@EternalWraith: Go
Sry but they are agnostic atheists by their own admission. They might not used that world, but they said 1 million times that they believe a world without god because its a much more elegant world and there is no proof on the existence god. Feynman was particular against for any reasoning for god or for anything that cant be proved by the scientific method.
Read this small book by Feynman its pretty awesome: http://www.eknigu.com/get/P_Physics/PPop_Popular-level/Feynman%20R.%20The%20Meaning%20of%20It%20All%20(1963)(52s).pdf (I suggest it to everybody)
From where did you quoted that scientist manipulate data? Was that on "Climategate"? Its funny how media dont have any idea how scientific research works and they made the "Climategate". There is always a chance that your data might not be right....
You question nothing and accept things at face value to fit your rose-tinted outlook on life. Unaware of corrupt agendas such as the US Federal Reserve Bank, etc.
Rose-tinted world man.
I thought this was funny coming from someone who believes:
1) There are angels watching over you, and God will always protect you if you pray. (unless you're one of the millions of people on the planet who die early, or are born on the wrong side of the planet, in that case prayer doesn't work so well).
2) All criminals receive justice in some afterlife that nobody can detect.
3) Everybody gets a second shot at life, living in an infinite paradise that again, nobody else can detect. Get screwed over this lifetime around? That's ok, your rewards will be multiplied ad-infinitum in the next life. This has to be wishful thinking of the highest order of magnitude.
Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.
- Albert Einstein, obituary in New York Times, April 19, 1955 //
As for global warming, it is another fact that you're denying. Global mean land-ocean land temperature is increasing. That's a fact. The spike in atmosphere CO2 is also a fact. Then again, it's difficult enough to convince you there wasn't a giant flood that magically covered the entire earth and wiped out all life, so I'm not about to get into global warming.
Just because I don't believe in God doesn't mean I can't subscribe to stupid conspiracy theories. Hell, look at all the people who believe life on Earth was created by aliens. But as is usual with critical thinking, unless there's some decent evidence for these conspiracy/hoax theories first, my only reaction will be:
From where did you quoted that scientist manipulate data? Was that on "Climategate"? Its funny how media dont have any idea how scientific research works and they made the "Climategate". There is always a chance that your data might not be right....
Your link One of the big problems of the age concerns 'Global Warming', and whether it is 'man-made' or 'natural'
and then Here we try to explain the principles of man-made global warming in a simple way. Our purpose is to try to understand the story which the climatologists are telling us through their rather complicated general circulation models
I dont see how this relates to most scientists(and growing) believing that global warming theory is incorrect, with its cataclysmic outcomes and all that. Climate `changes` and fluctuates in cycles, yes, but the theory(whether people want to believe it as man-made or natural) is broken. Thats also 2010 data by the way.
@Gradius
I know I still owe you some replies.
The spike in atmosphere CO2 is also a fact.
Yes, we all know that but read the link about Global warming. It will give you a better understanding. Because you know, its about current scientific data/views/beliefs with its appropriate stats. Im not going to school you on this.
Wait....no...actually dont read the link, I really mean it, Cuz its much better to:
One of the big problems of the age concerns 'Global Warming', and whether it is 'man-made' or 'natural'
and then
Here we try to explain the principles of man-made global warming in a simple way. Our purpose is to try to understand the story which the climatologists are telling us through their rather complicated general circulation models
I know evidence hurts a creationist like water on a witch, but it sounds like you're interested in the subject.
Here's NASA's report. At the bottom are real science papers that you can view at your leisure.
Decide for yourself. Don't let some religious fool try to teach you about science. You wouldn't ask a muslim to teach you about judaeism, so don't ask a preacher or politician to teach you about science.
I dont see how this relates to most scientists(and growing) believing that global warming theory is incorrect, with its cataclysmic outcomes and all that. Climate `changes` and fluctuates in cycles, yes, but the theory(whether people want to believe it as man-made or natural) is broken. Thats also 2010 data by the way.
Here is a statement by the people who's job it is to study this.
"There is no longer any doubt in the expert scientific community that the Earth is warming—and it’s now clear that human activity has a significant part in it."
I bet you're a republican. Or a troll. Or a republican troll.
I dont see how this relates to most scientists(and growing) believing that global warming theory is incorrect, with its cataclysmic outcomes and all that.
Plz link me to where does any statistics state that most scientist dont believe in AGW or their number actually growing. (I think you wanted to say man made global warming)
I must really not be one of those militant atheist dudes, then, because I am not even going to touch global warming. >_> I'm just not interested in arguing a point that I'm not qualified to argue with a bunch of other people who are not qualified to argue. Call me when it goes back to philosophy.
I prefer the term "freedom fighter" ("fighting" for the freedom FROM religion, freedom of knowledge?). United Atheist League, United Atheist Alliance, Allied Atheist Alliance
Seriously though, I agree that anthropogenic global warming has been validated by tree ring data, ice core samples, gas measurement of atmosphere, dissolved gas concentration in oceans, etc. There has been quite a noticeable increasing trend in global temperatures ever since the Industrial Revolution. Mass deforestation, unsustainable agricultural methods, and hyper urban development certainly do not alleviate the problems. People in many parts of the world used to be able to live throughout the summers without air conditioners...
I know evidence hurts a creationist like water on a witch, but it sounds like you're interested in the subject.
Here's NASA's report. At the bottom are real science papers that you can view at your leisure.
Decide for yourself. Don't let some religious fool try to teach you about science. You wouldn't ask a muslim to teach you about judaeism, so don't ask a preacher or politician to teach you about science.
Here is a statement by the people who's job it is to study this.
"There is no longer any doubt in the expert scientific community that the Earth is warming—and it’s now clear that human activity has a significant part in it."
I bet you're a republican. Or a troll. Or a republican troll.
Alright you can call me a troll(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8387737.stm (Now thats what I call trolling)), but I`ll stand by my common sense and the majority of other scientists that reject this bs theory.
The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is very likely human-induced and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented in the past 1,300 years.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
B.D. Santer et.al., “A search for human influences on the thermal structure of the atmosphere,” Nature vol 382, 4 July 1996, 39-46
Gabriele C. Hegerl, “Detecting Greenhouse-Gas-Induced Climate Change with an Optimal Fingerprint Method,” Journal of Climate, v. 9, October 1996, 2281-2306
V. Ramaswamy et.al., “Anthropogenic and Natural Influences in the Evolution of Lower Stratospheric Cooling,” Science 311 (24 February 2006), 1138-1141
B.D. Santer et.al., “Contributions of Anthropogenic and Natural Forcing to Recent Tropopause Height Changes,” Science vol. 301 (25 July 2003), 479-483.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Few and somewhat old data references?. Im surprised Nasa hasn`t updated their section on Climate/Global warming more accurately to better reflect whats going on(Unlike the other sections). Its sparse, and I cant go into each of the points. Indeed the Earth is in a period of `Warming`, dont get me wrong there, but man made global warming destroying the planet is nonsense.
Decide for yourself. Don't let some religious fool try to teach you about science. You wouldn't ask a muslim to teach you about judaeism, so don't ask a preacher or politician to teach you about science.
Thanks for the pointer, but Im not sure what your statement is referring to.
There is no longer any doubt in the expert scientific community that the Earth is warming—and it’s now clear that human activity has a significant part in it `Union of concerned scientists`...right...
Of course the Earth is warming. The last part and the word "Significant" is false and also the presumption that the world is going to go cataclysmic for these changes.
Since 1998, more than 31,000 American scientists from diverse climate-related disciplines, including more than 9,000 with Ph.D.s, have signed a public petition announcing their belief that “…there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” Included are atmospheric physicists, botanists, geologists, oceanographers, and meteorologists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Petition
By the way, the Himalayan glaciers are stable and actually growing;-) A few years ago, the U.N.'s climate panel warned that the Himalayas' glaciers were quickly disappearing. The claim was dead wrong. More trolling from these guys?.
But anyway, Global warming is kinda offtopic and I wont bring it up again. Science(Without the lies and nonsense) > Al`gore. Really though, Some of you guys are so uninformed. Depresses me.
Always remember: (The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. - H. L. Menken.)
Since 1998, more than 31,000 American scientists from diverse
climate-related disciplines, including more than 9,000 with Ph.D.s, have
signed a public petition announcing their belief that “…there is no
convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide,
methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the
foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere
and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” Included are atmospheric
physicists, botanists, geologists, oceanographers, and meteorologists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Petition
From the giant criticism section of the Wikipedia link:
"Scientific American took a random sample of 30 of the 1,400 signatories claiming to hold a Ph.D. in a climate-related science. Of the 26 we were able to identify in various databases, 11 said they still agreed with the petition —- one was an active climate researcher, two others had relevant expertise, and eight signed based on an informal evaluation. Six said they would not sign the petition today, three did not remember any such petition, one had died, and five did not answer repeated messages. Crudely extrapolating, the petition supporters include a core of about 200 climate researchers – a respectable number, though rather a small fraction of the climatological community."
All other information seems to indicate that the original Oregon petition was nothing more than a hoax, as there's no reason for scientists to sign some petition by a lone backwater man from Oregon instead of publishing refutations of the science in the literature, bringing it up at conventions, or work through various professional organizations. Sigh. Why does it not surprise me that you would link/buy into exactly this kind of thing? I am disappoint son. You really need to stop reading dubious anti-science/creationist/conspiracy websites.
Did you conveniently leave out the truth about idiot politicians cutting funding to science and research programs and agencies throughout the years? The MAJORITY OF SCIENTISTS AGREE THAT ANTHROPOGENIC GLOBAL WARMING EXISTS, despite what you may hear from Faux News. The Himalayan ice covers are retreating, same with Mount Kilamajaro's ice covers, same with Antarctica's glaciers, same with the north Arctic glaciers, same with Greenland's ice covers, etc. Policies related to stalling anthropogenic global warming also threatens the income of oil and coal companies. Why am I not surprised that BP was one of the really outspoken lobbyists in the US Congress? Did you read in the news how BP has stopped lobbying against anti-global warming policies, because its own scientists could no longer deny the data they were studying? Only idiots take the word "significant" to mean catastrophic, the same way they misuse "theory" to mean speculation, and the same way they misinterpret the end of a calendar cycle to be doomsday; sort of like when idiots in the 90's thought the world would end catastrophically because they believed computers would be unable keep track of the year after 1999.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. - H. L. Menken" - You mean like when religious people believe that the only way to save humanity is to convert or kill all nonbelievers? Or that the only way to rescue or take back the nation is to embrace a certain backwards religious view?
@FDFederation: Go
He is actually right the Himalayan glaciers are growing a bit, if you consider only Himalaya (4km+ height regions) and not its nearby regions. Its pretty simple, the very high altitude mountains still have its temperature under 0 C over the whole year. But the same study also shows that almost all the other regions are loosing ice on the planet and it way out weights the gain of ice at other places.
if your going to back science, stick to what science is accepting... it as been proven that global warming is a Natural process... and really it has nothing to do with god or religion whatsoever.... We may be Speeding up global warming, but we are not causing it.
It has been proven time and time again, that Global Warming awareness crap was just for a political scare tactic Campaign for kerry... You have to be really stupid to believe that... REALLY STUPID... we are talking borderline illiterate.
"We may be Speeding up global warming" <- Duh, that's why ANTHROPOGENIC global warming is a concern because you know, the WARMING EFFECTS that are speeding up warming are CAUSED BY PEOPLE.
@EternalWraith: Go Sry but they are agnostic atheists by their own admission. They might not used that world, but they said 1 million times that they believe a world without god because its a much more elegant world and there is no proof on the existence god. Feynman was particular against for any reasoning for god or for anything that cant be proved by the scientific method.
Read this small book by Feynman its pretty awesome: http://www.eknigu.com/get/P_Physics/PPop_Popular-level/Feynman%20R.%20The%20Meaning%20of%20It%20All%20(1963)(52s).pdf (I suggest it to everybody)
About AGW, its very easy to prove it, this one really sums it up: http://arxiv.org/abs/1001.4988
From where did you quoted that scientist manipulate data? Was that on "Climategate"? Its funny how media dont have any idea how scientific research works and they made the "Climategate". There is always a chance that your data might not be right....
I thought this was funny coming from someone who believes:
1) There are angels watching over you, and God will always protect you if you pray. (unless you're one of the millions of people on the planet who die early, or are born on the wrong side of the planet, in that case prayer doesn't work so well).
2) All criminals receive justice in some afterlife that nobody can detect.
3) Everybody gets a second shot at life, living in an infinite paradise that again, nobody else can detect. Get screwed over this lifetime around? That's ok, your rewards will be multiplied ad-infinitum in the next life. This has to be wishful thinking of the highest order of magnitude.
Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.
- Albert Einstein, obituary in New York Times, April 19, 1955 //
As for global warming, it is another fact that you're denying. Global mean land-ocean land temperature is increasing. That's a fact. The spike in atmosphere CO2 is also a fact. Then again, it's difficult enough to convince you there wasn't a giant flood that magically covered the entire earth and wiped out all life, so I'm not about to get into global warming.
Just because I don't believe in God doesn't mean I can't subscribe to stupid conspiracy theories. Hell, look at all the people who believe life on Earth was created by aliens. But as is usual with critical thinking, unless there's some decent evidence for these conspiracy/hoax theories first, my only reaction will be:
Your link
One of the big problems of the age concerns 'Global Warming', and whether it is 'man-made' or 'natural'
and then
Here we try to explain the principles of man-made global warming in a simple way. Our purpose is to try to understand the story which the climatologists are telling us through their rather complicated general circulation models
I dont see how this relates to most scientists(and growing) believing that global warming theory is incorrect, with its cataclysmic outcomes and all that. Climate `changes` and fluctuates in cycles, yes, but the theory(whether people want to believe it as man-made or natural) is broken. Thats also 2010 data by the way.
@Gradius
I know I still owe you some replies.
The spike in atmosphere CO2 is also a fact.
Yes, we all know that but read the link about Global warming. It will give you a better understanding. Because you know, its about current scientific data/views/beliefs with its appropriate stats. Im not going to school you on this.
Wait....no...actually dont read the link, I really mean it, Cuz its much better to:
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
I know evidence hurts a creationist like water on a witch, but it sounds like you're interested in the subject.
Here's NASA's report. At the bottom are real science papers that you can view at your leisure.
Decide for yourself. Don't let some religious fool try to teach you about science. You wouldn't ask a muslim to teach you about judaeism, so don't ask a preacher or politician to teach you about science.
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/
Here is a statement by the people who's job it is to study this.
"There is no longer any doubt in the expert scientific community that the Earth is warming—and it’s now clear that human activity has a significant part in it."
I bet you're a republican. Or a troll. Or a republican troll.
Plz link me to where does any statistics state that most scientist dont believe in AGW or their number actually growing. (I think you wanted to say man made global warming)
Us "militant" atheists and agnosticists are hijacking this thread for science!
@FDFederation: Go You should call us terrorists. Its a popular word these days anyway.
I must really not be one of those militant atheist dudes, then, because I am not even going to touch global warming. >_> I'm just not interested in arguing a point that I'm not qualified to argue with a bunch of other people who are not qualified to argue. Call me when it goes back to philosophy.
This thread needs to be closed. This kind of topic starts bad shit.
@Hookah604: Go
I prefer the term "freedom fighter" ("fighting" for the freedom FROM religion, freedom of knowledge?). United Atheist League, United Atheist Alliance, Allied Atheist Alliance
Seriously though, I agree that anthropogenic global warming has been validated by tree ring data, ice core samples, gas measurement of atmosphere, dissolved gas concentration in oceans, etc. There has been quite a noticeable increasing trend in global temperatures ever since the Industrial Revolution. Mass deforestation, unsustainable agricultural methods, and hyper urban development certainly do not alleviate the problems. People in many parts of the world used to be able to live throughout the summers without air conditioners...
Alright you can call me a troll(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8387737.stm (Now thats what I call trolling)), but I`ll stand by my common sense and the majority of other scientists that reject this bs theory.
The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is very likely human-induced and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented in the past 1,300 years.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
B.D. Santer et.al., “A search for human influences on the thermal structure of the atmosphere,” Nature vol 382, 4 July 1996, 39-46
Gabriele C. Hegerl, “Detecting Greenhouse-Gas-Induced Climate Change with an Optimal Fingerprint Method,” Journal of Climate, v. 9, October 1996, 2281-2306
V. Ramaswamy et.al., “Anthropogenic and Natural Influences in the Evolution of Lower Stratospheric Cooling,” Science 311 (24 February 2006), 1138-1141
B.D. Santer et.al., “Contributions of Anthropogenic and Natural Forcing to Recent Tropopause Height Changes,” Science vol. 301 (25 July 2003), 479-483.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Few and somewhat old data references?. Im surprised Nasa hasn`t updated their section on Climate/Global warming more accurately to better reflect whats going on(Unlike the other sections). Its sparse, and I cant go into each of the points. Indeed the Earth is in a period of `Warming`, dont get me wrong there, but man made global warming destroying the planet is nonsense.
Decide for yourself. Don't let some religious fool try to teach you about science. You wouldn't ask a muslim to teach you about judaeism, so don't ask a preacher or politician to teach you about science.
Thanks for the pointer, but Im not sure what your statement is referring to.
There is no longer any doubt in the expert scientific community that the Earth is warming—and it’s now clear that human activity has a significant part in it
`Union of concerned scientists`...right...
Of course the Earth is warming. The last part and the word "Significant" is false and also the presumption that the world is going to go cataclysmic for these changes.
Since 1998, more than 31,000 American scientists from diverse climate-related disciplines, including more than 9,000 with Ph.D.s, have signed a public petition announcing their belief that “…there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” Included are atmospheric physicists, botanists, geologists, oceanographers, and meteorologists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Petition
By the way, the Himalayan glaciers are stable and actually growing;-)
A few years ago, the U.N.'s climate panel warned that the Himalayas' glaciers were quickly disappearing. The claim was dead wrong. More trolling from these guys?.
But anyway, Global warming is kinda offtopic and I wont bring it up again. Science(Without the lies and nonsense) > Al`gore. Really though, Some of you guys are so uninformed. Depresses me.
Always remember:
(The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. - H. L. Menken.)
Flee while you can then.
Nobody said man-made global warming was going to destroy the planet.
I don't get it. Are you denying that the greenhouse effect even exists? Just look at what happened to Venus and its runaway greenhouse effect.
From the giant criticism section of the Wikipedia link:
"Scientific American took a random sample of 30 of the 1,400 signatories claiming to hold a Ph.D. in a climate-related science. Of the 26 we were able to identify in various databases, 11 said they still agreed with the petition —- one was an active climate researcher, two others had relevant expertise, and eight signed based on an informal evaluation. Six said they would not sign the petition today, three did not remember any such petition, one had died, and five did not answer repeated messages. Crudely extrapolating, the petition supporters include a core of about 200 climate researchers – a respectable number, though rather a small fraction of the climatological community."
All other information seems to indicate that the original Oregon petition was nothing more than a hoax, as there's no reason for scientists to sign some petition by a lone backwater man from Oregon instead of publishing refutations of the science in the literature, bringing it up at conventions, or work through various professional organizations. Sigh. Why does it not surprise me that you would link/buy into exactly this kind of thing? I am disappoint son. You really need to stop reading dubious anti-science/creationist/conspiracy websites.
Ohh so you agree with that study?
Its good to know that you agree with the fact that about 1000 miles^3 ice melted between 2003-2010.
@EternalWraith: Go
Did you conveniently leave out the truth about idiot politicians cutting funding to science and research programs and agencies throughout the years? The MAJORITY OF SCIENTISTS AGREE THAT ANTHROPOGENIC GLOBAL WARMING EXISTS, despite what you may hear from Faux News. The Himalayan ice covers are retreating, same with Mount Kilamajaro's ice covers, same with Antarctica's glaciers, same with the north Arctic glaciers, same with Greenland's ice covers, etc. Policies related to stalling anthropogenic global warming also threatens the income of oil and coal companies. Why am I not surprised that BP was one of the really outspoken lobbyists in the US Congress? Did you read in the news how BP has stopped lobbying against anti-global warming policies, because its own scientists could no longer deny the data they were studying? Only idiots take the word "significant" to mean catastrophic, the same way they misuse "theory" to mean speculation, and the same way they misinterpret the end of a calendar cycle to be doomsday; sort of like when idiots in the 90's thought the world would end catastrophically because they believed computers would be unable keep track of the year after 1999.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. - H. L. Menken" - You mean like when religious people believe that the only way to save humanity is to convert or kill all nonbelievers? Or that the only way to rescue or take back the nation is to embrace a certain backwards religious view?
@FDFederation: Go He is actually right the Himalayan glaciers are growing a bit, if you consider only Himalaya (4km+ height regions) and not its nearby regions. Its pretty simple, the very high altitude mountains still have its temperature under 0 C over the whole year. But the same study also shows that almost all the other regions are loosing ice on the planet and it way out weights the gain of ice at other places.
@Hookah604: Go
A Nature episode said the ice was retreating in the Himalayas.
@Gradius12: Go
@Eiviyn: Go
if your going to back science, stick to what science is accepting... it as been proven that global warming is a Natural process... and really it has nothing to do with god or religion whatsoever.... We may be Speeding up global warming, but we are not causing it.
It has been proven time and time again, that Global Warming awareness crap was just for a political scare tactic Campaign for kerry... You have to be really stupid to believe that... REALLY STUPID... we are talking borderline illiterate.
@Taintedwisp: Go
Please close this thread, this is just getting less intellectual and more 'you have to be really stupid ... REALLY STUPID'.
@Taintedwisp: Go
"We may be Speeding up global warming" <- Duh, that's why ANTHROPOGENIC global warming is a concern because you know, the WARMING EFFECTS that are speeding up warming are CAUSED BY PEOPLE.
Yes, lets drop the insulting `tone` that is prevalent amongst some of us here.