They should just make the popularity system optional, have both the old AND the new. Feeling lazy? Don't wanna look for a map? Wanna just join a quick tug game? Go to the popularity system and play nexus wars. However if you'd like to see a wide array of maps, all of which you KNOW have people playing them, you use the old system. I've said from the moment they mentioned the publishing/popularity system, they need to make it OPTIONAL. I'm sure some people (god knows why) enjoy the new system, many more don't. So making it optional and giving people a choice is the best of both worlds. EVERYONES happy.
This is exactly what I want. I agree wholeheartedly and have voiced this opinion in the past. Keep both systems. Best of both worlds. But as you have said, Blizzard is stubborn and this is why we need to do something like your 5 min map boosting. Maybe you can make a separate topic for this so we can have a place to rally map makers to this idea?
@KratsAU: Go
But you know what, I'll humour you, come up with ideas to fix it and I'll shoot them down, explaining why they wont work.
You do realize that you keep making the suggestion of making the Popularity system optional, guess what, that's a suggestion on how to improve the system without removing it. If you stop being so negative for 5 seconds, you might actually realize that you can have a system that works and includes some sort of popularity system (which might even involved making the popularity system optional).
Have you ever stopped to think about other services that use popularity systems? Notice how they let you sort by popularity, or sort by name, or sort by ... whatever. Guess what happens when you stop sorting by popularity - you effectively turn it off.
So like I have already said, it's not necessarily the popularity system that is the problem, in fact I think they almost had the right idea, it's the lack of supporting features that is the problem. There is no way to search for a map, there is no way to sort the list.
Think about it, even without a popularity system, you might have 1,000 custom games running. You upload your new map and create a game, how is someone going to find your game and join it? They still have to find it amongst the thousand other games.
If they took the existing system, allowed you to search, added game categories, allowed you to sorty by name/author/players/popularity and changed the method of calculating popularity, you would have a much better system that makes it easier to find games, but still has the popularity system, which is a good way for new players to jump right in and play a popular map.
I'm not saying the old system was bad or anything, but I think there is a middle ground that could result in a better system.
He effectively agrees with you. Both of you say that there can be some kind of middle ground so I think you can leave it at that. You even mentioned how he just said that there could be a middle ground so your first paragraph criticizing him wasn't really necessary.
What you disagree on isn't how the system can be improved, but rather how we can get Blizzard to improve it. You say that by simply asking some more, Blizzard will fix the system while he states that we need to do something else to show Blizzard we're serious about our dislike of the system in its current state.
Krat, for the love of god, stop exaggerating to make your point. "Thousands of games", seriously dude? Neither SC nor WC3 had "thousands of games", they didn't even have hundreds. There were like, 50-60 lobbies at any given time, and if it was a good map it'd be full and started in 5 mins. Honestly, the way you talk makes me think you never played WC3.
Also, making is optional isn't a way of fixing the popularity, and you taking it as such is soooo grasping for straws. Fixing implies.. well.. fixing. Making it optional doesn't fix it, it just means we don't have to use it. Making it optional accomplishes the same as outright removing it, only the 1% who actually like it can still use it. It'll still be a broken system where only boosted maps can be on the top, it'll just be an optional broken system.
I'm sorry man, but you need to get it through your head that the popularity system will -NEVER- work. Things with popularity systems are things like netflix. I'm not looking for a movie to take home and watch, nor a game to take home and play. I'm looking for a game to play with other people. Name me -ONE- online game where the only way of finding other players was some stupid popularity system. The system may work for shopping, but not for gaming. The hosting method worked because you'd browse through the ever-updating list, seeing what people were playing, not what was played most, what people were playing at that very fucking second. And you'd join what you wanted. If nothing appealed to you, you'd go and host a map that did.
WC3 was the pinnacle of perfection, what few problems it had could simply be fixed. You can try to defend the broken popularity system until you're blue in the face, but you'll never find a solution to fix it, because you CAN'T fix it. Only way to fix it, is to get rid of it, either by making it optional or outright getting rid of it. And that's what we need to push for, we need to organize all those who hate this abomination, and force blizzard to change back to a system that's worked for over a decade.
somebody make a stupid map which makes to the top 10 and when its there, change its name or content...
I suggest It should be stupid 1 player td with 5 minute content.
somebody make a stupid map which makes to the top 10 and when its there, change its name or content...
I suggest It should be stupid 1 player td with 5 minute content.
-Points to the thread he just made-, we should ALL do that. The first two pages being nothing beyond shitty maps that all express how we want the old hosting system back. Organized protests :(
-Points to the thread he just made-, we should ALL do that. The first two pages being nothing beyond shitty maps that all express how we want the old hosting system back. Organized protests :(
It can't, and wont work. You're naive if you think a system that TELLS people what is and isn't popular will work. The popularity system in SC and WC3 worked because the players decided what was popular, on SC2 the system itself decides what's popular, it CAN'T be fixed, get your head out of your ass and you'd realize this. Besides you have yet to put forth a single idea that'd fix the system, and considering how much you claim it can be fixed, that's a little self-defeating.
Besides, they can't ban accounts for my idea. They never said your maps had to meet a minimum content quota, the maps wont be violating any of the rules they've put forth. What could they ban us for?
It can't, and wont work. You're naive if you think a system that TELLS people what is and isn't popular will work.
You're naive for thinking it can't work, and you are contradicting yourself. First you are saying a popularity system can't work, then you say the Wc3 system worked because the people decided what is popular. This means a popularity system can work, you just need to change the way the popularity is calculated.
They can do whatever they want, and I would hope they would ban people that intentionally try and mess up the system. It's their game, they can make it work how they like, you can either work within their system or go elsewhere.
You're naive for thinking it can't work, and you are contradicting yourself. First you are saying a popularity system can't work, then you say the Wc3 system worked because the people decided what is popular. This means a popularity system can work, you just need to change the way the popularity is calculated.
They can do whatever they want, and I would hope they would ban people that intentionally try and mess up the system. It's their game, they can make it work how they like, you can either work within their system or go elsewhere.
I never said -A- popularity system can't work, I said -THIS- popularity system can't work. WC3 and SC relied on a popularity system that was neither monitored, nor automated, nor controlled. It was simply, popular maps get hosted and played a lot, non-popular maps didn't. It works because it was in the hands of the players. THIS, specific system doesn't work because it's automated. The players aren't deciding what's popular, they're being told what's popular. THIS system can not, and never will work, if you want a popularity system that works, that'd be WC3.
I never said -A- popularity system can't work, I said -THIS- popularity system can't work.
Well you said it can't be fixed. Since when can't fixing it involve changing the way the popularity system works? THIS system can work, even if it means changing how it works.
I can tell you now, blizzard, or any developer for that matter, is much more likely to work with ideas that build on/improve their current system, than ditch everything they have because people are bitching away and giving them shit about it.
If you can't see that, then we just have to disagree, and leave it at that.
Perhaps keep the pop system for hosting. And have a list displaying hosted maps for joining. Thus, even if you host a map that isn't popular, people can still see it easily, and can join easily.
There should many ways to list the maps (by host joined time, upload date, player amounts...) , but popularity system shouldnt be default in any case. Sadly now the only way to list the maps according this crap system. Probably they could change this crap system under 1 day, but they wont because they are hard headed, I hope when their maps will fail on this system, than they will realize that its crap and will sorry for us...
Im sorry but bitching about the pop system here on SC2Mapster is not going to accomplish anything other then get people riled up. Blizzard already has acknowledged that they need to make changes to it.... what more then you want..
Colt please quit complaining you didnt even buy the game..... also... how are they fucking anybody in the ass with the pop system..... wait dont answer that because obviously you think your intitled to everything you want... well son you are wrong... you get what they give you and you need to make the best of it....
Its honestly Not that complicated to get your map up on the list. Ive done it several times with my own maps. and I have had several friends that got thier maps up on to the 2nd and 3rd pages and thier maps are still on the 2nd and 3rd pages.... we all can have our maps on the first page oh well...
Why are you guys talking about making suggestions about the pop system here on SC2mapster..... they arnt gonna use anything you write in this topic....
Also colt.... since you dont even log on bnet WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU BITCHING.... PLZ STFU
Man, I hate when people pull the entitled card. You know what? I -AM- fucking entitled. If I pay 60 bucks for a game, I am ENTITLED to be able to enjoy it and play it as I see fit. It's not blizzard's place to babysit us all, telling us what's inappropriate and keeping us from doing what we want. What made SC and WC3 good was the freedom they gave, SC2 takes all that freedom away, freedom I am ENTITLED to. If they wanted to make the publishing system and popularity system optional, then by all means, implement bullshit restrictions to maintain control. But you can't force me to use these systems AND force your restrictions on me, it's horse shit to the highest degree.
Also, I didn't buy the game because of this shit, if they got their heads out of their collective asses and fixed this shit, I'd buy the game in a heart beat.
im going to start botting my map and i dont care about morality anymore, So many map botters out there. , my map is 12 players , and lasts for 30-45 minutes. I am dropping spots at times especially at nightimes cause of the way blizzard gauges 12 player maps is completely flawed. As a friend said to me, if a system sucks, abuse it. Either that or you can kiss your projects goodbye cause no-one will ever join the game ,.
im sure if i make some 3 player bunker defense 7 min game thats totally ridiculously hectic can blow the charts in popularity. This system sucks badd.
I will go to blizzcon next year, and if the pop is the same, you can bet on me that i will start dishing out the flawedness of the system pretty harshly lol
1) Cannot download and host a map without republishing.
This is fucking huge. I understand that not wanting 1,000,000 versions of the same map, but there was no intelligent design to support this idea.
Fixing this would be pretty simple, RSS feeds into a battle.net map directory.
If you are familiar with how you can *like* something in facebook from basically anywhere on the web, same idea.
You visit sc2mapster.com's map browser that has discussion/feedback on map, links to youtube previews, and link's to battle.net's RSS based map directory. From there, instead of downloading, you can click an "add to favorites" button.
When you log into SC2 and create a custom map, you'll find that map under a "my favorites" section next to "my published".
Itt this combines the best of both worlds.
As far as popularity is concerned, it should be just one of many sortable columns, but first it needs to have it logical flaws fixed.
What should popularity mean? If 1 player plays the fuck out of a map all day long, is it a popular map? No. I would consider popular to mean that a lot of unique battle.net account id's play that map within the last 24 hours, not caring how many times the map creator's buddies have boosted it all day.
Secondly I'd like to filter by many other things including lobby not empty, lobby not full, average wait time in game lobby. Functional category filters. A search field. Popularity should only be nothing more than another sortable column, not the gate keeper to custom maps.
Chat channels and the ability to create a closed lobby, giving the opportunity to prepare a lobby before opening to the public. Options to setting up a lobby should include reserving slots for invitations. etc etc, bnet COULD be great.
Man, I hate when people pull the entitled card. You know what? I -AM- fucking entitled. If I pay 60 bucks for a game, I am ENTITLED to be able to enjoy it and play it as I see fit. It's not blizzard's place to babysit us all, telling us what's inappropriate and keeping us from doing what we want. What made SC and WC3 good was the freedom they gave, SC2 takes all that freedom away, freedom I am ENTITLED to. If they wanted to make the publishing system and popularity system optional, then by all means, implement bullshit restrictions to maintain control. But you can't force me to use these systems AND force your restrictions on me, it's horse shit to the highest degree.
Also, I didn't buy the game because of this shit, if they got their heads out of their collective asses and fixed this shit, I'd buy the game in a heart beat.
Given that you haven't bought the game, your not entitled to anything. This isn't a dig at not buying the game, god knows I've done it in the past, and still do, and will probably do so in the future. But holy shit, you got no right to complain about something you haven't paid for. You get something free, enjoy what ya got, it might be the last time.
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This is exactly what I want. I agree wholeheartedly and have voiced this opinion in the past. Keep both systems. Best of both worlds. But as you have said, Blizzard is stubborn and this is why we need to do something like your 5 min map boosting. Maybe you can make a separate topic for this so we can have a place to rally map makers to this idea?
You do realize that you keep making the suggestion of making the Popularity system optional, guess what, that's a suggestion on how to improve the system without removing it. If you stop being so negative for 5 seconds, you might actually realize that you can have a system that works and includes some sort of popularity system (which might even involved making the popularity system optional).
Have you ever stopped to think about other services that use popularity systems? Notice how they let you sort by popularity, or sort by name, or sort by ... whatever. Guess what happens when you stop sorting by popularity - you effectively turn it off.
So like I have already said, it's not necessarily the popularity system that is the problem, in fact I think they almost had the right idea, it's the lack of supporting features that is the problem. There is no way to search for a map, there is no way to sort the list.
Think about it, even without a popularity system, you might have 1,000 custom games running. You upload your new map and create a game, how is someone going to find your game and join it? They still have to find it amongst the thousand other games.
If they took the existing system, allowed you to search, added game categories, allowed you to sorty by name/author/players/popularity and changed the method of calculating popularity, you would have a much better system that makes it easier to find games, but still has the popularity system, which is a good way for new players to jump right in and play a popular map.
I'm not saying the old system was bad or anything, but I think there is a middle ground that could result in a better system.
go look at warcraft 3, they had it right.
@KratsAU
He effectively agrees with you. Both of you say that there can be some kind of middle ground so I think you can leave it at that. You even mentioned how he just said that there could be a middle ground so your first paragraph criticizing him wasn't really necessary.
What you disagree on isn't how the system can be improved, but rather how we can get Blizzard to improve it. You say that by simply asking some more, Blizzard will fix the system while he states that we need to do something else to show Blizzard we're serious about our dislike of the system in its current state.
Who was guts to boost a map called "POPULARY SYSTEM SUCKS" ??
Krat, for the love of god, stop exaggerating to make your point. "Thousands of games", seriously dude? Neither SC nor WC3 had "thousands of games", they didn't even have hundreds. There were like, 50-60 lobbies at any given time, and if it was a good map it'd be full and started in 5 mins. Honestly, the way you talk makes me think you never played WC3.
Also, making is optional isn't a way of fixing the popularity, and you taking it as such is soooo grasping for straws. Fixing implies.. well.. fixing. Making it optional doesn't fix it, it just means we don't have to use it. Making it optional accomplishes the same as outright removing it, only the 1% who actually like it can still use it. It'll still be a broken system where only boosted maps can be on the top, it'll just be an optional broken system.
I'm sorry man, but you need to get it through your head that the popularity system will -NEVER- work. Things with popularity systems are things like netflix. I'm not looking for a movie to take home and watch, nor a game to take home and play. I'm looking for a game to play with other people. Name me -ONE- online game where the only way of finding other players was some stupid popularity system. The system may work for shopping, but not for gaming. The hosting method worked because you'd browse through the ever-updating list, seeing what people were playing, not what was played most, what people were playing at that very fucking second. And you'd join what you wanted. If nothing appealed to you, you'd go and host a map that did.
WC3 was the pinnacle of perfection, what few problems it had could simply be fixed. You can try to defend the broken popularity system until you're blue in the face, but you'll never find a solution to fix it, because you CAN'T fix it. Only way to fix it, is to get rid of it, either by making it optional or outright getting rid of it. And that's what we need to push for, we need to organize all those who hate this abomination, and force blizzard to change back to a system that's worked for over a decade.
somebody make a stupid map which makes to the top 10 and when its there, change its name or content...
I suggest It should be stupid 1 player td with 5 minute content.
-Points to the thread he just made-, we should ALL do that. The first two pages being nothing beyond shitty maps that all express how we want the old hosting system back. Organized protests :(
Don't be sorry, you are just wrong. Of course it can work.
Sounds like a fun way to get your account banned.
It can't, and wont work. You're naive if you think a system that TELLS people what is and isn't popular will work. The popularity system in SC and WC3 worked because the players decided what was popular, on SC2 the system itself decides what's popular, it CAN'T be fixed, get your head out of your ass and you'd realize this. Besides you have yet to put forth a single idea that'd fix the system, and considering how much you claim it can be fixed, that's a little self-defeating.
Besides, they can't ban accounts for my idea. They never said your maps had to meet a minimum content quota, the maps wont be violating any of the rules they've put forth. What could they ban us for?
You're naive for thinking it can't work, and you are contradicting yourself. First you are saying a popularity system can't work, then you say the Wc3 system worked because the people decided what is popular. This means a popularity system can work, you just need to change the way the popularity is calculated.
They can do whatever they want, and I would hope they would ban people that intentionally try and mess up the system. It's their game, they can make it work how they like, you can either work within their system or go elsewhere.
I never said -A- popularity system can't work, I said -THIS- popularity system can't work. WC3 and SC relied on a popularity system that was neither monitored, nor automated, nor controlled. It was simply, popular maps get hosted and played a lot, non-popular maps didn't. It works because it was in the hands of the players. THIS, specific system doesn't work because it's automated. The players aren't deciding what's popular, they're being told what's popular. THIS system can not, and never will work, if you want a popularity system that works, that'd be WC3.
Well you said it can't be fixed. Since when can't fixing it involve changing the way the popularity system works? THIS system can work, even if it means changing how it works.
I can tell you now, blizzard, or any developer for that matter, is much more likely to work with ideas that build on/improve their current system, than ditch everything they have because people are bitching away and giving them shit about it.
If you can't see that, then we just have to disagree, and leave it at that.
And now for something constructive.
Perhaps keep the pop system for hosting. And have a list displaying hosted maps for joining. Thus, even if you host a map that isn't popular, people can still see it easily, and can join easily.
There should many ways to list the maps (by host joined time, upload date, player amounts...) , but popularity system shouldnt be default in any case. Sadly now the only way to list the maps according this crap system. Probably they could change this crap system under 1 day, but they wont because they are hard headed, I hope when their maps will fail on this system, than they will realize that its crap and will sorry for us...
Im sorry but bitching about the pop system here on SC2Mapster is not going to accomplish anything other then get people riled up. Blizzard already has acknowledged that they need to make changes to it.... what more then you want..
Colt please quit complaining you didnt even buy the game..... also... how are they fucking anybody in the ass with the pop system..... wait dont answer that because obviously you think your intitled to everything you want... well son you are wrong... you get what they give you and you need to make the best of it....
Its honestly Not that complicated to get your map up on the list. Ive done it several times with my own maps. and I have had several friends that got thier maps up on to the 2nd and 3rd pages and thier maps are still on the 2nd and 3rd pages.... we all can have our maps on the first page oh well...
Why are you guys talking about making suggestions about the pop system here on SC2mapster..... they arnt gonna use anything you write in this topic....
Also colt.... since you dont even log on bnet WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU BITCHING.... PLZ STFU
Man, I hate when people pull the entitled card. You know what? I -AM- fucking entitled. If I pay 60 bucks for a game, I am ENTITLED to be able to enjoy it and play it as I see fit. It's not blizzard's place to babysit us all, telling us what's inappropriate and keeping us from doing what we want. What made SC and WC3 good was the freedom they gave, SC2 takes all that freedom away, freedom I am ENTITLED to. If they wanted to make the publishing system and popularity system optional, then by all means, implement bullshit restrictions to maintain control. But you can't force me to use these systems AND force your restrictions on me, it's horse shit to the highest degree.
Also, I didn't buy the game because of this shit, if they got their heads out of their collective asses and fixed this shit, I'd buy the game in a heart beat.
im going to start botting my map and i dont care about morality anymore, So many map botters out there. , my map is 12 players , and lasts for 30-45 minutes. I am dropping spots at times especially at nightimes cause of the way blizzard gauges 12 player maps is completely flawed. As a friend said to me, if a system sucks, abuse it. Either that or you can kiss your projects goodbye cause no-one will ever join the game ,.
im sure if i make some 3 player bunker defense 7 min game thats totally ridiculously hectic can blow the charts in popularity. This system sucks badd.
I will go to blizzcon next year, and if the pop is the same, you can bet on me that i will start dishing out the flawedness of the system pretty harshly lol
Not just popularity thats fubar.
1) Cannot download and host a map without republishing. This is fucking huge. I understand that not wanting 1,000,000 versions of the same map, but there was no intelligent design to support this idea. Fixing this would be pretty simple, RSS feeds into a battle.net map directory. If you are familiar with how you can *like* something in facebook from basically anywhere on the web, same idea. You visit sc2mapster.com's map browser that has discussion/feedback on map, links to youtube previews, and link's to battle.net's RSS based map directory. From there, instead of downloading, you can click an "add to favorites" button. When you log into SC2 and create a custom map, you'll find that map under a "my favorites" section next to "my published". Itt this combines the best of both worlds.
As far as popularity is concerned, it should be just one of many sortable columns, but first it needs to have it logical flaws fixed. What should popularity mean? If 1 player plays the fuck out of a map all day long, is it a popular map? No. I would consider popular to mean that a lot of unique battle.net account id's play that map within the last 24 hours, not caring how many times the map creator's buddies have boosted it all day.
Secondly I'd like to filter by many other things including lobby not empty, lobby not full, average wait time in game lobby. Functional category filters. A search field. Popularity should only be nothing more than another sortable column, not the gate keeper to custom maps.
Chat channels and the ability to create a closed lobby, giving the opportunity to prepare a lobby before opening to the public. Options to setting up a lobby should include reserving slots for invitations. etc etc, bnet COULD be great.
Given that you haven't bought the game, your not entitled to anything. This isn't a dig at not buying the game, god knows I've done it in the past, and still do, and will probably do so in the future. But holy shit, you got no right to complain about something you haven't paid for. You get something free, enjoy what ya got, it might be the last time.