Front page of popularity system is flooded with low-quality, rushed out, unimaginative crap.
Some maps don't even work, they're in beta still.
I was continuing my project despite a horrible popularity system ONLY because they said that it would improve in the future, that they'd fix battle.net custom games lobby.
At this years Blizzcon 2010, it appeared as thought they did not see a problem with the popularity system. One response was essentially "L2advertise".
It now appears that we should look forward to embracing the pop system as it is right now. Make maps that last exactly 5 minutes long and only allow 2 players, as those have the greatest chance of staying popular after achieving popularity, but first you have to become popular by botting.
I now know that the project I was working on has zero chance of ever being appreciated. That project is canceled and deleted.
Now I'm considering just moving on and going to design dungeons for torchlight 2 perhaps, or making a map project that is a play on the popularity system.
I'd probably call it [Popularity Wars], and it would revolve around making a map.
Dynamics would include familiarity, visibility, *boosting*, and quality.
The idea would be to point out how quality without visibility is worthless.
The map would ironically be a 2 player game and last exactly 5 minutes. Maybe even add some loyalty to the map with some kind of persisting RPG elements.
Then maybe we all boost the map in objection to the system lol.
Idk, probably just stop sc2 dev altogether. The devs are out of touch because they get to cheat and feature their own maps. I'm disgusted.
Feeling the sameway. I havent done too much mapping recently, since there hasnt been any signs of blizzard improving the system.
Maybe just wait out and see if they want to fix it? But atleast I wont use too much of my time on map making (maybe just make some minimaps or something).
I think we've all been down about this map crap, but seriously you just gotta tough it out. Only thing standing between you and the front page is making an awesome map.
No you have to bot. I've seen a few awesome maps deep down, like 10+ pages deep.
Though I challenge you all to play that fking lame sentry scramble game. Its got more bots botting it than the rest of SC2 combined. If you start a stop watch, at exactly 5 minutes into the game, the bots will leave. Its F'ing hillarious.
It's this crap that kept me from buying the game to begin with. Blizzard simply doesn't care about custom content anymore. It's kinda ironic really, they give us a fantastic map editor and then make any desire to use it go down the drain. "You can make anything you want, aslong as we ultimately control it, and nobody will ever play it". I'm still working on my map though, but only because I enjoy making it, as I said I don't even own the game so it's popularity doesn't matter much to me, the fun is in the creation process.
How are you using the editor without the game? I thought you could only get the editor with the game and only use the editor by signing into battle.net with an account that has SC2 registered to it.
I'm slowly working on a map. Not putting much effort into it since the popularity discourages anyone making maps. I'm not sure what I'm going to do when I finish it. I could put it up but it would stay in the lower depths of the custom game list forever.
Not even the most popular map can climb the popularity list. Boosting isn't wrong. Everyone does that, even Blizzard with their "featured" system, which is a way to boost.
Boosting is gaming the stupid system. Sentry scramble isn't a great map. Its boosted better than anything else. It lasts 300 seconds till somebody legitly wins it. The funny thing is at exactly 5 minutes several people always leave the game. Every single game I've ever been in.
Boosting is bad in my eyes because its faking having a good map. Its putting more effort into getting your map popular than actually working on quality.
Thats not for me. If boosting is necessary well no wonder all the popular maps are shitty.
I completely agree but it seems the only way good maps will get recognized is if the good map makers boost their maps. Sad thing is most of them have morals and wouldn't do that.
Pretty much what op said... i have no interest in spending hours boosting my map just so i can try it with the number of people it's supposed to be played at.
My friend and i had just finished working on our dungeon style map, we wanted to test it a little just for balance purposes, we've already ironed out all the bugs and stuff, we just want to see the difficulty of the encounters and their feasibility... but alas, we would need to spend about 2 hours boosting it just so we can get a total of 5 players (because you need to be 5 to do most encounters).
I was expecting some real answers in this blizzcon but was very disappointed... i can't believe they actually told that one guy to advertise his map on forums and stuff, and what pisses me ever more is that no one even confronted them about how crappy their popularity system is, like seriously? you just got told to advertise your map on random forums and you're just gona take that as an answer and walk away?
I'll wait for their so called "premium map" service to come out, if they don't bring some major changes by then i'll probably be done with modding SC2.
Its probably a good idea to abandon the project. Yeah, blizzard is destroying the map-making community, but guess what. Nobody cares. :) I'm serious, unless you are a map-maker you aren't affected. Judging by the number of games being played in custom game lobby, the regular people are very happy with nexus wars and the other tug games that had been here since release (and probably was there during beta).
Map-makers aren't important to the custom games. You may not like it, but the custom game section only needs about 4-5 maps and its good to go. Changing the popularity system might actually harm custom game players. If people are siphoned from the current popular games, it would take longer and longer for them to fill up. So if they fix popularity system, we'll have a hundred maps to choose from with each taking a while to fill up. If they keep the current system, maps will fill up in seconds but they only have 5 maps to choose from.
The biggest effect of the popularity system would be, if those tug game map-makers delete their maps. Then we'll see an uproar! .. and maybe a change to the popularity system.
How are you using the editor without the game? I thought you could only get the editor with the game and only use the editor by signing into battle.net with an account that has SC2 registered to it.
I'm slowly working on a map. Not putting much effort into it since the popularity discourages anyone making maps. I'm not sure what I'm going to do when I finish it. I could put it up but it would stay in the lower depths of the custom game list forever.
The internet is a vast and wonderous thing where you can find anything and everything, for free no less. I hate Bnet and the way Blizzard treats one of the major components of it's fanbase. But they DID make a good editor, so may as well utilize the thing they did right, while boycotting the thing they did wrong.
Edit: Sand, that's bullshit. Honestly dude. SC didn't have a popularity system, you could get a full game of 12 in less then a minute if you hosted a popular map. Same with WC3. Having hundreds of maps to choose from doesn't mean every single map would have 2-3 people. If they actually fixed the popularity system, so people could see which maps were actually being hosted, and had people, good maps would be played. It's worked for twelve fucking years, it'd work now too. Just Blizzard broke the fuck out of it.
The internet is a vast and wonderous thing where you can find anything and everything, for free no less. I hate Bnet and the way Blizzard treats one of the major components of it's fanbase. But they DID make a good editor, so may as well utilize the thing they did right, while boycotting the thing they did wrong.
Which is illegal and you should be banned for somewhat advocating piracy.
Its probably a good idea to abandon the project. Yeah, blizzard is destroying the map-making community, but guess what. Nobody cares. :) I'm serious, unless you are a map-maker you aren't affected. Judging by the number of games being played in custom game lobby, the regular people are very happy with nexus wars and the other tug games that had been here since release (and probably was there during beta).
Map-makers aren't important to the custom games. You may not like it, but the custom game section only needs about 4-5 maps and its good to go. Changing the popularity system might actually harm custom game players. If people are siphoned from the current popular games, it would take longer and longer for them to fill up. So if they fix popularity system, we'll have a hundred maps to choose from with each taking a while to fill up. If they keep the current system, maps will fill up in seconds but they only have 5 maps to choose from.
The biggest effect of the popularity system would be, if those tug game map-makers delete their maps. Then we'll see an uproar! .. and maybe a change to the popularity system.
I 100% agree.
The popularity system is awful and we all know that, but the playerbase isn't helping here.
If people keep clicking on *random crappy map here*, it just means they like to play it over and over to have some fun inbetween ladder matches (not that there's something wrong here) and ANY new sorting, be it based on "hours played/day", "players in lobbies" or ratings of any kind will ultimately lead to the current situation. If any of you missed the last blogpost about custom maps, Blizzard is basically suggesting that instead of whining we should make our maps fun by dumbing them down so that players can fully grasp them in the first minutes.
I agree with those saying that the fun should be in the creation process, and it was at least for me.
On the other hand, though, acknowledging that nobody will ever play them leads to deep frustration.
Whatever you decide to do, keep in mind that nothing is going to change in the next months.
Popularity system is a epic crap.
If you make a map that last exactly 5 minutes and than writes out that popularity system sucks, than I will publish it on eu.
I am still making my map, but I wont release it on this crap system. (its 14 player, very complex and long strategy game, so it has no chance in this stupid system.) If blizzard wont "fix" popularity than I hope somebody will make a server without popularity system...
The popularity system is awful and we all know that, but the playerbase isn't helping here.
If people keep clicking on *random crappy map here*, it just means they like to play it over and over to have some fun inbetween ladder matches (not that there's something wrong here) and ANY new sorting, be it based on "hours played/day", "players in lobbies" or ratings of any kind will ultimately lead to the current situation. If any of you missed the last blogpost about custom maps, Blizzard is basically suggesting that instead of whining we should make our maps fun by dumbing them down so that players can fully grasp them in the first minutes.
I agree with those saying that the fun should be in the creation process, and it was at least for me.
On the other hand, though, acknowledging that nobody will ever play them leads to deep frustration.
Whatever you decide to do, keep in mind that nothing is going to change in the next months.
lol yeah that'd be something like North Korea not knowing its a shitty country until they visit South Korea and then they're like, holy shit NK is shitty!
Yup, whiskee. No matter how much people complain, the regular player base is very happy with the popularity system. I disagree that blizzard say we should dumb them down. But the current system is made for a few maps to fill up fast. And that's what popularity system is good for. And regular players don't care for diversity, otherwise they would have just quit playing the same 5 maps that had been here since release.
In theory, one of the popular tug maps could get replaced, if another one that's better come along. But the current system forbid new maps from being made, so we won't see better maps being made.
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Front page of popularity system is flooded with low-quality, rushed out, unimaginative crap. Some maps don't even work, they're in beta still.
I was continuing my project despite a horrible popularity system ONLY because they said that it would improve in the future, that they'd fix battle.net custom games lobby. At this years Blizzcon 2010, it appeared as thought they did not see a problem with the popularity system. One response was essentially "L2advertise".
It now appears that we should look forward to embracing the pop system as it is right now. Make maps that last exactly 5 minutes long and only allow 2 players, as those have the greatest chance of staying popular after achieving popularity, but first you have to become popular by botting.
I now know that the project I was working on has zero chance of ever being appreciated. That project is canceled and deleted.
Now I'm considering just moving on and going to design dungeons for torchlight 2 perhaps, or making a map project that is a play on the popularity system. I'd probably call it [Popularity Wars], and it would revolve around making a map. Dynamics would include familiarity, visibility, *boosting*, and quality. The idea would be to point out how quality without visibility is worthless. The map would ironically be a 2 player game and last exactly 5 minutes. Maybe even add some loyalty to the map with some kind of persisting RPG elements. Then maybe we all boost the map in objection to the system lol.
Idk, probably just stop sc2 dev altogether. The devs are out of touch because they get to cheat and feature their own maps. I'm disgusted.
Feeling the sameway. I havent done too much mapping recently, since there hasnt been any signs of blizzard improving the system.
Maybe just wait out and see if they want to fix it? But atleast I wont use too much of my time on map making (maybe just make some minimaps or something).
I think we've all been down about this map crap, but seriously you just gotta tough it out. Only thing standing between you and the front page is making an awesome map.
@crazyfingers619: Go
No you have to bot. I've seen a few awesome maps deep down, like 10+ pages deep. Though I challenge you all to play that fking lame sentry scramble game. Its got more bots botting it than the rest of SC2 combined. If you start a stop watch, at exactly 5 minutes into the game, the bots will leave. Its F'ing hillarious.
Heheh...
I threw in the towel myself, but but of luck to anyone still plugging away and fighting the system.
It's this crap that kept me from buying the game to begin with. Blizzard simply doesn't care about custom content anymore. It's kinda ironic really, they give us a fantastic map editor and then make any desire to use it go down the drain. "You can make anything you want, aslong as we ultimately control it, and nobody will ever play it". I'm still working on my map though, but only because I enjoy making it, as I said I don't even own the game so it's popularity doesn't matter much to me, the fun is in the creation process.
@Colt556: Go
How are you using the editor without the game? I thought you could only get the editor with the game and only use the editor by signing into battle.net with an account that has SC2 registered to it.
I'm slowly working on a map. Not putting much effort into it since the popularity discourages anyone making maps. I'm not sure what I'm going to do when I finish it. I could put it up but it would stay in the lower depths of the custom game list forever.
Not even the most popular map can climb the popularity list. Boosting isn't wrong. Everyone does that, even Blizzard with their "featured" system, which is a way to boost.
@RodrigoAlves: Go
Boosting is gaming the stupid system. Sentry scramble isn't a great map. Its boosted better than anything else. It lasts 300 seconds till somebody legitly wins it. The funny thing is at exactly 5 minutes several people always leave the game. Every single game I've ever been in.
Boosting is bad in my eyes because its faking having a good map. Its putting more effort into getting your map popular than actually working on quality. Thats not for me. If boosting is necessary well no wonder all the popular maps are shitty.
@Hokibukisa: Go
I completely agree but it seems the only way good maps will get recognized is if the good map makers boost their maps. Sad thing is most of them have morals and wouldn't do that.
@Hokibukisa: Go
If you were making your map for the fun of it this shouldnt be an issue.
@Hokibukisa: Go
Pretty much what op said... i have no interest in spending hours boosting my map just so i can try it with the number of people it's supposed to be played at.
My friend and i had just finished working on our dungeon style map, we wanted to test it a little just for balance purposes, we've already ironed out all the bugs and stuff, we just want to see the difficulty of the encounters and their feasibility... but alas, we would need to spend about 2 hours boosting it just so we can get a total of 5 players (because you need to be 5 to do most encounters).
I was expecting some real answers in this blizzcon but was very disappointed... i can't believe they actually told that one guy to advertise his map on forums and stuff, and what pisses me ever more is that no one even confronted them about how crappy their popularity system is, like seriously? you just got told to advertise your map on random forums and you're just gona take that as an answer and walk away?
I'll wait for their so called "premium map" service to come out, if they don't bring some major changes by then i'll probably be done with modding SC2.
@Hokibukisa: Go
Its probably a good idea to abandon the project. Yeah, blizzard is destroying the map-making community, but guess what. Nobody cares. :) I'm serious, unless you are a map-maker you aren't affected. Judging by the number of games being played in custom game lobby, the regular people are very happy with nexus wars and the other tug games that had been here since release (and probably was there during beta).
Map-makers aren't important to the custom games. You may not like it, but the custom game section only needs about 4-5 maps and its good to go. Changing the popularity system might actually harm custom game players. If people are siphoned from the current popular games, it would take longer and longer for them to fill up. So if they fix popularity system, we'll have a hundred maps to choose from with each taking a while to fill up. If they keep the current system, maps will fill up in seconds but they only have 5 maps to choose from.
The biggest effect of the popularity system would be, if those tug game map-makers delete their maps. Then we'll see an uproar! .. and maybe a change to the popularity system.
The internet is a vast and wonderous thing where you can find anything and everything, for free no less. I hate Bnet and the way Blizzard treats one of the major components of it's fanbase. But they DID make a good editor, so may as well utilize the thing they did right, while boycotting the thing they did wrong.
Edit: Sand, that's bullshit. Honestly dude. SC didn't have a popularity system, you could get a full game of 12 in less then a minute if you hosted a popular map. Same with WC3. Having hundreds of maps to choose from doesn't mean every single map would have 2-3 people. If they actually fixed the popularity system, so people could see which maps were actually being hosted, and had people, good maps would be played. It's worked for twelve fucking years, it'd work now too. Just Blizzard broke the fuck out of it.
Which is illegal and you should be banned for somewhat advocating piracy.
I 100% agree.
The popularity system is awful and we all know that, but the playerbase isn't helping here.
If people keep clicking on *random crappy map here*, it just means they like to play it over and over to have some fun inbetween ladder matches (not that there's something wrong here) and ANY new sorting, be it based on "hours played/day", "players in lobbies" or ratings of any kind will ultimately lead to the current situation. If any of you missed the last blogpost about custom maps, Blizzard is basically suggesting that instead of whining we should make our maps fun by dumbing them down so that players can fully grasp them in the first minutes.
I agree with those saying that the fun should be in the creation process, and it was at least for me.
On the other hand, though, acknowledging that nobody will ever play them leads to deep frustration.
Whatever you decide to do, keep in mind that nothing is going to change in the next months.
It's not illegal and advocating piracy isn't against the rules.
P.S. I in no way advocated piracy :)
Popularity system is a epic crap.
If you make a map that last exactly 5 minutes and than writes out that popularity system sucks, than I will publish it on eu.
I am still making my map, but I wont release it on this crap system. (its 14 player, very complex and long strategy game, so it has no chance in this stupid system.) If blizzard wont "fix" popularity than I hope somebody will make a server without popularity system...
lol yeah that'd be something like North Korea not knowing its a shitty country until they visit South Korea and then they're like, holy shit NK is shitty!
@WhiskeeGX: Go
Yup, whiskee. No matter how much people complain, the regular player base is very happy with the popularity system. I disagree that blizzard say we should dumb them down. But the current system is made for a few maps to fill up fast. And that's what popularity system is good for. And regular players don't care for diversity, otherwise they would have just quit playing the same 5 maps that had been here since release.
In theory, one of the popular tug maps could get replaced, if another one that's better come along. But the current system forbid new maps from being made, so we won't see better maps being made.