I know they have to test them and all that. But after all that would you play a map you spent hours working on and then testing for balance just to make sure it was perfect. Then at the end of the day would you actually play the map and enjoy it? I'm starting to think it would be hard to enjoy it knowing everything that went into it.
I've finished three campaigns fpr WC3 and worked on an AAA product in germany and I can tell you that, while it's not impossible, it's really, really hard to play something you've created just for the fun of it. You'll always look for ways to improve the design (for future patches). Our lead designer said he never 'plays' his games after release.
For me I played a lot when I'm making them, but not too much after release, unless it is for finding out some bugs. Guess I got tired from playing too much.
Well I think it depends on the map you've made. I wouldn't see any reason the creator of a map like Facility 17 would play it over and over, but a cool multiplayer map like Sentry Scramble and Nexus war with a good replayability would be played by its mapmaker imo !
I know Eckonovkol does, I should know, he's on my friends list :) He has like 200 (I think, I haven't checked in a while) custom games. I'm assuming that most of those are SotIS but I can't check right now. I've been meaning to play a game with him, but haven't gotten around to it.
Yeah it depends. Creators are not usually fond of overplaying their own game, because well they already know all there is to it, and its kinda hard to describe the feeling. Ed Boon for instance is a huge Tekken Fan and plays it often.
Yaos01 does make a good point.
I would play other custom games out there, but most kinda suck at the moment.
Nexus wars has replayability? It feels like the same match every time. I always get top some how and we always have people using the same units. I'm glad I don't play anymore. I rather play some game like NOTD where you get something for playing.
@Keyeszx:
NOTD is quite good, I'm playing that atm ^^
@EternalWraith:
Please call me Yaos, the name was too short so I had to do this horrible "Yaos01" workaround ^^
I think it kind of depends on if it's a large team or just a single person making the map. In any case, the person(s) testing it is most likely going to get sick of the map and be relieved when it's finished. At this point it's difficult to tell if the game is even fun or not, since none of it is new....
It is the same for movies you do. I am working in the film industry and when I watch release version of a film most of the time I look at technical aspects and other related stuff and can't enjoy the movie itself :)
If you've actually taken the time to polish and balance it you've played it so many times that it's nearly impossible to get any enjoyment out of it anymore.
The truth is game development needs to be something you do because you love game development itself, not just because you love playing games and want to make the perfect game. If you see the development process solely as the means to an end you picked the wrong hobby!
However the people talking about teams are definitely right, if you're working on a small corner of something then you can definitely enjoy playing it. I think all the WoW developers play it in their spare time, for example. It's when you're doing the entire project on your own that it just becomes too much to play for fun.
From my exp, it usually turns out that you don't play games with a storyline a lot as a Developer. When it comes to multiplayer however, you usually play it once in a while, but not as much as a Gamer would. I'd never play a Singleplayer Campaign except for the fun of seeing what came out in the end, but when it comes to a decent multiplayer project, that has a good atmosphere, a lot of replayability and is enjoyed by a lot of people -> Count me in for playing once in a while. The reason why a lot of the StarCraft 2 Devs are actually playing the normal game is, that they still enjoy it after so many years of testing and because the team is so big. You didn't spend your entire day working on every aspect of the game. Which is good, because doing a map all-alone is neither a way to increase your own knowledge nor will you ever really have fun in the end, because you know every damn aspect ^^
@OutsiderXE: Go
Why do I have the feeling its Keen? :>
Hell yes. Once I don't get any enjoyment out of playing my own maps, I also stop working on them.
Especially when I play with others and see how they cope with what I challenge them with, that just great.
That's why I prefer team games. You can play the same bit over and over and still it's different everytime.
Depends on the type of game.
Puzzle game, no, because there's no challenge for the creator.
Twitch reaction game, yes, typically you have to be really good at it to balance it, and you can't exhaust the content by playing it too much.
Everything else, somewhere in between.
NotD (Night of the Dead) is a series of zombie survival maps originating from Warcraft 3. The players play a group of soldiers in a zombie-infested area to survive and carry out missions.
I would say the best installment of this series is . It's probably the best-looking Warcraft 3 map out there (great sfx, sounds, interface effects).
You can level up in rank (starting as a Private, going up to General), which'll gradually grant you new classes and abilities, but you won't exactly become stronger. This way Privates and Generals can still play together (unlike in most RPGs).
The catch is that it's a survival game with progression. Everytime you play you start at the beginning, but the game keeps you busy with different missions, random events and differences that'll make each game pretty much unpredictable.
Some missions, events or enemies will only appear once you have a certain rank or on a certain difficulty level. Event then most things are random. That way you often don't know what'll happen next, but you strive to finish the game on even higher difficulties and even harder missions.
The map wasn't publicly popular because of it's steep learning curve and it's high level of realism which resulted in a high difficulty (a few hits will kill you, you can break your bones, you're vulnerable when you reload, friendly fire isn't friendly at all, etc), but it still had a large fanbase.
I know they have to test them and all that. But after all that would you play a map you spent hours working on and then testing for balance just to make sure it was perfect. Then at the end of the day would you actually play the map and enjoy it? I'm starting to think it would be hard to enjoy it knowing everything that went into it.
@Keyeszx: Go
I've finished three campaigns fpr WC3 and worked on an AAA product in germany and I can tell you that, while it's not impossible, it's really, really hard to play something you've created just for the fun of it. You'll always look for ways to improve the design (for future patches). Our lead designer said he never 'plays' his games after release.
@Keyeszx: Go
For me I played a lot when I'm making them, but not too much after release, unless it is for finding out some bugs. Guess I got tired from playing too much.
I know Eckonovkol does, I should know, he's on my friends list :) He has like 200 (I think, I haven't checked in a while) custom games. I'm assuming that most of those are SotIS but I can't check right now. I've been meaning to play a game with him, but haven't gotten around to it.
@TheAhlias: Go
Yeah it depends. Creators are not usually fond of overplaying their own game, because well they already know all there is to it, and its kinda hard to describe the feeling. Ed Boon for instance is a huge Tekken Fan and plays it often.
Yaos01 does make a good point.
I would play other custom games out there, but most kinda suck at the moment.
@Yaos01: Go
Nexus wars has replayability? It feels like the same match every time. I always get top some how and we always have people using the same units. I'm glad I don't play anymore. I rather play some game like NOTD where you get something for playing.
I think it kind of depends on if it's a large team or just a single person making the map. In any case, the person(s) testing it is most likely going to get sick of the map and be relieved when it's finished. At this point it's difficult to tell if the game is even fun or not, since none of it is new....
It is the same for movies you do. I am working in the film industry and when I watch release version of a film most of the time I look at technical aspects and other related stuff and can't enjoy the movie itself :)
If you've actually taken the time to polish and balance it you've played it so many times that it's nearly impossible to get any enjoyment out of it anymore.
The truth is game development needs to be something you do because you love game development itself, not just because you love playing games and want to make the perfect game. If you see the development process solely as the means to an end you picked the wrong hobby!
However the people talking about teams are definitely right, if you're working on a small corner of something then you can definitely enjoy playing it. I think all the WoW developers play it in their spare time, for example. It's when you're doing the entire project on your own that it just becomes too much to play for fun.
From my exp, it usually turns out that you don't play games with a storyline a lot as a Developer. When it comes to multiplayer however, you usually play it once in a while, but not as much as a Gamer would. I'd never play a Singleplayer Campaign except for the fun of seeing what came out in the end, but when it comes to a decent multiplayer project, that has a good atmosphere, a lot of replayability and is enjoyed by a lot of people -> Count me in for playing once in a while. The reason why a lot of the StarCraft 2 Devs are actually playing the normal game is, that they still enjoy it after so many years of testing and because the team is so big. You didn't spend your entire day working on every aspect of the game. Which is good, because doing a map all-alone is neither a way to increase your own knowledge nor will you ever really have fun in the end, because you know every damn aspect ^^
@OutsiderXE: Go Why do I have the feeling its Keen? :>
It's like you're working at McDonald's, you smell the food there everyday, would you still want to eat a McDonald's food afterwork?
I love playing my map, just because it's a multiplayer competitive scenario.
I couldn't stand playing a co-op or "defense" map over and over though.
Hell yes. Once I don't get any enjoyment out of playing my own maps, I also stop working on them.
Especially when I play with others and see how they cope with what I challenge them with, that just great.
That's why I prefer team games. You can play the same bit over and over and still it's different everytime.
NotD is an excellent example of replayability done right. Played it for like a year without getting tired of it.
I think its just funny to play his own maps if the map got some random events/the whole map build up random
@s3rius:
What is this NotD that people mention?. What`s it about?
I don't play my own maps. It's just not funny.
@Keyeszx: Go
Depends on the type of game.
Puzzle game, no, because there's no challenge for the creator.
Twitch reaction game, yes, typically you have to be really good at it to balance it, and you can't exhaust the content by playing it too much.
Everything else, somewhere in between.
@EternalWraith: Go
NotD (Night of the Dead) is a series of zombie survival maps originating from Warcraft 3. The players play a group of soldiers in a zombie-infested area to survive and carry out missions.
I would say the best installment of this series is . It's probably the best-looking Warcraft 3 map out there (great sfx, sounds, interface effects).
You can level up in rank (starting as a Private, going up to General), which'll gradually grant you new classes and abilities, but you won't exactly become stronger. This way Privates and Generals can still play together (unlike in most RPGs).
The catch is that it's a survival game with progression. Everytime you play you start at the beginning, but the game keeps you busy with different missions, random events and differences that'll make each game pretty much unpredictable.
Some missions, events or enemies will only appear once you have a certain rank or on a certain difficulty level. Event then most things are random. That way you often don't know what'll happen next, but you strive to finish the game on even higher difficulties and even harder missions.
The map wasn't publicly popular because of it's steep learning curve and it's high level of realism which resulted in a high difficulty (a few hits will kill you, you can break your bones, you're vulnerable when you reload, friendly fire isn't friendly at all, etc), but it still had a large fanbase.