Umm... If "popularity" is supposed to be the number of games played over (x) period of time, then a 30 min game is naturally going to have 1/6 the "popularity" of a 5 min game... because 6 times the number of games need to be played to occupy the same quantity of time... (of course there's loby time)
I'm not sure what this graph is supposed to represent, nor the point it's making... You say that the more players in a game and the longer the game takes the fewer times per x (time) the game is played... but as I pointed out that's a falatious point. I am missunderstanding this. Please clarify.
You would be right if people played maps on page 300 with the same frequency they play maps on page 1. But the truth is, no onle likes to scroll down.
30 min game does not have 1/6 of the popularity of a 5 min game. If you let a 5 min game be x = a. Then, in a 30 min game, x = a/6. x is the real popularity, but the Battle.net popularity is e^x (the euler's curve) since more people play maps on the first page. In other words, even though you reduced popularity by 6 times in a 30 min games, it causes a chain reaction that reduces much more popularity than just 6 times. Depending the value of x (how good and famous your map is), the popularity can be reduced 3 times or maybe 200 times. The graph shows that.
As an example of this chain reaction, my map Platform Defense was an 8-players game stucked at page 200. The game was changed to a 4-players game, and the map became the second most played map in less than 24 hours. The popularity did much more than just double. The value of x doubled, but popularity is f(x).
what blizzard needs to do is make the default list show all the new maps, and let you the priority to most popular if you want... the new lobbies are whats most important.
the system bliz has in there right now is just retarded.
I updated the graph to make it more symmetric and accurate. The first one was a little confusing. I believe this one is easier to understand. The concept is the same.
Yeah, the popularity system is like a snake biting its own tail.
They need to change it, but I think they already know that.
My map for example is a 8 players 30 minute game. Don't really care if is in the first page or not, I'm making it for fun, but with the actual system is almost impossible that someone just FINDS my map to play. They must search for the name of the map, so the chances to someone to play are pretty close to zero. Thinking that the chances a random person will see your map in the list (don't talk about playing it) are close to zero is pretty discouraging.
As an example of this chain reaction, my map Platform Defense was an 8-players game stucked at page 200. The game was changed to a 4-players game, and the map became the second most played map in less than 24 hours. The popularity did much more than just double. The value of x doubled, but popularity is f(x).
More the map is popular, more the map is played.
What we need to find is where is the exact point, which page people need to reach, to create the chain reaction which brings good maps in top of populars maps.
I'll try to set up my map to 4 players max, to see what's happening, because it can also be a coincidence. Nevertheless, in EU, "Probert the Probe" movie seems to prove your theory.
More the map is popular, more the map is played.
What we need to find is where is the exact point, which page people need to reach, to create the chain reaction which brings good maps in top of populars maps.
Depend of the map and how big it is. There's some maps on page 3 that didn't get the reaction yet. Debates didn't get the reaction with 300 games played (35 min 8-players social game.....). However, Platform Defense got the chain reaction with about 120 games played (page 5). I don't think games with less than 50 games played can get the reaction, unless they are already popular, like what happened when Tank Defense was deleted.
No one likes to wait in lobby for a long time. Most people join a lobby, wait for 10-20 seconds, if there's no one they just leave. So, to have a reaction, you need a game that there's more games happening than people leaving.
Also, people like to play full-house. Bigger maps require more people to join the game together, so it requires a higher popularity to be able to react and grow.
Wake up and smell the coffee guys, the game industry as a whole is changing to satisfy a more casual audience. Wii, Move, Kinnect... the market testing has shown that something you can just pick up and play is much more successful than something that takes time to learn. People look at things like the Wii and say, "Hey I can do that, I know how to move my arms". Thats why things like nexus wars are so successful, "hey I know how to build buildings!" I mean it practically plays itself.
I say the whole popularity system should be inversed. Give those popular maps a taste of their own medicine :). Make maps with 0 popularity show up first, and if people really want to play certain popular games they can scroll down.
I know it would be just the same as now, was a joke.
But why not just remove popularity since its a huge problem. That way there would be no competition.
Option A: Add a search function, have 5 maps featured, the rest in random order. Sort of like Warcraft 3, just with featured maps. Premium maps could be decided by like feedback from players.
Option B: Instead of a crappy popularity system have Blizzard hire a staff to sit through and watch games. Have them make notes and decide which map is popular. I know this will result in crappy biased blizzard opinions, but either way blizzard will try to steal your game if they think it will be a popular idea.
Option B: Instead of a crappy popularity system have Blizzard hire a staff to sit through and watch games. Have them make notes and decide which map is popular. I know this will result in crappy biased blizzard opinions, but either way blizzard will try to steal your game if they think it will be a popular idea.
I think we should decide what's popular and not Blizzard. Blizzard would never say that maps like "Kill the president" or "F* the zergling" is popular, it doesn't matter how awesome these maps can be.
I vote permaban for people complaining about the popularity system.
Its getting old people. Seriously WC3 wasnt much better Custom Join list wise.
At least it didn't totally screw over new maps as they always showed up in the list.
Also, if you want to have different modes in your map, either you split it so it shows up more than once the list, or you do it ingame, and then some people won't like it that either the host decides on that mode or that the majority forces some to play a mode they don't like -> np in warcraft 3!
lol how'd u do this? Just went, hey, here's some info for u guys, enjoy. And made a graph or something expressing it? lolz, I would totally do something like that.
Big maps have to be treated way different that smaller ones. I will detail below.
The problem with mapmakers in general is they just finish their map and release it (or release beta maps). This is esspecially bad for big maps as they are not pick up and play. Makers of big maps need to treat thier map like a product if they really want it to catch on. They should do a ton of videos, put up a professional website and make people excited to see the day when the map gets published.
In other words, treat your map like its a real game release with sneak peaks, youtube extravaganzas, closed beta tests and get a player base before your map even comes out. Yeah you might have to throw some money into it but if you want to compete with the big dogs (or should I say little dogs :P ) there will always be a price.
If you want a large map to be popular do this.
Wait till its almost done and then announce it.
Have a somewhat professional website ready at announcement.
Invite people to beta test your map privately THAT day.
Release multiple Youtube videos on announcement day and then release at least two videos a week until the game "launches".
If you do this you will garner fans (if your map is worth a damn in the first place) because those beta testers will spread word as will all your hype press. This way you will have players when your map launches.
But the #1 thing you SHOULD NOT do is...
DO NOT RELEASE BETA MAPS. Get beta testers, beg if you have to but do not release a buggy map and expect it to still do well.
Haha, my epic fail was that i released all my beta maps, people looks see all this and vomiting on my map. And now, when my map not so bad, noone play it, becouse I've already spoiled the impression before that :( . And nothing help, new video, site, people play SotiS and happy :D .
I am guilty of breaking all those rules too :P. But I learned and now with my new project I am going all out. Helps that I needed a website to promote my writing anyways, might as well piggyback mapmaking :P.
Anyways, I think your issue was the dota thing which, until the recent complete redesign of my map, I was falling into as well.
It is really foolhardy to try do a DoTA map verbatim. Even if you change a few mechanics. You see, LoL, HoN, Valves upcoming game and SoTiS already have that covered. It actually took my friends playing my game and saying, "Brad, its really great and fun. But man, its missing so many features that LoL and HoN have that there really is no point in playing it."
It stung but it was the truth. So I added a second to mercenary gaming's staff and we have worked out and gotten pretty far along with a map that offers features the none of the aforementioned games have. In fact there is nobody on bnet (at least not in the top 5 pages) that has a similar idea to us. So, I feel comfortable that we may be able to carve out a niche with the proper marketing.
So yeah, we should add to my list;
Do not create a DoTA or AoS map
Do not create a tower defense
Do not create a survival map
If it is your dream to create these maps then go for it. But don't be surprised if they get no play time.
@Anthius:
yes, you are, big time =P.
lets say there are 1000 players on b.net
A 1 player, 5 min game, can have a popularity count of 12000 in 1 hour
A 1 player, 10 min game, can only have 6000 in 1 hour
A 2 player, 5 min game, can have a popularity of only 6000 in 1 hour
A 2 player, 10 min game, can only have a populairy of 3000, in 1 hour
The more people and the longer the game, the harder it is to get up, which is what the graph shows
You would be right if people played maps on page 300 with the same frequency they play maps on page 1. But the truth is, no onle likes to scroll down.
30 min game does not have 1/6 of the popularity of a 5 min game. If you let a 5 min game be x = a. Then, in a 30 min game, x = a/6. x is the real popularity, but the Battle.net popularity is e^x (the euler's curve) since more people play maps on the first page. In other words, even though you reduced popularity by 6 times in a 30 min games, it causes a chain reaction that reduces much more popularity than just 6 times. Depending the value of x (how good and famous your map is), the popularity can be reduced 3 times or maybe 200 times. The graph shows that.
As an example of this chain reaction, my map Platform Defense was an 8-players game stucked at page 200. The game was changed to a 4-players game, and the map became the second most played map in less than 24 hours. The popularity did much more than just double. The value of x doubled, but popularity is f(x).
what blizzard needs to do is make the default list show all the new maps, and let you the priority to most popular if you want... the new lobbies are whats most important. the system bliz has in there right now is just retarded.
I updated the graph to make it more symmetric and accurate. The first one was a little confusing. I believe this one is easier to understand. The concept is the same.
Yeah, the popularity system is like a snake biting its own tail.
They need to change it, but I think they already know that.
My map for example is a 8 players 30 minute game. Don't really care if is in the first page or not, I'm making it for fun, but with the actual system is almost impossible that someone just FINDS my map to play. They must search for the name of the map, so the chances to someone to play are pretty close to zero. Thinking that the chances a random person will see your map in the list (don't talk about playing it) are close to zero is pretty discouraging.
More the map is popular, more the map is played.
What we need to find is where is the exact point, which page people need to reach, to create the chain reaction which brings good maps in top of populars maps.
I'll try to set up my map to 4 players max, to see what's happening, because it can also be a coincidence. Nevertheless, in EU, "Probert the Probe" movie seems to prove your theory.
@Sntenshi: Go
Depend of the map and how big it is. There's some maps on page 3 that didn't get the reaction yet. Debates didn't get the reaction with 300 games played (35 min 8-players social game.....). However, Platform Defense got the chain reaction with about 120 games played (page 5). I don't think games with less than 50 games played can get the reaction, unless they are already popular, like what happened when Tank Defense was deleted.
No one likes to wait in lobby for a long time. Most people join a lobby, wait for 10-20 seconds, if there's no one they just leave. So, to have a reaction, you need a game that there's more games happening than people leaving.
Also, people like to play full-house. Bigger maps require more people to join the game together, so it requires a higher popularity to be able to react and grow.
@RodrigoAlves: Go
Have you considered games with more than one mode ? (appearing several times in the game list, one time per mode)
Edit : I made a 4 players version with no remake option, wait&see. Alea jacta est. =)
Srlsly... Thing that "1/number of players * k = popularity" is perfectly clear. Making easy things into complicated is not sciency at all.
Wake up and smell the coffee guys, the game industry as a whole is changing to satisfy a more casual audience. Wii, Move, Kinnect... the market testing has shown that something you can just pick up and play is much more successful than something that takes time to learn. People look at things like the Wii and say, "Hey I can do that, I know how to move my arms". Thats why things like nexus wars are so successful, "hey I know how to build buildings!" I mean it practically plays itself.
changed my line tower wars map aswell, hope that helps abit
I'm Impressed at Retribution TD being near the top and staying there. 8 players, 2hours games at times.
I say the whole popularity system should be inversed. Give those popular maps a taste of their own medicine :). Make maps with 0 popularity show up first, and if people really want to play certain popular games they can scroll down.
I know it would be just the same as now, was a joke.
But why not just remove popularity since its a huge problem. That way there would be no competition.
Option A: Add a search function, have 5 maps featured, the rest in random order. Sort of like Warcraft 3, just with featured maps. Premium maps could be decided by like feedback from players.
Option B: Instead of a crappy popularity system have Blizzard hire a staff to sit through and watch games. Have them make notes and decide which map is popular. I know this will result in crappy biased blizzard opinions, but either way blizzard will try to steal your game if they think it will be a popular idea.
I think we should decide what's popular and not Blizzard. Blizzard would never say that maps like "Kill the president" or "F* the zergling" is popular, it doesn't matter how awesome these maps can be.
I vote permaban for people complaining about the popularity system.
Its getting old people. Seriously WC3 wasnt much better Custom Join list wise.
At least it didn't totally screw over new maps as they always showed up in the list.
Also, if you want to have different modes in your map, either you split it so it shows up more than once the list, or you do it ingame, and then some people won't like it that either the host decides on that mode or that the majority forces some to play a mode they don't like -> np in warcraft 3!
lol how'd u do this? Just went, hey, here's some info for u guys, enjoy. And made a graph or something expressing it? lolz, I would totally do something like that.
Big maps have to be treated way different that smaller ones. I will detail below.
The problem with mapmakers in general is they just finish their map and release it (or release beta maps). This is esspecially bad for big maps as they are not pick up and play. Makers of big maps need to treat thier map like a product if they really want it to catch on. They should do a ton of videos, put up a professional website and make people excited to see the day when the map gets published.
In other words, treat your map like its a real game release with sneak peaks, youtube extravaganzas, closed beta tests and get a player base before your map even comes out. Yeah you might have to throw some money into it but if you want to compete with the big dogs (or should I say little dogs :P ) there will always be a price.
If you want a large map to be popular do this.
If you do this you will garner fans (if your map is worth a damn in the first place) because those beta testers will spread word as will all your hype press. This way you will have players when your map launches.
But the #1 thing you SHOULD NOT do is...
DO NOT RELEASE BETA MAPS. Get beta testers, beg if you have to but do not release a buggy map and expect it to still do well.
@Redfox777: Go
It's true, don't release beta versions of map.
Haha, my epic fail was that i released all my beta maps, people looks see all this and vomiting on my map. And now, when my map not so bad, noone play it, becouse I've already spoiled the impression before that :( . And nothing help, new video, site, people play SotiS and happy :D .
http://www.youtube.com/user/RussianMapster
@KorvinGump: Go
I am guilty of breaking all those rules too :P. But I learned and now with my new project I am going all out. Helps that I needed a website to promote my writing anyways, might as well piggyback mapmaking :P.
Anyways, I think your issue was the dota thing which, until the recent complete redesign of my map, I was falling into as well.
It is really foolhardy to try do a DoTA map verbatim. Even if you change a few mechanics. You see, LoL, HoN, Valves upcoming game and SoTiS already have that covered. It actually took my friends playing my game and saying, "Brad, its really great and fun. But man, its missing so many features that LoL and HoN have that there really is no point in playing it."
It stung but it was the truth. So I added a second to mercenary gaming's staff and we have worked out and gotten pretty far along with a map that offers features the none of the aforementioned games have. In fact there is nobody on bnet (at least not in the top 5 pages) that has a similar idea to us. So, I feel comfortable that we may be able to carve out a niche with the proper marketing.
So yeah, we should add to my list;
If it is your dream to create these maps then go for it. But don't be surprised if they get no play time.