Dragons are the least of the bible's "hard-to-believe" segments, to put it mildly. :P
1. Fire breathing monster in the book of job
2. Giants once walked the earth
3. People once lived to be 800 years old
4. A talking donkey
5. The trinity. God gives birth to himself so that he can sacrifice himself to himself
6. Samson slays 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass. This is basically Christianity's version of Hercules.
7. Man lived in a whale for 3 days
8. Jacob wrestles with god & WINS
You could replace any of this with stories like Jack & the Beanstalk, and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
No child should be told that they'll burn in hell forever if they don't
believe.
Speaking of hell, one reason why i refuse to accept most modern
religions, is because of the afterlife "punishment side", I mean, what
crime could possibly be bad enough so that they will be tortured forever
(and ever)?
I can't think of anybody who deserves that kind of fate. Maybe Stalin & Hitler. But after more than a few weeks of painful 24 hrs per day torture, it becomes nothing more than pointless stone-age sadism & cruelty. God should have known what Hitler & Stalin were going to do before he created them in the first place. Anytime God creates a being worthy of burning in hell, he is creating someone for the sole purpose of eternal torture.
This is why Jews don't believe in hell (well, to the best of my knowledge).
Dragons are the least of the bible's "hard-to-believe" segments, to put it mildly. :P
1. Fire breathing monster in the book of job
2. Giants once walked the earth
3. People once lived to be 800 years old
4. A talking donkey
5. The trinity. God gives birth to himself so that he can sacrifice himself to himself
6. Samson slays 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass. This is basically Christianity's version of Hercules.
7. Man lived in a whale for 3 days
8. Jacob wrestles with god WINS
You could replace any of this with stories like Jack the Beanstalk, and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
I can't think of anybody who deserves that kind of fate. Maybe Stalin Hitler. But after more than a few weeks of painful 24 hrs per day torture, it becomes nothing more than pointless stone-age sadism cruelty. God should have known what Hitler Stalin were going to do before he created them in the first place. Anytime God creates a being worthy of burning in hell, he is creating someone for the sole purpose of eternal torture.
This is why Jews don't believe in hell (well, to the best of my knowledge).
Actually the way Christianity works... God creates all humans equal, Then he gives them free will. So he has a plan for humans to follow to live peacefully, but due to people not following the lords path, it causes Destruction... So in a way... Hitler, Stalin, Napoleon all are creations from mans wickedness.
one dammed man can damn the world, so in a way we are all responsible for stalin, hitler, obama, and Napoleon.
To do that God would have to be omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent to name just a few requisites. If however, he is any of these things, he cannot be the others. For example, if he is omniscient and omnibenevolent, then he knows what we're going to do, and loves us so much so as to give us free will. However, due to the fact he knows our path and it's preordained, it cannot be true free will can it? By definition, God cannot be perfect, and therefore, are we not evil or kind as a result of God's imperfection and that of his path being flawed?
as far as I'm concerned all organized religion is just silly and we don't need it anymore
what I don't get is why the US is so religious, religion is more popular in poorer countries with little hope for its citizens. Most African nations are highly religious, some wishing to execute homosexuals, others believing you inherit a person's soul by eating him (and actually doing it too).
But it's nearly impossible to change the minds of people brought up in a religion from birth, it is best just to let them continue but deny them special religious privileges such as harassing gays, stoning women and preaching that most of the human race will be eternally tormented by some 4th dimensional being
I'm not saying it's wrong, just check my example again. Either the basic principles of our language are flawed, the definition of God is flawed, or God is flawed.
There seems to be a relationship between being religious and having low IQ , especially in republican states, and especially in the "Bible Belt" of the United States.
Yup... your just mad because you cannot prove it wrong, same reason you just posted Incorrect on Mozareds statement... because when you cant find the answer you just attack whoever your debating with... sad sad little 4 ft korean troll
and as for your other statement in reply to deadzergling, if you knew anything other then trolling and blabbing your mouth you would know that there are several different versions of the bible that are accepted by different churches.... and the king James version... it is only one of the possible translations... learn history, it was first translated into Greek, then Latin, and finally old English... So there is a possibility that it has a few mistakes here and there.
Think before you troll.
Prove to me that invisible pink unicorns don't exist.
Equating religion with stupidity is a very close-minded and ignorant view, a ludicrous and laughable view in fact. I'm sure your next trolling attempt will go better though.
Equating religion with stupidity is a very close-minded and ignorant view, a ludicrous and laughable view in fact. I'm sure your next trolling attempt will go better though.
I agree. It's more accurate to call it the result of childhood indoctrination and social pressure. You'd laugh the bible off if you could read it with neutrality. It's really a hilarious book.
I honestly recommend that you sit down and read the bible from an impartial viewpoint.
Can you really reconcile that with your assertion?
2.Psalms 148:7
Even the dragons praise the Lord.
3.19:4-6
The sun moves around the earth.
1. I believe there are no factual or historic errors in the bible. Translation errors and differences are definitely there, this is a given considering its been translated from Hebrew, Greek, Latin etc. A perfect 1:1 translation(word for word meaning) is probably not possible, and the purest understanding would be reading it in the Hebrew version.
2. Obviously the `dragon` creature we know and imagine today(being popularized) cannot be the same thing referred/alluded to at that time. Think about that;p. A great sea creature does not simply imply a `dragon`. The hebrew word is `tanninim`. Less than half of bible translations opt with using the word `Dragon`. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+148%3A7-12&version=NIV
The word dragon here represents `a great unknown` sea creature.
3. "In them has He set a tabernacle for the sun, which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoices as a strong man to run a race. His [the sun's] going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof." [Psalm 19:4-6]
Nowhere does it say that the `Sun` moves around the earth?(As if the earth were stationary that is). Your conclusion is both incorrect and not in understanding of current scientific data(You know the Sun is not stationary right?).
::::::::::::::::
As to the link you posted, Im surprised at how little `skeptical` data is given(if you can call it that). There are 31 000 verses in the bible. The site seems to(only be able to?) find fault with 428.
Of that 428, half of it are scriptures merely quoted(without explanation as to why) in an attempt for that scripture to self-ridicule itself to the reader.
Lets take, 327. Jesus cures a blind man by spitting in his eyes
Now if the bible is correct and true, then Jesus is indeed the son of God, then this scripture is not hard to grasp or believe. Surely the Christ would have power to do this. Again, assuming the bible is `correct`.
324.Jesus walks on water and calms the sea.
Again, Jesus would have the power to do this. If he is the Son of God. Assuming the bible is correct.
All miraculous signs in the bible are plausible(if you are a believer) and possible(Quantum physics can permit and possibly explain it. Nevertheless, an Omnipotent God would not have the slightest problem in parting the Sea , Doing miracles etc, He created everything..) Do you understand what Im trying to say?.
I understand why It might look ridiculous to a non-believer.
The bible is an amazing book. No other book can truly compare to it(religious or otherwise). The prophecies(predictions made long in advance), The science revealed in it(if you go looking for it), and the historical accuracy is all profound. The world was turned upside down when Jesus came 2 thousand years ago(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus), and the 2nd coming will likely be no different.
We can discuss any of the statements listed on the website. As its evident that the people that put up the list have little knowledge([Psalm 19:4-6]) or have a veil of ignorance over the scriptures(I was tempted to address each point, but I dont have the time at the moment)
Consider again that `if` the bible is in fact true, then these statements would be true(concerning the end times): The great dragon was hurled down. That ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. (Revelation 12:9)
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (2 Corinthians 3:4)
I dont have to prove god to you... you have to prove that god doesnt exist...
Are you slow? you really just contradicted yourself, you said that I would have to disprove unicorns... but I said that you had to disprove the unicorns, since i'm not the one trying to say its fake, So why would I have to prove god?
You either suck at Philosophy or your a troll...
As a christian i believe in all gods, and creatures... the bible tells that they are real... I would never had to call anything fake, the bible says hold the lord above all other gods.
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. that would mean that their are other gods, but that OUR god is the greatest....
What's your view on the idea of the concept of 'God' as, in contrast to being an actual entity, is itself just an idea, however abstract?
From a writer's perspective he's a Mary-Sue. Omnipotent. Omnibenevolent. Omniscient. Etc. All of these are childish & unrealistic concepts. They can't exist unless you start making concessions, like saying that God is omnibenevolent, but still permits evil because he is trying to teach us a lesson (like when he wipes out humanity with a flood). Or like saying that he is omnipotent but he can create a rock so heavy that he can't lift it. Or like saying that he is omniscient yet can't predict free will (Eve eating from the tree of knowledge). Speaking of which, what was the point of leaving his arch-nemesis (the serpent) in the garden along with Adam & Eve? :P
1. I believe there are no factual or historic errors in the bible. Translation errors and differences are definitely there, this is a given considering its been translated from Hebrew, Greek, Latin etc. A perfect 1:1 translation(word for word meaning) is probably not possible, and the purest understanding would be reading it in the Hebrew version.
Is there a "best" translation? Or is nobody allowed to point out errors because you can just point to a different translation anytime one is found? Personally I want to know what the excuse is for people living to be 900 years old, and the other stuff I listed earlier. Why does God allow the Israelites to slaughter their way through Canaanites & Midianites or allow any of the following: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/genocide.html
Atheists are often asked what stops them from going on a murder spree & doing whatever they want. Well, the attitude of the Israelites is exactly one of doing whatever you want & killing anyone who gets in your way. I've heard some bizarre excuses for this, like "these people go to heaven after they die anyway" or "they were a morally inferior cancer that deserved to be wiped out" or "god made it so they felt no pain".
@Taintedwisp: Go
I claim you are 8 year old kid. Since I claimed it you have to disprove it.
At the end you wont be able to disprove it as you can hire anybody to take your identity.
So you are really 8 year old. I didnt know that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Dragons are the least of the bible's "hard-to-believe" segments, to put it mildly. :P
1. Fire breathing monster in the book of job
2. Giants once walked the earth
3. People once lived to be 800 years old
4. A talking donkey
5. The trinity. God gives birth to himself so that he can sacrifice himself to himself
6. Samson slays 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass. This is basically Christianity's version of Hercules.
7. Man lived in a whale for 3 days
8. Jacob wrestles with god & WINS
You could replace any of this with stories like Jack & the Beanstalk, and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
I can't think of anybody who deserves that kind of fate. Maybe Stalin & Hitler. But after more than a few weeks of painful 24 hrs per day torture, it becomes nothing more than pointless stone-age sadism & cruelty. God should have known what Hitler & Stalin were going to do before he created them in the first place. Anytime God creates a being worthy of burning in hell, he is creating someone for the sole purpose of eternal torture.
This is why Jews don't believe in hell (well, to the best of my knowledge).
Actually the way Christianity works... God creates all humans equal, Then he gives them free will. So he has a plan for humans to follow to live peacefully, but due to people not following the lords path, it causes Destruction... So in a way... Hitler, Stalin, Napoleon all are creations from mans wickedness.
one dammed man can damn the world, so in a way we are all responsible for stalin, hitler, obama, and Napoleon.
@Gradius12: Go
What's your view on the idea of the concept of 'God' as, in contrast to being an actual entity, is itself just an idea, however abstract?
@Taintedwisp: Go
To do that God would have to be omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent to name just a few requisites. If however, he is any of these things, he cannot be the others. For example, if he is omniscient and omnibenevolent, then he knows what we're going to do, and loves us so much so as to give us free will. However, due to the fact he knows our path and it's preordained, it cannot be true free will can it? By definition, God cannot be perfect, and therefore, are we not evil or kind as a result of God's imperfection and that of his path being flawed?
@madlibrarian: Go
God is perfect... thats why hes god, and not some other idiot sitting on the street...
Just because our human minds cant comprehend it doesnt mean it must be wrong.
as far as I'm concerned all organized religion is just silly and we don't need it anymore
what I don't get is why the US is so religious, religion is more popular in poorer countries with little hope for its citizens. Most African nations are highly religious, some wishing to execute homosexuals, others believing you inherit a person's soul by eating him (and actually doing it too).
But it's nearly impossible to change the minds of people brought up in a religion from birth, it is best just to let them continue but deny them special religious privileges such as harassing gays, stoning women and preaching that most of the human race will be eternally tormented by some 4th dimensional being
@Taintedwisp: Go
I'm not saying it's wrong, just check my example again. Either the basic principles of our language are flawed, the definition of God is flawed, or God is flawed.
There seems to be a relationship between being religious and having low IQ , especially in republican states, and especially in the "Bible Belt" of the United States.
Prove to me that invisible pink unicorns don't exist.
@FDFederation: Go
Equating religion with stupidity is a very close-minded and ignorant view, a ludicrous and laughable view in fact. I'm sure your next trolling attempt will go better though.
No, I don't consider myself part of an organized religion.
@EchoedRequiem: Go
+1 Like for attempting to get this thread back on topic!
@Eiviyn: Go
I dont have to, Maybe they do, who am I to say they dont based on little to no evidence? now you PROVE TO ME that Invisible Pink Unicorns dont exist.
Now you're getting it.
I don't have to prove god.
You have to PROVE IT TO ME.
I'm glad you understand that.
Consider yourself demolished by your own logic.
I agree. It's more accurate to call it the result of childhood indoctrination and social pressure. You'd laugh the bible off if you could read it with neutrality. It's really a hilarious book.
I honestly recommend that you sit down and read the bible from an impartial viewpoint.
1. I believe there are no factual or historic errors in the bible. Translation errors and differences are definitely there, this is a given considering its been translated from Hebrew, Greek, Latin etc. A perfect 1:1 translation(word for word meaning) is probably not possible, and the purest understanding would be reading it in the Hebrew version.
2. Obviously the `dragon` creature we know and imagine today(being popularized) cannot be the same thing referred/alluded to at that time. Think about that;p. A great sea creature does not simply imply a `dragon`. The hebrew word is `tanninim`. Less than half of bible translations opt with using the word `Dragon`.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+148%3A7-12&version=NIV
The word dragon here represents `a great unknown` sea creature.
3. "In them has He set a tabernacle for the sun, which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoices as a strong man to run a race. His [the sun's] going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof." [Psalm 19:4-6]
Nowhere does it say that the `Sun` moves around the earth?(As if the earth were stationary that is). Your conclusion is both incorrect and not in understanding of current scientific data(You know the Sun is not stationary right?).
The sun is in fact moving through space at approximately 600,000 miles per hour. It is traveling through the heavens and has a "circuit", just as the Bible says. It is estimated that its circuit is so large, it would take 200 million years to complete one orbit.
http://www.howitworksdaily.com/space/is-the-sun-fixed-in-space/
http://nikhilpawar.wordpress.com/2007/12/25/is-our-sun-stationary/
::::::::::::::::
As to the link you posted, Im surprised at how little `skeptical` data is given(if you can call it that). There are 31 000 verses in the bible. The site seems to(only be able to?) find fault with 428.
Of that 428, half of it are scriptures merely quoted(without explanation as to why) in an attempt for that scripture to self-ridicule itself to the reader.
Lets take,
327. Jesus cures a blind man by spitting in his eyes
Now if the bible is correct and true, then Jesus is indeed the son of God, then this scripture is not hard to grasp or believe. Surely the Christ would have power to do this. Again, assuming the bible is `correct`.
324.Jesus walks on water and calms the sea.
Again, Jesus would have the power to do this. If he is the Son of God. Assuming the bible is correct.
All miraculous signs in the bible are plausible(if you are a believer) and possible(Quantum physics can permit and possibly explain it. Nevertheless, an Omnipotent God would not have the slightest problem in parting the Sea , Doing miracles etc, He created everything..) Do you understand what Im trying to say?.
I understand why It might look ridiculous to a non-believer.
The bible is an amazing book. No other book can truly compare to it(religious or otherwise). The prophecies(predictions made long in advance), The science revealed in it(if you go looking for it), and the historical accuracy is all profound. The world was turned upside down when Jesus came 2 thousand years ago(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus), and the 2nd coming will likely be no different.
We can discuss any of the statements listed on the website. As its evident that the people that put up the list have little knowledge([Psalm 19:4-6]) or have a veil of ignorance over the scriptures(I was tempted to address each point, but I dont have the time at the moment)
Consider again that `if` the bible is in fact true, then these statements would be true(concerning the end times):
The great dragon was hurled down. That ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. (Revelation 12:9)
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (2 Corinthians 3:4)
@Eiviyn: Go
what?
I dont have to prove god to you... you have to prove that god doesnt exist...
Are you slow? you really just contradicted yourself, you said that I would have to disprove unicorns... but I said that you had to disprove the unicorns, since i'm not the one trying to say its fake, So why would I have to prove god?
You either suck at Philosophy or your a troll...
As a christian i believe in all gods, and creatures... the bible tells that they are real... I would never had to call anything fake, the bible says hold the lord above all other gods.
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. that would mean that their are other gods, but that OUR god is the greatest....
@Taintedwisp: Go
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot
You make a claim (a god exists), you prove it.
For the record: I'm a 6.9 atheist and I think these kind of threads are pointless, but very amusing :P
From a writer's perspective he's a Mary-Sue. Omnipotent. Omnibenevolent. Omniscient. Etc. All of these are childish & unrealistic concepts. They can't exist unless you start making concessions, like saying that God is omnibenevolent, but still permits evil because he is trying to teach us a lesson (like when he wipes out humanity with a flood). Or like saying that he is omnipotent but he can create a rock so heavy that he can't lift it. Or like saying that he is omniscient yet can't predict free will (Eve eating from the tree of knowledge). Speaking of which, what was the point of leaving his arch-nemesis (the serpent) in the garden along with Adam & Eve? :P
Is there a "best" translation? Or is nobody allowed to point out errors because you can just point to a different translation anytime one is found? Personally I want to know what the excuse is for people living to be 900 years old, and the other stuff I listed earlier. Why does God allow the Israelites to slaughter their way through Canaanites & Midianites or allow any of the following: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/genocide.html
Atheists are often asked what stops them from going on a murder spree & doing whatever they want. Well, the attitude of the Israelites is exactly one of doing whatever you want & killing anyone who gets in your way. I've heard some bizarre excuses for this, like "these people go to heaven after they die anyway" or "they were a morally inferior cancer that deserved to be wiped out" or "god made it so they felt no pain".
@Taintedwisp: Go I claim you are 8 year old kid. Since I claimed it you have to disprove it.
At the end you wont be able to disprove it as you can hire anybody to take your identity.
So you are really 8 year old. I didnt know that.