In my perfect world, it's not Activision-Blizzard, it's Valve-Blizzard, and they all sit together with their billions of dollars of talented workers and come up with really cool games that are not game-of-the-week corporate games. Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyy!
Fact is there'd be no DotA if not for Blizzard's Warcraft series.
Chicken and egg.
Blizzard have a stake in this.
There's no Blizzard without Windows. So, Windows should trademark dota.
There's no Windows without Apple, So, Apple should trademark dota.
There's no Apple without C. There's no C without computer. Theres' no computer without scientists. There's no scientists without money. There's no money without greediness.
Therefore, there's no DotA without Activision.
Activision should be the one to trademark dota, not Valve.
What platforms the game was made on is entirely irrelevant. Just becuase it was made on WC3 does not give Blizzard the rights to it. It merely gives Blizzard the rights to the assets used, not the gameplay though, nor the name. Valve isn't trademarking the specific WC3 models, they're trademarking something that did not use a Blizzard product, and in no way belongs to Blizzard. Blizzard has no right to the maps WE create, so they should lose.
There's no Blizzard without Windows. So, Windows should trademark dota.
There's no Windows without Apple, So, Apple should trademark dota.
There's no Apple without C. There's no C without computer. Theres' no computer without scientists. There's no scientists without money. There's no money without greediness.
Therefore, there's no DotA without Activision.
Activision should be the one to trademark dota, not Valve.
I laughed at the part where you said Windows runs on an Apple OS and that that Apple OS is programmed in C.
man colt.. do you know what you are talking about or are you just living in your happy baby world? everything created with the blizzard editor is owned by blizzard. if you use it you give up every right for the creation. they have the right to it. no discussion.
man colt.. do you know what you are talking about or are you just living in your happy baby world? everything created with the blizzard editor is owned by blizzard. if you use it you give up every right for the creation. they have the right to it. no discussion.
And yet if this were true, Valve wouldn't be able to trademark Dota. It's true NOW, in SC2, not in WC3. Blizzard owns what it created, the editor, the models. But it has absolutely no right to things created by the community. That'd be like the creator of a Flash program owning all the flash games/videos made with his program. It doesn't work that way. Blizzard has no rights to dota, they didn't develope the gameplay, or the heroes, or the name. Just because someone used their editor and their game, doesn't let blizzard own it.
first of all: dont quote whats directly above your post. it makes you look stupid.
second: better read the terms of service of the wc3 editor again.
thirdly: it IS true, it IS their right. thats what terms of service are for. quotation wikipedia:
Terms of service (abbreviated as ToS or TOS)[1] are rules by which one must agree to abide by in order to use a service. Unless in violation of consumer protection laws, such terms are usually legally binding.
you want to use the editor? didnt you agree to this rules? you dont want to agree to this rules you cant use the editor. its really simple. you can make a flash programm with the same TOS. its your right and you could own everything created with it. however nothing would be created with it, because there are alternatives. whoops.
first of all: dont quote whats directly above your post. it makes you look stupid. second: better read the terms of service of the wc3 editor again. thirdly: it IS true, it IS their right. thats what terms of service are for. quotation wikipedia:
Terms of service (abbreviated as ToS or TOS)[1] are rules by which one must agree to abide by in order to use a service. Unless in violation of consumer protection laws, such terms are usually legally binding.
you want to use the editor? didnt you agree to this rules? you dont want to agree to this rules you cant use the editor. its really simple. you can make a flash programm with the same TOS. its your right and you could own everything created with it. however nothing would be created with it, because there are alternatives. whoops.
end of discussion. you have no point.
I'll quote whoever I want, because it's proper forum etiquette, as it shows everyone who you're talking to, and exactly what you're responding to. That way there's no mis-communication.
And I don't believe WC3's editor ever stated directly "all your maps are belong to us", because if it did then Valve couldn't legally copywrite DOTA.... but they did. And so the fact that they copywrited it shows that it wasn't legally Blizzards property. So if the law itself says that Blizzard doesn't own our maps, who are you to say they do? Last I checked, you aren't above the law :/
Besides, law and TOS aside. It's just not ethical. Blizzard does absolutely NOTHING, they just give us an editor. They in absolutely no imaginable way help in the creation process of maps. Even -IF- they legally owned all the maps we produce, it's just unethical and greedy to go and take something we, the community, created and turn around and try to pawn it off as their own.
Blizzard has no rights to our maps, legally or ethically. We made them, just cuz we used their game doesn't give them the right to steal our content.
@Colt556: Go
proper forum etiquette? doubling the amount of text is proper forum etiquette.. well that is new to me. i always assumed i can insert reply marker so people don´t get confused to what i replied. silly me.
valve did not legally copywrite dota. they are attempting to trademark the name dota. "attempting" means nothing happened yet.
ethical aside it is fact that they can write the tos however they feel.. someone check the wc1 tos. maybe we resigned our souls allready to blizzard?
now lets see and wait what happenes.. oh btw. the german telekom wanted to "trademark" the letter T. they sued a smaller company and lost :>
To be fair blizzard's engine allowed for DOTA. They created a revolutionary hero RTS system combined with hero mechanics. They weren't however able to turn this into an epic RTS and their own game became overshadowed by the mod DOTA. But the map makers owed blizzard for the years of painstaking hard work that blizzard put into the actual engine and tools, they also hosted the map and advertised the overall game. The creators of dota simply came in and made all the years of development and marketing for warcraft III worth something by actually making it fun.
To my knowledge the makers of DOTA never payed blizzard their rightful portion of profit for making DOTA and in this sense, blizzard is entitled to a portion of the DOTA brand for their role in its creation. No wait that came out wrong, Blizzard never contributed to the creation of dota, or supported the modders, and reaped millions off of their hard work for nearly a decade. And now they want to keep the trademark open because it was create by "the community" which they are becoming increasingly hostile towards.
I feel like a broken record saying this, but people are still arguing that valve are the bad guys here.
Lets not forget team fortress originally came out in Quake. Team fortress 2 was made by the same team in the source engine and rightfully named accordingly. All this legal mumbojumbo, real ID, regional locking, suppression of user made maps has done nothing but damage the blizzard brand and tarnish sales as far as i can tell. I only hope they keep up these bullshit practices long enough to prove that it's not the most profitable way to run a corporation and we can all get back to making games and enjoying them without the corporate asshatery.
See, this fellow gets it. It's also another nail in Blizzard's coffin when Valve has the decency of acquiring atleast one of the devs of DOTA. How many dota-devs does Blizzard have working on their version? Oh, that's right :/
Lets open up the editor, oohh look a nice tool that Blizzard created and lets us use with their games, oh whats this, it says all maps made belong to Blizzard, oh maybe i dont want that, close the editor, end of story. My point is, as soon as you start to use their property, you must abide by their rules, if you dont want that, fuck off and play another game.
And colt, i seem to see a pattern in your posts, they all revolve around how you hate blizzard for a service they are providing, even if it is poor, the solution? dont use it, no one needs to hear your over excessive bitching.
Lets open up the editor, oohh look a nice tool that Blizzard created and lets us use with their games, oh whats this, it says all maps made belong to Blizzard, oh maybe i dont want that, close the editor, end of story. My point is, as soon as you start to use their property, you must abide by their rules, if you dont want that, fuck off and play another game.
And colt, i seem to see a pattern in your posts, they all revolve around how you hate blizzard for a service they are providing, even if it is poor, the solution? dont use it, no one needs to hear your over excessive bitching.
I don't use their service because it sucks. Besides don't change the subject, this has nothing to do with any services provided by Blizzard.
Whether you like it or not, Blizzard doesn't have a right to anything created by the community. They can throw in their eula "hurr we own your maps" (which I don't believe was in the WC3 eula anyways), and legally (maybe) they can own our maps. But as I have said, ethically, they have no right to our maps. Just because they give us an editor and let us create stuff on their game doesn't mean they contribute to what we create. They didn't come up with the gameplay of our maps, they didn't come up with the names of our maps, they didn't come up with anything. Just because we used their tools doesn't mean they have any right to what we made with them.
you are beeing reduntant.. and annoying. back that up with some facts maybe and we could discuss. this however is just written gibberish.
politicans dont have the right to get like 10k diets. yet they do. do they ethicaly have the right to judge on homosexual marriage? why do top athlets get millions of dollars. is this ethically right? huh weird..
"I don't use their service because it sucks. Besides don't change the subject, this has nothing to do with any services provided by Blizzard."
you are so hillarious xD why are you on sc2mapster again when you dont use anything from blizzard?
Blizzard was lucky DotA was created, its their fault they didn't take advantage of that. Icefrog has every right to do whatever he wants with it. There has always been a separation between Blizzard and the community. Hopefully this wakes up their eyes.
Aww, it's heaven!
Couldn't Valve take it to defend itself?
There's no Blizzard without Windows. So, Windows should trademark dota.
There's no Windows without Apple, So, Apple should trademark dota.
There's no Apple without C. There's no C without computer. Theres' no computer without scientists. There's no scientists without money. There's no money without greediness.
Therefore, there's no DotA without Activision.
Activision should be the one to trademark dota, not Valve.
If Microsoft designed the engine, all the artwork and modelled all the units for Blizzard, yeah, your example would make sense.
P.s. Blizzard partnered with Activision in 2007. WC3 was released in 2002, and TFT in '03.
What platforms the game was made on is entirely irrelevant. Just becuase it was made on WC3 does not give Blizzard the rights to it. It merely gives Blizzard the rights to the assets used, not the gameplay though, nor the name. Valve isn't trademarking the specific WC3 models, they're trademarking something that did not use a Blizzard product, and in no way belongs to Blizzard. Blizzard has no right to the maps WE create, so they should lose.
I laughed at the part where you said Windows runs on an Apple OS and that that Apple OS is programmed in C.
He didn't say that windows runs an apple OS, nor that Apple OS is programmed in C. :|
man colt.. do you know what you are talking about or are you just living in your happy baby world? everything created with the blizzard editor is owned by blizzard. if you use it you give up every right for the creation. they have the right to it. no discussion.
And yet if this were true, Valve wouldn't be able to trademark Dota. It's true NOW, in SC2, not in WC3. Blizzard owns what it created, the editor, the models. But it has absolutely no right to things created by the community. That'd be like the creator of a Flash program owning all the flash games/videos made with his program. It doesn't work that way. Blizzard has no rights to dota, they didn't develope the gameplay, or the heroes, or the name. Just because someone used their editor and their game, doesn't let blizzard own it.
@Colt556: Go
first of all: dont quote whats directly above your post. it makes you look stupid. second: better read the terms of service of the wc3 editor again. thirdly: it IS true, it IS their right. thats what terms of service are for. quotation wikipedia:
Terms of service (abbreviated as ToS or TOS)[1] are rules by which one must agree to abide by in order to use a service. Unless in violation of consumer protection laws, such terms are usually legally binding.
you want to use the editor? didnt you agree to this rules? you dont want to agree to this rules you cant use the editor. its really simple. you can make a flash programm with the same TOS. its your right and you could own everything created with it. however nothing would be created with it, because there are alternatives. whoops.
end of discussion. you have no point.
I'll quote whoever I want, because it's proper forum etiquette, as it shows everyone who you're talking to, and exactly what you're responding to. That way there's no mis-communication.
And I don't believe WC3's editor ever stated directly "all your maps are belong to us", because if it did then Valve couldn't legally copywrite DOTA.... but they did. And so the fact that they copywrited it shows that it wasn't legally Blizzards property. So if the law itself says that Blizzard doesn't own our maps, who are you to say they do? Last I checked, you aren't above the law :/
Besides, law and TOS aside. It's just not ethical. Blizzard does absolutely NOTHING, they just give us an editor. They in absolutely no imaginable way help in the creation process of maps. Even -IF- they legally owned all the maps we produce, it's just unethical and greedy to go and take something we, the community, created and turn around and try to pawn it off as their own.
Blizzard has no rights to our maps, legally or ethically. We made them, just cuz we used their game doesn't give them the right to steal our content.
@Colt556: Go proper forum etiquette? doubling the amount of text is proper forum etiquette.. well that is new to me. i always assumed i can insert reply marker so people don´t get confused to what i replied. silly me.
valve did not legally copywrite dota. they are attempting to trademark the name dota. "attempting" means nothing happened yet.
ethical aside it is fact that they can write the tos however they feel.. someone check the wc1 tos. maybe we resigned our souls allready to blizzard?
now lets see and wait what happenes.. oh btw. the german telekom wanted to "trademark" the letter T. they sued a smaller company and lost :>
To be fair blizzard's engine allowed for DOTA. They created a revolutionary hero RTS system combined with hero mechanics. They weren't however able to turn this into an epic RTS and their own game became overshadowed by the mod DOTA. But the map makers owed blizzard for the years of painstaking hard work that blizzard put into the actual engine and tools, they also hosted the map and advertised the overall game. The creators of dota simply came in and made all the years of development and marketing for warcraft III worth something by actually making it fun.
To my knowledge the makers of DOTA never payed blizzard their rightful portion of profit for making DOTA and in this sense, blizzard is entitled to a portion of the DOTA brand for their role in its creation. No wait that came out wrong, Blizzard never contributed to the creation of dota, or supported the modders, and reaped millions off of their hard work for nearly a decade. And now they want to keep the trademark open because it was create by "the community" which they are becoming increasingly hostile towards.
I feel like a broken record saying this, but people are still arguing that valve are the bad guys here.
Lets not forget team fortress originally came out in Quake. Team fortress 2 was made by the same team in the source engine and rightfully named accordingly. All this legal mumbojumbo, real ID, regional locking, suppression of user made maps has done nothing but damage the blizzard brand and tarnish sales as far as i can tell. I only hope they keep up these bullshit practices long enough to prove that it's not the most profitable way to run a corporation and we can all get back to making games and enjoying them without the corporate asshatery.
@crazyfingers619: Go
See, this fellow gets it. It's also another nail in Blizzard's coffin when Valve has the decency of acquiring atleast one of the devs of DOTA. How many dota-devs does Blizzard have working on their version? Oh, that's right :/
Lets open up the editor, oohh look a nice tool that Blizzard created and lets us use with their games, oh whats this, it says all maps made belong to Blizzard, oh maybe i dont want that, close the editor, end of story. My point is, as soon as you start to use their property, you must abide by their rules, if you dont want that, fuck off and play another game.
And colt, i seem to see a pattern in your posts, they all revolve around how you hate blizzard for a service they are providing, even if it is poor, the solution? dont use it, no one needs to hear your over excessive bitching.
I don't use their service because it sucks. Besides don't change the subject, this has nothing to do with any services provided by Blizzard.
Whether you like it or not, Blizzard doesn't have a right to anything created by the community. They can throw in their eula "hurr we own your maps" (which I don't believe was in the WC3 eula anyways), and legally (maybe) they can own our maps. But as I have said, ethically, they have no right to our maps. Just because they give us an editor and let us create stuff on their game doesn't mean they contribute to what we create. They didn't come up with the gameplay of our maps, they didn't come up with the names of our maps, they didn't come up with anything. Just because we used their tools doesn't mean they have any right to what we made with them.
you are beeing reduntant.. and annoying. back that up with some facts maybe and we could discuss. this however is just written gibberish.
politicans dont have the right to get like 10k diets. yet they do. do they ethicaly have the right to judge on homosexual marriage? why do top athlets get millions of dollars. is this ethically right? huh weird..
"I don't use their service because it sucks. Besides don't change the subject, this has nothing to do with any services provided by Blizzard." you are so hillarious xD why are you on sc2mapster again when you dont use anything from blizzard?
All in all i'm crossing my fingers that Valve gives em the swift kick in the nuts, personally.
I believe Valve shouldn't have right's to copyright it since it was originally made on WC3/SC1 I support blizzard on this more then valve.
@Ryaneko: Go
^ correct, so colt your argument is therefor invalid.
Blizzard was lucky DotA was created, its their fault they didn't take advantage of that. Icefrog has every right to do whatever he wants with it. There has always been a separation between Blizzard and the community. Hopefully this wakes up their eyes.