This game I think may change the way MMO's are played...... we can hope anyways....
Wouldn't it have to be something more than a highly polished WoW clone to do that?
Granted, the quest experiences seem to be really heavily developed from what I've seen. I'm curious if they can maintain that level of quality and still deliver content patches in a timely manner going forward.
At any rate, if a game is going to change the face of MMOs, it's going to need to introduce entirely new ways to play - new types of content. Try to imagine an MMO without a traditional "quest" structure that still has a strong story experience and a sense of incremental character progression.
Or alternatively, I'd love to see an MMO that figures out how to take advantage of user-generated content without breaking the character progression model.
Why do all recent MMORPGs look exactly the same? Why do all current MMORPGs keep copying WoW? Aion, GW2, Starwars Old Republic, Tera online...
I'm bored with their first person view gameplay (WASD) and with their so repetitive quest based leveling system. I'm still waiting for some daring new MMORPG which doesn't rely on WoW ideas. I miss old MMORPGs like Ragnarok or Granado Espada where you could feel powerful by fighting against 10 monsters at once, where you were free to kill the monsters you liked in order to level up, without having to complete a "collect 20 unicorn horns" quest.
a lot like wow.... but the questing has way way more work/quality to it...
some bugs exists, but im sure they will be ironed out .....
lvl 35 after about a week of playing it....
pretty fast paced...... good xp doing pvp...... flight combat missions.... and general quest line questing...
This game I think may change the way MMO's are played...... we can hope anyways....
Agree.
Even if it is 'just wow in the Star Wars universe' - nothing is wrong with that.
Wow is, or well.. was an awesome game, blizzard themself ruined it due to casualizing the shit out of it, but it was a really good game.
This time we have a new situation, a publisher that has never done something in this direction but with developers that experienced non-casual mmorpg playing, so they'll possibly know what the game need.
Right now, besides minor flaws, SWTOR is a really really great game, and has just recently launched.
And even if it is called something like "wow clone", it takes so much things that wow had, and just makes them way better.
Besides, Star Wars Universe >> All. :)
Why do all recent MMORPGs look exactly the same? Why do all current MMORPGs keep copying WoW? Aion, GW2, Starwars Old Republic, Tera online...
I'm bored with their first person view gameplay (WASD) and with their so repetitive quest based leveling system. I'm still waiting for some daring new MMORPG which doesn't rely on WoW ideas. I miss old MMORPGs like Ragnarok or Granado Espada where you could feel powerful by fighting against 10 monsters at once, where you were free to kill the monsters you liked in order to level up, without having to complete a "collect 20 unicorn horns" quest.
PD: This should be in the Offtopic subforum.
Because not a single MMO is copying WoW, they're all copying everquest.
EDIT: Also play some Korean MMOs, you should like it.
Speaking of Korean MMO's, I remember playing Lineage 2 right before WoW came out... and boy it just didn't click with me. Ugly/bland terrain and then you just grind all day to get one gray item after a week (though that moment when I got it was sweet). As soon as I played WoW a month later, my mind was blown at how much better it was lol.
As far as I'm concerned, the next big MMO will have to be a player environment or PvP. I think NPC/standard-quest systems as mentioned here are getting tired.
Why do all recent MMORPGs look exactly the same? Why do all current MMORPGs keep copying WoW? Aion, GW2, Starwars Old Republic, Tera online...
What is GW2 doing in that list?
In it's current version, SWTOR has only one major thing going for it, that keeps people going forward: the Story. It does that exceptionally good. Everything else is pretty much lackluster.
Space Combat? It's a goddamn Rail Shooter, not combat. It's "click here to hit thingy that flies on your screen".
Regular Combat? It feels old and repetitive, the only thing they did is making sure you break your fingers by having to press the "auto-attack-replacement-button" about 5000 times a day instead of the RMB a few times.
Flashpoints? Story is nice in some, most are just loot pinatas that have way too much trash with way too high hp. It's not a challenge like Rift had them in a lot of Dungeons, even on 50, it's just ... meh.
Operations? Nightmare mode 4/5 after not even a week by Irae AoD. Granted, we are talking about a Pro guild there, but if they can beat the content in greens, that means Nightmare isn't a Nightmare, righto? I had some fun in the Operation, but it's still not hard in any way.
Advanced Classes: Just a clever way to make sure they don't have to make more classes (because it would cost them a shitton of money), but sadly, the classes are mostly not very different. Not even from a Republic - Empire point of view. They nearly all play the same and use some kind of Energy-Like mechanic that has a little twist. But not enough to fake anything for people who look below the shiny.
UI - Oh god what is this abomination?
PvP - Level 10 to 50 in the same BGs, you can guess what a pain in the ass this becomes.
Mounts - Only fugly mounts, have yet to find a single bike (probably instance drops) that don't look like utter shit.
Talent Trees - Blergh. So much wrong with a lot of them.
Questing: Except for the story of the quests, it's the regular stuff. You also have to quest through a linear line of planet if you don't skip content by doing a couple of dungeon runs, meaning when you twink a new char, the only thing it has going for itself, is the class storyline (which are excellent).
So, no, this is not the holy grail and they have A LOT of work to do. Most people who have played since the 13th are pretty much in unison about the problems the game has and how much Bioware needs to change it. Or let's be more precise. How much Bioware MYTHIC needs to change it. Because they are the ones who have done to most work outside of Storyline on this and they are the ones that screwed up before.
So, ye, I will play SWTOR, because the Star Wars Setting and the Story can keep me in the game for a few months, But as soon as GW2 is out, the game can kiss my ass goodbye. They could've made it so much more, but they didn't. I will give them the benefit of the doubt to patch it up to a better standard, but I will not stick around after GW2 has come out.
I dont really see how any mmo could be much better then Star Wars..... I played a lot of EQ, and WOW .... and most mmos have gotten away from the seriousness of the genre that eq had.....
Dunno what your really expecting that could be better..... its all so over done.... the only place to improve is story telling imho and that's the best part about Starwars......
dunno what GW2 is, unless you mean guild wars.... and I thought guild wars was kinda dumb meh...
Your all so negative I don't think you'll ever be that impressed.
Space combat is pretty fun IMO - ship has upgradable slots.....
All MMO combat feels repetitive.... dont play mmo's if this is an issue for you
flashpoints / instances are exactly that .... loot pinatas... if they werent they wouldnt be fun and would have no point. The story telling is fun imo. Wow instances had shit for story telling.
Nobody said raiding in SWTOR was gonna be complicated.... why are you complaining they are just spose to be fun really. (havent done them myself yet)
Your really negative about advanced clases they really are just 2 seperate classes and they do have thier differences, which is the point. A sith assassin is much much different then a sith sorcerer.
The UI is much better at release then Wow was at release. I dont know what your using as a comparision but I figure your thoughts on this are flawed and ignorant.
The pvp settings are fun and interesting. You fail to mention that in PVP everybody is scaled to some similiar level. Only differences really are skills and talents that people have.
Ive seen mounts that dont look like shit..... yet what does this matter ... its a mount and makes you move faster....
The questing is fun and has a lot of work put into them. You will not find a MMO with more effort put into thier quests. I mean seriously its all voice acted..... you cant find that anywhere.
BTW wow had way more issues/ bugs then starwars does at this point in its life span.....
didnt play rift myself but a few of my hard core MMO buddies did and they got bored with it after a month.... not really sure why.
I dont really see how any mmo could be much better then Star Wars..... I played a lot of EQ, and WOW .... and most mmos have gotten away from the seriousness of the genre that eq had.....
Well, how about not screwing up the core gameplay mechanics by spending half of your budget on voice actors?
Dunno what your really expecting that could be better..... its all so over done.... the only place to improve is story telling imho and that's the best part about Starwars......
Unique Design for Advanced Classes, Action Combat DCUO Style or TERA style (hell, even Guild Wars 2 style would be sufficient), less shitty looking endgame armor, more customization options that actually make sense, less "You only click through the dialogue to make more dialogue appear, instead of it having major impacts on the side-story.", replay value of the game is extremly low, the only interesting part is the class story line, due to the fact that every other quest is THE SAME. I actually skipped a lot of the planets by doing Flashpoints, just to have some goddamn content for my twinks to play that I can enjoy. HOW ABOUT THEY GOT SOME FUCKING POD-RACING TO SPEND MY TIME WITH INTO THIS BITCH INSTEAD OF SHITTY SPACE COMBAT THAT LACKS THE "COMBAT". Or any sense in an MMO, because it's a single player toy.
dunno what GW2 is, unless you mean guild wars.... and I thought guild wars was kinda dumb meh...
Than you clearly have been living under a rock these last 2 years. If you had any Idea what Guild Wars 2 is doing, you'd laugh at SWTOR and the new WoW Expansion with everyone else. Lemme give you a hint: 8 unique classes, major storylines that actually CHANGE if you do something different, dynamic events instead of quests, no holy trinity (tank, heal, dps)... the list is endless. And it looks gorgeous. Played some at of it as 2 different Gamescom and I so damn much want into the Beta.
Your all so negative I don't think you'll ever be that impressed.
I'm hard to impress, especially when you only copy something else and do that really badly. Same goes for myself. I will not make much of pats on my head for doing something lackluster or copy. Hell, most of the time I'm my own worst critic.
Space combat is pretty fun IMO - ship has upgradable slots.....
Until you realize you are just playing Moorhuhn all over with a Space Ship that has some upgrades. And it gets repetitive and boring fast. It's nothing compared to SWG: Jump To Lightspeed or EVE Online.
All MMO combat feels repetitive.... dont play mmo's if this is an issue for you
Wrong. you obviously didn't play a lot of MMOs or kept track of MMOs that come up. Some of the top of my head: Age Of Conan, TERA, GW2, DCUO, WH40K: Dark Millenium Online (actually uses Darksiders 2 Engine. Delicious Action Combat).
flashpoints / instances are exactly that .... loot pinatas... if they werent they wouldnt be fun and would have no point. The story telling is fun imo. Wow instances had shit for story telling.
If they actually proved a challenge, SWTOR wouldn't stink so much of WoW. Rift instances did it right. They trained players up on mechanics and threw them a challenge. If you didn't want to stand up to the challenge, you don't need the gear for it. Simple as that. Hell, the hardest heroic instance threw curveballs even at some of the best players I know. It was HARD, but it was also incredible fun. Except if you were a whiny bitch that wanted to have epic loot for paying a monthly fee, that you did neither deserve nor need. Also, only the Faction exclusive Flashpoints actually have anything you can call a storyline. Outside of that, they are boring grindfests that are too easy by mechanics and just have mobs and bosses with lots of health that waste your time. I'm actually running a level 40 FP for style armor solo right now.
Nobody said raiding in SWTOR was gonna be complicated.... why are you complaining they are just spose to be fun really. (havent done them myself yet)
It might surprise you, but fun is not getting some epics thrown your way. Fun is overcoming a challenge. And Operations right now do not prove a challenge. It's like beating Deathwing in WoW with LFR. It's boring and does not feel epic at all. The worst part is that even the highest difficulty does seem like a breeze at the moment. Sure, entire level tier and all, but still. What destroyed WoW Raiding massively was making things loot pinata's for everyone, because "they wanted the same for their money." Again, I like the Rift System for those that want the story: a mode that's really easy for 2 people (could be dynamic scale for 2-4 in SWTOR) that does not reward you with loot.
Again: IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO DO THE CONTENT AT A HIGH DIFFICULTY, WHY IN ALL 7 HELLS DO YOU NEED THE GEAR? Do it at the level that is on your skill level with the gear for that level. Though "heroic" is just the new term for "set it to max level". I'd like to see Rift Dungeons Heroic Style. Badshit crazy hardmode. But a normal version for anyone who doesn't like a challenge and just wants to see the content.
Your really negative about advanced clases they really are just 2 seperate classes and they do have thier differences, which is the point. A sith assassin is much much different then a sith sorcerer.
There is a lot of shared abilities among all the classes. Currently, there are basically 4 classes and each class gets some flavor skills. You basically just decide between range/melee and what kind of trinity you wanna be. Example? Every class gets a channeled ability that stuns weak enemies at the same level. Every class uses a mix of rage/energy or just pure energy, with a slight twist to make it look different. That is not what I call an Advanced Class or Unique. That's what I call lazy class design.
The UI is much better at release then Wow was at release. I dont know what your using as a comparision but I figure your thoughts on this are flawed and ignorant.
The pvp settings are fun and interesting. You fail to mention that in PVP everybody is scaled to some similiar level. Only differences really are skills and talents that people have.
Yes, and my Level 50 Powertech destroys the poor level 10 guys left and right, because he already has every skill and has his IWin Button (I like to call my 25% Crit for about 20 seconds on a 2m CD that). Same goes for the other guys on 50. PvP has no free choice of the Warzone. There is no DR, which means, you can get stunned to death by people. Bioware can not be hold accountable for stupid players, so there is no argument form me on the fact that people can't seem to read the advice that the ball in Huttball has to go to the enemy line.
Ive seen mounts that dont look like shit..... yet what does this matter ... its a mount and makes you move faster....
I have one, that doesn't. Was a drop of Revan in the Foundry. But it's stuck at 90% Speed, so I don't use it outside of cities, because the planets are too big. It would have been enough if they had gotten rid of the retarded speeders and just gave everyone a slightly different flavored endor speeder bike, nobody would have had to puke in that case. And why do I care? Why does it matter? Hell, do you even know 2 things about MMO basics? I look at this bike about 5h a day, if I play and drive around. About the same amount I look at my Character. Mounts have to look good for the same reasons armor has to look good. Because that is what MMOs are all about: Character Progression. If you look like a clown on the space station of a jumping-ball, you do not keep playing.
The questing is fun and has a lot of work put into them. You will not find a MMO with more effort put into thier quests. I mean seriously its all voice acted..... you cant find that anywhere.
True, problem is, it's looses it's flavor over time. Especially, if you play a 2nd or 3rd character later. Because it's ALWAYS THE SAME. And the quests still don't divert much from "kill 20". Except now it makes that a bonus to "loot X". I rarely saw quests that allowed me a different approach to them. Most are just "Dialogue, Dialogue, Dialogue, Accept, Get stuff, turn in, Dialogue". It has no impact on what you do 90% of the time. It has no impact on follow-up quests. This is called "Illusion of choice" btw and it's used in nearly any RPG ever. Except Skyrim. There I just go and murder the bloody moron that crossed me.
BTW wow had way more issues/ bugs then starwars does at this point in its life span.....
Again, 2004 MMOs where a niche genre. There are a lot of standards now, due to WoW making it big. I don't mind bugs, I can accept those (except if they break the Class Storyline, this happend on a few occasions.) What I can not accept is lackluster design and bad gameplay.
didnt play rift myself but a few of my hard core MMO buddies did and they got bored with it after a month.... not really sure why.
Rift had it's own problems. It still runs on about a Million or so right now, though. I had some fun with it, but it just couldn't grab me. Had a lot of good things about it though, I mostly quit due to getting bored after the whole "pick your talents" thing turned up to be a bad joke, because Math once again found Cookie-Cutter builds. Oh and in PvP, you had guys who wrote a macro with a lot of the "off the GCD" skills into 1 button and smashed your face in.
While games always come down to personal taste, objectively speaking SWTOR lacks in major gameplay areas. My personal suspect on that matter is Bioware Mythic, who crashed WAR and seem hell-bent on crashing SWTOR, too. They work on the title, that much is known.
I dont see GW2 being innovative, While I do see it being good, I think we will see another wow clone.
I played it on 2 occasions and I have to massively disagree with you. Though GW2 has a stronger PvP focus, similar to GW1, which had excellent PvP. So, probably less of the raiding crowd and all. I suggest you watch some TotalBiscuit videos on the matter, that might help.
Unique Design for Advanced Classes, Action Combat DCUO Style or TERA style (hell, even Guild Wars 2 style would be sufficient), less shitty looking endgame armor, more customization options that actually make sense, less "You only click through the dialogue to make more dialogue appear, instead of it having major impacts on the side-story.", replay value of the game is extremly low, the only interesting part is the class story line, due to the fact that every other quest is THE SAME. I actually skipped a lot of the planets by doing Flashpoints, just to have some goddamn content for my twinks to play that I can enjoy. HOW ABOUT THEY GOT SOME FUCKING POD-RACING TO SPEND MY TIME WITH INTO THIS BITCH INSTEAD OF SHITTY SPACE COMBAT THAT LACKS THE "COMBAT". Or any sense in an MMO, because it's a single player toy.
Than you clearly have been living under a rock these last 2 years. If you had any Idea what Guild Wars 2 is doing, you'd laugh at SWTOR and the new WoW Expansion with everyone else. Lemme give you a hint: 8 unique classes, major storylines that actually CHANGE if you do something different, dynamic events instead of quests, no holy trinity (tank, heal, dps)... the list is endless. And it looks gorgeous. Played some at of it as 2 different Gamescom and I so damn much want into the Beta.
I'm hard to impress, especially when you only copy something else and do that really badly. Same goes for myself. I will not make much of pats on my head for doing something lackluster or copy. Hell, most of the time I'm my own worst critic.
Until you realize you are just playing Moorhuhn all over with a Space Ship that has some upgrades. And it gets repetitive and boring fast. It's nothing compared to SWG: Jump To Lightspeed or EVE Online.
Wrong. you obviously didn't play a lot of MMOs or kept track of MMOs that come up. Some of the top of my head: Age Of Conan, TERA, GW2, DCUO, WH40K: Dark Millenium Online (actually uses Darksiders 2 Engine. Delicious Action Combat).
If they actually proved a challenge, SWTOR wouldn't stink so much of WoW. Rift instances did it right. They trained players up on mechanics and threw them a challenge. If you didn't want to stand up to the challenge, you don't need the gear for it. Simple as that. Hell, the hardest heroic instance threw curveballs even at some of the best players I know. It was HARD, but it was also incredible fun. Except if you were a whiny bitch that wanted to have epic loot for paying a monthly fee, that you did neither deserve nor need. Also, only the Faction exclusive Flashpoints actually have anything you can call a storyline. Outside of that, they are boring grindfests that are too easy by mechanics and just have mobs and bosses with lots of health that waste your time. I'm actually running a level 40 FP for style armor solo right now.
It might surprise you, but fun is not getting some epics thrown your way. Fun is overcoming a challenge. And Operations right now do not prove a challenge. It's like beating Deathwing in WoW with LFR. It's boring and does not feel epic at all. The worst part is that even the highest difficulty does seem like a breeze at the moment. Sure, entire level tier and all, but still. What destroyed WoW Raiding massively was making things loot pinata's for everyone, because "they wanted the same for their money." Again, I like the Rift System for those that want the story: a mode that's really easy for 2 people (could be dynamic scale for 2-4 in SWTOR) that does not reward you with loot.
Again: IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO DO THE CONTENT AT A HIGH DIFFICULTY, WHY IN ALL 7 HELLS DO YOU NEED THE GEAR? Do it at the level that is on your skill level with the gear for that level. Though "heroic" is just the new term for "set it to max level". I'd like to see Rift Dungeons Heroic Style. Badshit crazy hardmode. But a normal version for anyone who doesn't like a challenge and just wants to see the content.
There is a lot of shared abilities among all the classes. Currently, there are basically 4 classes and each class gets some flavor skills. You basically just decide between range/melee and what kind of trinity you wanna be. Example? Every class gets a channeled ability that stuns weak enemies at the same level. Every class uses a mix of rage/energy or just pure energy, with a slight twist to make it look different. That is not what I call an Advanced Class or Unique. That's what I call lazy class design.
Yes, and my Level 50 Powertech destroys the poor level 10 guys left and right, because he already has every skill and has his IWin Button (I like to call my 25% Crit for about 20 seconds on a 2m CD that). Same goes for the other guys on 50. PvP has no free choice of the Warzone. There is no DR, which means, you can get stunned to death by people. Bioware can not be hold accountable for stupid players, so there is no argument form me on the fact that people can't seem to read the advice that the ball in Huttball has to go to the enemy line.
I have one, that doesn't. Was a drop of Revan in the Foundry. But it's stuck at 90% Speed, so I don't use it outside of cities, because the planets are too big. It would have been enough if they had gotten rid of the retarded speeders and just gave everyone a slightly different flavored endor speeder bike, nobody would have had to puke in that case. And why do I care? Why does it matter? Hell, do you even know 2 things about MMO basics? I look at this bike about 5h a day, if I play and drive around. About the same amount I look at my Character. Mounts have to look good for the same reasons armor has to look good. Because that is what MMOs are all about: Character Progression. If you look like a clown on the space station of a jumping-ball, you do not keep playing.
True, problem is, it's looses it's flavor over time. Especially, if you play a 2nd or 3rd character later. Because it's ALWAYS THE SAME. And the quests still don't divert much from "kill 20". Except now it makes that a bonus to "loot X". I rarely saw quests that allowed me a different approach to them. Most are just "Dialogue, Dialogue, Dialogue, Accept, Get stuff, turn in, Dialogue". It has no impact on what you do 90% of the time. It has no impact on follow-up quests. This is called "Illusion of choice" btw and it's used in nearly any RPG ever. Except Skyrim. There I just go and murder the bloody moron that crossed me.
Again, 2004 MMOs where a niche genre. There are a lot of standards now, due to WoW making it big. I don't mind bugs, I can accept those (except if they break the Class Storyline, this happend on a few occasions.) What I can not accept is lackluster design and bad gameplay.
Rift had it's own problems. It still runs on about a Million or so right now, though. I had some fun with it, but it just couldn't grab me. Had a lot of good things about it though, I mostly quit due to getting bored after the whole "pick your talents" thing turned up to be a bad joke, because Math once again found Cookie-Cutter builds. Oh and in PvP, you had guys who wrote a macro with a lot of the "off the GCD" skills into 1 button and smashed your face in.
While games always come down to personal taste, objectively speaking SWTOR lacks in major gameplay areas. My personal suspect on that matter is Bioware Mythic, who crashed WAR and seem hell-bent on crashing SWTOR, too. They work on the title, that much is known.
I played it on 2 occasions and I have to massively disagree with you. Though GW2 has a stronger PvP focus, similar to GW1, which had excellent PvP. So, probably less of the raiding crowd and all. I suggest you watch some TotalBiscuit videos on the matter, that might help.
WAUW!!! O.o
Be prepared - this wall of text will be nothing compared to mine!
Please keep in mind this is from the perspective of a person who played WoW for 7 years, has played every major MMO out to this day and some that are not, has a high standard for quality and is level 50 since some time. At level 18-30, I still enjoyed the game vastly.
Also, most of the tricks in game design do not work on me, because I studied this stuff. Things you will NEVER notice as a normal customer, spring into my eyes and annoy me.
As I said. Not a bad game. But not the holy grail either.
Than no thx, If you would say its lot like E.V.E than I would probably start playing it.
QFT.
Crowd Control Productions have already created the best MMORP-Universe. Anything else is simplistic, bland and down-scaled in comparison. If I had more disposable income I'd be back in Null-Sec with my old Corp-mates doing ninja-frigate gate camps... Not running around some world doing quests.
E.V.E. only appeals to a certain type of people, because it's a giant sandbox and requires massive efforts to get into at this point in time. But most people enjoy the Theme-Park that is WoW a lot more, because they don't have to come up with the content themselves and it's easy to access. I personally look forward to DUST though, because it will add a nice new something to the MMO Genre by combining multiple games of different Genre into a single universe. Why it's PS3 exclusive is beyond me though, when your major community is on the PC.
That said, here is something for those that have no idea how complex and fun E.V.E. can get, when you play it with others.
This game is the shiz nit......
pretty damn fun
a lot like wow.... but the questing has way way more work/quality to it...
some bugs exists, but im sure they will be ironed out .....
lvl 35 after about a week of playing it....
pretty fast paced...... good xp doing pvp...... flight combat missions.... and general quest line questing...
This game I think may change the way MMO's are played...... we can hope anyways....
Than no thx, If you would say its lot like E.V.E than I would probably start playing it.
I'll stick to Rift
As TotalBiscuit said... it's WOW with a better storytelling in the starwars world :P
Wouldn't it have to be something more than a highly polished WoW clone to do that?
Granted, the quest experiences seem to be really heavily developed from what I've seen. I'm curious if they can maintain that level of quality and still deliver content patches in a timely manner going forward.
At any rate, if a game is going to change the face of MMOs, it's going to need to introduce entirely new ways to play - new types of content. Try to imagine an MMO without a traditional "quest" structure that still has a strong story experience and a sense of incremental character progression.
Or alternatively, I'd love to see an MMO that figures out how to take advantage of user-generated content without breaking the character progression model.
Why do all recent MMORPGs look exactly the same? Why do all current MMORPGs keep copying WoW? Aion, GW2, Starwars Old Republic, Tera online...
I'm bored with their first person view gameplay (WASD) and with their so repetitive quest based leveling system. I'm still waiting for some daring new MMORPG which doesn't rely on WoW ideas. I miss old MMORPGs like Ragnarok or Granado Espada where you could feel powerful by fighting against 10 monsters at once, where you were free to kill the monsters you liked in order to level up, without having to complete a "collect 20 unicorn horns" quest.
PD: This should be in the Offtopic subforum.
Agree.
Even if it is 'just wow in the Star Wars universe' - nothing is wrong with that.
Wow is, or well.. was an awesome game, blizzard themself ruined it due to casualizing the shit out of it, but it was a really good game.
This time we have a new situation, a publisher that has never done something in this direction but with developers that experienced non-casual mmorpg playing, so they'll possibly know what the game need.
Right now, besides minor flaws, SWTOR is a really really great game, and has just recently launched. And even if it is called something like "wow clone", it takes so much things that wow had, and just makes them way better. Besides, Star Wars Universe >> All. :)
Because not a single MMO is copying WoW, they're all copying everquest.
EDIT: Also play some Korean MMOs, you should like it.
@Keyeszx: Go
Speaking of Korean MMO's, I remember playing Lineage 2 right before WoW came out... and boy it just didn't click with me. Ugly/bland terrain and then you just grind all day to get one gray item after a week (though that moment when I got it was sweet). As soon as I played WoW a month later, my mind was blown at how much better it was lol.
As far as I'm concerned, the next big MMO will have to be a player environment or PvP. I think NPC/standard-quest systems as mentioned here are getting tired.
No, no it will not. As others said, it's too much like EQ for that. The only thing it might bring us, is better story telling in MMORPGs.
What is GW2 doing in that list?
In it's current version, SWTOR has only one major thing going for it, that keeps people going forward: the Story. It does that exceptionally good. Everything else is pretty much lackluster.
So, no, this is not the holy grail and they have A LOT of work to do. Most people who have played since the 13th are pretty much in unison about the problems the game has and how much Bioware needs to change it. Or let's be more precise. How much Bioware MYTHIC needs to change it. Because they are the ones who have done to most work outside of Storyline on this and they are the ones that screwed up before.
So, ye, I will play SWTOR, because the Star Wars Setting and the Story can keep me in the game for a few months, But as soon as GW2 is out, the game can kiss my ass goodbye. They could've made it so much more, but they didn't. I will give them the benefit of the doubt to patch it up to a better standard, but I will not stick around after GW2 has come out.
That is all.
@Gorandor: Go
I dont really see how any mmo could be much better then Star Wars..... I played a lot of EQ, and WOW .... and most mmos have gotten away from the seriousness of the genre that eq had.....
Dunno what your really expecting that could be better..... its all so over done.... the only place to improve is story telling imho and that's the best part about Starwars......
dunno what GW2 is, unless you mean guild wars.... and I thought guild wars was kinda dumb meh...
Your all so negative I don't think you'll ever be that impressed.
BTW wow had way more issues/ bugs then starwars does at this point in its life span.....
didnt play rift myself but a few of my hard core MMO buddies did and they got bored with it after a month.... not really sure why.
I think the next Great MMO will be like Skyrim, but with character respawns so it can actually be played :D.
@Taintedwisp: Go There is a Multiplayer Mod being Developed. Though I'd rather see Bethesda do that via Steam. That would be awesome.
The next big step will hopefully be GW2.
I dont see GW2 being innovative, While I do see it being good, I think we will see another wow clone.
Well, how about not screwing up the core gameplay mechanics by spending half of your budget on voice actors?
Unique Design for Advanced Classes, Action Combat DCUO Style or TERA style (hell, even Guild Wars 2 style would be sufficient), less shitty looking endgame armor, more customization options that actually make sense, less "You only click through the dialogue to make more dialogue appear, instead of it having major impacts on the side-story.", replay value of the game is extremly low, the only interesting part is the class story line, due to the fact that every other quest is THE SAME. I actually skipped a lot of the planets by doing Flashpoints, just to have some goddamn content for my twinks to play that I can enjoy. HOW ABOUT THEY GOT SOME FUCKING POD-RACING TO SPEND MY TIME WITH INTO THIS BITCH INSTEAD OF SHITTY SPACE COMBAT THAT LACKS THE "COMBAT". Or any sense in an MMO, because it's a single player toy.
Than you clearly have been living under a rock these last 2 years. If you had any Idea what Guild Wars 2 is doing, you'd laugh at SWTOR and the new WoW Expansion with everyone else. Lemme give you a hint: 8 unique classes, major storylines that actually CHANGE if you do something different, dynamic events instead of quests, no holy trinity (tank, heal, dps)... the list is endless. And it looks gorgeous. Played some at of it as 2 different Gamescom and I so damn much want into the Beta.
I'm hard to impress, especially when you only copy something else and do that really badly. Same goes for myself. I will not make much of pats on my head for doing something lackluster or copy. Hell, most of the time I'm my own worst critic.
Until you realize you are just playing Moorhuhn all over with a Space Ship that has some upgrades. And it gets repetitive and boring fast. It's nothing compared to SWG: Jump To Lightspeed or EVE Online.
Wrong. you obviously didn't play a lot of MMOs or kept track of MMOs that come up. Some of the top of my head: Age Of Conan, TERA, GW2, DCUO, WH40K: Dark Millenium Online (actually uses Darksiders 2 Engine. Delicious Action Combat).
If they actually proved a challenge, SWTOR wouldn't stink so much of WoW. Rift instances did it right. They trained players up on mechanics and threw them a challenge. If you didn't want to stand up to the challenge, you don't need the gear for it. Simple as that. Hell, the hardest heroic instance threw curveballs even at some of the best players I know. It was HARD, but it was also incredible fun. Except if you were a whiny bitch that wanted to have epic loot for paying a monthly fee, that you did neither deserve nor need. Also, only the Faction exclusive Flashpoints actually have anything you can call a storyline. Outside of that, they are boring grindfests that are too easy by mechanics and just have mobs and bosses with lots of health that waste your time. I'm actually running a level 40 FP for style armor solo right now.
It might surprise you, but fun is not getting some epics thrown your way. Fun is overcoming a challenge. And Operations right now do not prove a challenge. It's like beating Deathwing in WoW with LFR. It's boring and does not feel epic at all. The worst part is that even the highest difficulty does seem like a breeze at the moment. Sure, entire level tier and all, but still. What destroyed WoW Raiding massively was making things loot pinata's for everyone, because "they wanted the same for their money." Again, I like the Rift System for those that want the story: a mode that's really easy for 2 people (could be dynamic scale for 2-4 in SWTOR) that does not reward you with loot.
Again: IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO DO THE CONTENT AT A HIGH DIFFICULTY, WHY IN ALL 7 HELLS DO YOU NEED THE GEAR? Do it at the level that is on your skill level with the gear for that level. Though "heroic" is just the new term for "set it to max level". I'd like to see Rift Dungeons Heroic Style. Badshit crazy hardmode. But a normal version for anyone who doesn't like a challenge and just wants to see the content.
There is a lot of shared abilities among all the classes. Currently, there are basically 4 classes and each class gets some flavor skills. You basically just decide between range/melee and what kind of trinity you wanna be. Example? Every class gets a channeled ability that stuns weak enemies at the same level. Every class uses a mix of rage/energy or just pure energy, with a slight twist to make it look different. That is not what I call an Advanced Class or Unique. That's what I call lazy class design.
I'm sorry, but we are not in 2004 anymore where MMO were a niché genre of gaming. We are in 2011, we have certain standards for these things. Want a recent example? Rift had a freely moveable and customizable UI. LOTRO had one. WAR had it. AoC did have it, too. SWTOR? No multi-bars in the center, no mouse-over healing, no customization, etc. Saying it's "better than WoW at release" is like saying "Duke Nukem would have been really awesome 14 years ago, judge it by that instead of 2011 standards!"
Yes, and my Level 50 Powertech destroys the poor level 10 guys left and right, because he already has every skill and has his IWin Button (I like to call my 25% Crit for about 20 seconds on a 2m CD that). Same goes for the other guys on 50. PvP has no free choice of the Warzone. There is no DR, which means, you can get stunned to death by people. Bioware can not be hold accountable for stupid players, so there is no argument form me on the fact that people can't seem to read the advice that the ball in Huttball has to go to the enemy line.
I have one, that doesn't. Was a drop of Revan in the Foundry. But it's stuck at 90% Speed, so I don't use it outside of cities, because the planets are too big. It would have been enough if they had gotten rid of the retarded speeders and just gave everyone a slightly different flavored endor speeder bike, nobody would have had to puke in that case. And why do I care? Why does it matter? Hell, do you even know 2 things about MMO basics? I look at this bike about 5h a day, if I play and drive around. About the same amount I look at my Character. Mounts have to look good for the same reasons armor has to look good. Because that is what MMOs are all about: Character Progression. If you look like a clown on the space station of a jumping-ball, you do not keep playing.
True, problem is, it's looses it's flavor over time. Especially, if you play a 2nd or 3rd character later. Because it's ALWAYS THE SAME. And the quests still don't divert much from "kill 20". Except now it makes that a bonus to "loot X". I rarely saw quests that allowed me a different approach to them. Most are just "Dialogue, Dialogue, Dialogue, Accept, Get stuff, turn in, Dialogue". It has no impact on what you do 90% of the time. It has no impact on follow-up quests. This is called "Illusion of choice" btw and it's used in nearly any RPG ever. Except Skyrim. There I just go and murder the bloody moron that crossed me.
Again, 2004 MMOs where a niche genre. There are a lot of standards now, due to WoW making it big. I don't mind bugs, I can accept those (except if they break the Class Storyline, this happend on a few occasions.) What I can not accept is lackluster design and bad gameplay.
Rift had it's own problems. It still runs on about a Million or so right now, though. I had some fun with it, but it just couldn't grab me. Had a lot of good things about it though, I mostly quit due to getting bored after the whole "pick your talents" thing turned up to be a bad joke, because Math once again found Cookie-Cutter builds. Oh and in PvP, you had guys who wrote a macro with a lot of the "off the GCD" skills into 1 button and smashed your face in.
While games always come down to personal taste, objectively speaking SWTOR lacks in major gameplay areas. My personal suspect on that matter is Bioware Mythic, who crashed WAR and seem hell-bent on crashing SWTOR, too. They work on the title, that much is known.
Also, fix the horrible grammar.
I played it on 2 occasions and I have to massively disagree with you. Though GW2 has a stronger PvP focus, similar to GW1, which had excellent PvP. So, probably less of the raiding crowd and all. I suggest you watch some TotalBiscuit videos on the matter, that might help.
WAUW!!! O.o
Be prepared - this wall of text will be nothing compared to mine!
SWTOR ROX!
Please keep in mind this is from the perspective of a person who played WoW for 7 years, has played every major MMO out to this day and some that are not, has a high standard for quality and is level 50 since some time. At level 18-30, I still enjoyed the game vastly.
Also, most of the tricks in game design do not work on me, because I studied this stuff. Things you will NEVER notice as a normal customer, spring into my eyes and annoy me.
As I said. Not a bad game. But not the holy grail either.
QFT.
Crowd Control Productions have already created the best MMORP-Universe. Anything else is simplistic, bland and down-scaled in comparison. If I had more disposable income I'd be back in Null-Sec with my old Corp-mates doing ninja-frigate gate camps... Not running around some world doing quests.
E.V.E. only appeals to a certain type of people, because it's a giant sandbox and requires massive efforts to get into at this point in time. But most people enjoy the Theme-Park that is WoW a lot more, because they don't have to come up with the content themselves and it's easy to access. I personally look forward to DUST though, because it will add a nice new something to the MMO Genre by combining multiple games of different Genre into a single universe. Why it's PS3 exclusive is beyond me though, when your major community is on the PC.
That said, here is something for those that have no idea how complex and fun E.V.E. can get, when you play it with others.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>Which in my opinion are people with above normal brain function and a true perception of what is genuinely enjoyable and not just shiny gimmicks.