I don't believe in banning as a solution to these trolls. But when you want them to listen to you and take you seriously, it works...
I saw it work only for a few months, honestly he does the same things. I do believe you need to talk about ReeferFist's behavior with the other admins, for they are more active. Even some surveying from other players could be helpful.
Blizz games sold with an editor have a tos that protect them from anything/anyone using said editor.
In the case of the editor, it states that if "one" player makes a complaint after playing your map.. feeling that his experience was "impaired" from playing your map.. blizz will "take action" (the map will be banned from use on their platform). And it happens!
The lowest denominator calls the shots. (a map that bans identified players can be banned in a matter of seconds)
There is nothing done about map-hackers or people blocking lobbies ; no, sorry the auto launch is a band-aid on a chopped limb, it does not help get games going, nor does it feel right to let these "perps" ruin many other players fun in this fashion.
The "experience" on arcade games is a group experience.. when individuals ruin this group dynamic, it is blizz that loses the most credit.. no one else..
Being a fossil .. i'm really surprised at blizz's lack of insight in these matters...What i mean is that it makes it feel like their platform is not trustworthy.. not good.
in the case of pc, waiting for 12 players is anti climactic not to mention bad for the games (the more players = more lag). Most people who try it for the first time do not wait for 15 minutes in a lobby!
The complete absence of efforts for the community on this front is unworthy of a serious company, not to mention that they become "like every other company out there" .. "just out for a buck and f u if you use our products".
Bad bad 21st century as far as "communities" go.. hope the next will see us saved, not holding my breath though...
Just block him and be done with it. Sounds like you have taken every possible act to reconcile with this person. 99% of the time people are misunderstood or there is some kind of miscommunication between people. Good on you for trying, but it sounds like this guy is the 1%.
His own actions lie on himself. You are not responsible for his actions and him trying to blackmail people with worse behaviour if he doesn't get his way does not make it any more your responsibility what HE does.
As for people claiming it's against TOS I guess that's up for interpretation. You're not allowed to discriminate against players? Good, you're not. You're discriminating against behaviour. The blocked persons experience of the game is exactly the same experience as everyone elses. If you have a policy of blocking players who deliberately cause grief and have shown no interest in participating in the community and apply that policy across the board then you have not discriminated against anybody.
I remember constant whining from people who got blocked from mafia on the Bnet forums. There are literally hundreds of posts across many different threads spanning 2 years complaining that they got blocked. The first reference I found was from 6th Janruary 2012 and the last was over 2 years later saying the same practice continues on the 9th of february 2014. Blizzard has even responded to these complaints and their response was effectively "STFU. We know, we just don't care", which I would say is the correct response to someone complaining they were blocked for harassing inocent people.
What I would recomend for you to do? If someone continuously harasses people then publish a second version of the map under a modified name. Say your map is called x, publish a modified map called "x (no bans)" and disable the ban system on the second version. If someone is banned on the origional map have an automated message directing them to the other version. Anyone who wants to play the second version is free to do so. I think it is best summerized in this xkcd comic: http://xkcd.com/1357/
He is free to behave however he wants, you're not stopping him. But at the same time you are free to behave how you want, and what you want is the freedom to hang out with and form groups with people who are friendly.
The blocked persons experience of the game is exactly the same experience as everyone elses. If you have a policy of blocking players who deliberately cause grief and have shown no interest in participating in the community and apply that policy across the board then you have not discriminated against anybody
He does indeed fall under this category of causing intentional grief, but at the same time shows interest in the community and it's politics (Administrational and events mostly), but he does not support it which leads to somewhat of a fallacy.
If someone continuously harasses people then publish a second version of the map under a modified name.
We are not that desperate to make a separate map just yet now, maybe if the game were to be maniacally out control would we resort to publishing a second map, but that is actually a good idea for map developers having an intense situation, but here is not the case.
Just block him and be done with it
Is blocking different from banning? (I am unfamiliar with what you mean)
I meant auto kick (ban) and if he keeps pestering you with abuse or complaints then block communication using Bnets block communication tool. Lifes too short to waste on negative people.
Sorry if you are misslead .. but the tos is bad and if maffia hasn't been bothered by complains, it is because of the map's success.
If you take other maps (some quite famous or infamous like "Debates") .. these maps were taken down.
Blizz's intent is to not have to deal with these issues, and that is wrong.. wrong pr wise, wrong 'value" wise and just basically wrong.
Their report function is just there for show and that is sad.
Many players reporting a particular individual, with replays (even though intent lag for instance does not register well in these) and screenshots etc .. to support their claims.. (this over YEARS) .. and nothing is done ??
Can we all get together and make a petition for this to be send to Blizz, I personaly havent had this problem but i seen a lot of people getting harraze almost everyday out 8 games at least ones everyday. I will put my name on it but a regular SHMOE will not do. It has to be somebody from SC2mapster that has connections.
arcade and custom games content: not blizz's problem
ladder: blizz monitors and checks "cheaters" that show up "live" (never act against them though, since none have reportedly done it)
Why the double standard?
Since the ladder also offers a tournament invite (if you qualify.. 1% does), cheaters technically (depending on the laws/countries involved) can cost blizz money .. if someone cheated out of those invites makes a formal complaint and wins ...
To avoid the TOS problem that myself and other have pointed out (Adding a specific persons name to a list so that specific person cannot play is considered an attack on an individual, NOT an attack on behavior) you could create a "ladder-like" ban system that would not be error-proof, but if your game is popular, would work well enough.
Many people understand the concept of an unofficial leaderboard, that is, where all players every game, compare their saved bank data to see between all of them, who has seen a player with the highest score. This way, generally, the highest score ever achieved in your game is usually known by all within a short time. It is not 100%, and is not instant; however, it can spread fast; and something like a ban list is permanent .
you would only need to create a vote-ban system, or an in-game report system; then if a player has been reported X times or something; they are automatically banned. This would allow it to be considered a game mechanic, and not something that alters the game for choice individuals.
I would really like to think that blizzard would have at some type of sub division that put time in to sort through problems in arcade, but I guess that's what makes admins that are assigned to a specific map unique.
no1 cares if there is a banlist in your map or not. blizz will do nothing against it (having one for over 2 years now). why would they add something like a player handle in the first place, this screams out loud "banlist". they will only care if it shall be part of an contest or whatsoever, then they have to work to rule (as they did with aircraft and copyright infringement), the whole rest doesnt matter.
If the lobby is your problem then you're out of luck, because you have no control over lobbies. Just ignore the guy and he'll get bored eventually.
Yes, the worst thing you can do is give him attention/recognition in anyway. Ignore his existence. People like that can be found in just about any online community unfortunately.
One thing you could try is to have a whole bunch of people report the abuse to Blizzard, with all of you presenting any evidence you may have. You could also try calling Blizzard, then you'd at least be able to talk to someone. If they don't respond to that, complain on Blizzard's forums, and try to attract a lot of attention. Blizzard probably won't respond unless there are multiple people complaining. If you attract a lot of attention, then in theory you may be able to get somewhere.
Other than that, you can ban his account and IP from your forums, and you can put up a public warning on your map letting players know that he is worthless and should be ignored.
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on pc we have our own lot of lobby blockers and cheaters
the solution is indeed "forced" dialog
however,
some people are just lost causes ...
and indeed, it is the community that suffers since "newcomers" are distraught and fear such "goings on"
(when players type aggressively towards one player in lobby or in game or when they are asked to join a party..etc)
..
"some people just like to watch the world burn"
..
so then,
the only possible thing is dialog with the other players (newcomers mostly), to get everyone in the lobby but the "intruder" into a party/new lobby
..
this is however not agreable to do and leaves the problem unsolved
being a fossil i really am surprised by blizz's flagrant lack of action vs these party ruiners :(
I don't believe in banning as a solution to these trolls. But when you want them to listen to you and take you seriously, it works...
I saw it work only for a few months, honestly he does the same things. I do believe you need to talk about ReeferFist's behavior with the other admins, for they are more active. Even some surveying from other players could be helpful.
Would any of you like to briefly explain the TOS reference?
Blizz games sold with an editor have a tos that protect them from anything/anyone using said editor.
In the case of the editor, it states that if "one" player makes a complaint after playing your map.. feeling that his experience was "impaired" from playing your map.. blizz will "take action" (the map will be banned from use on their platform). And it happens!
The lowest denominator calls the shots. (a map that bans identified players can be banned in a matter of seconds)
There is nothing done about map-hackers or people blocking lobbies ; no, sorry the auto launch is a band-aid on a chopped limb, it does not help get games going, nor does it feel right to let these "perps" ruin many other players fun in this fashion.
The "experience" on arcade games is a group experience.. when individuals ruin this group dynamic, it is blizz that loses the most credit.. no one else..
Being a fossil .. i'm really surprised at blizz's lack of insight in these matters...What i mean is that it makes it feel like their platform is not trustworthy.. not good.
in the case of pc, waiting for 12 players is anti climactic not to mention bad for the games (the more players = more lag). Most people who try it for the first time do not wait for 15 minutes in a lobby!
The complete absence of efforts for the community on this front is unworthy of a serious company, not to mention that they become "like every other company out there" .. "just out for a buck and f u if you use our products".
Bad bad 21st century as far as "communities" go.. hope the next will see us saved, not holding my breath though...
Just block him and be done with it. Sounds like you have taken every possible act to reconcile with this person. 99% of the time people are misunderstood or there is some kind of miscommunication between people. Good on you for trying, but it sounds like this guy is the 1%.
His own actions lie on himself. You are not responsible for his actions and him trying to blackmail people with worse behaviour if he doesn't get his way does not make it any more your responsibility what HE does.
As for people claiming it's against TOS I guess that's up for interpretation. You're not allowed to discriminate against players? Good, you're not. You're discriminating against behaviour. The blocked persons experience of the game is exactly the same experience as everyone elses. If you have a policy of blocking players who deliberately cause grief and have shown no interest in participating in the community and apply that policy across the board then you have not discriminated against anybody.
I remember constant whining from people who got blocked from mafia on the Bnet forums. There are literally hundreds of posts across many different threads spanning 2 years complaining that they got blocked. The first reference I found was from 6th Janruary 2012 and the last was over 2 years later saying the same practice continues on the 9th of february 2014. Blizzard has even responded to these complaints and their response was effectively "STFU. We know, we just don't care", which I would say is the correct response to someone complaining they were blocked for harassing inocent people.
sources:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3870838249
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11675667816
What I would recomend for you to do? If someone continuously harasses people then publish a second version of the map under a modified name. Say your map is called x, publish a modified map called "x (no bans)" and disable the ban system on the second version. If someone is banned on the origional map have an automated message directing them to the other version. Anyone who wants to play the second version is free to do so. I think it is best summerized in this xkcd comic: http://xkcd.com/1357/
He is free to behave however he wants, you're not stopping him. But at the same time you are free to behave how you want, and what you want is the freedom to hang out with and form groups with people who are friendly.
@finiteturtles: Go
The blocked persons experience of the game is exactly the same experience as everyone elses. If you have a policy of blocking players who deliberately cause grief and have shown no interest in participating in the community and apply that policy across the board then you have not discriminated against anybody
He does indeed fall under this category of causing intentional grief, but at the same time shows interest in the community and it's politics (Administrational and events mostly), but he does not support it which leads to somewhat of a fallacy.
If someone continuously harasses people then publish a second version of the map under a modified name.
We are not that desperate to make a separate map just yet now, maybe if the game were to be maniacally out control would we resort to publishing a second map, but that is actually a good idea for map developers having an intense situation, but here is not the case.
Just block him and be done with it
Is blocking different from banning? (I am unfamiliar with what you mean)
@Datasick: Go
I meant auto kick (ban) and if he keeps pestering you with abuse or complaints then block communication using Bnets block communication tool. Lifes too short to waste on negative people.
Sorry if you are misslead .. but the tos is bad and if maffia hasn't been bothered by complains, it is because of the map's success.
If you take other maps (some quite famous or infamous like "Debates") .. these maps were taken down.
Blizz's intent is to not have to deal with these issues, and that is wrong.. wrong pr wise, wrong 'value" wise and just basically wrong.
Their report function is just there for show and that is sad.
Many players reporting a particular individual, with replays (even though intent lag for instance does not register well in these) and screenshots etc .. to support their claims.. (this over YEARS) .. and nothing is done ??
bad blizz
Can we all get together and make a petition for this to be send to Blizz, I personaly havent had this problem but i seen a lot of people getting harraze almost everyday out 8 games at least ones everyday. I will put my name on it but a regular SHMOE will not do. It has to be somebody from SC2mapster that has connections.
Funny fact:
arcade and custom games content: not blizz's problem
ladder: blizz monitors and checks "cheaters" that show up "live" (never act against them though, since none have reportedly done it)
Why the double standard?
Since the ladder also offers a tournament invite (if you qualify.. 1% does), cheaters technically (depending on the laws/countries involved) can cost blizz money .. if someone cheated out of those invites makes a formal complaint and wins ...
To avoid the TOS problem that myself and other have pointed out (Adding a specific persons name to a list so that specific person cannot play is considered an attack on an individual, NOT an attack on behavior) you could create a "ladder-like" ban system that would not be error-proof, but if your game is popular, would work well enough.
Many people understand the concept of an unofficial leaderboard, that is, where all players every game, compare their saved bank data to see between all of them, who has seen a player with the highest score. This way, generally, the highest score ever achieved in your game is usually known by all within a short time. It is not 100%, and is not instant; however, it can spread fast; and something like a ban list is permanent .
you would only need to create a vote-ban system, or an in-game report system; then if a player has been reported X times or something; they are automatically banned. This would allow it to be considered a game mechanic, and not something that alters the game for choice individuals.
Skype: [email protected] Current Project: Custom Hero Arena! US: battlenet:://starcraft/map/1/263274 EU: battlenet:://starcraft/map/2/186418
I would really like to think that blizzard would have at some type of sub division that put time in to sort through problems in arcade, but I guess that's what makes admins that are assigned to a specific map unique.
I would really like players to be more pro active towards "party poopers" like the one we have had for more than 2 years..
.. blocking lobbies for half hour
.. making the game lag during play
being a douche .. over and over again
.. just don't forget when you go create a new lobby, to invite and explain the plight to new comers, so they do not suffer from these pests!
no1 cares if there is a banlist in your map or not. blizz will do nothing against it (having one for over 2 years now). why would they add something like a player handle in the first place, this screams out loud "banlist". they will only care if it shall be part of an contest or whatsoever, then they have to work to rule (as they did with aircraft and copyright infringement), the whole rest doesnt matter.
@FunkyUserName: Go
Maybe for negative people it screams that. For awesome people like me it screams special map maker testing powers in multiplayer! haha
I suppose if you have a map on the popular list they are even less likely to take action.
@MasterWrath: Go
There were maps that were not popular yet had a banlist?
Personally, I don't think Blizzard has that kind of tendency.
I just think they don't act upon these things, plain and simple.
Member since 2010. Made the -The Thing- [Revival] game. Nostalgic of the WC3 days.
Yes, the worst thing you can do is give him attention/recognition in anyway. Ignore his existence. People like that can be found in just about any online community unfortunately.
One thing you could try is to have a whole bunch of people report the abuse to Blizzard, with all of you presenting any evidence you may have. You could also try calling Blizzard, then you'd at least be able to talk to someone. If they don't respond to that, complain on Blizzard's forums, and try to attract a lot of attention. Blizzard probably won't respond unless there are multiple people complaining. If you attract a lot of attention, then in theory you may be able to get somewhere.
Other than that, you can ban his account and IP from your forums, and you can put up a public warning on your map letting players know that he is worthless and should be ignored.