@ Mozared or any other Mod, if you have a problem with this post _please_ take it up with Sixen before deleting/editing it. I have permission to post what I am posting ...
In Regards to Mephs
Mephs is a troll, as simple as that, on the same level as Rodrigo, and it goes without saying that by the end of this post both of them will hate me, which is a shame as I have respect for both of them as fellow map makers, but the shit they continually pull because they are so butthurt about their maps not being as popular as they think they should be, I am bloody tired of it now.
I am one of the lucky few to beta test Project TMA with a few others - including Sixen ...
Smashcraft is not the most polished map on Battle.net. It is good, I will give you that, but the a lot of Smashcraft is a mere copy of TMA (not everything - TMA is a lot more unique and has better gameplay), even though I know you have never seen TMA - I personally know TMA has been in the works for nearly a year, it even had screenshots posted of it in September last year under a different name. It is a huge project, and has been having refinements made to it since perhaps November last year? After the core gameplay was already decided upon?
I was there beta testing TMA when you released Smashcraft and the conclusion that was made is that it was merely a coinceidence that you had released a map with some very similar ideas, as everyone who had been beta testing it was trusted when they said they did not show you. You do not have the best map, it is not the most polished map, fuck - it doesn't even have good gameplay IMO. Yes you have had some sponsored tournies, but anyone with a few hundreds bucks can hold one. I do not like Smashcraft - I think it is one of the better polished maps on Starcraft at this moment - but it is no where near as polished as some unreleased maps - not just this Project TMA. There are many maps which have never been given a sneak peak to the public, that people have no idea exists, TMA was one of them up until whenever the images were posted.
I know we didn't beta test for about 2-3 weeks because of Patch 1.3 "breaking" Project TMA. It took a bloody long time to fix ... and I actually feel really bad about this, because it was told that it was going into Open Beta on the 2nd of April, but due to the Patch it got postponed. If you notice carefully at the dates this would have been at the "peak" of the popularity of guessing what TMA was, and it sucks, it absolutely sucks out the balls, that the Patch broke the map, and we had to wait and wait for it to get fixed. It was something beyond everyone's control, TMA was not the only map to be broken, there are tonnes of them that have all had to get fixed.
Sixen is not behind this project, he never was, and I highly doubt he will ever be behind a huge Sc2 project simply because he doesn't have the time. How can he find the time to make a map when he is so busy running the community? Icefrog in Dota does not run the community, he is too busy with Dota, he has people to run the community for him.
Your map was featured on SEA, you should be happy instead of ditching the SEA server and crying afoul cause you didn't get your precious NA. Smashcraft was not that innovative - its only strong point was that it was released before TMA, if it was the other way around Smashcraft would have never stood a chance, it sucks mate but it has to be said. You are not the only person who can do voiceovers, nor are you the only person who can do custom UI and mechanics. I know from the screenshots posted 9 odd months ago that TMA was the first map to have custom UI (including custom Command Card panels) before Helral posted his tutorial about CCs and before we were given Sc2 Layout files to play with. Yes without a doubt it was Helral that discovered the panel trick, and he is the Godfather of Starcraft II UI - so I am not trying to take credit off him.
I presume you mean 'Pyro' by saying that they copied the hero from you. Mate ... srsly? wtf ... Pyro is the most common name ever for a fire character, stop being so butthurt. When you released Pyro they were like wtf ... you copied TMA, but then again, Pyro is such a common name (and none of the abilities are anywhere near yours) they were like ... let sleeping dogs lie.
Smashcraft will never reach the success of Dota, no Sc2 map will - because Sc2 is a closed platform, it is protected by the Battle.net login. You cannot play Sc2 on Garena, or any other custom server, therefore people have to buy Sc2 and trust me, especially within the chinese dota community, its all pirated Wc3 software. You - Mephs - without a doubt know the creators of TMA, and are friendly with them, just because they havn't opened their mouths and said hey, I am behind TMA, you attack their map? Seriously ... what are they meant to think about you?
Concerning TMA Beta Test
To everyone else all I can say is the map is coming, it sucks it is about 2-3 weeks behind because of Patch 1.3 but there was nothing anyone could do and no one saw it coming. It will be released when it is released - and I know that is coming soon and I feel really sorry that you guys have been fucked around, waiting to see what this project is without a word from the creators. It is one of those things that happen, I guess the more you try to plan things perfectly the more likely god is going to throw a spanner into the engine.
It is a bloody awesome project, hopefully you guys will be amazed - I know that they are looking for more beta testers atm, expanding the pool to see what new players who never played the game before think about it. So it might be prudent to show some interest and post in this thread "Hey I want to beta test" or something along those lines ...
As I said, I have permission to post everything I have ... relax guys. :)
@ Mozared or any other Mod, if you have a problem with this post _please_ take it up with Sixen before deleting/editing it. I have permission to post what I am posting ... In Regards to Mephs
You're not flaming anyone and you're actually discussing TMA (ironically enough), so I'm not fussed anyway. It's not the constant discussion I mind, it's the thoughtless flaming I'm trying to see gone. That and the off-topicness that occurs with it.
And i'd like to beta test once the time has come ;)
Also, with soon do you mean the "couple of days" soon, "couple of weeks" soon, or blizzard soon? (Blizzard soon = Between now and the end of time)
If you're publishing in the EU as well, I'd put it on the definite map list for Map Night and can get some tests going (this friday we peaked at 24 players)
I'll try it when it comes out, but to me it sounds like a lot of hype. I should probably also mention that I am a solo designer on a map that takes an incredible amount of time, effort, and being spread too thin on too many skills (audio, visual, design, terrain, balance) I have to do everything by myself. None of which I'm a seasoned pro at. I can however arrange these all in a way that's aesthetically pleasing to the best of my ability.
I don't have a team working on this. In either case, you'll be surprised what's coming in 2.0. A lot of gameplay improvements are on the way. Pretty much 99% of the gripes with Smashcraft that people were having are being addressed.
But to follow up, what are some of the problems you had, since I'm looking for as many ways to improve the game as I can, and I will add your comments to my list for evaluation. I think its way too early to cross Smashcraft off as a contender ;P
Now im a bit interested, even though im doubtful....I do not really like how you say its gona be superior in everyway to smascraft. Smashcraft is a great game and there is already stand alone game bloodline champpions (which I havent played). But it seemed to be quite polished stand alone game and now I feel like you are trying to top everything in sc2...I do not think its that simple.
If you made dota 2 in sc2. I really wouldnt be interested. Even tough it might look good, I wonder what can there be so different from other games that makes you wana play TMA.
I would lol if it would be something with WASD keys and then we would just suffer terrible terrible lagg :D.
Long time spend on a game does not automatically equal a great game. So I would really like to see proof to all this big talking.
Also im kinda proud how my comment made mephs go all crazy about this :D (maybe it wasnt me, but I like to think that. Its more hilarious that way :) )
Since Mephs has taken over and thinks TMA will be direct competition against his map on the fifth page, last time I checked it was there maybe it's moved up, I will create a new thread like someone else suggested. Can the mods please move this to off topic or something now?
In Regards to Mephs
Mephs is a troll, as simple as that, on the same level as Rodrigo, and it goes without saying that by the end of this post both of them will hate me, which is a shame as I have respect for both of them as fellow map makers, but the shit they continually pull because they are so butthurt about their maps not being as popular as they think they should be, I am bloody tired of it now.
I am one of the lucky few to beta test Project TMA with a few others - including Sixen ...
Smashcraft is not the most polished map on Battle.net. It is good, I will give you that, but the a lot of Smashcraft is a mere copy of TMA (not everything - TMA is a lot more unique and has better gameplay), even though I know you have never seen TMA - I personally know TMA has been in the works for nearly a year, it even had screenshots posted of it in September last year under a different name. It is a huge project, and has been having refinements made to it since perhaps November last year? After the core gameplay was already decided upon?
I was there beta testing TMA when you released Smashcraft and the conclusion that was made is that it was merely a coinceidence that you had released a map with some very similar ideas, as everyone who had been beta testing it was trusted when they said they did not show you. You do not have the best map, it is not the most polished map, fuck - it doesn't even have good gameplay IMO. Yes you have had some sponsored tournies, but anyone with a few hundreds bucks can hold one. I do not like Smashcraft - I think it is one of the better polished maps on Starcraft at this moment - but it is no where near as polished as some unreleased maps - not just this Project TMA. There are many maps which have never been given a sneak peak to the public, that people have no idea exists, TMA was one of them up until whenever the images were posted.
I know we didn't beta test for about 2-3 weeks because of Patch 1.3 "breaking" Project TMA. It took a bloody long time to fix ... and I actually feel really bad about this, because it was told that it was going into Open Beta on the 2nd of April, but due to the Patch it got postponed. If you notice carefully at the dates this would have been at the "peak" of the popularity of guessing what TMA was, and it sucks, it absolutely sucks out the balls, that the Patch broke the map, and we had to wait and wait for it to get fixed. It was something beyond everyone's control, TMA was not the only map to be broken, there are tonnes of them that have all had to get fixed.
Sixen is not behind this project, he never was, and I highly doubt he will ever be behind a huge Sc2 project simply because he doesn't have the time. How can he find the time to make a map when he is so busy running the community? Icefrog in Dota does not run the community, he is too busy with Dota, he has people to run the community for him.
Your map was featured on SEA, you should be happy instead of ditching the SEA server and crying afoul cause you didn't get your precious NA. Smashcraft was not that innovative - its only strong point was that it was released before TMA, if it was the other way around Smashcraft would have never stood a chance, it sucks mate but it has to be said. You are not the only person who can do voiceovers, nor are you the only person who can do custom UI and mechanics. I know from the screenshots posted 9 odd months ago that TMA was the first map to have custom UI (including custom Command Card panels) before Helral posted his tutorial about CCs and before we were given Sc2 Layout files to play with. Yes without a doubt it was Helral that discovered the panel trick, and he is the Godfather of Starcraft II UI - so I am not trying to take credit off him.
I presume you mean 'Pyro' by saying that they copied the hero from you. Mate ... srsly? wtf ... Pyro is the most common name ever for a fire character, stop being so butthurt. When you released Pyro they were like wtf ... you copied TMA, but then again, Pyro is such a common name (and none of the abilities are anywhere near yours) they were like ... let sleeping dogs lie.
Smashcraft will never reach the success of Dota, no Sc2 map will - because Sc2 is a closed platform, it is protected by the Battle.net login. You cannot play Sc2 on Garena, or any other custom server, therefore people have to buy Sc2 and trust me, especially within the chinese dota community, its all pirated Wc3 software. You - Mephs - without a doubt know the creators of TMA, and are friendly with them, just because they havn't opened their mouths and said hey, I am behind TMA, you attack their map? Seriously ... what are they meant to think about you?
Concerning TMA Beta Test
To everyone else all I can say is the map is coming, it sucks it is about 2-3 weeks behind because of Patch 1.3 but there was nothing anyone could do and no one saw it coming. It will be released when it is released - and I know that is coming soon and I feel really sorry that you guys have been fucked around, waiting to see what this project is without a word from the creators. It is one of those things that happen, I guess the more you try to plan things perfectly the more likely god is going to throw a spanner into the engine.
It is a bloody awesome project, hopefully you guys will be amazed - I know that they are looking for more beta testers atm, expanding the pool to see what new players who never played the game before think about it. So it might be prudent to show some interest and post in this thread "Hey I want to beta test" or something along those lines ...
As I said, I have permission to post everything I have ... relax guys. :)
You're not flaming anyone and you're actually discussing TMA (ironically enough), so I'm not fussed anyway. It's not the constant discussion I mind, it's the thoughtless flaming I'm trying to see gone. That and the off-topicness that occurs with it.
@DogmaiSEA: Go
Finally an informative post. Thanks!
And i'd like to beta test once the time has come ;)
Also, with soon do you mean the "couple of days" soon, "couple of weeks" soon, or blizzard soon? (Blizzard soon = Between now and the end of time)
If you're publishing in the EU as well, I'd put it on the definite map list for Map Night and can get some tests going (this friday we peaked at 24 players)
Ask your dark masters for a more interesting sneak peek :P
@Dogmai: TL'DR
I'll try it when it comes out, but to me it sounds like a lot of hype. I should probably also mention that I am a solo designer on a map that takes an incredible amount of time, effort, and being spread too thin on too many skills (audio, visual, design, terrain, balance) I have to do everything by myself. None of which I'm a seasoned pro at. I can however arrange these all in a way that's aesthetically pleasing to the best of my ability.
I don't have a team working on this. In either case, you'll be surprised what's coming in 2.0. A lot of gameplay improvements are on the way. Pretty much 99% of the gripes with Smashcraft that people were having are being addressed.
But to follow up, what are some of the problems you had, since I'm looking for as many ways to improve the game as I can, and I will add your comments to my list for evaluation. I think its way too early to cross Smashcraft off as a contender ;P
Now im a bit interested, even though im doubtful....I do not really like how you say its gona be superior in everyway to smascraft. Smashcraft is a great game and there is already stand alone game bloodline champpions (which I havent played). But it seemed to be quite polished stand alone game and now I feel like you are trying to top everything in sc2...I do not think its that simple.
If you made dota 2 in sc2. I really wouldnt be interested. Even tough it might look good, I wonder what can there be so different from other games that makes you wana play TMA.
I would lol if it would be something with WASD keys and then we would just suffer terrible terrible lagg :D.
Long time spend on a game does not automatically equal a great game. So I would really like to see proof to all this big talking.
Also im kinda proud how my comment made mephs go all crazy about this :D (maybe it wasnt me, but I like to think that. Its more hilarious that way :) )
@Mephs: Go Just to be cautious, get some sort of surprise update for smashcraft ready in preparation for TMA coming out. Competition is always good.
Since Mephs has taken over and thinks TMA will be direct competition against his map on the fifth page, last time I checked it was there maybe it's moved up, I will create a new thread like someone else suggested. Can the mods please move this to off topic or something now?
we'll just keep it locked, but leave it here so people can read through.
Use this thread from now on.