Why do people watch the same movie hundreds of time?
But since I am not fun of answering questions with questions:
Fun is relative. Squadron TD is not fun for me, specially since I experienced Mines and Magic which is far better.
Its not replayable, because you do all the same stuff in each game (at least most players) once you learned the best build. People replay it, cause you get the lobby filled up fast and they see its the most popular map so it must be the best too.
And they invested time into learning the game (aka a build) (until that point the game is deep to some degree), now they can play it over and over and enjoy it how it succeed.... If they would play another game they might would have to start learning again:)
Btw Squadron TD has hardly have any new players as I know, because the skill gap... It got most players when it come out and got popular and people were figuring it out.
STD can't both have "hardly any new players" and be "not replayable", yet still rank highly on the arcade. One or both of those have to be false.
People clearly find depth in it. Something keeps drawing them back for more games. It may not be to your liking, it certainly isn't to my liking, but what we like isn't important. It's what the arcade likes.
Now, by all means, rip on the arcade playerbase's choice of games. That's fair game. But I still contend that deep, fun, replayable (but not necessarily polished) games rise up the arcade easily.
STD can't both have "hardly any new players" and be "not replayable", yet still rank highly on the arcade. One or both of those have to be false.
People clearly find depth in it. Something keeps drawing them back for more games. It may not be to your liking, it certainly isn't to my liking, but what we like isn't important. It's what the arcade likes.
Now, by all means, rip on the arcade playerbase's choice of games. That's fair game. But I still contend that deep, fun, replayable (but not necessarily polished) games rise up the arcade easily.
Only because people find replayability in a game doesnt mean its deep.
While I don't agree on all of Tya's opinions, I think he has a very good point in that we all as a community should be supportive of what Starcraft 2 provides rather than dwell in overglorified nostalgia about WC3. There are tons of opportunities to get create amazing content with the tools we have, but a majority of the stuff I read on the forum (outside of people asking for specific help/helping or showing off their work) is pretty unjustified negativity towards SC2 in one way or another and focussing on what we don't have instead of what we have.
I wasn't a fan of the Arcade and Bnet 2.0 in the last 3 years, but I have to admit that the changes they implemented in the last year or so are pretty huge. They even improved the latency BIG times in the last patch (at least for EU, can't talk about NA), which makes custom maps like Hivekeeper or other maps which rely a lot on a nice custom made UI and responsive controls so much more enjoyable. While there are still problems in creating a deep gameplay experience for players because of the lack of custom named lobbies that can establish rules before the games starts, I think the Arcade overall is already better than the WC3 Custom Map Lobby could ever hope to be.
Now if Blizzard creates some sort of custom tag system that allows each host to tag their lobby with appropriate tags (Dota would have "apem", "wtfmode" etc. as tags for example) I think the list of things that makes the SC2 Arcade interface inferior to the WC3 one would be almost non-existant and it would allow a lot more maps with gameplay depth to rise to the top. It would also help already existing deep communities like Star Battles for example to gain a lot more attention and following.
Collective wisdom must be always right in bnet. We should all just stop playing maps outside of the top 2 page as eventually deep, fun, replayable games rise up the arcade.
It would be great if similar maps could be grouped together. I wish I could make separate terrains for my stuff without having to use multiple arcade entries. I'm sure the developers behind maps like Starbow would appreciate it too.
Oh arcade, why do you torment me so. You're so good at doing what you were designed to do, just too bad that you weren't designed to support and encourage niche experiences. Made to give us but the best of the best, sad you support only one kind of best – the one that can clock most hours. For those who want something different and obscure, you'd have them be beggars, strip away their dignity and make them feel unwelcomed, just because they don't fit with the crowd.
Oh well, you looked around and molded yourself based on what you saw. It's interesting to watch, at first there was a kid who didn't care about anything and did his own thing, he was clumsy but everyone was joyous to observe him kid around. Then the next phase came, an insecure teen who thinks that he must obey the rules laid before him. What a cruel reality. Nevertheless, I still hope that someday you'll be invitive and understanding to everyone, playing freely without restrains, as adult but freed of all the nonsense.
But the decisions aren't mine to make, so why do I even bother? =/
I wish I could make separate terrains for my stuff without having to use multiple arcade entries. I'm sure the developers behind maps like Starbow would appreciate it too.
Yea, it would be cool to have a set of terrains per map to pick from on map init.
But in the same time we have terrain deformers, creep with custom textures, splats, pathing changing natives. They together would be a pretty useful instrument of terrain generation, so maps could have unlimited variety of terrains. But these things either far from a desired perfectness (like terrain deformers) or simply doesn't work (like pathing nativees). I've talked about it with blizz dudes when they have been in irc. And hope any of these will be touched in 2.2.
(I even have a random melee map generator, but the limits of the terrain modifiers can't make it functionally as perfect as the premade ones).
Yes, it will be. So far, there is no interaction between Storm and Arcade. I've asked about it on the influencer summit.
Meanwhile, JademusSreg extracted and published strings from the leaked Storm alpha client. And it includes alot of arcade and sc2 campaign tokens. Which alludes that Storm and SC2 clients may be compartible and link each other.
Meanwhile, JademusSreg extracted and published strings from the leaked Storm alpha client. And it includes alot of arcade and sc2 campaign tokens. Which alludes that Storm and SC2 clients may be compartible and link each other.
Or the storms client has leftover assets from the sc2 client. Surely that is the more likely reason.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
@Hookah604: Go
This is exactly why I didn't give a direct answer, to avoid going though each and every map and explaining why they meet each attribute I mentioned.
So Squadron TD is not replayable and fun? Why, in your opinion, do people invest so much time in it then?
If it's not deep, why do people bother playing it more than once?
@TyaStarcraft: Go
Why do people watch the same movie hundreds of time?
But since I am not fun of answering questions with questions:
Fun is relative. Squadron TD is not fun for me, specially since I experienced Mines and Magic which is far better.
Its not replayable, because you do all the same stuff in each game (at least most players) once you learned the best build. People replay it, cause you get the lobby filled up fast and they see its the most popular map so it must be the best too.
And they invested time into learning the game (aka a build) (until that point the game is deep to some degree), now they can play it over and over and enjoy it how it succeed.... If they would play another game they might would have to start learning again:)
Btw Squadron TD has hardly have any new players as I know, because the skill gap... It got most players when it come out and got popular and people were figuring it out.
@Hookah604: Go
STD can't both have "hardly any new players" and be "not replayable", yet still rank highly on the arcade. One or both of those have to be false.
People clearly find depth in it. Something keeps drawing them back for more games. It may not be to your liking, it certainly isn't to my liking, but what we like isn't important. It's what the arcade likes.
Now, by all means, rip on the arcade playerbase's choice of games. That's fair game. But I still contend that deep, fun, replayable (but not necessarily polished) games rise up the arcade easily.
Only because people find replayability in a game doesnt mean its deep.
While I don't agree on all of Tya's opinions, I think he has a very good point in that we all as a community should be supportive of what Starcraft 2 provides rather than dwell in overglorified nostalgia about WC3. There are tons of opportunities to get create amazing content with the tools we have, but a majority of the stuff I read on the forum (outside of people asking for specific help/helping or showing off their work) is pretty unjustified negativity towards SC2 in one way or another and focussing on what we don't have instead of what we have.
I wasn't a fan of the Arcade and Bnet 2.0 in the last 3 years, but I have to admit that the changes they implemented in the last year or so are pretty huge. They even improved the latency BIG times in the last patch (at least for EU, can't talk about NA), which makes custom maps like Hivekeeper or other maps which rely a lot on a nice custom made UI and responsive controls so much more enjoyable. While there are still problems in creating a deep gameplay experience for players because of the lack of custom named lobbies that can establish rules before the games starts, I think the Arcade overall is already better than the WC3 Custom Map Lobby could ever hope to be.
Now if Blizzard creates some sort of custom tag system that allows each host to tag their lobby with appropriate tags (Dota would have "apem", "wtfmode" etc. as tags for example) I think the list of things that makes the SC2 Arcade interface inferior to the WC3 one would be almost non-existant and it would allow a lot more maps with gameplay depth to rise to the top. It would also help already existing deep communities like Star Battles for example to gain a lot more attention and following.
@TyaStarcraft: Go
Collective wisdom must be always right in bnet. We should all just stop playing maps outside of the top 2 page as eventually deep, fun, replayable games rise up the arcade.
@Hookah604: Go
You disagree, and that's fine, but statements like that just kill any discussion.
@Bommes: Go
It would be great if similar maps could be grouped together. I wish I could make separate terrains for my stuff without having to use multiple arcade entries. I'm sure the developers behind maps like Starbow would appreciate it too.
Oh arcade, why do you torment me so. You're so good at doing what you were designed to do, just too bad that you weren't designed to support and encourage niche experiences. Made to give us but the best of the best, sad you support only one kind of best – the one that can clock most hours. For those who want something different and obscure, you'd have them be beggars, strip away their dignity and make them feel unwelcomed, just because they don't fit with the crowd.
Oh well, you looked around and molded yourself based on what you saw. It's interesting to watch, at first there was a kid who didn't care about anything and did his own thing, he was clumsy but everyone was joyous to observe him kid around. Then the next phase came, an insecure teen who thinks that he must obey the rules laid before him. What a cruel reality. Nevertheless, I still hope that someday you'll be invitive and understanding to everyone, playing freely without restrains, as adult but freed of all the nonsense.
But the decisions aren't mine to make, so why do I even bother? =/
Yea, it would be cool to have a set of terrains per map to pick from on map init.
But in the same time we have terrain deformers, creep with custom textures, splats, pathing changing natives. They together would be a pretty useful instrument of terrain generation, so maps could have unlimited variety of terrains. But these things either far from a desired perfectness (like terrain deformers) or simply doesn't work (like pathing nativees). I've talked about it with blizz dudes when they have been in irc. And hope any of these will be touched in 2.2.
(I even have a random melee map generator, but the limits of the terrain modifiers can't make it functionally as perfect as the premade ones).
@TyaStarcraft: Go
yeah, since our discussion was going nowhere, it was better to kill it.
Since blizzard added extension mods, I dont think it would be hard for them to make something like that for arcade.
What did both WC3 and BW have in common?
The solution is clear.
I still think one of the key elements in the wc3/sc1 arcade being so popular was that not many other multiplayer online games were out at those times.
Meanwhile, JademusSreg extracted and published strings from the leaked Storm alpha client. And it includes alot of arcade and sc2 campaign tokens. Which alludes that Storm and SC2 clients may be compartible and link each other.
Or the storms client has leftover assets from the sc2 client. Surely that is the more likely reason.