The ones on SC2 are mad shitty. Anyone have one in development, or is everyone just waiting for Blizzard's map?
AOS games are by far the most compelling team play mods for these overhead RTS games when talking about how competitive they are. I'm surprised there aren't more of them, though the amount of work you have to put in to create one in SC2 is quite high.
Many people would probably make one, but there's no competing with blizzard's DOTA. Even if you could, you would have to be significantly better than Sotis in order to get any attention, and even then you will never have access to matchmaking and ladder systems like blizzard. In other words, it's a TON of work to make a half-decent dota map, and the chances of it being far better than blizzard's map are quite low. Though we did have one major AoS map in development from Eternal Wraith...Not sure if it's disappeared, or if they're waiting on the map marketplace.
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Many people would probably make one, but there's no competing with blizzard's DOTA. Even if you could, you would have to be significantly better than Sotis in order to get any attention, and even then you will never have access to matchmaking and ladder systems like blizzard. In other words, it's a TON of work to make a half-decent dota map, and the chances of it being far better than blizzard's map are quite low. Though we did have one major AoS map in development from Eternal Wraith...Not sure if it's disappeared, or if they're waiting on the map marketplace.
Yeah I had pm'ed with him a bit about his map, but that was like last August and haven't heard anything since. Sotis doesn't bring anything new to the genre whatsoever and I never liked how it was presented. I'm excited about Blizzard's map because they seem to be addressing a lot of the problems with the genre and returning it to its roots. The original DOTA is a lot different than what it became in DOTA Allstars on TFT, and Blizzard seems to be incorporating some of the better concepts from both and fixing the core issues that the gameplay of the Allstars-like maps have.
it was just weird, a few years back thinking about how powerful the SC2 engine would be compared to WC3 and all we have to show for it with AOS mods are a mediocre Allstars clone and... hero attack? Kind of sad
I find all current MOBA games, Pretty much the same experience, with teh exception of MNC
From WC3 to LoL, not much has changed, I will be playing blizzard to atleast try it, and get the portriat maybe.
I'm currently working on Temple Siege 2, too.
It has its roots in StarCraft Broodwar and is quite popular there.
Its design is different than DOTA and LoL. Heroes have limited (!) lives, you can capture outposts, upgrades instead of items, linear spell unlocking, victory via hero slaying or temple killing, you can build assimilators to generate income.
Oh, and I made a small AI that doesn't suck completely. :D
But we didn't even create a real internal match, so it's far from being done. :S
Can you elaborate what makes the current ones terrible and what a good map would look like?
:3 well I am creating a Hero PVP map... that's like a 3v3v3v3 DotA with a few unique mechanics. I am working on Hero development and it will be a few months before I release a BETA.
Instead of complaining about the qualities of the maps I would suggest creating one yourself. How dare you!!!! There are only so many effect assets and so many abilities that can be edited into the the game and development takes a while if you have a life. I found that a lot of the Hero Attack unit special abilities are basic summoning more attack and armor buffs... not alot of unique abilities and most of which are abilities from the old SOTIS map like the old Immortal Solace (SOTIS) and summoning the ancients spell on the Immortal in Hero Attack.
I think TOFU is coming out but I'm not sure when...
I am also waiting until Blizzards map is done because of:
1) The new model editor available in HOTS
2) New Unit and data assets released into the editor
3) New Editor Mechanics that will allow players to create a better AOS map
4) New UI editor
There will be a multitude of Blizzard DOTA maps... when Heart of the swarm comes out. I can't wait to see all of the new units that are in the campaign only!!!!
:3 well I am creating a Hero PVP map... that's like a 3v3v3v3 DotA with a few unique mechanics. I am working on Hero development and it will be a few months before I release a BETA.
Instead of complaining about the qualities of the maps I would suggest creating one yourself. How dare you!!!! There are only so many effect assets and so many abilities that can be edited into the the game and development takes a while if you have a life. I found that a lot of the Hero Attack unit special abilities are basic summoning more attack and armor buffs... not alot of unique abilities and most of which are abilities from the old SOTIS map like the old Immortal Solace (SOTIS) and summoning the ancients spell on the Immortal in Hero Attack.
I think TOFU is coming out but I'm not sure when...
I am also waiting until Blizzards map is done because of:
1) The new model editor available in HOTS 2) New Unit and data assets released into the editor 3) New Editor Mechanics that will allow players to create a better AOS map 4) New UI editor
There will be a multitude of Blizzard DOTA maps... when Heart of the swarm comes out. I can't wait to see all of the new units that are in the campaign only!!!!
I doubt someone could actually create a map that uses Blizzard's own assets from their DOTA map to make a better one. I don't think people collectively would be able to create a map with equal or better art assets, programming, UI modification, a better map concept, etc. Blizzard has the artists and the programmers, and we're all kind of on our own here. Existing maps that people love will likely continue to be played, but you're going to have your choice of AoS maps; Sotis for your Allstars clone fixation (though why you wouldn't go play WC3/Dota2 or LoL is beyond me) while you're too lazy to log off your SC2 client and load up WC3 or DOTA2 or LOL, and Blizzard DOTA for a different experience.
Whenever I've compared Blizzard DOTA to Allstars, I've used the term "chess match" to describe Blizzard DOTA and "hide and seek" to describe Allstars. Blizzard's DOTA solves many of the issues with the Allstars gamestyle (long, non spectator friendly games, individualism, memorization) but in doing so, may oversimplify things to the point where individual skill is hard to measure.
They will be two completely different styles of AOS, that's for sure. Hopefully Blizzard can strike jackpot with balancing simplicity on the front end with depth on the back end and giving room for great players to separate themselves.
People Play video games for different reasons... it has nothing to do with being lazy. Also just because "you doubt" it can be done, does not mean it isn't possible. The primary reasons why there isn't a influx of high quality maps are:
1) It takes a lot of time and effort to create a HQ map
2) Map development is a hobby and most people aren't paid for their work.
Out of the millions of Starcraft 2 players you have to admit that a good percentage of them are video game developers with the ability to create custom models and data assets as well as coding and programing games that are just like Starcraft. Some may even like to develop custom maps in their spare time as a hobby... however most of them would not take the time to create a full game to please a whiny little troll on a gaming forum with this RTS engine... because their time would be better spent creating original ideas for their employers or creating original I.P. There are also plenty of students on this website that have the skills or are learning how to create custom assets in programs like 3DS max and Carrera. Hell the Starcraft Universe mod started with a few students and their project has been picked up and supported by Blizzard.
:3 stop complaining and do something about it... Geesh maybe some people just don't want to play LOL or DOTA 2 and love starcraft give me a break and QQ somewhere else my friend. Also to be honest the data assets are awesome and amazing but the 3 of the 4 maps that were released honestly weren't all that great... DOTA 2 is basically going to be like SOTIS with minor changes to the games mechanics and snazy UI in which the code for will be open source and usable by the community.
People Play video games for different reasons... it has nothing to do with being lazy. Also just because "you doubt" it can be done, does not mean it isn't possible. The primary reasons why there isn't a influx of high quality maps are:
1) It takes a lot of time and effort to create a HQ map 2) Map development is a hobby and most people aren't paid for their work.
Out of the millions of Starcraft 2 players you have to admit that a good percentage of them are video game developers with the ability to create custom models and data assets as well as coding and programing games that are just like Starcraft. Some may even like to develop custom maps in their spare time as a hobby... however most of them would not take the time to create a full game to please a whiny little troll on a gaming forum with this RTS engine... because their time would be better spent creating original ideas for their employers or creating original I.P. There are also plenty of students on this website that have the skills or are learning how to create custom assets in programs like 3DS max and Carrera. Hell the Starcraft Universe mod started with a few students and their project has been picked up and supported by Blizzard.
:3 stop complaining and do something about it... Geesh maybe some people just don't want to play LOL or DOTA 2 and love starcraft give me a break and QQ somewhere else my friend. Also to be honest the data assets are awesome and amazing but the 3 of the 4 maps that were released honestly weren't all that great... DOTA 2 is basically going to be like SOTIS with minor changes to the games mechanics and snazy UI in which the code for will be open source and usable by the community.
Quit getting hostile and defensive with me. You look pathetic.
1. I'm not complaining;
2. I never said anyone was lazy outside of sarcastically teasing people about playing on their SC2 client. I was saying Sotis is the exact same experience as the 3 other games, in an attempt to point out that the reason Blizzard DOTA is exciting is because it is completely different;
3. I'm not QQing;
4. I said Sotis was mediocre. Sotis fanboy much?
All I said was I doubt anyone is going to find the motivation, time and ability to create an AoS map better than Blizzard's DOTA, that will still differentiate from LOL/Allstars/DOTA 2 and Blizzard DOTA to the point where it's not just a copy.
thanks for your time. Back to the topic please, instead of attacking me out of fanboyism. TY
@saltygrapes: Go
If somebody pay me, I can make a rmk of Battle Tanks.
Currently as I know only Eiviyn made Battle Tanks like AOS map, but its quite different. And as I know no one is developing a new one.
The good thing about Battle Tanks that its really different compared to Dota like maps. So it wouldnt have big competition with blizzard dota.
Have you tried that new tank mod on 1.5 Beta? It has an AoS mode, which was intriguing when I played it but its very buggy and has many kinks yet to work out but it looks like an awesome mod
@saltygrapes: Go
Total Destruction 2 or how its called? Thats an fps like map. Even if it will have aos mode with item shops and so on, It will be really different from Btanks.
(Also wasd movement still lags and it will probably always lag)
There's nothing to complain about, there's no point to make a new AoS if it's gonna be the same as DotA/HoN/LoL. SotiS and Hero Attack share the same idea but change small aspects, it wont innovate and that's normal. Until we see something very different, AoS won't be revolutionized in Sc2.
When Blizzard DotA comes out, it will bring a lot of features the community can use to create a much better DotA map than Blizzard ever would be able to. So wait for that at least.
Blizzard is a great company, but when they try to make games/maps that are not either a RPG or RTS game, they fail miserable.. They never made a somewhat successful custom-map for their games, even though they tried countless times now. The community is simply better at doing new stuff, while Blizzard is the best in the world to do what they do best: polishing a simple product for years more than other companies would, until that product is perfect, they only worked on Blizzard DotA for a year, while D3 was 10 years etc... Blizzard DotA is not gonna be at Blizzard-game quality.
One of the major things to remember is that Blizzard is not making Blizzard Allstars. A small subset of their company is, and it is not nearly as large as any of their other game teams. I'm sure it will be very high quality, but from what I have seen it is basically DotA, LoL, HoN, etc. There is very little that is different.
The community has always been the one to carry the custom mapping forward. The real benefit to this whole thing is that we have an updated editor because Blizzard found out that making anything decent was an extreme headache.
As an AOS developer, this doesn't deter me at all. Keep plugging away guys, I know I will be!
You must've not kept up. They're making BDotA a selling point of HotS, including as a ranked alternative to melee matches. They're not making another Starjeweled.
As a pretend DotA developer while I write this sentence, the league feature alone would put me off making a sc2 DotA map.
Oh dammit.
My AOS map is going to hell if Blizzard Allstars is too popular.
But my map offers your very own hero, instead of several Blizz heroes.
Looking forward to it anyways.
One of the major things to remember is that Blizzard is not making Blizzard Allstars. A small subset of their company is, and it is not nearly as large as any of their other game teams. I'm sure it will be very high quality, but from what I have seen it is basically DotA, LoL, HoN, etc. There is very little that is different.
The community has always been the one to carry the custom mapping forward. The real benefit to this whole thing is that we have an updated editor because Blizzard found out that making anything decent was an extreme headache.
As an AOS developer, this doesn't deter me at all. Keep plugging away guys, I know I will be!
I think grouping Blizzard's map in with the other popular Allstars spinoffs is a big mistake. Blizzard's map has a completely different gameplay philosophy from Allstars,Hon and LOL. Blizzard's map is a lot like the original DOTA on ROC. Healers, support heroes, siege heroes, etc.; the point is to kill the other team's base, and you're not pigeonholed into herokilling, farming and the "carry" concept as a means to fight over gold amounts to acquire enough items to where you can actually make a meaningful push. I'm sure herokilling lineups will be a very viable option in Blizzard dota, but you're not forced to go that route. If you've played enough AOS, Blizzard's map is a complete contrast in style to those mods.
A close friend played the Blizzard DOTA build at Blizzcon multiple times. Games are far shorter, and team battles are longer due to having specialized support/healing classes. Furthermore, from his eyes, the snowball effect seemed much less apparent because the losing team always had potential ways to turn the tide of the game that existed ON the map itself and weren't related to gold or items. If they strategized well and started outplaying the other team, there was a much better opportunity for a comeback.
The point I'm trying to make here is that Blizzard's map is sticking to the formula in certain ways, but the gameplay of their map is TOTALLY different than the All-Stars clones out there right now. You're not forced to herokill, gank, and play it like a hero arena, which is a refreshing change.
Im kind of afraid Blizzard dota will fail at the hero design. From what Iv seen the heroes seemed boring (even thou they should be EPIC since they are from blizzard universe).
I hope they can bring something like Pudge, Axe, Jakiro, Firebat etc...from dota. No need to copy but unique gameplay mechanics that can totally change the gameplay of a hero...You know you have done hero design right when you get spinoff games from one hero.
But I still think they will fail it. Maybe it well be ok and fun, but wont reach the stellar gameplay and feeling that dota had.
You're jumping to conclusions before Blizzard DOTA has even been released yet.... it's just gonna be another moba clone with unique data assets.
1) Stop QQ'ing
2) Nobody cares about what you think
3) Pathetic.... lol like I care about what anyone on the internet thinks about me. IRL if you disrespected me you would get molly whopped.
4) Blizzard DOTA is going to be like the other 3 maps... everyone plays it for a few weeks... people QQ about it and compares it to HON, DOTA, and SOTIS... and someone will take the data assets and create a cooler map or a better unique map design. Perhaps a SOTIS 2.0 of TOFU 1.0
Also I don't care to play SOTIS that much even though its a pretty solid map design given the tools available for the original map design team.
But I digress... you are entitled to your opinion that no one cares about :p
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The ones on SC2 are mad shitty. Anyone have one in development, or is everyone just waiting for Blizzard's map?
AOS games are by far the most compelling team play mods for these overhead RTS games when talking about how competitive they are. I'm surprised there aren't more of them, though the amount of work you have to put in to create one in SC2 is quite high.
Many people would probably make one, but there's no competing with blizzard's DOTA. Even if you could, you would have to be significantly better than Sotis in order to get any attention, and even then you will never have access to matchmaking and ladder systems like blizzard. In other words, it's a TON of work to make a half-decent dota map, and the chances of it being far better than blizzard's map are quite low. Though we did have one major AoS map in development from Eternal Wraith...Not sure if it's disappeared, or if they're waiting on the map marketplace.
Yeah I had pm'ed with him a bit about his map, but that was like last August and haven't heard anything since. Sotis doesn't bring anything new to the genre whatsoever and I never liked how it was presented. I'm excited about Blizzard's map because they seem to be addressing a lot of the problems with the genre and returning it to its roots. The original DOTA is a lot different than what it became in DOTA Allstars on TFT, and Blizzard seems to be incorporating some of the better concepts from both and fixing the core issues that the gameplay of the Allstars-like maps have.
it was just weird, a few years back thinking about how powerful the SC2 engine would be compared to WC3 and all we have to show for it with AOS mods are a mediocre Allstars clone and... hero attack? Kind of sad
I find all current MOBA games, Pretty much the same experience, with teh exception of MNC From WC3 to LoL, not much has changed, I will be playing blizzard to atleast try it, and get the portriat maybe.
I'm currently working on Temple Siege 2, too.
It has its roots in StarCraft Broodwar and is quite popular there.
Its design is different than DOTA and LoL. Heroes have limited (!) lives, you can capture outposts, upgrades instead of items, linear spell unlocking, victory via hero slaying or temple killing, you can build assimilators to generate income.
Oh, and I made a small AI that doesn't suck completely. :D
But we didn't even create a real internal match, so it's far from being done. :S
Can you elaborate what makes the current ones terrible and what a good map would look like?
:3 well I am creating a Hero PVP map... that's like a 3v3v3v3 DotA with a few unique mechanics. I am working on Hero development and it will be a few months before I release a BETA.
Instead of complaining about the qualities of the maps I would suggest creating one yourself. How dare you!!!! There are only so many effect assets and so many abilities that can be edited into the the game and development takes a while if you have a life. I found that a lot of the Hero Attack unit special abilities are basic summoning more attack and armor buffs... not alot of unique abilities and most of which are abilities from the old SOTIS map like the old Immortal Solace (SOTIS) and summoning the ancients spell on the Immortal in Hero Attack.
I think TOFU is coming out but I'm not sure when...
I am also waiting until Blizzards map is done because of:
1) The new model editor available in HOTS 2) New Unit and data assets released into the editor 3) New Editor Mechanics that will allow players to create a better AOS map 4) New UI editor
There will be a multitude of Blizzard DOTA maps... when Heart of the swarm comes out. I can't wait to see all of the new units that are in the campaign only!!!!
I doubt someone could actually create a map that uses Blizzard's own assets from their DOTA map to make a better one. I don't think people collectively would be able to create a map with equal or better art assets, programming, UI modification, a better map concept, etc. Blizzard has the artists and the programmers, and we're all kind of on our own here. Existing maps that people love will likely continue to be played, but you're going to have your choice of AoS maps; Sotis for your Allstars clone fixation (though why you wouldn't go play WC3/Dota2 or LoL is beyond me) while you're too lazy to log off your SC2 client and load up WC3 or DOTA2 or LOL, and Blizzard DOTA for a different experience.
Whenever I've compared Blizzard DOTA to Allstars, I've used the term "chess match" to describe Blizzard DOTA and "hide and seek" to describe Allstars. Blizzard's DOTA solves many of the issues with the Allstars gamestyle (long, non spectator friendly games, individualism, memorization) but in doing so, may oversimplify things to the point where individual skill is hard to measure.
They will be two completely different styles of AOS, that's for sure. Hopefully Blizzard can strike jackpot with balancing simplicity on the front end with depth on the back end and giving room for great players to separate themselves.
People Play video games for different reasons... it has nothing to do with being lazy. Also just because "you doubt" it can be done, does not mean it isn't possible. The primary reasons why there isn't a influx of high quality maps are:
1) It takes a lot of time and effort to create a HQ map 2) Map development is a hobby and most people aren't paid for their work.
Out of the millions of Starcraft 2 players you have to admit that a good percentage of them are video game developers with the ability to create custom models and data assets as well as coding and programing games that are just like Starcraft. Some may even like to develop custom maps in their spare time as a hobby... however most of them would not take the time to create a full game to please a whiny little troll on a gaming forum with this RTS engine... because their time would be better spent creating original ideas for their employers or creating original I.P. There are also plenty of students on this website that have the skills or are learning how to create custom assets in programs like 3DS max and Carrera. Hell the Starcraft Universe mod started with a few students and their project has been picked up and supported by Blizzard.
:3 stop complaining and do something about it... Geesh maybe some people just don't want to play LOL or DOTA 2 and love starcraft give me a break and QQ somewhere else my friend. Also to be honest the data assets are awesome and amazing but the 3 of the 4 maps that were released honestly weren't all that great... DOTA 2 is basically going to be like SOTIS with minor changes to the games mechanics and snazy UI in which the code for will be open source and usable by the community.
Quit getting hostile and defensive with me. You look pathetic.
1. I'm not complaining; 2. I never said anyone was lazy outside of sarcastically teasing people about playing on their SC2 client. I was saying Sotis is the exact same experience as the 3 other games, in an attempt to point out that the reason Blizzard DOTA is exciting is because it is completely different; 3. I'm not QQing; 4. I said Sotis was mediocre. Sotis fanboy much?
All I said was I doubt anyone is going to find the motivation, time and ability to create an AoS map better than Blizzard's DOTA, that will still differentiate from LOL/Allstars/DOTA 2 and Blizzard DOTA to the point where it's not just a copy.
thanks for your time. Back to the topic please, instead of attacking me out of fanboyism. TY
@saltygrapes: Go If somebody pay me, I can make a rmk of Battle Tanks.
Currently as I know only Eiviyn made Battle Tanks like AOS map, but its quite different. And as I know no one is developing a new one.
The good thing about Battle Tanks that its really different compared to Dota like maps. So it wouldnt have big competition with blizzard dota.
@Hookah604: Go
Have you tried that new tank mod on 1.5 Beta? It has an AoS mode, which was intriguing when I played it but its very buggy and has many kinks yet to work out but it looks like an awesome mod
@saltygrapes: Go Total Destruction 2 or how its called? Thats an fps like map. Even if it will have aos mode with item shops and so on, It will be really different from Btanks.
(Also wasd movement still lags and it will probably always lag)
There's nothing to complain about, there's no point to make a new AoS if it's gonna be the same as DotA/HoN/LoL. SotiS and Hero Attack share the same idea but change small aspects, it wont innovate and that's normal. Until we see something very different, AoS won't be revolutionized in Sc2.
Even with Blizzard DotA.
When Blizzard DotA comes out, it will bring a lot of features the community can use to create a much better DotA map than Blizzard ever would be able to. So wait for that at least.
Blizzard is a great company, but when they try to make games/maps that are not either a RPG or RTS game, they fail miserable.. They never made a somewhat successful custom-map for their games, even though they tried countless times now. The community is simply better at doing new stuff, while Blizzard is the best in the world to do what they do best: polishing a simple product for years more than other companies would, until that product is perfect, they only worked on Blizzard DotA for a year, while D3 was 10 years etc... Blizzard DotA is not gonna be at Blizzard-game quality.
One of the major things to remember is that Blizzard is not making Blizzard Allstars. A small subset of their company is, and it is not nearly as large as any of their other game teams. I'm sure it will be very high quality, but from what I have seen it is basically DotA, LoL, HoN, etc. There is very little that is different.
The community has always been the one to carry the custom mapping forward. The real benefit to this whole thing is that we have an updated editor because Blizzard found out that making anything decent was an extreme headache.
As an AOS developer, this doesn't deter me at all. Keep plugging away guys, I know I will be!
You must've not kept up. They're making BDotA a selling point of HotS, including as a ranked alternative to melee matches. They're not making another Starjeweled.
As a pretend DotA developer while I write this sentence, the league feature alone would put me off making a sc2 DotA map.
Oh dammit.
My AOS map is going to hell if Blizzard Allstars is too popular.
But my map offers your very own hero, instead of several Blizz heroes.
Looking forward to it anyways.
I think grouping Blizzard's map in with the other popular Allstars spinoffs is a big mistake. Blizzard's map has a completely different gameplay philosophy from Allstars,Hon and LOL. Blizzard's map is a lot like the original DOTA on ROC. Healers, support heroes, siege heroes, etc.; the point is to kill the other team's base, and you're not pigeonholed into herokilling, farming and the "carry" concept as a means to fight over gold amounts to acquire enough items to where you can actually make a meaningful push. I'm sure herokilling lineups will be a very viable option in Blizzard dota, but you're not forced to go that route. If you've played enough AOS, Blizzard's map is a complete contrast in style to those mods.
A close friend played the Blizzard DOTA build at Blizzcon multiple times. Games are far shorter, and team battles are longer due to having specialized support/healing classes. Furthermore, from his eyes, the snowball effect seemed much less apparent because the losing team always had potential ways to turn the tide of the game that existed ON the map itself and weren't related to gold or items. If they strategized well and started outplaying the other team, there was a much better opportunity for a comeback.
The point I'm trying to make here is that Blizzard's map is sticking to the formula in certain ways, but the gameplay of their map is TOTALLY different than the All-Stars clones out there right now. You're not forced to herokill, gank, and play it like a hero arena, which is a refreshing change.
Im kind of afraid Blizzard dota will fail at the hero design. From what Iv seen the heroes seemed boring (even thou they should be EPIC since they are from blizzard universe).
I hope they can bring something like Pudge, Axe, Jakiro, Firebat etc...from dota. No need to copy but unique gameplay mechanics that can totally change the gameplay of a hero...You know you have done hero design right when you get spinoff games from one hero.
But I still think they will fail it. Maybe it well be ok and fun, but wont reach the stellar gameplay and feeling that dota had.
@saltygrapes: Go
You're jumping to conclusions before Blizzard DOTA has even been released yet.... it's just gonna be another moba clone with unique data assets.
1) Stop QQ'ing 2) Nobody cares about what you think 3) Pathetic.... lol like I care about what anyone on the internet thinks about me. IRL if you disrespected me you would get molly whopped. 4) Blizzard DOTA is going to be like the other 3 maps... everyone plays it for a few weeks... people QQ about it and compares it to HON, DOTA, and SOTIS... and someone will take the data assets and create a cooler map or a better unique map design. Perhaps a SOTIS 2.0 of TOFU 1.0
Also I don't care to play SOTIS that much even though its a pretty solid map design given the tools available for the original map design team.
But I digress... you are entitled to your opinion that no one cares about :p