I'm hoping it's a Dota that is drastically different from all the others. I don't want the same style game. I also think with Sixen just putting up pictures people will get bored and eventually lose interest, which is probably why the last thread got so off topic. We might want to discuss the terrain in the background to get some hints from it as well.
Just thought I'd transfer this over to this thread since it does have hints at what this TMA project is going to be.
Credits to DogmaiSEA
In Regards to Mephs
Mephs is a troll, as simple as that, on the same level as Rodrigo, and it goes without saying that by the end of this post both of them will hate me, which is a shame as I have respect for both of them as fellow map makers, but the shit they continually pull because they are so butthurt about their maps not being as popular as they think they should be, I am bloody tired of it now.
I am one of the lucky few to beta test Project TMA with a few others - including Sixen ...
Smashcraft is not the most polished map on Battle.net. It is good, I will give you that, but the a lot of Smashcraft is a mere copy of TMA (not everything - TMA is a lot more unique and has better gameplay), even though I know you have never seen TMA - I personally know TMA has been in the works for nearly a year, it even had screenshots posted of it in September last year under a different name. It is a huge project, and has been having refinements made to it since perhaps November last year? After the core gameplay was already decided upon?
I was there beta testing TMA when you released Smashcraft and the conclusion that was made is that it was merely a coinceidence that you had released a map with some very similar ideas, as everyone who had been beta testing it was trusted when they said they did not show you. You do not have the best map, it is not the most polished map, fuck - it doesn't even have good gameplay IMO. Yes you have had some sponsored tournies, but anyone with a few hundreds bucks can hold one. I do not like Smashcraft - I think it is one of the better polished maps on Starcraft at this moment - but it is no where near as polished as some unreleased maps - not just this Project TMA. There are many maps which have never been given a sneak peak to the public, that people have no idea exists, TMA was one of them up until whenever the images were posted.
I know we didn't beta test for about 2-3 weeks because of Patch 1.3 "breaking" Project TMA. It took a bloody long time to fix ... and I actually feel really bad about this, because it was told that it was going into Open Beta on the 2nd of April, but due to the Patch it got postponed. If you notice carefully at the dates this would have been at the "peak" of the popularity of guessing what TMA was, and it sucks, it absolutely sucks out the balls, that the Patch broke the map, and we had to wait and wait for it to get fixed. It was something beyond everyone's control, TMA was not the only map to be broken, there are tonnes of them that have all had to get fixed.
Sixen is not behind this project, he never was, and I highly doubt he will ever be behind a huge Sc2 project simply because he doesn't have the time. How can he find the time to make a map when he is so busy running the community? Icefrog in Dota does not run the community, he is too busy with Dota, he has people to run the community for him.
Your map was featured on SEA, you should be happy instead of ditching the SEA server and crying afoul cause you didn't get your precious NA. Smashcraft was not that innovative - its only strong point was that it was released before TMA, if it was the other way around Smashcraft would have never stood a chance, it sucks mate but it has to be said. You are not the only person who can do voiceovers, nor are you the only person who can do custom UI and mechanics. I know from the screenshots posted 9 odd months ago that TMA was the first map to have custom UI (including custom Command Card panels) before Helral posted his tutorial about CCs and before we were given Sc2 Layout files to play with. Yes without a doubt it was Helral that discovered the panel trick, and he is the Godfather of Starcraft II UI - so I am not trying to take credit off him.
I presume you mean 'Pyro' by saying that they copied the hero from you. Mate ... srsly? wtf ... Pyro is the most common name ever for a fire character, stop being so butthurt. When you released Pyro they were like wtf ... you copied TMA, but then again, Pyro is such a common name (and none of the abilities are anywhere near yours) they were like ... let sleeping dogs lie.
Smashcraft will never reach the success of Dota, no Sc2 map will - because Sc2 is a closed platform, it is protected by the Battle.net login. You cannot play Sc2 on Garena, or any other custom server, therefore people have to buy Sc2 and trust me, especially within the chinese dota community, its all pirated Wc3 software. You - Mephs - without a doubt know the creators of TMA, and are friendly with them, just because they havn't opened their mouths and said hey, I am behind TMA, you attack their map? Seriously ... what are they meant to think about you?
Concerning TMA Beta Test
To everyone else all I can say is the map is coming, it sucks it is about 2-3 weeks behind because of Patch 1.3 but there was nothing anyone could do and no one saw it coming. It will be released when it is released - and I know that is coming soon and I feel really sorry that you guys have been fucked around, waiting to see what this project is without a word from the creators. It is one of those things that happen, I guess the more you try to plan things perfectly the more likely god is going to throw a spanner into the engine.
It is a bloody awesome project, hopefully you guys will be amazed - I know that they are looking for more beta testers atm, expanding the pool to see what new players who never played the game before think about it. So it might be prudent to show some interest and post in this thread "Hey I want to beta test" or something along those lines ...
As I said, I have permission to post everything I have ... relax guys. :)
Project TMA is an amalgamy of all the great PvP titles of our time, from Mortal Kombat, and Call of Duty, to DotA and WoW just to name a few. It is not a copy of any one game, instead takes inspiration from all the games we ever played and turns it into something completely new and unique. In Project TMA, numerous different game modes exist that do not only change the winning conditions, but drastically change the way the game is played. Kill enemies, defend key points or allies, secure valuable resources, or even hunt down a particular High Value Target all whilst collecting powerful items and powerups, to overcome your enemies in all Project TMA's explosive combat and bloody glory.
We are keeping a lot of things underwraps until the day of the release, which is coming quite soon - when all will be revealed. There are so many unique concepts that have not been seen before that we wish to surprise the Starcraft community with, and we wish for the Beta Testers to be completely in the dark - allowing us to test how easy/hard the game is to pick up from the standpoint of a new player that doesn't know anything about the game in particular. We will obviously post videos a week before release, and give everyone else a chance to understand our mechanics and how to play the selected game modes.
18 Unique Heroes
Each with their own set of highly interactive, and combinable abilities.
Numerous Unique Game Modes
Including but not limited to ...
Capture the Flag
Over 40 Unique Items
Over 18 Unique Powerups
Not just damage modifiers ...
Closed Beta Test
Over the next two weeks Project TMA will be accepting selected trustworthy Beta Testers to help balance the game. Whilst the game is quite balanced at this point, in a 1v1 Arena setting, the creators would like to see how the heroes handle in a multiplayer Arena setting.
Although the maps will be available on most servers once released *Including EU*, the beta test is limited to the NA (North American) server.
How to apply for the Beta Test
You can apply by expressing interest in this thread, and you will be contacted by a representive once chosen. Testing times will be around the following times ...
USA EST9pm - 12am / 7am-10am
AU EST11am-2pm / 9pm-12am.
We apologize for the delay in Closed Beta Status (It was due for release April 2nd); as it was one of the numerous maps that sustained unforeseeable damage by Patch 1.3.
Been told to post this ... so I'm just reposting some information that should have been posted along side the last set of images, Sixen must have forgotten :)
Darn Sixen is adding in game modes, curses. I was thinking of adding in different game modes to allow some variety for my map. I must say I wonder about the wording of interactive. Does that mean it could possibly destroy trees or other doodads placed around? Can only wonder. What thread is that from? Although I don't think I can be up at 7AM unless it's on the weekends, got school weekdays.
If it's not Sixen's map then why is he going so far to hype it up? Does it want it to fail due to the lack of following hype. Hype has to be like a snowball, gets better and better. The first 3 pictures were confusing and then we got the better part, the first picture I have up there. Then we got the characters. But now we need something more, a video imo.
I'm honestly expecting to be disappointed at this point. The amount of time put into it sounds more like the game's been re-written multiple times more than the features themselves taking this long to cough up. There's a fine line between doing too much in a single map and not doing enough. As far as sc2 maps go, the simpler, the better.
Trying to make a full-on product in a scripting tool is a dangerous idea, just because the sc2 map editor just isn't built for that. What these guys would want is a real game engine for a project of this scale. This is also a major reason game concepts like "Wired For Blood" never took off. It was just too much to cram into the tiny box that is galaxy.
Well you can stop wondering, because I am the Data Editor behind TMA, I was recruited onto the team by my mate (who still wishes to remain anonymous which is fine) around November, since then I have finished 18 Heroes, and completely redesigned, with my partners help, the gameplay mechanics from top to bottom, and added many cool features I think most of you are going to be really happy with, especially as far as gameplay and "fun-factor" are concerned. I am ready to start answering most questions you guys may have concerning TMA, obviously I will not answer literally any question but most I will be happy to.
To Mephs, I personally have only ever played 1 round of Smashcraft against Dogmai another friend of mine and I kicked his ass with Storm or Rush one of the two is his name, its the one with the jerk beam and stun, with the ulti that is like a starburst of some sort I cant remember it was a while ago. In that 1 round though i had a ton of fun you did a great job with it. I understand that we both used a Firebat and named it Pyro, I am really bummed about that but I am not changing his name sorry 8-). I haven’t ever seen your Pyro actually but I am certain ours will be nothing alike except in name. Some people are saying that our games are going to be competitors but I disagree for the most part, I mean obviously we are in some way or another as all custom games are, but I really think our two games are light years apart as far as mechanics, style, hero make-up etc... the only thing we do have in common is that each of us have more than one "Arena" to be played on, and we both have Heroic units killing each other. That isn't really saying much as far as similarities so I therefore my stance on us not really being competitors. Personally I will probably play a few more games of Smashcraft once I am not so busy with TMA, but as it is, it consumes literally all of my time.
p.s to the guy with a Reaper hero named Grim, I saw it on the front page a while back, sorry about that coincidence too it really ticked me off cuz if I have to change a heroes name I have to change a LOT of stuff and I just don’t have time so like Pyro it will stay 8(. Really though I don't think it will ever cause much of a problem.
To Keyes, I wrote that information that Dogmai posted, I thought it was going to be posted alongside the hero images on the front page but alas it was not O.o.
Every single heroes abilities interact and combine differently with their own abilities some are almost ineffectual without the strategic use of another ability previously so on and so forth. But by Interactive abilities what I mean is that many of the heroes abilities interact with other heroes abilities, I will give you one example. Wydow has an ability called Rotting Sludge, that applies a powerful debuff to a single target, which if they remain stationary does an inordinate amount of damage to them, but if the target moves they take no damage, and 5 seconds of movement will remove the debuff completely so it can often not do any damage at all to a relatively informed opponent. However some other heroes have abilities that either stun, or otherwise immobilize an enemy which can be combined with Rotting sludge to get a very large amount of damage out of it. So with the right allies around it can do devastating damage, but the nature of it works well if you are alone too as it causes your opponent to either A remain stationary and take tone of damage but still be able to attack you, or move around to stop the damage but at the same time not do damage to your hero. This is one of the more simple examples of how they can be interactive of course there are many more intricate interactions that can be made its all on the players.
I read somewhere else someone mentioned the big hero images look like they follow a warrior rogue mage setup which is partially true, its actually rock paper scissors in my head when I’m in the editor making cool stuffs, basically the icons are a visual aid to help the player recognize at a glance what he or she is up against. They stand for from left to right looking at the images above, Armored, Light, and Psionic, the way it breaks down at the molecular level is that Armored heroes do 20% additional damage to Light Heroes. Light heroes do 20% more damage to Psionic and Psionic do 20% more to Armored. This is intrinsic to the damage each type of hero deals. Additionally there are items available in game to specifically counter that weakness or even make it worse, so you can purchase a Titanium Hardener, which reduces the Light damage you take by 5%, effectively closing the gap between your Psionic hero and that Light hero thats spanking your monkey for you, but that same Light guy can do the same thing further decreasing the damage he or she takes from Psionic Heroes, so the entirety of the game is a power play for balance. Now even though it seems rather elementary the design of the abilities allow for a Light Hero for instance to be able to overcome an Armored hero despite their handicap towards them. It will all come down to how well you know your own hero, how well you know your opponents hero, your item choice, their item choice, the type of hero you chose vs the type of hero they chose and the list goes on, all of these factors help to balance the game, but also allow for the players to un-balance it. Accordingly the area for variance is large, and should create many a heated argument about who should have won what fight and such. I am very excited to see the game go into Beta and further tune and balance the heroes and their abilities before public release.
I am not as busy creating TMA as I have been for the past 6 months so any questions you guys have about the game I should be able to answer the same day most of the time, as I check SC2 Mapster all the time, and my friends help me too cuz sometimes I just plain forget. We had our UI broken to little bite size pieces by the patch so we haven’t been able to make any video's or take screen shots, but I can promise you all they are coming as soon as we are able, the UI should be done now in a couple of days so expect the vids or screenies within the week probably. I promise you will not be disappointed O.o
Man I can't believe I forgot to add this. As I figure this post will get read by a lot of people I wanted to give my thanks to SC2 Mapster, Sixen and the whole Crew who run and maintain the site for all of their effort and the tutorials and everything. Special thanks to ProzaicMuze who helped me get a missile to launch, and a beam to connect to a target, his tutorials were the best I learned sooooo much. One+two_WINNING you are the man I loved all the vids most of what I learned from you I used in my RPG which was put to the side at the start of TMA, but still I used your vids constantly and wanted to say thanks publicly. Thanks to all the guys writing those tutorials and sharing their knowledge without you guys what I have done with TMA would not be possible.
Some of the design decisions sound very similar to Smash in many ways. I actually don't care about "Pyro" so much seeing as "Pyro" is a pretty generic name to give a hero. Plus mine is a Marauder, not a Firebat (Ignus is the firebat hero coming soon).
In any case, some design decision differences:
You have three classes, mine has four.
You're going for a more rock-paper-scissors model, I aimed to make it so nothing hard counters another based around the fact that there is a teamplay enforcement in the game. Basically counters are removed by encouraging synergetic teamplay decisions.
I'm not sure how much you emphasize skill shots but Smash does use a unique hitscan mechanic for all of its skill shots in the game, a sort of directional emphasis on hitting targets using a form of traceline. I did this because missile dynamics in galaxy are haphazard and unreliable.
Combining abilities to only work well with other abilities sounds a bit...risky to me from a design standpoint. Because mainly what is the point of an ability if it has no use outside of being used with another specific hero?
There are a lot of abilities in Smash which have incredible synergy, but are by no means useless or diminished by not being combined with that of another hero. Take for instance, Pyro's ultimate "Ignition". He becomes immune to all damage for 3 seconds and then unleashes a powerful burst nuke to all enemies around him. Now obviously this is hard to land, so a deliberate design decision was made to make him invulnerable for the duration: This lets him soak incoming damage reactively, meaning he can pop it to absorb a ton of incoming damage. But there's also that threat of being in the blast radius. He can use his ult not only to do massive damage, but to zone people, protect himself, block line-based attacks, absorb damage, there's a multitude of usages behind every ability beyond "hitting" or "missing".
On the other hand, if someone roots the entire team into one area, Pyro can easily nuke that person before they get out of range (if their escape is down). Basically there were degrees and decisions made to emphasize skill based gameplay 100% into being the defining factor of Smashcraft.
Also your rock-paper-scissors system is almost identical to mine in every way. Guardians do bonus damage to Assaults, Assaults do bonus damage to Psions, and Psions do bonus to Guardians. This is almost a carbon copy in every way :P. I don't mind it, its actually a very good balancing mechanic, not because of the extra damage, but it basically makes up for weaknesses in a general aspect of that class by giving them the means to fight a class they would have a hard time against otherwise.
Other decisions like giving Guardians less escapes from roots, for example, a largely used mechanic by Psions, also drives how they "counter" Guardians. But at the same time, Guardians almost always have ways to greatly reduce incoming damage. Giving them a way to break roots in addition to everything else would be too much, where most classes don't have that damage reduction advantage.
I encourage you guys to consider all aspects of balance aside if you wish this to be a competitive game. Because largely what drives competitive games is a true sense of balance, not being able to do anything about the actions of another player without thinking "yeah, that is my fault that happened" is when games lose their competitive appeal. I think thats the best way to stress it.
I am really interested in trying this when it comes out, just to see the fruits of how long it's taken you guys to make it. I really do want to see more polished maps like my own out there, because the real thing that irks me about custom maps is how little effort is put into their production value and how well they do as a result of being lazy.
Actually none of the abilities are useless without their counterpart, the one I explained is very powerful even without someone to root the target, as the target has to A. realize the debuff is on them, B. conciously decide whether or not to remain stationary. C. execute whatever decision was made in B, all because you used one little ability. However if there is a root available it gurantees you get all the damage out of that ability, but if it isnt you either get 5 seconds of your opponent unable to attack you, or they may just run away completely, or you get to take out a nice chunk of their health, so you can see how this 1 ability can have several different functions but they are not forced, no one is forced to stand still or forced to move it is instead the players decision, so its like a fear that instead of forcing the target to run away makes them choose whether or not to run away. Personally I think its one of the awesomest abilities and in practical use during testing has proved to be almost overpowered, more testing will decide. Now obviously an ability as strong as this one is on a healthy cooldown, and can't be used all that often but she has other more frequently used methods of producing DPS quite nicely. what this ability is, is a push over the edge depending on how its used.
Like I said I only ever played 1 round of Smashcraft so I didnt realize we had so many similarities, but you are right they are mostly balance mechanics which are pretty global anyway in a LOT of games.
Zantai wussup bro! Yeah I have been quite busy, I can't wait for you to see what I have been working on. In all truth it was a post you made on your site that originally inspired me to take up the Editor and see what I could do with it. You had posted a bunch of tutorials and said something along the lines of now get out there and make some custom maps I can play! or something like that anyway, I decided if you coukld do all you had done with ZHRPG with the editor then surely I would be able to do what my imagination could come up with also. Glad to hear from you and that you are following my project at least somewhat 8-)
That is going to happen very soon, we have to get the UI done first though, which was done before the patch but as you have heard by now it brokded our UI. Now I do not do code, I suck at coding so im not doing the UI my partner is, I just give input on design when and where I need to but he does most of it and he is very good. So you should expect to see some vids in a few days, We are talking about it right now actually and we have agree'd that before Friday we should have some vids going up.
This just got about 100 times more amazing than I already thought. (and I already had high expectations after hearing what sixen said about him doing this because he knows for a fact its top stuff, and that you guys worked hours on end).
Can't wait to see and read more info, this might get me to dust off my sc2 icon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tutorials - Map Development - Galaxy wiki
|Issues? PM me|