Well, gotta disagree with that. For Sc2 the Editor is no bonus anymore.
They actively advertised the editor and it's features as a selling
point. Makes it part of the package, imo.
I don't recall seeing any commercials where they advertise, specifically, the Editor. Yes I am sure in interviews they make various statements about it and the features, etc. But I would definitely say it was not a huge selling point. I mean, come on, it's Starcraft, and it's Blizzard. Sold right there.
Just look at the Diablo series. It has no editor and yet it sells, and Diablo 3 will sell big time. With absolutely no editor.
Really though, what's the percentage of consumers that are actually interested in the Editor? Probably not as high as you think. Compare how many copies SC2 sold to the amount of users in this forum for example, or even compare it to the number of active SC2 players on Bnet...
That's not to say the Editor has nothing to do with some sales. It definitely is a feature of all their RTS now. It's something that we have come used to having. If they were to just take it away, there would be an outbreak, because simply put, that's just part of Blizzard's RTS games from WC2 onward. A lot of people who still play SC2 after campaign stay because of the Editor and custom maps. You would still buy it if there wasn't, let's be honest, how many games do you buy, play them once and then never play again? Look at console games, now thats a ripoff.
Basically my point was we should be thankful for anything we get. They really shouldn't even support their Editor, it really should just be a bonus. But they are choosing to help us out. Granted, slowly, but for free. Starcraft is mostly a eSport game now so the fact they are putting any effort into the Editor should be enough for anyone who bought the game, a game which could sell just for the name, single player, and melee (eSport) alone.
But there are a lot of points in the OP's post that I do agree with. Such as Battle.net feeling humanless and boring. But I think Patch 1.3 is a step in the right direction and hopefully by the expansion a lot of these problems will be fixed and forgotten.
Oh and Blizzard Allstars will come, and no, Blizzard would never ban maps for that reason. :P That's not to say they won't feature their own maps, of course. Haha.
& until Blizzard starts charging extra for their games with Editor's included, then I would consider it a bonus.
Hmm that post about the storyline on bnet was really good. I actually agree especially with the emotional disconnect that is created due to the non linear storyline.
I don't recall seeing any commercials where they advertise, specifically, the Editor. Yes I am sure in interviews they make various statements about it and the features, etc. But I would definitely say it was not a huge selling point. I mean, come on, it's Starcraft, and it's Blizzard. Sold right there.
Cool dude writing in italic rofl
Do you even know that there will be a marketplace for modders to sell their maps once the expansion is released? At one point, when they were advertising SC2, it was almost clear they were releasing it with wings of liberty. Custom maps have definitely always been considered, it's the sole and only reason why blizzard's RTS are so far in front of others.
What do you do when you have no idea of what you're talking about? You shut the f up.
PS: The only reason why the custom maps are such a let down is because of how their popularity system cater once again to imbecile *casuals*.
What do you do when you have no idea of what you're talking about? You shut the f up.
Thanks for the cheap shot. You know what? Most of what I said is my opinion and a few facts. I do know what I am talking about. I've played games and bought games, for a very very long time. Doesn't make me an expert though but I never claimed to be one. Good job attacking my opinions instead of actually making any decent points though.
And just because a company plans to do something doesn't mean they have to. They could scrap the marketplace. They have absolutely no LEGAL oblication to do anything. Once you buy the game, you agree to THEIR terms. You know, that button you click when you agree to their terms in order to install the game. You bought the game AS IS.
And if you bought SC2 only for the marketplace, then maybe you should make your own game from scratch instead of using a FREE editor to make a profit.
Do you even know that there will be a marketplace for modders to sell their maps once the expansion is released? At one point, when they were advertising SC2, it was almost clear they were releasing it with wings of liberty.
Why, yes I did know that it was planned. But please, refer to the commercial or press release where this was announced as an official part of the game, I would love to be corrected but I am pretty sure there was no advertising of the map marketplace and it just referenced to as PLANNED.
Thanks for the cheap shot. You know what? Most of what I said is my opinion and a few facts. I do know what I am talking about. I've played games and bought games, for a very very long time. Doesn't make me an expert though but I never claimed to be one. Good job attacking my opinions instead of actually making any decent points though.
And just because a company plans to do something doesn't mean they have to. They could scrap the marketplace. They have absolutely no LEGAL oblication to do anything. Once you buy the game, you agree to THEIR terms. You know, that button you click when you agree to their terms in order to install the game. You bought the game AS IS.
And if you bought SC2 only for the marketplace, then maybe you should make your own game from scratch instead of using a FREE editor to make a profit.
Why, yes I did know that it was planned. But please, refer to the commercial or press release where this was announced as an official part of the game, I would love to be corrected but I am pretty sure there was no advertising of the map marketplace and it just referenced to as PLANNED.
This subject has beendiscussed over and over since the release of the game. I've made my points and I'm not putting out any more of my energy explaining to an imbecile who joined in november and has no idea wtf hes talking about.
Yeah my join date was in November, and yet I have more posts than you and have actually helped people on these forums. What have you done? Insulted people? Good job, feel big.
And what does a join date have to do with knowledge, opinions, or anything for that matter?
Sounds to me like you're the imbecile who can't even make one solid point about anything.
Yeah my join date was in November, and yet I have more posts than you and have actually helped people on these forums.
I've just rapidly breezed through your most recent posts and your *help* is absolutely laughable at as you haven't done shit but participate (with constant cheesy stuff) to weekly exercises or helped with utterly easy stuff.
Makes me wonder if you've ever even tried to make a map.
You're either trolling or plain blind Koronis, Bronx has resolved some of the more tedious questions on the terraining forum and has contributed to several WTE's, even aside from projects he's been working on.
That said, back off, both of you. Discussion's all good, but if you want to insult eachother or degenerate into a flamefest, go do it somewhere else.
yet because hey, just look at it, but... Bronxsy does make an extremely valid point. The reason this whole site exists, the reason YOU are here is because
Blizzard chooses to release editors
for their games in such a fashion that they're easy to learn and work with. If you really think Blizz is 'letting the modding community down' by that, go play some stuff by EA. That's not to say you can't criticize what they're doing if you fear they might be taking some wrong directions in supporting us, but just as I've seen in WoW, people tend to overreact massively. You should be 'mildly annoyed' by things like that, and state that 'it might be better if they do X'. Not that THE COMMUNITY IS DEAD and BLIZZARD KILLED IT and KOTICK IS SATAN INCARNATE.
You should read it, it's long winded, but... Thanks for admitting you didn't.
<3 blizz for still releasing galaxy in such a hard/awful marketplace
What Mozared said. That and consider yourself warned. This is to say that if you(or anyone for that matter) cant bring a level-headed attitude into a discussion without the need to flame/attack, I suggest you should not bother at all or you might find yourself banned from this community. Lets all play nice.
It's been one. freaking. year. And blizzard is getting hammered for not doing a vastly better job at launch than they ever did after years of work on any of their other games. *cries*
You yourself pointed out that it took many years for Warcraft III's editor to get to the point where it was highly polished, and Blizz was smaller then (and thus could move faster and push more changes out). Give it 3 or so years, and we'll get everything we need.
Sheen has probably lived more in a year than i will my entire life, and the dude is like twice my age. I also like to party.
Stupid like a fox.
edit: I probably shouldn't bump my own ramblings without actually saying something tangible. Little bit of drama coming from this write up, here and on reddit. A lot of good counter arguments have been made. My memory of early warcraft isn't the best and to be fair the mod tools weren't hot shyt then either. But I do believe things are different now, there was an expectation that blizzard didn't meet and a lot of free talent was lost because of it, and some lofty game developers a bit disappointed. Just trying to shed some light on the situation in these parts, i think we could all agree things could be better.
Sheen has probably lived more in a year than i will my entire life, and the dude is like twice my age. I also like to party.
Stupid like a fox.
edit: I probably shouldn't bump my own ramblings without actually saying something tangible. Little bit of drama coming from this write up, here and on reddit. A lot of good counter arguments have been made. My memory of early warcraft isn't the best and to be fair the mod tools weren't hot shyt then either. But I do believe things are different now, there was an expectation that blizzard didn't meet and a lot of free talent was lost because of it, and some lofty game developers a bit disappointed. Just trying to shed some light on the situation in these parts, i think we could all agree things could be better.
I wholeheartedly agree: "expectation..not met", they never had pimped to mapmakers like this before (of course all is fair in marketing and advertising (lol shouldn't be but it is getting worse all around) ... blizz went on extensively on it this time, maybe too far to not be expected to deliver...
We should take their reasoning into account: how to give without "making the wrong step", but only up to a "distinctive" point.
Many things are not good / up to retail standards and while it can be argued that "it's still a wip" and being retailed in the blossoming "dwld games" era...
120 bucks (2sc2 copies) implies that galaxy should work as they say it does... particularly the compulsory patching experience should be less cold and bitter.
So while i feel the op rant is not presentable (indeed counterproductive customer lobbying),
(if we were to apply scbw standards to sc2 today)
saying that galaxy has not delivered is fine by me, it's what i think too.
The removal of local hosting is the most disgusting part of it in my opinion, especially since they never even mention it. In order to use any custom content in multiplayer, you must upload it to their servers and subject it to their restrictions. You can't even get around the size limit with a downloaded SEMPQ (as a group of us did for a while in WC3, about 300 MB of assets for a custom map) without the risk of being banned. Similarly you can't use a utility to remove the forced latency that is destructive to WASD and other custom control schemes.
Almost a whole year later, I still think Iskatumesk's concerns about local hosting still hold weight. I think the only hope for it (and therefore LAN as well) is if Blizzard abandons the map marketplace, since that's likely the main reason they don't want us hosting (possibly "premium content") maps without their permission.
I'm a little late on this, but this is exactly what pisses me off the most as well. If something is killing the modding scene, it's the way they force people into their popularity contest, not to mention the ridiculous restrictions. It's like people are making maps that they think will be popular instead of maps they want to make. I kind of hope they're just waiting until the expansion to sell us local hosting. Probably not, but I'd be happy and disgusted at the same time (I'm already disgusted). It's such a shame, Starcraft 2 could easily have been Blizzard's best game yet.
EDIT: That's a pretty great post by Iskatumesk, he said it better than anyone ever could. I read it during the beta, but I refused to believe it because I didn't want to believe it. Even after the release I was thinking that in a month or two they'll actually finish the game and everything'll be fine. God I'm so angry right now.
I don't recall seeing any commercials where they advertise, specifically, the Editor. Yes I am sure in interviews they make various statements about it and the features, etc. But I would definitely say it was not a huge selling point. I mean, come on, it's Starcraft, and it's Blizzard. Sold right there.
Just look at the Diablo series. It has no editor and yet it sells, and Diablo 3 will sell big time. With absolutely no editor.
Really though, what's the percentage of consumers that are actually interested in the Editor? Probably not as high as you think. Compare how many copies SC2 sold to the amount of users in this forum for example, or even compare it to the number of active SC2 players on Bnet...
That's not to say the Editor has nothing to do with some sales. It definitely is a feature of all their RTS now. It's something that we have come used to having. If they were to just take it away, there would be an outbreak, because simply put, that's just part of Blizzard's RTS games from WC2 onward. A lot of people who still play SC2 after campaign stay because of the Editor and custom maps. You would still buy it if there wasn't, let's be honest, how many games do you buy, play them once and then never play again? Look at console games, now thats a ripoff.
Basically my point was we should be thankful for anything we get. They really shouldn't even support their Editor, it really should just be a bonus. But they are choosing to help us out. Granted, slowly, but for free. Starcraft is mostly a eSport game now so the fact they are putting any effort into the Editor should be enough for anyone who bought the game, a game which could sell just for the name, single player, and melee (eSport) alone.
But there are a lot of points in the OP's post that I do agree with. Such as Battle.net feeling humanless and boring. But I think Patch 1.3 is a step in the right direction and hopefully by the expansion a lot of these problems will be fixed and forgotten.
Oh and Blizzard Allstars will come, and no, Blizzard would never ban maps for that reason. :P That's not to say they won't feature their own maps, of course. Haha.
& until Blizzard starts charging extra for their games with Editor's included, then I would consider it a bonus.
@Tolkfan: Go
Hmm that post about the storyline on bnet was really good. I actually agree especially with the emotional disconnect that is created due to the non linear storyline.
You heard it here first, folks. Mozared says Blizzard killed the community and Kotick is Satan! Somebody update the wiki!
Cool dude writing in italic rofl
Do you even know that there will be a marketplace for modders to sell their maps once the expansion is released? At one point, when they were advertising SC2, it was almost clear they were releasing it with wings of liberty. Custom maps have definitely always been considered, it's the sole and only reason why blizzard's RTS are so far in front of others.
What do you do when you have no idea of what you're talking about? You shut the f up.
PS: The only reason why the custom maps are such a let down is because of how their popularity system cater once again to imbecile *casuals*.
@Koronis: Go
Yeah thanks, it's not hard. Put two slashes in front of your text for italic text. Pretty genius, eh?
Thanks for the cheap shot. You know what? Most of what I said is my opinion and a few facts. I do know what I am talking about. I've played games and bought games, for a very very long time. Doesn't make me an expert though but I never claimed to be one. Good job attacking my opinions instead of actually making any decent points though.
And just because a company plans to do something doesn't mean they have to. They could scrap the marketplace. They have absolutely no LEGAL oblication to do anything. Once you buy the game, you agree to THEIR terms. You know, that button you click when you agree to their terms in order to install the game. You bought the game AS IS.
And if you bought SC2 only for the marketplace, then maybe you should make your own game from scratch instead of using a FREE editor to make a profit.
Why, yes I did know that it was planned. But please, refer to the commercial or press release where this was announced as an official part of the game, I would love to be corrected but I am pretty sure there was no advertising of the map marketplace and it just referenced to as PLANNED.
This subject has been discussed
overand over since the release of the game. I've made my points and I'm not putting out any more of my energy explaining to an imbecile who joined in november and has no idea wtf hes talking about.srstrolling@Koronis: Go
Yeah my join date was in November, and yet I have more posts than you and have actually helped people on these forums. What have you done? Insulted people? Good job, feel big.
And what does a join date have to do with knowledge, opinions, or anything for that matter?
Sounds to me like you're the imbecile who can't even make one solid point about anything.
So keep on trucking big man, see if I care.
I've just rapidly breezed through your most recent posts and your *help* is absolutely laughable at as you haven't done shit but participate (with constant cheesy stuff) to weekly exercises or helped with utterly easy stuff.
Makes me wonder if you've ever even tried to make a map.
So N please
You're either trolling or plain blind Koronis, Bronx has resolved some of the more tedious questions on the terraining forum and has contributed to several WTE's, even aside from projects he's been working on.
That said, back off, both of you. Discussion's all good, but if you want to insult eachother or degenerate into a flamefest, go do it somewhere else.
You should read it, it's long winded, but... Thanks for admitting you didn't.
<3 blizz for still releasing galaxy in such a hard/awful marketplace
<3 blizz passionate people/customers
Still ... f..k no lan :)
@Koronis: Go
What Mozared said. That and consider yourself warned. This is to say that if you(or anyone for that matter) cant bring a level-headed attitude into a discussion without the need to flame/attack, I suggest you should not bother at all or you might find yourself banned from this community. Lets all play nice.
It's been one. freaking. year. And blizzard is getting hammered for not doing a vastly better job at launch than they ever did after years of work on any of their other games. *cries*
You yourself pointed out that it took many years for Warcraft III's editor to get to the point where it was highly polished, and Blizz was smaller then (and thus could move faster and push more changes out). Give it 3 or so years, and we'll get everything we need.
Sheen? He is an idiot....
Sheen has probably lived more in a year than i will my entire life, and the dude is like twice my age. I also like to party.
Stupid like a fox.
edit: I probably shouldn't bump my own ramblings without actually saying something tangible. Little bit of drama coming from this write up, here and on reddit. A lot of good counter arguments have been made. My memory of early warcraft isn't the best and to be fair the mod tools weren't hot shyt then either. But I do believe things are different now, there was an expectation that blizzard didn't meet and a lot of free talent was lost because of it, and some lofty game developers a bit disappointed. Just trying to shed some light on the situation in these parts, i think we could all agree things could be better.
@crazyfingers619: Go
Smart people party without letting it ruin their reputation, career, and relationships.
Success is subjective.
@crazyfingers619: Go
There are plenty of ways to objectively determine success. The importance you place on said methods is subjective.
I wholeheartedly agree: "expectation..not met", they never had pimped to mapmakers like this before (of course all is fair in marketing and advertising (lol shouldn't be but it is getting worse all around) ... blizz went on extensively on it this time, maybe too far to not be expected to deliver...
We should take their reasoning into account: how to give without "making the wrong step", but only up to a "distinctive" point.
Many things are not good / up to retail standards and while it can be argued that "it's still a wip" and being retailed in the blossoming "dwld games" era...
120 bucks (2sc2 copies) implies that galaxy should work as they say it does... particularly the compulsory patching experience should be less cold and bitter.
So while i feel the op rant is not presentable (indeed counterproductive customer lobbying),
(if we were to apply scbw standards to sc2 today)
saying that galaxy has not delivered is fine by me, it's what i think too.
I'm a little late on this, but this is exactly what pisses me off the most as well. If something is killing the modding scene, it's the way they force people into their popularity contest, not to mention the ridiculous restrictions. It's like people are making maps that they think will be popular instead of maps they want to make. I kind of hope they're just waiting until the expansion to sell us local hosting. Probably not, but I'd be happy and disgusted at the same time (I'm already disgusted). It's such a shame, Starcraft 2 could easily have been Blizzard's best game yet.
EDIT: That's a pretty great post by Iskatumesk, he said it better than anyone ever could. I read it during the beta, but I refused to believe it because I didn't want to believe it. Even after the release I was thinking that in a month or two they'll actually finish the game and everything'll be fine. God I'm so angry right now.
- karlprojektorinski AKA Jones