Technically they are paying a finders fee for items that are owned by blizzard. It is illegal to sell items, as they are owned by blizzard, and not the player.
The reason this is possible is because diablo 3 is a farming based game. In fact, that is the entire purpose of the game. to farm, endlessly. If I obtain an item that on average, would take 100 hours to farm; I am saving someone hours of their life, not having to farm it.
For someone who works 40+ hours a week at a decent job; they might be willing to pay 100 dollars to get some good gear, so the game is more enjoyable for them; and they dont have to spend a week playing through the same part of the game hoping that better gear than they use drops.
I personally feel it is silly to buy game items for money; since you should be playing games for fun. And in this case, even if you have the absolute best gear in the game, these is nothing you can do except continue to farm. I am not gonna judge people who give me money though.
The reason this is possible is because diablo 3 is a farming based game. In fact, that is the entire purpose of the game. to farm, endlessly. If I obtain an item that on average, would take 100 hours to farm; I am saving someone hours of their life, not having to farm it.
I find these types of games and the players who play them pathetic. Why not watch paint dry on the wall? Please note that I am not lumping you into this category because you are trying to make money. That is a different line of thinking altogether.
I personally feel it is silly to buy game items for money; since you should be playing games for fun. And in this case, even if you have the absolute best gear in the game, these is nothing you can do except continue to farm. I am not gonna judge people who give me money though.
I'll do that for you. People who farm/buy items for any reason other than making money are pathetic. I hope you guys realize that game companies are actively using psychology to pray on the weak of mind. Google "Skinner Box" for more information.
I have made 350 dollars so far. 2 more weeks before the end of my 30 days are up to; and I can return the game to blizzard and get my money back. (Assuming at that point, the game is still not worth playing)
No; I advertise on the forums to sell gear and gold. I send a paypal invoice that explains terms of the sale; then they send me money, then I send the item. I screen record the whole thing to ensure they cannont claim they were never given their item/gold; and I suggest to them to screen record if they believe I will not give them the item/gold. There really hasnt been much of a hassle though; most people know what they are doing when they are buying gold; and have trust in the system.
Also @Karawasa:
I played diablo 2 for a longgggg time; but I was too young to take initiative to actually sell my stuff at the time; I hoarded it instead. I must say, Diablo 2 did a much better way of hiding the fact that the entire game was based around farming endlessly. Diablo 3; the fact was well known during the beta phases; and 2 days after release, thousands of people were farming in inferno. Already, people have inferno diablo on farm. I am selling off the last of my gold today; and then selling my account for 200 more dollars. Should have a total profit of around 600 dollars (after subtracting the cost of the game) in 2 weeks of playing the game. Not amazing money; but considering I got to play through a game that I wanted to play through (twice) and get paid for it, I cannot complain at all. Once diablo 3 has a ladder, I will start playing again; to do the same thing over.
I am gonna take a week away from my PC; then prepare my map for 1.5.
I find these types of games and the players who play them pathetic. Why not watch paint dry on the wall? Please note that I am not lumping you into this category because you are trying to make money. That is a different line of thinking altogether.
I'll do that for you. People who farm/buy items for any reason other than making money are pathetic. I hope you guys realize that game companies are actively using psychology to pray on the weak of mind. Google "Skinner Box" for more information.
...and I can tell you the article is right. Game designers have a slight notion of cognitive sciences. This is something we actually study a bit to make it through game design graduation. I repeated it very often around here, but not anyone can become a good game/level designer. There are things like this you won't learn by yourself just by making custom maps, because you didn't even know there was a strong link between cognitive sciences and video games.
Basically, by "slight notion of cognitive sciences" I mean we know how brains work and what makes them want something. I said it earlier on other topics but it's a loop of fun, then challenge, then reward, all mixed up with a little bit of frustration to make you want even more. Pretty much like training your dog to jump over a fence for a candy, making a donkey walk for miles with a carrot on a stick, or inviting your hamster to pass through a maze of tubes before reaching his wheel. Yes, it's that insulting and demeaning. We're conditioning players to spend more time on our products and we force them to wish for more so that they'll end up loving it anyway, and will be in the mood to spend more money... Yes we're gurus, yes you're being brainwashed.
It works just like any media, in case you didn't notice. Look at your TV programs with their sponsors and advertisements, look how long it takes before a movie starts in any cinema, how many papers are dropped in our mailboxes... We advertise things because, when people are in a good mood for it (like "we've been waiting for this game for 15 years"), it will purely and simply work without any effort. People happy with their life won't buy, you buy things in HOPE to make your life better (basically, looking for fun because "life sucks"). This entire "parade" is just here to make people buy more, and trust me it works or they wouldn't spend millions in it! Once you're a little bit more aware of this scam you tend to buy less frenetically, and you're less affected by advertisement, but it doesn't make your life any better so you'll fall back into it at some point... I recommend the movie "99 Francs" which is partially about how manipulative the medias can be:
Of course not all video games are following this "make the player enjoy it like a hamster" policy on purpose, but they're still fucking with your brain anyway. Look at how Minecraft is done (farm like the crazy digger you are in dangerous caves, in search for the rare minerals needed to build this awesome whatever-it-is you don't even need but is supposed to make your life better), you'll understand pretty fast why it's so addictive even to casual players... Look at how Skyrim made us spend hours in search for quests and people to loot. Look at how Nintendo games are made: they're ugly but FUN, and that's exactly what people expect from video games. Fun, challenge, reward, and counter the "life sucks" effect at least for a moment. That's it.
No; I advertise on the forums to sell gear and gold. I send a paypal invoice that explains terms of the sale; then they send me money, then I send the item. I screen record the whole thing to ensure they cannont claim they were never given their item/gold; and I suggest to them to screen record if they believe I will not give them the item/gold. There really hasnt been much of a hassle though; most people know what they are doing when they are buying gold; and have trust in the system.
Not to be "that guy", and offtopic, but isn't what you are doing illegal? You're making profit of a game you didn't make or own the rights to, without conscent of Blizzard. The whole idea with the RMAH is not only to make transactions between players more secure but also to let Blizzard gets an additional share of every deal being made.
Not to mention you are selling diablo 3 accounts as of you were a third party seller.
There's a difference between 'addiction' and simply enjoying an activity. Glorn's being a materialist in it's purest form, which I consider more pathetic than playing a game.
There's a difference between 'addiction' and simply enjoying an activity. Glorn's being a materialist in it's purest form, which I consider more pathetic than playing a game.
I find these types of games and the players who play them pathetic. Why not watch paint dry on the wall? Please note that I am not lumping you into this category because you are trying to make money. That is a different line of thinking altogether.
So a pathetic activity gets reasonable for you as long as you do it to make money (probably in the 3-4$/hour margin at best)?
Illegal money even. Yeah, thats a nice point of view.
"Selling" items in diablo 3 is not illegal. I pointed out earlier that you are not selling ownership of a digital item; but you are getting paid a "finders fee" for possession of items in that game. I sell everything directly on the diablo 3 forums; blizzard is completely aware of all sales I make on items. I also make sure everyone buying from me knows that they are buying possession of a digital item, and will have no true ownership of the items. ...Again, people are happy to pay the money for the gold.
It is illegal to sell accounts; however, I did not sell my account. Rather, I stripped them down completely and sold off the item sets my characters were using.
@ Mozard: I did play the game and enjoy it a good bit. I did not start playing with the idea of "I am going to try to profit on this game." I simply got bored of the game fast, and found other people selling off all of their gold (on the official Diablo 3 forums) and thought, "Well, if I am done with the game, might as well cash in my chips." Many people are willing to pay $30 dollars per million gold; everyone I sold to was grateful to pay $20 dollars per million. I wasn't ripping anyone off, or trying to convince them it was a good deal. They all came to me, asking to buy the gold.
We all make SC2 maps. Say you make an insanely popular map, everyone loves it. "Super Map Numba One" it is called in Japan. Blizzard contacts you and says "We would really like to add your map to the arcade, and charge people 3 dollars to buy it." You say, "Ohh sure, I could do that." You are now cashing in on the time invested in your map; even if you never planned to make money from the map.
@Karawasa How much money have you made in donations from ele td? How much have you made from running ads on your website? Did you start making ele TD with those methods of money making in mind?
You're misunderstanding my argument. There's nothing wrong with making money of the RMAH in Diablo in my eyes. I just found it... disappointing that you felt the need to call everybody who 'farms' for enjoyment pathetic. It makes you appear as if you're feeling superior to people just because you make money of an activity you both undertake. It's the equivalent of calling a kid digging out a sandcastle stupid for not getting paid for it when you yourself make money by digging in construction.
I find these types of games and the players who play them pathetic. Why not watch paint dry on the wall? Please note that I am not lumping you into this category because you are trying to make money. That is a different line of thinking altogether.
I'll do that for you. People who farm/buy items for any reason other than making money are pathetic. I hope you guys realize that game companies are actively using psychology to pray on the weak of mind. Google "Skinner Box" for more information.
Care to point out a game that isn't a skinner box on some level?
There's a difference between 'addiction' and simply enjoying an activity. Glorn's being a materialist in it's purest form, which I consider more pathetic than playing a game.
Here is a definition for you; "the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming." I would argue that farming is an addiction. There is no logical reason why doing the same mundane task over and over again should be enjoyable by itself.
So a pathetic activity gets reasonable for you as long as you do it to make money (probably in the 3-4$/hour margin at best)?
Illegal money even. Yeah, thats a nice point of view.
Sigh. I suppose you would argue that cleaning toilets as a janitor is no less pathetic than doing it for fun.
@Karawasa How much money have you made in donations from ele td? How much have you made from running ads on your website? Did you start making ele TD with those methods of money making in mind?
I did not start ETD with the intention of making money. I did it because I was fed up with the state of TDs at the time. But when I launched the website it occurred to me that I should put ads on it. The ads have been the biggest source of income by far. Second would be the products (mainly mousepads). I've made over $20,000. Donations don't even account for 1% of that. Be wary of anyone claiming donations are enough.
But this will all (hopefully) be dwarfed by the sales of the mobile version. More details coming in the next few weeks.
I just found it... disappointing that you felt the need to call everybody who 'farms' for enjoyment pathetic. It makes you appear as if you're feeling superior to people just because you make money of an activity you both undertake. It's the equivalent of calling a kid digging out a sandcastle stupid for not getting paid for it when you yourself make money by digging in construction.
There is no such thing as farming for enjoyment. Anyone who does that will enjoy watching paint dry. You farm for the rewards you get. Your analogy fails by the way. You can't compare a one time event to something continuous. What you should have said;
"It's the equivalent of calling a kid digging out a sandcastle everyday for 8 hours stupid for not getting paid for it when you yourself make money by digging in construction as a job."
Care to point out a game that isn't a skinner box on some level?
No such game exists. This is not black and white though. There are shades of grey. There is a huge difference between a game that uses skinner box to add replayability to a good core and a game that uses skinner box as the core.
Sigh. I suppose you would argue that cleaning toilets as a janitor is no less pathetic than doing it for fun.
Cleaning toilets is not pathetic at all, it is a work that has to be done and is probably annoying for the one who has to do it so I wouldn't do it if I have another chance to earn my money. But I would never call honest work pathetic :)
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I dont have D3, so dont get mad at me, but how are you earning $$? Why are peolpe paying you? What are they paying you for?
Technically they are paying a finders fee for items that are owned by blizzard. It is illegal to sell items, as they are owned by blizzard, and not the player.
The reason this is possible is because diablo 3 is a farming based game. In fact, that is the entire purpose of the game. to farm, endlessly. If I obtain an item that on average, would take 100 hours to farm; I am saving someone hours of their life, not having to farm it.
For someone who works 40+ hours a week at a decent job; they might be willing to pay 100 dollars to get some good gear, so the game is more enjoyable for them; and they dont have to spend a week playing through the same part of the game hoping that better gear than they use drops.
I personally feel it is silly to buy game items for money; since you should be playing games for fun. And in this case, even if you have the absolute best gear in the game, these is nothing you can do except continue to farm. I am not gonna judge people who give me money though.
Skype: [email protected] Current Project: Custom Hero Arena! US: battlenet:://starcraft/map/1/263274 EU: battlenet:://starcraft/map/2/186418
I find these types of games and the players who play them pathetic. Why not watch paint dry on the wall? Please note that I am not lumping you into this category because you are trying to make money. That is a different line of thinking altogether.
I'll do that for you. People who farm/buy items for any reason other than making money are pathetic. I hope you guys realize that game companies are actively using psychology to pray on the weak of mind. Google "Skinner Box" for more information.
What a coincidence, I just read this two days ago: http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html Interesting read.
Wait. RMAH is available to NA?
"Wait. RMAH is available to NA?"
No; I advertise on the forums to sell gear and gold. I send a paypal invoice that explains terms of the sale; then they send me money, then I send the item. I screen record the whole thing to ensure they cannont claim they were never given their item/gold; and I suggest to them to screen record if they believe I will not give them the item/gold. There really hasnt been much of a hassle though; most people know what they are doing when they are buying gold; and have trust in the system.
Also @Karawasa:
I played diablo 2 for a longgggg time; but I was too young to take initiative to actually sell my stuff at the time; I hoarded it instead. I must say, Diablo 2 did a much better way of hiding the fact that the entire game was based around farming endlessly. Diablo 3; the fact was well known during the beta phases; and 2 days after release, thousands of people were farming in inferno. Already, people have inferno diablo on farm. I am selling off the last of my gold today; and then selling my account for 200 more dollars. Should have a total profit of around 600 dollars (after subtracting the cost of the game) in 2 weeks of playing the game. Not amazing money; but considering I got to play through a game that I wanted to play through (twice) and get paid for it, I cannot complain at all. Once diablo 3 has a ladder, I will start playing again; to do the same thing over.
I am gonna take a week away from my PC; then prepare my map for 1.5.
Skype: [email protected] Current Project: Custom Hero Arena! US: battlenet:://starcraft/map/1/263274 EU: battlenet:://starcraft/map/2/186418
Wow, more hate.
@Doubleclick123: Go
It's not hate. If you want to go waste your time on these games all the more power to you. It doesn't hurt me so why should I care?
...and I can tell you the article is right. Game designers have a slight notion of cognitive sciences. This is something we actually study a bit to make it through game design graduation. I repeated it very often around here, but not anyone can become a good game/level designer. There are things like this you won't learn by yourself just by making custom maps, because you didn't even know there was a strong link between cognitive sciences and video games.
Basically, by "slight notion of cognitive sciences" I mean we know how brains work and what makes them want something. I said it earlier on other topics but it's a loop of fun, then challenge, then reward, all mixed up with a little bit of frustration to make you want even more. Pretty much like training your dog to jump over a fence for a candy, making a donkey walk for miles with a carrot on a stick, or inviting your hamster to pass through a maze of tubes before reaching his wheel. Yes, it's that insulting and demeaning. We're conditioning players to spend more time on our products and we force them to wish for more so that they'll end up loving it anyway, and will be in the mood to spend more money... Yes we're gurus, yes you're being brainwashed.
It works just like any media, in case you didn't notice. Look at your TV programs with their sponsors and advertisements, look how long it takes before a movie starts in any cinema, how many papers are dropped in our mailboxes... We advertise things because, when people are in a good mood for it (like "we've been waiting for this game for 15 years"), it will purely and simply work without any effort. People happy with their life won't buy, you buy things in HOPE to make your life better (basically, looking for fun because "life sucks"). This entire "parade" is just here to make people buy more, and trust me it works or they wouldn't spend millions in it! Once you're a little bit more aware of this scam you tend to buy less frenetically, and you're less affected by advertisement, but it doesn't make your life any better so you'll fall back into it at some point... I recommend the movie "99 Francs" which is partially about how manipulative the medias can be:
Of course not all video games are following this "make the player enjoy it like a hamster" policy on purpose, but they're still fucking with your brain anyway. Look at how Minecraft is done (farm like the crazy digger you are in dangerous caves, in search for the rare minerals needed to build this awesome whatever-it-is you don't even need but is supposed to make your life better), you'll understand pretty fast why it's so addictive even to casual players... Look at how Skyrim made us spend hours in search for quests and people to loot. Look at how Nintendo games are made: they're ugly but FUN, and that's exactly what people expect from video games. Fun, challenge, reward, and counter the "life sucks" effect at least for a moment. That's it.
Why you hating on me now? ):
Not to be "that guy", and offtopic, but isn't what you are doing illegal? You're making profit of a game you didn't make or own the rights to, without conscent of Blizzard. The whole idea with the RMAH is not only to make transactions between players more secure but also to let Blizzard gets an additional share of every deal being made.
Not to mention you are selling diablo 3 accounts as of you were a third party seller.
There's a difference between 'addiction' and simply enjoying an activity. Glorn's being a materialist in it's purest form, which I consider more pathetic than playing a game.
This is why I like Mozared.
So a pathetic activity gets reasonable for you as long as you do it to make money (probably in the 3-4$/hour margin at best)?
Illegal money even. Yeah, thats a nice point of view.
"Selling" items in diablo 3 is not illegal. I pointed out earlier that you are not selling ownership of a digital item; but you are getting paid a "finders fee" for possession of items in that game. I sell everything directly on the diablo 3 forums; blizzard is completely aware of all sales I make on items. I also make sure everyone buying from me knows that they are buying possession of a digital item, and will have no true ownership of the items. ...Again, people are happy to pay the money for the gold.
It is illegal to sell accounts; however, I did not sell my account. Rather, I stripped them down completely and sold off the item sets my characters were using.
@ Mozard: I did play the game and enjoy it a good bit. I did not start playing with the idea of "I am going to try to profit on this game." I simply got bored of the game fast, and found other people selling off all of their gold (on the official Diablo 3 forums) and thought, "Well, if I am done with the game, might as well cash in my chips." Many people are willing to pay $30 dollars per million gold; everyone I sold to was grateful to pay $20 dollars per million. I wasn't ripping anyone off, or trying to convince them it was a good deal. They all came to me, asking to buy the gold.
We all make SC2 maps. Say you make an insanely popular map, everyone loves it. "Super Map Numba One" it is called in Japan. Blizzard contacts you and says "We would really like to add your map to the arcade, and charge people 3 dollars to buy it." You say, "Ohh sure, I could do that." You are now cashing in on the time invested in your map; even if you never planned to make money from the map.
@Karawasa How much money have you made in donations from ele td? How much have you made from running ads on your website? Did you start making ele TD with those methods of money making in mind?
== Someone looking to buy gold at 20/mill ==
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5638004642
Even better, 34 pages of posts; from people who want to buy gold:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/search?q=wtb gold&f=post&forum=3354991
101 pages of people selling gold
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/search?q=wts gold&f=post&forum=3354991
Skype: [email protected] Current Project: Custom Hero Arena! US: battlenet:://starcraft/map/1/263274 EU: battlenet:://starcraft/map/2/186418
@GlornII: Go
You're misunderstanding my argument. There's nothing wrong with making money of the RMAH in Diablo in my eyes. I just found it... disappointing that you felt the need to call everybody who 'farms' for enjoyment pathetic. It makes you appear as if you're feeling superior to people just because you make money of an activity you both undertake. It's the equivalent of calling a kid digging out a sandcastle stupid for not getting paid for it when you yourself make money by digging in construction.
I don't like X so nobody should like X.
Care to point out a game that isn't a skinner box on some level?
Here is a definition for you; "the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming." I would argue that farming is an addiction. There is no logical reason why doing the same mundane task over and over again should be enjoyable by itself.
Sigh. I suppose you would argue that cleaning toilets as a janitor is no less pathetic than doing it for fun.
I did not start ETD with the intention of making money. I did it because I was fed up with the state of TDs at the time. But when I launched the website it occurred to me that I should put ads on it. The ads have been the biggest source of income by far. Second would be the products (mainly mousepads). I've made over $20,000. Donations don't even account for 1% of that. Be wary of anyone claiming donations are enough.
But this will all (hopefully) be dwarfed by the sales of the mobile version. More details coming in the next few weeks.
There is no such thing as farming for enjoyment. Anyone who does that will enjoy watching paint dry. You farm for the rewards you get. Your analogy fails by the way. You can't compare a one time event to something continuous. What you should have said;
"It's the equivalent of calling a kid digging out a sandcastle everyday for 8 hours stupid for not getting paid for it when you yourself make money by digging in construction as a job."
Hmm....
When did I say everyone has to agree with me? In fact, I led off with "I find" to indicate this was a personal viewpoint.
No such game exists. This is not black and white though. There are shades of grey. There is a huge difference between a game that uses skinner box to add replayability to a good core and a game that uses skinner box as the core.
Cleaning toilets is not pathetic at all, it is a work that has to be done and is probably annoying for the one who has to do it so I wouldn't do it if I have another chance to earn my money. But I would never call honest work pathetic :)