I don't think SC2 really needs any more buildings. The early, mid and late game are pretty well defined and the only thing I could really see being added are defensive structures, maybe. I would love to see more buildings for the campaign though. I'd love to see more variations for the Zerg colonies.
I understand everyones pain, but the devolment team made the worse decision that chanced the whole game from BroodWar,
They REMOVED THE LOGIC from the game! Why was BW so awsome?Because they just let the cool stuff go, they were not afraid of making powerful units, and this is way they made so few balance changes like the cost of scout, or the suply of battlecruiser/carrier or the 150 demage psi storm (i miss it :P)
Just think about it, why would terrans remove the firebat and medic(I don't care if people say medic is OP, they were in BroodWar)from their tech tree when they are so important in early battles untill you have money for medivs, or why would Hydras be so much more expensive in sc2? They are not crap because of the speed they are crap because of the hight cost(and they do the same dps as in BW).
As for stuctures, when Blizzard removed the Dark Pylon, a pice of me died.
For me, the assets alone are probably worth it. They stated, they won't be re-using WoL assets for the most part, so we can expect a TON of new assets. I hope, they will include lots of stuff, which isn't necessarily Starcraft-related as well, so new maps can have a little more diversity in art direction without the need of a full modelling team (and even if so, they are finally releasing the art tools hopefully).
The expansion is not supposed to completely change the metagame. The only way they could do that is by completely removing the main old units (Zealots, stalkers, sentries, marines, tanks, vikings, roaches, hydras, zerglings, mutas) or by adding even more simple units like those (Swarm Hosts and Battle Hellions, for example)
Keep in mind that they can't add many units because they have another expansion planned, which if it would add just as many units would just have too much.
Battle Hellions were given the bio modifier to see how they would work together with medivacs and bio. The modifier might be removed later and turned into a validator for the heal ability or something like that, or it might be removed completely if blizzard doesn't like the result. I'm not sure whether you've noticed, but they're using the beta to experiment. Right now they're changing the new units to see how they can make those useful, and then they'll take a look at the old units.
The reason they have a seperate button is because they need an upgrade to transform, but can be built without that upgrade (Meaning they will be locked in that form until you research it, which means the upgrade isn't mandatory if you're only going to use one form)
Medics aren't in melee game because stimpack timing attacks were already a problem, and medics were a lot better than medivacs in the campaign. Early healing doesn't really sound that good for me for terran, who are already pretty powerful early if they decide to push with infantry. If they added medics early on, they'd have to nerf marines and marauders. Also, this is not BW, there is no reason that they should do anything like BW. It's a different game. BW was also a lot harder to play due to its limitations (Crappy pathing, smaller control groups, single building selection, and a lot more stuff that pissed me off when I tried it and am happy is gone), so units could be balanced differently - And again, it was a different game. Hydras are still pretty damn powerful, and they don't cost that much (Cheaper than a stalker, tiny bit more expensive than a marauder)
The multiplayer is about balance, the single player is where they add the "cool" stuff that isn't balanced.
Blizzard Allstars will be part of the starter edition if I remember right, it was said on blizzcon I believe which means there is no real source to link to. Just checked my old notes for the mapcraft I and Zelda made to cover blizzcons:
They want to allow it to be played free, possibly in starter addition
BUT they would like to “give owners of WoL and HotS bonus content”
Hint....available in WoL?
Other hint: It’s not a “premium map”
Still must be determined, but it doesn’t look like you will have to pay any extra
Blizzard DOTA will have a beta in a few months
And yea, they will be using little to no WoL assets - I expect they'll still use the regular melee assets obviously, maybe even some of the campaign units like medics, but they won't be reusing doodads and tilesets, which means different critters as well probably, and seeing as HotS includes evolution stuff and we found a list of "primal" zerg or something like that, I think we can expect a lot of neutral creatures, and with them missile, buff and impact models.
I bet they wont add more than 1 unit to each race in LotV, maybe even 2-3 more upgrades in the game but that's it, reason I say that?
Well their lack of imagination is obvios since they only give recicled units and ghimicky units/spells, since they seem to hate or don't care at all about protoss, they'll probably give another ghimick robotics unit.
@Bogdan254: Go They wont, simply because every decision they made so far shows us they don't admit some of the older units are good enough for melee.
Browder said they could see the Firebat was better than Hellion in the campaign. Now we have Battle Hellions trying to be Firebats, to the point they are considered biological so they can be healed by Medivacs... This is stupid. People could argue that adding the Firebat to melee tech would be 'cheap' for an expansion, because the unit was already in WoL, but seeing what they are doing in beta makes me think I'd rather pay for the Firebat.
Widow Mines are problematic. Some of the Spider Mines' mechanics would work better. Widow Mines' mechanics force them to be more expensive and cost more supply, and still they are not that efficient, because their damage is focused on the main target with little AoE damage, but I think Blizzard is trying to change that. Then again people could say a change like giving Spider Mines to Hellions would be cheap and not worth paying for.
Of course each case must be evaluated carefully. Swarm Hosts are not Lurkers, their mechanics are very different. But which one is needed the most? Which one is easier to balance? Sometimes they trip in their decisions. Terran had the opportunity to use Warhounds in the beta and most players agree it was op. Blizzard said it was op. Tempests overlap more and more with Void Rays. But in WoL they removed Lurkers before players had a chance to use them, without a valid argument for that.
Another terrible design faliure for SC2 in general is that many high tier units are useless or rarely useful, capital ships being the best example. Too many units (and not as expensive) counter capital ships. The very concept to teching up means you try to access units that should be obviously better than the ones you start with, but in SC2 the counters to high tier units come early in tech. Units should counter lower tier, not higher tier. The fact that Marines are a good counter to some high tier units, that Zealots (with charge) are good counters to mech, and so on, already tells us something about game design.
I think the campaign will make HoTS worth my money. New aditor features and lots of new assets too. The ladder? I'm not sure, but I'm not a competitive player anyway, so my opinion on HoTS differs from ladder players. As for cool campaign stuff I'd like to see this:
I'm not sure if it's just the people you play or what. But from the videos I've seen pros are using the new units. zerg has gotten the most with swarm host being the most viable units. Ultralisk are about the same but now you can make em do basically a zealot charge without the chance of taking damage. Protoss has deathball and mass air. But that's because protoss got the short end of the stick. Terran can go mech play now instead of just marine tank. I don't even see mmm much anymore it's usually siege and marines with medivacs thrown in. From what I've seen they did what they wanted. Gave terran a more viable mech play, gave zerg a counter to the deathball if they think about what they're doing. I'm not sure what they were trying to do for protoss since they really didn't get much except possibility of going mass air but really you just throw in one or two tempest and it stays the same as the normal game.
Also I believe Warcraft is what made them famous, it was first.
Yeah, I buy this game mostly for the campaign , it seems like they put more effort in Heart of the Swarm story.
As for the multiplayer, uh David Kim should not be drunk when he makes units, just saying, I mean if the pro-games TvZ will last more than 20 minutes it's kind of obvious that zerg will always win since they have so many free units spawner(SW,BL and infestor).
I fear that Sc2 will not be an e-sport anymore, making the hellion bio and saying they're trying to improve mech LoL........
Actually, Tainted, it's an eSport first. WC3 was mainly a regular game, SC2 is mainly an eSport. While they try to balance the game around all levels of play, the main focus is the pro level. Also, wc3 didn't succeed as an esport because of what makes it different from sc2 - Heroes. There's a good article about it somewhere, but I read it 2 years ago and can't remember where. The main point was that in sc:bw and sc2 you easily knew wtf was going without knowing the game - Huge guy firing lazorz? Lightning storms? Tanks with big turrets and explosions? Huge dude with massive cannons? A fucking huge swarm of super fast insects? Its obvious that you dont want those in your face. Ive watched the SCI on my TV once while my dad was working in the same room. He didnt know a thing about the game, yet he found it interesting and could easily tell what was going on. In WC3 it was all about micro, heroes and abilities. Its kind of like watching LoL when you don't know the game - Lots of special effects, health bars dropping, and you have no idea who is doing what and what all does special effects stand for. Its less crazy in WC3, but more importantly, as someone who doesnt know the game, you don't know who's is doing well - Both in wc3 and LoL. There's items and levels, and no real visual indication of the heroes strength. You can't tell the difference between a level 1 and level 10 blademaster, or between a bad and a fed kog'maw. Unless you know exactly what is going on, you have no idea just how powerful (or powerless) a player is. In SC, if one guy has a big army with a decent amount of big dudes while the other guy has a medium sized army of regular sized dudes, its fairly obvious who is winning. You can easily tell that that big chunk of roaches will melt to that tank line or the colossi before they manage to break through the wall of marines/stalkers.
I mean if the pro-games TvZ will last more than 20 minutes it's kind of obvious that zerg will always win since they have so many free units spawner(SW,BL and infestor).
Hasn't that always been the case with zerg? Terrans are really good early and mid game, while zerg mainly just try to survive while expanding as much as possible, because their entire macro system just makes it really easy to wear down the opponent once you have enough hatcheries and money. That's pretty much the core concept behind the zerg - They're called the swarm for a reason, which is why I think that the Swarm Host is just a thematically perfect edition to the race, both lore and gameplay wise.
Locusts do need a nerf right now, they do more DPS than hydras atm, but that's a numbers thing, which is what the damn beta is for. Same goes for widow mines - Just because they are weak right now does not mean they are useless. The point of the beta is to balance the game before release, which means numbers will be adjusted, a lot. Same goes for battle hellion and its bio unit filter - I highly doubt it will stay bio, it was probably just a quick way to test its compatibility with medivacs, and they'd probably just replace the bio unit filter with a validator in the medivac ability so that the BH can be healed without being bio (Or they'd just scrap the idea.)
I don't see why people are complaining about blizzard trying out stuff - Maybe they added the bio unit filter to see how firebats would do in the game? Who knows, they might scrap the BH next patch and just add the firebat instead if they like the results of the bio-BH. Its a beta, they are testing the game to see what they can do.
Imo making low tech units useless late game is an a lot worse design decision than making them useful via upgrades mid and late game.
But I agree, the capital ships are too weak. The rest of the late game units are fine imo though. Its just the BC and Carrier... They just dont seem worth it. It takes too long to mass them properly, and before you have them massed they aren't that useful.
Same goes for battle hellion and its bio unit filter - I highly doubt it will stay bio, it was probably just a quick way to test its compatibility with medivacs, and they'd probably just replace the bio unit filter with a validator in the medivac ability so that the BH can be healed without being bio (Or they'd just scrap the idea.) I don't see why people are complaining about blizzard trying out stuff - Maybe they added the bio unit filter to see how firebats would do in the game? Who knows, they might scrap the BH next patch and just add the firebat instead if they like the results of the bio-BH. Its a beta, they are testing the game to see what they can do.
While I doubt they would do that, because as I said it could feel cheap to add a unit that was in WoL campaign, I'd love to have Firebats instead of Battle Hellions. I don't like all the Transformers feel in SC2, and the other transformer unit, the Viking, is rarely used in ground form, we would be better with Wraiths or Valkyries replacing them.
Ohh and about a previous discussion about Medics over Medivacs, and the need to nerf Marines: Marines got extra range and extra life comparing BW to WoL, and I feel Medics heal faster than BW version with a longer range. Nobody tried to balance those things before changing the game. They made the Medivac because "Medics couldn't keep up with Reapers", but have you seen anyone use a Reaper + Medivac composition? No, the Reaper can now heal itself. Its just a series of bad design decisions that could have gone an entirely different way.
Just because it was based on a now irrelevant decision doesn't make it bad, they just tried it out and it worked no need to question it. Let them have a bit of a quirky game it's much more fun, hell to me it doesn't really seem like they are serious about balancing yet and are still just throwing things around and seeing how it goes.
I hear a lot of complaining about the units in melee... It's great that blizzard released editing tools so that we could create custom melee unit compositions and stats. Having a bunch of different units could work... For instance players can have an option to tech up to medivacs to support a bio army support build or science vessels to support a mech build. Having variety can really diversify strategies and make them less predictable. Regardless of how blizzard balances things I'm going to inlude ever asset in my custom mod.
"We haven't figured out the details," says Didier. "But there will be a free-to-play Blizzard DOTA on our Blizzard Arcade. We don't know how many heroes there will be, or how many maps, but we definitely want to make sure that everyone knows it will be free-to-play."