Hello!
At my school we recently got informed that we’re going to make a big project about something related to the current subjects and we’re going to spend 100+ hours on this project to then present it to about 150people. And I figured that I could try to make a big project in the Starcraft 2 engine/map editor, something like the Blizzard version of Starjeweled on the arcade. My current experience in programming and moding is very bad. I know some Java, but nothing useful really and the only moding I’ve done before is a map in Starcraft 2 were I had some triggers and changed some features on the units. But I’m very open to learning stuff as long as it’s not too all to difficult.
So my question to any of you map editors out there is if I require any programming skills to make this? Is it something that I can get into relatively quickly or am I aiming to high?
TLDR; We’re going to do a big projects in school and I’m thinking about making something in the Starcraft 2 editor, but I don’t got much experience. Is it something that I can pull off?
Excuse me for terrible english.
Edit 1: If someone know a good guide on top of your head about getting into Starcraft 2 modding a link would be very appreciated :)
Programming skill are helpful but not required when making maps in sc2. More important is experience with the editor itself and some knowledge on how to do certain thing or work around them. That being said, I don't think 100 hours is nearly enough to archieve something worthwhile to present.
If you have some idea about a game you want to make, it would be easier to comment on this. But if you don't, I don't think this is a good idea.
Programming skill are helpful but not required when making maps in sc2. More important is experience with the editor itself and some knowledge on how to do certain thing or work around them. That being said, I don't think 100 hours is nearly enough to archieve something worthwhile to present.
If you have some idea about a game you want to make, it would be easier to comment on this. But if you don't, I don't think this is a good idea.
I would say being able to understand programming concepts helps development of SC2 maps, and vice versa... Experience making SC2 maps should theoretically make you understand programming concepts.
Same here to some extent. Only i origonally got an interest in programming from WC3, so i took a course in high school in programming. I went to a competitive college prep school, the course was ridiculously hard with only 3 people being able to do well. These kids were really smart got nearly perfect scores on SATs, went to Duke, stuff like that. That experience turned me off to it and i majored in sometehing else initially where 1 programming course was required. I took that course and loved it and got back into programming and later switched to CS. Your initial experiences with programming have a big impact on whether you like it and pursue it, and experiences can vary widely.
I would personally put programming ability/experience over experience with the editor. Its alot easier and takes a lot less time to learn enough about the editor than it does to become a good enough programmer that you can do just about anything you would want to do in the editor. Especially now, back in WC3 maps were open for the most part and you could learn by looking at their code, now most maps are locked so its harder to learn that way.
And ya i wouldnt pursue this as a project, it can be hard to tell how long things will take and if you couldnt get it working on time that wouldnt be good.
I'm new to modding as well. I got one pretty awesome/terrible map made for my campaign. Awesome cause I made it, terrible cause I made it!! :) Trying to make a map like StarJewl is very complicated. If you can crank it out, then awesome, but maybe scaling back is your best bet with your limited programming background. I had zero skills coming into this modding community (mods and programming) and after 5 months was only able to produce one map. I am working on my 2nd map and it is going a lot smoother and is way less tedious/fraught with errors.
Anyways...advice.
Keep it Simple!!
# # Look at other people's maps from this site and study them
# # Use the WIki on this site - I found it really helpful.
Glhf!!
PS People here are very helpful!! Just post clear and concise issues with code snippets.
Why don't you learn a real programming language and program some easy game. That way you learn way more about programming and have access to a better documentation. Also, as a teacher I would find it very difficult to properly evaluate a sc2 map, as you cannot really see what is already in the game and what is your own work...
I don't want to keep you from getting into sc2 mapping though, absolutely do! It's so much fun and you will learn a lot. I just don't know if it's the right thing for school.
That being said, I don't think 100 hours is nearly enough to archieve something worthwhile to present.
Just wanted to comment on this: I disagree completely. While a really good project can easily take up to multiple hundreds of hours (preferably split between team members) to make it to release, I'm pretty sure you can make a relatively simple TD or DOTA-style map within even a couple of hours if you know the trigger and data editors. If you know absolutely nothing about the Galaxy Editor and take 20 hours to get somewhat familiar with it, you've still got easily eight times the time you need to roll out something half-decent.
I mean... don't expect to be making something as huge and encompassing as Starmon or Crush Company, but something like Nexus Wars, Marine Arena, or maybe even a rudimentary version of Mafia? Sure. In fact, I have a hard time finding maps on the Arcade that couldn't be re-made decently well within 100 hours. What takes time is balance, terraining, and 'assets' (whether they be separate units in the data editor or entirely new models) - setting up the actual systems really only takes as long as you want it to take. Another case in point: this map took me roughly 70 hours to create, and at least 40 of those were spent on terrain.
Obviously I don't know what your teachers are expecting, but I can definitely ensure you that I for one could have something presentable if you gave me 100 hours.
It's nice that YOU can do it and all, but you are not him/her so what's the point of putting yourself in his/her position. You are an accomplished map maker, he/she has done one (!) map with "some triggers and some unit data". I, at least, wasn't somewhat familiar with the editor after 20 hours, but maybe I'm just slow on the uptake...
My whole point wasn't that I'm brilliant, but rather that I'm really not a mapmaking expert and yet can still do it. I won't say that I'm useless when it comes to the editor, but I possess very few core skills required for making an original map. I can't data edit for shit, I don't know code, I'm a very inexperienced triggerer and have rather focused all my mapping attention ever on the artistic detail in terraining (which is relatively useless when trying to make a showcase project).
I'm not saying you will know all there is to know in 20 hours, but a basic understanding of the data editor and triggering, as someone who has some coding experience and has used the editor before? Seems feasible to me.
Edit: Perhaps a good indication; the map I linked in my previous post, The Turning, was the first real SC2 project I ever did.
I would say that learning the sc2 editor is quite the task. Before I started mapping I knew java, vb, and a bit of similar languages. Also knew wc3 mapping quite well. I'd say triggering is easy to pickup even with limited programming knowledge, but the data editor is a task on its own that can take awhile to understand. Unless someone explains the architecture of it, learning it can be difficult even in 100 hours.
I think someone new to the editor could make something decent with it under 100+ hours, although that depends on what you're aiming to make and how big (or small) you want it to be.
You can learn the basics in 20 to 30 hours or so, and probably spend most of that time in data (considering terrain and triggers are easier to pick up on, in my opinion).
Also, as a teacher I would find it very difficult to properly evaluate a sc2 map, as you cannot really see what is already in the game and what is your own work...
I don't want to keep you from getting into sc2 mapping though, absolutely do! It's so much fun and you will learn a lot. I just don't know if it's the right thing for school.
I think this is pretty much what it comes down to. Yes, you can start from scratch and make a decent map in a hundred hours, but if someone who has never used the editor is to evaluate your work, there is no way to tell if you actually created any content at all. So, as a hobby I would very much recommend getting into the editor (it's tons of fun!), but for a school project, I think you would be better off creating a simple stand-alone game of some sort.
'Good' is a fickle word, but I've been talking about something 'presentable' all this time. To reiterate: I cannot know what the OP's teachers are looking for, but if you honestly think you need more than 100 hours to create something 'presentable' in really, virtually any profession, your definitions are skewed.
Has everybody forgotten about this or something? Back when that happened I was in the front row of disappointed people, but that doesn't change the fact that all three of those maps can likely be made within 100 hours and are all at least presentable enough to be entered into a contest.
Hello! At my school we recently got informed that we’re going to make a big project about something related to the current subjects and we’re going to spend 100+ hours on this project to then present it to about 150people. And I figured that I could try to make a big project in the Starcraft 2 engine/map editor, something like the Blizzard version of Starjeweled on the arcade. My current experience in programming and moding is very bad. I know some Java, but nothing useful really and the only moding I’ve done before is a map in Starcraft 2 were I had some triggers and changed some features on the units. But I’m very open to learning stuff as long as it’s not too all to difficult.
So my question to any of you map editors out there is if I require any programming skills to make this? Is it something that I can get into relatively quickly or am I aiming to high?
TLDR; We’re going to do a big projects in school and I’m thinking about making something in the Starcraft 2 editor, but I don’t got much experience. Is it something that I can pull off?
Excuse me for terrible english.
Edit 1: If someone know a good guide on top of your head about getting into Starcraft 2 modding a link would be very appreciated :)
Thanks!
Programming skill are helpful but not required when making maps in sc2. More important is experience with the editor itself and some knowledge on how to do certain thing or work around them. That being said, I don't think 100 hours is nearly enough to archieve something worthwhile to present.
If you have some idea about a game you want to make, it would be easier to comment on this. But if you don't, I don't think this is a good idea.
I would say being able to understand programming concepts helps development of SC2 maps, and vice versa... Experience making SC2 maps should theoretically make you understand programming concepts.
@Sixen: Go
Warcrap 3 was responsible for my interest in programming leading to a degree in CS. So yes, this is truefax.
OP, you will have a lot to learn and you will struggle. But you may have a new found appreciation of the art.
@Elmaex: Go
Ah okay, I might try some and if I dont understand anything I'll just do something else.
Thanks for the help
@Sixen: Go
Oh, then making one must be good for learning. We'll see if I try some and if it dosent work I just go do something easier ;)
Thanks!
@LosTacos: Go
Ye, it seems like alot of fun and I can always work extra on my freetime.
Thanks :)
@LosTacos: Go
Same here to some extent. Only i origonally got an interest in programming from WC3, so i took a course in high school in programming. I went to a competitive college prep school, the course was ridiculously hard with only 3 people being able to do well. These kids were really smart got nearly perfect scores on SATs, went to Duke, stuff like that. That experience turned me off to it and i majored in sometehing else initially where 1 programming course was required. I took that course and loved it and got back into programming and later switched to CS. Your initial experiences with programming have a big impact on whether you like it and pursue it, and experiences can vary widely.
I would personally put programming ability/experience over experience with the editor. Its alot easier and takes a lot less time to learn enough about the editor than it does to become a good enough programmer that you can do just about anything you would want to do in the editor. Especially now, back in WC3 maps were open for the most part and you could learn by looking at their code, now most maps are locked so its harder to learn that way.
And ya i wouldnt pursue this as a project, it can be hard to tell how long things will take and if you couldnt get it working on time that wouldnt be good.
@lemmy734: Go
Hmm, alright. Thanks!
I'm new to modding as well. I got one pretty awesome/terrible map made for my campaign. Awesome cause I made it, terrible cause I made it!! :) Trying to make a map like StarJewl is very complicated. If you can crank it out, then awesome, but maybe scaling back is your best bet with your limited programming background. I had zero skills coming into this modding community (mods and programming) and after 5 months was only able to produce one map. I am working on my 2nd map and it is going a lot smoother and is way less tedious/fraught with errors.
Anyways...advice.
Glhf!!
PS People here are very helpful!! Just post clear and concise issues with code snippets.
Why don't you learn a real programming language and program some easy game. That way you learn way more about programming and have access to a better documentation. Also, as a teacher I would find it very difficult to properly evaluate a sc2 map, as you cannot really see what is already in the game and what is your own work...
I don't want to keep you from getting into sc2 mapping though, absolutely do! It's so much fun and you will learn a lot. I just don't know if it's the right thing for school.
Just wanted to comment on this: I disagree completely. While a really good project can easily take up to multiple hundreds of hours (preferably split between team members) to make it to release, I'm pretty sure you can make a relatively simple TD or DOTA-style map within even a couple of hours if you know the trigger and data editors. If you know absolutely nothing about the Galaxy Editor and take 20 hours to get somewhat familiar with it, you've still got easily eight times the time you need to roll out something half-decent.
I mean... don't expect to be making something as huge and encompassing as Starmon or Crush Company, but something like Nexus Wars, Marine Arena, or maybe even a rudimentary version of Mafia? Sure. In fact, I have a hard time finding maps on the Arcade that couldn't be re-made decently well within 100 hours. What takes time is balance, terraining, and 'assets' (whether they be separate units in the data editor or entirely new models) - setting up the actual systems really only takes as long as you want it to take. Another case in point: this map took me roughly 70 hours to create, and at least 40 of those were spent on terrain.
Obviously I don't know what your teachers are expecting, but I can definitely ensure you that I for one could have something presentable if you gave me 100 hours.
@Mozared: Go
It's nice that YOU can do it and all, but you are not him/her so what's the point of putting yourself in his/her position. You are an accomplished map maker, he/she has done one (!) map with "some triggers and some unit data". I, at least, wasn't somewhat familiar with the editor after 20 hours, but maybe I'm just slow on the uptake...
@Elmaex: Go
My whole point wasn't that I'm brilliant, but rather that I'm really not a mapmaking expert and yet can still do it. I won't say that I'm useless when it comes to the editor, but I possess very few core skills required for making an original map. I can't data edit for shit, I don't know code, I'm a very inexperienced triggerer and have rather focused all my mapping attention ever on the artistic detail in terraining (which is relatively useless when trying to make a showcase project).
I'm not saying you will know all there is to know in 20 hours, but a basic understanding of the data editor and triggering, as someone who has some coding experience and has used the editor before? Seems feasible to me.
Edit: Perhaps a good indication; the map I linked in my previous post, The Turning, was the first real SC2 project I ever did.
@Mozared: Go
I would say that learning the sc2 editor is quite the task. Before I started mapping I knew java, vb, and a bit of similar languages. Also knew wc3 mapping quite well. I'd say triggering is easy to pickup even with limited programming knowledge, but the data editor is a task on its own that can take awhile to understand. Unless someone explains the architecture of it, learning it can be difficult even in 100 hours.
I think someone new to the editor could make something decent with it under 100+ hours, although that depends on what you're aiming to make and how big (or small) you want it to be.
You can learn the basics in 20 to 30 hours or so, and probably spend most of that time in data (considering terrain and triggers are easier to pick up on, in my opinion).
I think this is pretty much what it comes down to. Yes, you can start from scratch and make a decent map in a hundred hours, but if someone who has never used the editor is to evaluate your work, there is no way to tell if you actually created any content at all. So, as a hobby I would very much recommend getting into the editor (it's tons of fun!), but for a school project, I think you would be better off creating a simple stand-alone game of some sort.
I'd like to throw my weight behind the "you can't make anything good (that is not a copy) within 100 hours" opinion.
@TyaStarcraft: Go
'Good' is a fickle word, but I've been talking about something 'presentable' all this time. To reiterate: I cannot know what the OP's teachers are looking for, but if you honestly think you need more than 100 hours to create something 'presentable' in really, virtually any profession, your definitions are skewed.
Has everybody forgotten about this or something? Back when that happened I was in the front row of disappointed people, but that doesn't change the fact that all three of those maps can likely be made within 100 hours and are all at least presentable enough to be entered into a contest.
@Hockleberry: Go
Cool and thanks ;)