I don't know the answer to either of those questions, shamefully. This is the project page, and there's also a website but I can't seem to find the URL of that right now. The whole thing is still very active, it's just really quiet around it - Bronxsy and me have been doing the terrain, and I know EternalWraith (the project leader) has some other folks around doing the triggers and data. I reckon you'll notice the map once it gets released though.
Ok. This is obviously a troll thread, but whatever.
I dont find myself having time to play custom maps, but Ive played Sotis a few times and I think;
Its good. Not perfect but at the same time, Certainly not terrible or crap. Its the Best DotA clone for Sc2 at the moment(Enjoyed HotaT too). I`d rather play it than most custom maps on the list.
Eckolnovkol is a good designer. I personally have some respect for the guy in regard to what he`s accomplished with Sotis. Im impressed.
However. We have to realize that the Starcraft Universe/Heroes/Units and even the game engine is not as attuned for such game play as was the case with Warcraft 3. It can suffice, but not excel.
Like, I loved playing er, Abaddon?, the Death knight from DotA. The Eggon.Stentman traslation in Sotis however, isn`t quite as appealing:/. Even the fluidity of Wc3 Dota cant really seem to be matched. Comes down to the engine.
And finally making the best of the limited(and lackluster) unit models and designs we have for Sc2 is another story..
End of the day. DotA/Sotis/ANYTHING is not going to end up appealing to everyone. That being for entirely different reasons based on the individuals. Simple as that.
For the record, What Im working on is not really like Dota. Very much different. I also dont like the notion of competition or things like that, So, please lets keep that out of discussion;p
No no, you misunderstand, it is very much the opposite. There is huge potential remaining in the dota genre, I simply do not think Sotis bought enough of it to the table.
There is always going to be a fine line between innovation and having things similar enough that you can pull people from the crowd. Sotis is close enough to Dota/Hon/LoL that players from those games should be able to pick up Sotis very easily - this no doubt is intentional as it gives Sotis the biggest possible fan base. However, I do not believe it evolves enough away from the gameplay. It may very well do this in time, but I would like to see it evolve a little faster.
FYI, I facepalmed RCIX because I read his signature.
Sotis is more to the orginal, but for anybody complaining he didnt innovate dota enough is living in lies.
Because lets face it, You innovate to much in that map , you loose what is dota.
Has anyone here played City of Tempest? , i mean thats basically dota, but a whole new take on it. But guess what? it wont ever be as good as DOTA and i dont think it has a chance of dethroning SOTIS. ( blizzards dota will though because its another clone closer to the original, ppl dont want innovation.)
Starbattle is another take on Dota in its own right, I mean what do ppl really want SOTIS to do for innovation, become like these maps? Face it, ppl do not like innovation on already established game types, Change around the heroes , make new items sure, but dont mess with the core.
I see the creator of Sotis take alot of bashing for things that are out of his control, Including me on my map,so i know exactly how he must be feeling .
What i find truely funny however, is that the most hurtful critisum always comes from other map makers. It never comes from the players.. If Sotis was such a piece of shit as most ppl make it out to be from here, then why is it always the top 1 or 2 map on the list?.. Deep down inside ALOT of ppl like sotis.
I always say, new game, new engine, if you dont like, Just dont fucking play. Warcraft 3 is still there, Go play that. But you know what>? Even despite how good Dota is on war3. And old game is an OLD game, If it truely is that good, war3 wouldnt be the abandoned mess it is right now. You cant fill a single game if its not DOTA or footmen frenzy 5.4 AR and not even dota is filling as fast as it did before. Nothing will attract players. Ppl dont abondon games just for the sake of abonding, So as i said , and old game is an OLD game.
Accept sc2 engine for what it is. Another funny thing is, Down the line like maybe (8 years from now) , there will be the same nostiliga effect on whatever other new RTS game blizzard makes, Where everybody will be saying, God dammit, none of the games are as good as starcraft 2 customs.
The cycle will keep repeating it self. We truely dont know what we have till its gone.
Sotis faces issues with massive memory leaks - which cause lag, lack of good content, lack it team-oriented items (in high level dota the choice of items was very much changed from pub play. So much so that they made rules for it in most leagues and turnies.
Also lack of imaginative content. Who wants the same heros over and over again?
Lack of content item, hero, and skill compatibility wise. All heroes can practically use the same items and it'll be fine. Basicially it needs a lot of work over a large time period. I'd rather dota, but I'd rather dota on a new engine if anything.
Sotis faces issues with massive memory leaks - which cause lag, lack of good content, lack it team-oriented items (in high level dota the choice of items was very much changed from pub play. So much so that they made rules for it in most leagues and turnies.
Also lack of imaginative content. Who wants the same heros over and over again?
How do you memory leak in galaxy without trying really hard?
You take an axe and punch a few holes into the map. It'll leak alright then.
However, the map's popularity speaks for itself. Most of the hate was carried over from Warcraft 3 I guess. Not that DotA was bad per-se, but it was EVERYWHERE and the players gradually became elitist assholes (which spoiled me the few times I actually played it publicly). Like - first public game I ever played I got banned for feeding.
Ok. This is obviously a troll thread, but whatever.
Bleh. Why do people call threads "troll threads" whenever it gets into a heated argument? I'm not trying to troll :( Just trying to figure out why people don't like SotIS. It's just, up to now, no one's given a reason that made much sense to me. :P
I don't understand this thread. You ask why people don't like the map and then get defensive about the map and tell them why they should like it...
If you really wanted feedback then you wouldn't get defensive about the map.
People that like it, will play it and the people that don't like it, wont play it. Case closed.
I just feel like SotIS is being hated on for things it either can't do anything about or hasn't had enough of a chance to fix yet. As others have pointed out elsewhere, making maps is a labor of love and this necessarily limits the scope of what can be done over a period of time.
Lack of content item, hero, and skill compatibility wise. All heroes can practically use the same items and it'll be fine. Basicially it needs a lot of work over a large time period. I'd rather dota, but I'd rather dota on a new engine if anything.
The hero thing can only be fixed in time; making heroes takes a lot of effort because not only do you have to create the actual abilities, you need to balance them into the existing game.
However, Sotis 4 will probably fix most other complaints. I hate to be so cryptic, but i was sworn to secrecy and it should be coming any day now :P
Without reading existing replies and to answer OP directly.
Because it is literally a complete copy of Dota without barely any imagination put into it. Nothing about it feels like he tried to be innovative. Apart from that of course it's very unpolished.
This kinda shows that ecko can't win: if he doesn't innovate, then there are complaints that he's just copying DotA. If he does, then people complain because it's not similar enough...
This is because he was doing it wrong in the first place - he made a clone of Dota, even labelling his map as Dota-Allstars - this was no doubt the easy way to get players, but now you are in the position where people will judge and judge and compare it to Dota, because he himself first made the comparision, it is his own stupid fault, that is why his map is judge so harshly, because by the greater community they could very well think he cheated to get his popularity.
The theme change is less of a change than HoN and LoL ... that doesn't count ... change team name A, to team name B, does not consititute originality. The rune creeps are the only good idea eck ever came up with, the "unique" heroes are like lawl ... same formula, they are not unique mate. If he really wanted to be unique he would have came up with a whole new way of getting abilities, leveling up etc.
This kinda shows that ecko can't win: if he doesn't innovate, then there are complaints that he's just copying DotA. If he does, then people complain because it's not similar enough...
Well I think those must be different people, but yes, that seems true. ______
People have an unreasonable hate of SotIS/DotA, because other people have an unreasonable love of SotIS/DotA.
Yes it's a pretty good game. But it isn't the BEST game, or the most impressive.
As well, map makers get annoyed when people go on and on about AoSs (DotA/SotIS), because people obsess over them to the exclusion of other games. Other games made by those mappers.
Well I think those must be different people, but yes, that seems true.
__
People have an unreasonable hate of SotIS/DotA, because other people have an unreasonable love of SotIS/DotA.
Yes it's a pretty good game. But it isn't the BEST game, or the most impressive.
As well, map makers get annoyed when people go on and on about AoSs (DotA/SotIS), because people obsess over them to the exclusion of other games. Other games made by those mappers.
Wrong, I don't like Sotis cause it's not good. I love dota and hon and other aos maps.
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I don't know the answer to either of those questions, shamefully. This is the project page, and there's also a website but I can't seem to find the URL of that right now. The whole thing is still very active, it's just really quiet around it - Bronxsy and me have been doing the terrain, and I know EternalWraith (the project leader) has some other folks around doing the triggers and data. I reckon you'll notice the map once it gets released though.
I found the site for AoS2 but unfortunately its only a forum which is locked for non-staff members =P
Looking forward to see the map come out.
Ok. This is obviously a troll thread, but whatever.
I dont find myself having time to play custom maps, but Ive played Sotis a few times and I think;
Its good. Not perfect but at the same time, Certainly not terrible or crap. Its the Best DotA clone for Sc2 at the moment(Enjoyed HotaT too). I`d rather play it than most custom maps on the list.
Eckolnovkol is a good designer. I personally have some respect for the guy in regard to what he`s accomplished with Sotis. Im impressed.
However. We have to realize that the Starcraft Universe/Heroes/Units and even the game engine is not as attuned for such game play as was the case with Warcraft 3. It can suffice, but not excel.
Like, I loved playing er, Abaddon?, the Death knight from DotA. The Eggon.Stentman traslation in Sotis however, isn`t quite as appealing:/. Even the fluidity of Wc3 Dota cant really seem to be matched. Comes down to the engine.
And finally making the best of the limited(and lackluster) unit models and designs we have for Sc2 is another story..
End of the day. DotA/Sotis/ANYTHING is not going to end up appealing to everyone. That being for entirely different reasons based on the individuals. Simple as that.
For the record, What Im working on is not really like Dota. Very much different. I also dont like the notion of competition or things like that, So, please lets keep that out of discussion;p
@tacticmove: Go
No no, you misunderstand, it is very much the opposite. There is huge potential remaining in the dota genre, I simply do not think Sotis bought enough of it to the table.
There is always going to be a fine line between innovation and having things similar enough that you can pull people from the crowd. Sotis is close enough to Dota/Hon/LoL that players from those games should be able to pick up Sotis very easily - this no doubt is intentional as it gives Sotis the biggest possible fan base. However, I do not believe it evolves enough away from the gameplay. It may very well do this in time, but I would like to see it evolve a little faster.
FYI, I facepalmed RCIX because I read his signature.
@b0ne123: Go
Ugh, this -^
not sure what you guys even talking about ..
Sotis is more to the orginal, but for anybody complaining he didnt innovate dota enough is living in lies.
Because lets face it, You innovate to much in that map , you loose what is dota.
Has anyone here played City of Tempest? , i mean thats basically dota, but a whole new take on it. But guess what? it wont ever be as good as DOTA and i dont think it has a chance of dethroning SOTIS. ( blizzards dota will though because its another clone closer to the original, ppl dont want innovation.)
Starbattle is another take on Dota in its own right, I mean what do ppl really want SOTIS to do for innovation, become like these maps? Face it, ppl do not like innovation on already established game types, Change around the heroes , make new items sure, but dont mess with the core.
I see the creator of Sotis take alot of bashing for things that are out of his control, Including me on my map,so i know exactly how he must be feeling .
What i find truely funny however, is that the most hurtful critisum always comes from other map makers. It never comes from the players.. If Sotis was such a piece of shit as most ppl make it out to be from here, then why is it always the top 1 or 2 map on the list?.. Deep down inside ALOT of ppl like sotis.
I always say, new game, new engine, if you dont like, Just dont fucking play. Warcraft 3 is still there, Go play that. But you know what>? Even despite how good Dota is on war3. And old game is an OLD game, If it truely is that good, war3 wouldnt be the abandoned mess it is right now. You cant fill a single game if its not DOTA or footmen frenzy 5.4 AR and not even dota is filling as fast as it did before. Nothing will attract players. Ppl dont abondon games just for the sake of abonding, So as i said , and old game is an OLD game.
Accept sc2 engine for what it is. Another funny thing is, Down the line like maybe (8 years from now) , there will be the same nostiliga effect on whatever other new RTS game blizzard makes, Where everybody will be saying, God dammit, none of the games are as good as starcraft 2 customs.
The cycle will keep repeating it self. We truely dont know what we have till its gone.
@Mozared: Go
Sotis faces issues with massive memory leaks - which cause lag, lack of good content, lack it team-oriented items (in high level dota the choice of items was very much changed from pub play. So much so that they made rules for it in most leagues and turnies.
Also lack of imaginative content. Who wants the same heros over and over again?
Lack of content item, hero, and skill compatibility wise. All heroes can practically use the same items and it'll be fine. Basicially it needs a lot of work over a large time period. I'd rather dota, but I'd rather dota on a new engine if anything.
I don't understand this thread. You ask why people don't like the map and then get defensive about the map and tell them why they should like it...
If you really wanted feedback then you wouldn't get defensive about the map.
People that like it, will play it and the people that don't like it, wont play it. Case closed.
...
How do you memory leak in galaxy without trying really hard?
@Mephs: Go
You take an axe and punch a few holes into the map. It'll leak alright then.
However, the map's popularity speaks for itself. Most of the hate was carried over from Warcraft 3 I guess. Not that DotA was bad per-se, but it was EVERYWHERE and the players gradually became elitist assholes (which spoiled me the few times I actually played it publicly). Like - first public game I ever played I got banned for feeding.
@Mephs: Go
Elaborating would be nice.
Bleh. Why do people call threads "troll threads" whenever it gets into a heated argument? I'm not trying to troll :( Just trying to figure out why people don't like SotIS. It's just, up to now, no one's given a reason that made much sense to me. :P
I just feel like SotIS is being hated on for things it either can't do anything about or hasn't had enough of a chance to fix yet. As others have pointed out elsewhere, making maps is a labor of love and this necessarily limits the scope of what can be done over a period of time.
The hero thing can only be fixed in time; making heroes takes a lot of effort because not only do you have to create the actual abilities, you need to balance them into the existing game.
However, Sotis 4 will probably fix most other complaints. I hate to be so cryptic, but i was sworn to secrecy and it should be coming any day now :P
I love Dota and Hon but Sotis just isn't polished, it looks bad, plays bad and just does not interest me.
Without reading existing replies and to answer OP directly.
Because it is literally a complete copy of Dota without barely any imagination put into it. Nothing about it feels like he tried to be innovative. Apart from that of course it's very unpolished.
This kinda shows that ecko can't win: if he doesn't innovate, then there are complaints that he's just copying DotA. If he does, then people complain because it's not similar enough...
@Fullachain: Go
What about rune creeps? What about all of the unique heroes? What about the entire theme change?
Shouldn't you have locked it then? ,':/
@RCIX: Go
This is because he was doing it wrong in the first place - he made a clone of Dota, even labelling his map as Dota-Allstars - this was no doubt the easy way to get players, but now you are in the position where people will judge and judge and compare it to Dota, because he himself first made the comparision, it is his own stupid fault, that is why his map is judge so harshly, because by the greater community they could very well think he cheated to get his popularity.
The theme change is less of a change than HoN and LoL ... that doesn't count ... change team name A, to team name B, does not consititute originality. The rune creeps are the only good idea eck ever came up with, the "unique" heroes are like lawl ... same formula, they are not unique mate. If he really wanted to be unique he would have came up with a whole new way of getting abilities, leveling up etc.
Well I think those must be different people, but yes, that seems true.
______
People have an unreasonable hate of SotIS/DotA, because other people have an unreasonable love of SotIS/DotA.
Yes it's a pretty good game. But it isn't the BEST game, or the most impressive.
As well, map makers get annoyed when people go on and on about AoSs (DotA/SotIS), because people obsess over them to the exclusion of other games. Other games made by those mappers.
Wrong, I don't like Sotis cause it's not good. I love dota and hon and other aos maps.