Think about DotA. I know you hate it with a passion but just think about it for a minute.
If you think it through, would DotA have happened at all on bnet 2.0?
I mean just look at it.
1. You can't do leagues. Things like clan DXD and the 3rd party DotA client would not be possible. There are no clans and DotA client would instantl result in a ban.
2. You can't do game modes. Good god every time the host did a game mode other than what was listed in the game name half of the players would leave almost every time.
3. Lobby delay bug. Face it, people liked playing DotA with their friends. With the lobby delay bug this in pratice becomes impossible. And makes league games even more futile.
4. And thats all assuming that DotA would actually have risen in the popularity system in the first place. Allstars had a lot of competitors but it won in the end because people liked it the best. It certainly wasn't the first. Now we have SOTIS and only SOTIS because nothing can get high enough to challenge it. And the SOTIS team would bed morons not to realize this. And blizzard is actually choosing to listen the them and almost only them? And they are going to lose money by listening to the SOTIS team? I don't know about you guys but I can certainly see whats comming crystal clear.
Botting is mostly rampant because they can do that. People used to play WC3, not just host games for it. yeah, I have a bot. I don't autohost though. I mostly have private games with myself on games I know because most new maps for WC3 are half-assed, crap, stupid, pointless, or combinations of that.
@FockeWulf: Go
Not only did it work, it worked quite well. Shame Blizzard's taken such an opposite direction with 2.0.
Warning: Inquisitive mind at work.
Warning: Insanity is on the horizon.
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
It turns out that players in Asia do not play monthly fees! They, in fact, pay by the hour. I did not know this before. I suppose you learn something new everyday. Looking at their financial statements, man, Blizzard's income has taken some hits. You can find their statements online via any financial webpage (eg: yahoo finance). Ticker name is ATVI (if you look at share prices over a 5 year period, keep in mind that there was a stock split sometime back).
On the flip side, Blizzard can rebound, and I hope they do. A quick look at their webpage suggests that they are actively seeking talent (maybe some of the modders here can apply!), and, of course, leadership can, and will, be ousted if the share price continues to under preform.
A financial rebound is about to come. I promise you now, if D3 doesn't get them out of that little hole, can anything? (It's my first Diablo game, and I love the beta too. It's funny, I had SC2 and D3 beta, and I have SC2WoL: Collector's Edition, getting D3: Collector's Edition....heh. Tyreal marine portrait >:D )
Anyway, they can't change the leadership too much. Storylines will get very awkward shapes if they replace too many people in that department. Team who made BNet 2.0 could get some change outs, but I think for the most part everyone else isn't doing too badly. (Did you SEE the Black Soulstone cutscene? I swear that looks very realistic, I had to remind myself for a moment that it wasn't.)
Warning: Inquisitive mind at work.
Warning: Insanity is on the horizon.
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
Think about DotA. I know you hate it with a passion but just think about it for a minute.
If you think it through, would DotA have happened at all on bnet 2.0?
I mean just look at it.
1. You can't do leagues. Things like clan DXD and the 3rd party DotA client would not be possible. There are no clans and DotA client would instantl result in a ban.
2. You can't do game modes. Good god every time the host did a game mode other than what was listed in the game name half of the players would leave almost every time.
3. Lobby delay bug. Face it, people liked playing DotA with their friends. With the lobby delay bug this in pratice becomes impossible. And makes league games even more futile.
4. And thats all assuming that DotA would actually have risen in the popularity system in the first place. Allstars had a lot of competitors but it won in the end because people liked it the best. It certainly wasn't the first. Now we have SOTIS and only SOTIS because nothing can get high enough to challenge it. And the SOTIS team would bed morons not to realize this. And blizzard is actually choosing to listen the them and almost only them? And they are going to lose money by listening to the SOTIS team? I don't know about you guys but I can certainly see whats comming crystal clear.
isnt hero attack a direct competitor to sotis? from what i have seen hero attack has been higher in the pop list for months now. Again people like to pretend as if maps dont have a chance and/or that there are better maps out there that should be higher in the list.
The fact is, that while the popularity system is bad, the current maps as bad as they are that hold the top of the list, still are better than 99% of the maps out there. The only thing i can recall that deserves more attention is star strikers and smash craft, the problem with star strikers is its sort of like a mini game, Its really fun at first but it does not have the replay value to keep it high in popularity for long (that + soccer is a hated sport in USA). And the problem with smashcraft is that while its definately the most impressive map out there in terms of UI and Presentation, the gameplay just sucks.. Bloodline champions is a fail game for a reason.
Ive reached the point where ive heard every map is bad, including mine ( and i agree, i hate my own map) , but for me personally the lore of sc2 does not lend itself to fantasy maps like how warcraft 3 is, The most important thing about sc2 to war3 is accepting the fact that sc2 is a different game and to stop comparing it to warcraft 3.
Improving /removing the pop system will make no difference in the grand scheme of things, because all the maps are bad . Only when people start accepting starcraft 2 for what it is will be be like " okay this is a good game considering the platform it is on", much like how a gameboy game does not get a rating compared to a playstation 3 game.
The point isnt wheter the map is stellar or not. Its that in wc3 you could play WHAT YOU WANT. in sc2 you cant. You have to play what others want to play. Example who the fuck would play escape from gay heaven for 10000h, its a game you come back to every now and then....
Wheter the maps at top are 95% better than other maps is irrelevant. It boosts and support only certain types of maps.
second point would be to actually able to test 6+ players map in other day than mapnight. Admid it or not, but testing is huge part of the development.
If you fail to realize all these things....you are "insert word here" (Ill refrain myself from being mean this time)
I wonder how many times I have to post same things over and over again before I can make people understand....probly years of work...
Is a great thread to get some info, and it's the #1 hot topic on sc2 forums constantly. It is a very large portion of players who are just discouraged by SC2''s interface, and not just the mappers/custom players.
Let's face it, with custom maps, we're not going to have much by way of fantasy. We're going to have more SF stuff. Problem is, I kinda hate the current SFs. It's all "shared income". Why can't we have it the old fashion way? If you want to have gobs of money - GET IT. (Though I do like some of the upgrades we couldn't get in SC1. Health, attack speed, energy, health regen, AUTOCASTING STIM....)
But yeah, fantasy is going to be hard in a setting focused on that "high tech" look. I don't think many people will want to stare at a Zerg UI all the time, Protoss UI feels like playing God, and Terran UI feels good, but also like everything is supposed to be machinery. I don't really like the custom UIs that basically take everything out. Someone should just skin the original UIs - like they did in WC3.
This of course means someone has to hear about your map in the first place, or stumble on it in Fun or Not, and has to get decent following so it can get a spot on page 1 or 2, then you aught to be okay. Past that? Good luck.
Though I will partially agree with whomever said "every map is bad", there are few good ones. Income war/def (I forget which it is now lol, been a while since I played) is great. It's like how Income games used to be, but as a tug-of-war. With heroes. And you can heal the main base. And it attacks. And there's a lot of strategy to it. I only wish we could hold back units (though we might be able to do that now...been a while since I played :P) Infested Arena 2 also was good, but died out a while ago. There was one RPG I kinda liked, but I think it also died out. There really has been little else that really got me going "Ohh, I liiiiiike this..."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Warning: Inquisitive mind at work.
Warning: Insanity is on the horizon.
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
Xeno, you're a pretty cool guy, but... there's a large button right above your right shift with an arrow on it - if you push that every 5-10 seconds while typing a post, I might actually understand wtf you're trying to say.
I lol'd.
And agreed.
But the point is that I lol'd.
I did recognize some phrases in there, like "Temple Siege", which reminds me that I should ask UnholyUrine (maker of it) if he still plays SC1...(we were in a clan together, a mapmaking clan, and my map was abysmal but still passed lol. Seriously, to remake it from scratch is almost better than using anything from the original. Perhaps some triggers, but one side was triggered one way, the other side another, and only one side worked right, and the whole thing was kinda dumb anyway...)
Warning: Inquisitive mind at work.
Warning: Insanity is on the horizon.
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
Xeno, you're a pretty cool guy, but... there's a large button right above your right shift with an arrow on it - if you push that every 5-10 seconds while typing a post, I might actually understand wtf you're trying to say.
lol sorry i changed it for you os you could understand
"None of the downsides"? Every character has to have at least one downside, or else everyone will want it and it'd be rigged.
And dude, I think you made the post even worse....lol...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Warning: Inquisitive mind at work.
Warning: Insanity is on the horizon.
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
But that gives us another problem. Any time it was attacked, it'd just run away. For a unit with no actual attack, this can be seen as a good thing. As a unit with spells to attack with, it's a bit difficult to attack with a spell when you're running away...don't you think?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Warning: Inquisitive mind at work.
Warning: Insanity is on the horizon.
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
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The part I find funny (in a sad way) is this.
Think about DotA. I know you hate it with a passion but just think about it for a minute.
If you think it through, would DotA have happened at all on bnet 2.0?
I mean just look at it.
1. You can't do leagues. Things like clan DXD and the 3rd party DotA client would not be possible. There are no clans and DotA client would instantl result in a ban.
2. You can't do game modes. Good god every time the host did a game mode other than what was listed in the game name half of the players would leave almost every time.
3. Lobby delay bug. Face it, people liked playing DotA with their friends. With the lobby delay bug this in pratice becomes impossible. And makes league games even more futile.
4. And thats all assuming that DotA would actually have risen in the popularity system in the first place. Allstars had a lot of competitors but it won in the end because people liked it the best. It certainly wasn't the first. Now we have SOTIS and only SOTIS because nothing can get high enough to challenge it. And the SOTIS team would bed morons not to realize this. And blizzard is actually choosing to listen the them and almost only them? And they are going to lose money by listening to the SOTIS team? I don't know about you guys but I can certainly see whats comming crystal clear.
@sandround: Go
Both had flaws. One actually worked dispite its flaws.
@sandround: Go
Botting is mostly rampant because they can do that. People used to play WC3, not just host games for it. yeah, I have a bot. I don't autohost though. I mostly have private games with myself on games I know because most new maps for WC3 are half-assed, crap, stupid, pointless, or combinations of that.
@FockeWulf: Go Not only did it work, it worked quite well. Shame Blizzard's taken such an opposite direction with 2.0.
@Sandman366: Go
@Sandman
It turns out that players in Asia do not play monthly fees! They, in fact, pay by the hour. I did not know this before. I suppose you learn something new everyday. Looking at their financial statements, man, Blizzard's income has taken some hits. You can find their statements online via any financial webpage (eg: yahoo finance). Ticker name is ATVI (if you look at share prices over a 5 year period, keep in mind that there was a stock split sometime back).
On the flip side, Blizzard can rebound, and I hope they do. A quick look at their webpage suggests that they are actively seeking talent (maybe some of the modders here can apply!), and, of course, leadership can, and will, be ousted if the share price continues to under preform.
@Yeti434: Go
Frankly a leadership change is well beyond due.
@Yeti434: Go
A financial rebound is about to come. I promise you now, if D3 doesn't get them out of that little hole, can anything? (It's my first Diablo game, and I love the beta too. It's funny, I had SC2 and D3 beta, and I have SC2WoL: Collector's Edition, getting D3: Collector's Edition....heh. Tyreal marine portrait >:D )
Anyway, they can't change the leadership too much. Storylines will get very awkward shapes if they replace too many people in that department. Team who made BNet 2.0 could get some change outs, but I think for the most part everyone else isn't doing too badly. (Did you SEE the Black Soulstone cutscene? I swear that looks very realistic, I had to remind myself for a moment that it wasn't.)
I just want a players in lobby system, where the top games are the ones with players in a lobby....
Battle.net 1.0 > 2.0 in all ways that actually matter. 2.0 is like a dumb blond. Pretty, but has absolutely nothing to offer beyond that.
isnt hero attack a direct competitor to sotis? from what i have seen hero attack has been higher in the pop list for months now. Again people like to pretend as if maps dont have a chance and/or that there are better maps out there that should be higher in the list.
The fact is, that while the popularity system is bad, the current maps as bad as they are that hold the top of the list, still are better than 99% of the maps out there. The only thing i can recall that deserves more attention is star strikers and smash craft, the problem with star strikers is its sort of like a mini game, Its really fun at first but it does not have the replay value to keep it high in popularity for long (that + soccer is a hated sport in USA). And the problem with smashcraft is that while its definately the most impressive map out there in terms of UI and Presentation, the gameplay just sucks.. Bloodline champions is a fail game for a reason.
Ive reached the point where ive heard every map is bad, including mine ( and i agree, i hate my own map) , but for me personally the lore of sc2 does not lend itself to fantasy maps like how warcraft 3 is, The most important thing about sc2 to war3 is accepting the fact that sc2 is a different game and to stop comparing it to warcraft 3.
Improving /removing the pop system will make no difference in the grand scheme of things, because all the maps are bad . Only when people start accepting starcraft 2 for what it is will be be like " okay this is a good game considering the platform it is on", much like how a gameboy game does not get a rating compared to a playstation 3 game.
@Jinxxx123: Go
The point isnt wheter the map is stellar or not. Its that in wc3 you could play WHAT YOU WANT. in sc2 you cant. You have to play what others want to play. Example who the fuck would play escape from gay heaven for 10000h, its a game you come back to every now and then....
Wheter the maps at top are 95% better than other maps is irrelevant. It boosts and support only certain types of maps.
second point would be to actually able to test 6+ players map in other day than mapnight. Admid it or not, but testing is huge part of the development.
If you fail to realize all these things....you are "insert word here" (Ill refrain myself from being mean this time)
@Jinxxx123: Go
Runecraft vs Nexus Wars....
No contest there and a glaring test case of the popularity system.
Some people here are arguing that only us custom mappers are the ones complaining about the new battle.net 2.0.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4038616990
Is a great thread to get some info, and it's the #1 hot topic on sc2 forums constantly. It is a very large portion of players who are just discouraged by SC2''s interface, and not just the mappers/custom players.
@Jinxxx123: Go
Let's face it, with custom maps, we're not going to have much by way of fantasy. We're going to have more SF stuff. Problem is, I kinda hate the current SFs. It's all "shared income". Why can't we have it the old fashion way? If you want to have gobs of money - GET IT. (Though I do like some of the upgrades we couldn't get in SC1. Health, attack speed, energy, health regen, AUTOCASTING STIM....)
But yeah, fantasy is going to be hard in a setting focused on that "high tech" look. I don't think many people will want to stare at a Zerg UI all the time, Protoss UI feels like playing God, and Terran UI feels good, but also like everything is supposed to be machinery. I don't really like the custom UIs that basically take everything out. Someone should just skin the original UIs - like they did in WC3.
This of course means someone has to hear about your map in the first place, or stumble on it in Fun or Not, and has to get decent following so it can get a spot on page 1 or 2, then you aught to be okay. Past that? Good luck.
Though I will partially agree with whomever said "every map is bad", there are few good ones. Income war/def (I forget which it is now lol, been a while since I played) is great. It's like how Income games used to be, but as a tug-of-war. With heroes. And you can heal the main base. And it attacks. And there's a lot of strategy to it. I only wish we could hold back units (though we might be able to do that now...been a while since I played :P) Infested Arena 2 also was good, but died out a while ago. There was one RPG I kinda liked, but I think it also died out. There really has been little else that really got me going "Ohh, I liiiiiike this..."
@Jinxxx123: Go
i hate to bring this up... but what do you contribute? you act like all maps are trash expect first page... so i
have to ask are you blind man? that's not all though.. horror maps are dying out. on sc2 and so are fun maps
in general. so i have to ask, do you intend to improve your map so no one turns on each other then kill
their enemies bases/etc (in game of course) my point is your map isn't perfect anymore than the maps
below page 1. my problem with your map is mainly ONLY GOSU PROS Can do it! which is why i avoid it... it
is too hard for average or even good players to play. i admit your map is far beyond my skill level.. your hero
abilities are too hard also and once you fall behind you can lose very quickly. sorry i had to get that out of my
system... but yea the popularity system only makes boring repetitive games go to the top... except mafia. the r
rest just starve... and fall to the bottom. i do not hate you. matter of fact i would like to see your map at a
higher plane if you could only implement a system similar to marine arena where you get minerals every so
often. like even every 10 minutes... somehow i doubt you'll do this but i felt like suggesting it. i wish you
good luck in finding peace in your soul... oh and btw i do have one more suggestion... you should add a defiler
char (summoner) like the one from the old temple siege map. it had no attack but could summon 3 different t
types of units and it also had a spell which converted the units to energy... but anyways like i said... find peace...
@XenoYoxa: Go
Xeno, you're a pretty cool guy, but... there's a large button right above your right shift with an arrow on it - if you push that every 5-10 seconds while typing a post, I might actually understand wtf you're trying to say.
@Mozared: Go
I lol'd. And agreed. But the point is that I lol'd.
I did recognize some phrases in there, like "Temple Siege", which reminds me that I should ask UnholyUrine (maker of it) if he still plays SC1...(we were in a clan together, a mapmaking clan, and my map was abysmal but still passed lol. Seriously, to remake it from scratch is almost better than using anything from the original. Perhaps some triggers, but one side was triggered one way, the other side another, and only one side worked right, and the whole thing was kinda dumb anyway...)
@Sandman366: Go
i only meant add the spellcaster from temple siege preferably with all his abilities. but none of its downsides... it would be a fun char to have.
lol sorry i changed it for you os you could understand
@XenoYoxa: Go
"None of the downsides"? Every character has to have at least one downside, or else everyone will want it and it'd be rigged.
And dude, I think you made the post even worse....lol...
@Sandman366: Go
point taken... lol. i should've said... that the only real downside would be defiler couldn't attack. lol aka on its own without spells
@XenoYoxa: Go
Pure spellcast, no normal attack.
But that gives us another problem. Any time it was attacked, it'd just run away. For a unit with no actual attack, this can be seen as a good thing. As a unit with spells to attack with, it's a bit difficult to attack with a spell when you're running away...don't you think?