ models because they hired someone who maintains a mod for the game. Since when was that ok?
I don't feel like arguing about this, especially since someone else shares my opinion as well, so I am clearly not alone here.
Rofl, I swear I say a Hydralisk in the tournament. I'm not surprised by the graphics. I was actually expecting better graphics. And everything is copied, even the sounds. There's nothing unique on it. =/
Someone needs to unlock mapsters inner cunning :(
Unnecessary and exaggerated....
I don't know if it is considered OK, but I just wanted to see who is Lich and who is Enchantress. I don't want completely different looking heroes. They look different enough so that no one would be consider it a rip off. The reason why Icefrog chose these models back in WC3 was not the reason they looked that cool, but instead he was restricted from the editor to do so.
If you could not recognize any of the heroes, it wouldn't be that cool
I just smiled.
Speaking about the graphics:
I expected better graphics too, but when I think about it, it makes quite sense why its not that ultra high. Its a game which will support LAN-Mode so it would be silly to exaggerate the graphics.
That way it will be playable on many different systems, but thats just assuming I don't know anything about the system requirements though.
The point of Dota 2 was to be a continuation of DotA. Both games will be updated together until DotA 1 falls off the map. If everything goes the way it was planned you should be able to use the same strategies from Dota 2 in DotA 1. If they changed the characters it wouldn't follow IceFrogs plan for the game.
As much as I was waiting for valve to knock it out of the park... they didn't, same old crap. Just going after the easy bucks in the hardcore community taking no gamble on new gameplay whatsoever. Same gripe i had with SC 2.
Very disappointing.
This modern era of games is driving me crazy. You could have never gotten away with a graphical face lift and calling a game a sequel 10 years ago.
Valve needs to learn how to name games then. If Dota 2 is using the exact same heroes then they should just add a subtitle since it'll be the same as the original dota.
should be called DotA: Source
Thats actually a pretty good title.
Coming from Valve, I also excepted a game with better UI and graphics... I just saw the game, and it's pretty meh.
So, DotA with shinnier graphics? and it won't be free?
Any reason why anyone would play this, when they can get W3DotA, LoL or SC2DotA?
I laughed like hell.
Wait, WHAT? How the hell is SC2 similar to SC1 IN ANY WAY? Singleplayer can't even be compared, and Sc2 mutiplayer melee is royally different from Sc1. No shoot&scoot micro, more macro-managing skills (MULEs, Larvae injections, Chrono Boost), a completely different feel (Compare TvT in Sc1 to TvT in Sc2), units with completely new functions (Banelings, Thors), and a couple of completely new mechanics (warp-in, nydus assaults +/& creep spewing overlords).
I don't mean my capitalization and italics in an angry fashion, but rather in a completely confused way. How the hell can anyone compare Sc1 to Sc2 and come to the conclusion that Sc2 isn't new in any way and is basically just an extension of Sc1 with new graphics? I honestly can't get behind that thought process. Defend thyself.
- WC3DotA, you have to install the game etc just to play it, while a lot of your friends does not have it. So they have to pay for Wacraft3+TFT.
- WC3 has shitty graphics.
- WC3 has not a reconnect feature and a lot of disconnects.
- LoL, cmon are you serious?
- SC2 Dota, do you mean the Blizzard one or Sotis? Yes Sotis is fun, but not on the level of Dota and Blizzard Dota meh...not even released.
- New good graphics.
These are just some points but I still can understand, why some one would still prefer the old versions or LoL, but not for me I'm pretty convinced regarding Dota 2.
@h34dl4g: Go
To be fair headlag, I LOL'd too when I was looking into a DOTA game to play and stumbled upon some LoL screenshots. It looks ridiculous. Point is, you get used to this really easily and the graphics simply don't really matter anymore once in the game. Additionally, LoL is free to play, has an effing legion of heroes, and is just really well balanced all-round; pretty much every hero is so much fun to play. The fact that in LoL you need to unlock your heroes is something I'd even count as a boon for the game, as it's a pretty fair system considering the game is free, and it allows people to set their own goals by letting them decide what heroes they want to unlock first. Similar to how Minecraft works, giving the player an open effort/reward system makes people feel really good about unlocking that one specific hero they've always liked.
What does DOTA 2 really have to combat this? Sure, it has plenty of pros, but there's a reason it's seen as 'competition' to LoL and HoN, and not really viewed by anyone as 'the game that will rule the market'. And even if it does become the next big thing - LoL will ALWAYS have a huge share of the market by simply being free to play.
@Mozared: Go
Ok I understand your arguments just to be fair I will answer by listing things, that I like about Dota more than LoL (which a played a lot over 500 games).
Dota has a higher skillcap. You can deny creeps and towers and you lose money for dying which makes it harder to get your items or to dominate in a game.
In LoL you can die over and over again and get not punished enough for it, since you don't lose gold for it.
The balancing was OK, but far away from well balanced. You can see it still now how some heroes are just straight op but thats normal in every kind of game like that.
The other thing is, that in Dota you have caster which are very good in early and bad in late game, while damage-dealer are just sucky at the beginning but gets better at the end of the game. In LoL you can get "AP" which lets every hero be good at the end regardless the class.
But the thing I liked about Dota the most, are the heroes. They are so different from each other: Panton Lancer, Morphling, Evoker etc...
In LoL its like every new Hero has spells someone else already had. Just my opinion but I just find the heroes a lot cooler than the one in LoL.
I am not all that disappointed in Dota 2. It is exactly the same thing they announced: Dota on an own platform.
The graphics are so-so: I don't like the "drawn", comic-like style they use; the heroes look like made of plastic. Spell effects are ok, some spells look nice, others look shitty. But that was the same case for Dota 1 and depends on personal taste anyway.
The gameplay is exactly as they announced: An exact copy of Dota. They announced to port the heroes; they announced the gameplay will be the same, they even announced to keep all the special mechanics the same (animation cancelling, denying, juking). So, what big changes did you expect? They wanted to copy dota, and they made a good job.
The main changes will not be in the game itself, but around it: Matchmaking, Stat-tracking, unlimited ingame observers, on-the-fly shoutcasting available ingame, when you observe, singleplayer practice vs bots or in special scenarios (last hit challenges etc), the whole mentor-mentee system they announced, the "community points" system, where you get fame for teaching people how to play or replace them in a match they have to leave etc.
All of this is stuff they announced and which will probably make it into the final game. This is whats really different to Dota 1. If they suceed, this will make Dota 2 way more beginner-friendly than Dota 1 and a better game overall; despite having the exact same gameplay.
And all of this has one thing in common: We did not see it yet.
I think, Dota 2 is a great game, just like Dota 1 (well, its the same ;) ). There is almost no reason for playing Dota 2 over Dota 1 gameplay-wise, but once all the features stand and the game is released, there might be reasons to play it as a whole.
Also, breaking with the WC3 engine enables the developers to fix some nasty bugs from WC3 and enables features for future versions, which were just not possible before.
You could still ask, why not to take HoN or LoL over Dota 2? Well, I cannot answer that. Personal preference again.
I for myself liked the announced plans for community support that much, that I am willing to give it a try. And if I would care for shiny graphics that much, I wouldn't still play Dota 1 ;)
As much as I am not a fan of DOTA-style games, if they had at least made something fresh or innovative I might be more interested. I guess they're just going the safe route and trying to tap into a market.
Well, speaking of Valve, the last game I bought from them was L4D and I didn't play it for very long. L4D2 was a no-buy and this might be too. Yet, Hl2/cs:s, portal, tf2, were all my purchases before that and those were AMAZING.
Its not a matter of going the safe route. Valve's whole goal was to port DotA onto source, taking it away from WC3 and Blizzard whom basically shitted on the Icefrog for years.
Here is basically the short version of the private shitstorm between Blizz and Ice. I was very much involved in the DotA community back then, have had conversations with Icefrog many times. There was a real problem with bots, and this guy on the DotA team wrote some code to be implemented into Bnet to help combat bots. Blizzard basically told them to get fucked. This kind of shit going back and forth for years between Icefrog and Blizzard. The real big kicker was when Icefrog actually spent his time to goto Blizzard... The whole time Icefrog was making DotA he was going to college to learn to become an actual game designer. After finishing school it was time to get a job, so he went to Blizzard. They basically laughed at him in his face when he said he wanted to make DotA as a separate game, while making fun of him, and ended the interview early by kicking him out like their holier than thou. Ice never really talked to the public with the kind of crap Blizzard dished out at him. I can't imagine how he felt, since his whole life is basically focused zealously on DotA, and he got his dream crushed by Blizzard. Lucky for him, almost all major gaming companies wanted to higher him, and he could choose where he wanted to go. Valve actually made the best offer and freedom to Icefrog, thus Icefrog makes ALL the rules when it came to making this game. I think it turned out great for him, and is actually a good thing Blizzard did not higher him. Blizzard doesn't deserve him or that community.
Funny thing is, if Icefrog did decide to go public to tarnish Blizzard's image. They probably would of done something to help him. Blizzard is filth, horrible people.
That is why DotA2 is the way it is, because Icefrog wanted it this way. It wasn't Valve's choice or Gabe's choice. Icefrog does whatever he wants, and the dude is possessed when it comes to making DotA full scale game. Now his dream is coming true. It will be interesting how far he takes DotA with a fire like that.
Also, DotA will most likely become free in a year or two.
I had about 4,000 DotA games under my belt back in 2007. I've laned against Merlin before several times, and counter pub stomped col with my farmed BH, arguably the best DotA team there ever was
Next Valve should make a WoW clone and crush Blizzard, they don't deserve modders like the people here.