Lobbying in a chat channel takes 5 minutes at most too. The main disparity between the two is during late-night games, when you could still fill up unknown WC3 custom maps but have a harder time filling up unknown SC2 custom maps due to the lack of people in chat channels.
There is more. People in the "Looking for Custom Games" channel mostly are looking for.... melee games. It's so hilarious and sad at the same time that I can't even decide if I shall laugh or cry about it. Since you can easily see the most popular maps in the popularity list, it makes almost no sense to look for people in the chat channels. That's why it takes so long to fill up your own maps if they are not at the top of the list.
On the other hand you can select people who are really interested in your type of map and can avoid having douchebags who leave after the first minutes. One way or the other, there are still issues. But we already know about that...
Source? Can't imagine anyone at Blizzard would say that. Sounds like that 640 RAM quote from Bill Gates all over again?
It was said by accident it was either a starcraft 2 annoucement, But I JUST realized everything, Warcraft 4... LAWL, all teh leaks, weren't for Warcraft RTS4, it was for WoW 4th Expansion, nearly all the leaks match up LOL
Judging from mozareds posts I wonder if he even plays maps in sc2 or has ever tried hosting your own game.
And not to mention wc3...
My previous post should answer both of those questions, so how about you either add something useful to the discussion or don't post? I've no problems talking stuff over, but your post is simply an ill-supported attack that serves no real purpose other than you showing you disagree with my statements.
Yeah, Mozared, if you want to play a small map the majority doesn't like, you are unable. You must gather at a channel and call people.
In W3, I could play random maps all the time without caring about calling people inside. I can't do that in SC2, which pretty much ruins the experience for me. Yeah, there's that crappy Fun or Not thing, but it gets you into a random map without letting you select it. I want a random list I can refresh from where I choose the map I want to play.
I don't give a crap about a majority that plays only just one map. I hated DotA because it was all over my screen when I wanted to play W3, and I hate the popularity system because now I have 10 maps all over my screen for the entire goddamn time.
Not everyone wants to play random sh1t maps. Maybe in those days, when you were young and had nothing better to do but waste time like that.
Like minded people looking for `random` custom maps do have that option in Sc2, albeit through varied page numbers and the `fun/not fun` thing. It may not seem as effective or popular, but I think its only because people dont want random and are not that interested in trying new things. I agree the scope and visibility for new maps could be better improved, but still, you cant have unrealistic expectations from the system.
Majority(importance) > Minority. Thats life and will always be the case. Nobody gives a crap about you(minority).
There is more. People in the "Looking for Custom Games" channel mostly are looking for.... melee games. It's so hilarious and sad at the same time that I can't even decide if I shall laugh or cry about it. Since you can easily see the most popular maps in the popularity list, it makes almost no sense to look for people in the chat channels. That's why it takes so long to fill up your own maps if they are not at the top of the list.
And that's also unchanged since wc3. If you want players for your game, you didn't look on the generic Blizzard channels - You looked mostly on your clan channel. Yes, clans do not exists in sc2 as in the sense of having the tag like in wc3, but it shouldn't prevent you from joining a clan or group, and ask people in those channels. Blizzard's official channels are usually silly, and has ever been due to the people there.
Mozared is right. Those who don't agree with him have not filled not known map recently with public players in WCIII with requiring more than few players.
It was quite while ago when random not known map was host-able in WCIII and players played them. Nowadays however you can't get not known map really played even if you use hosting bot with a good internet connection. Years ago it was easily possible but yeah, that was years ago.
And that's also unchanged since wc3. If you want players for your game, you didn't look on the generic Blizzard channels - You looked mostly on your clan channel. Yes, clans do not exists in sc2 as in the sense of having the tag like in wc3, but it shouldn't prevent you from joining a clan or group, and ask people in those channels. Blizzard's official channels are usually silly, and has ever been due to the people there.
I'm just trying to find solutions, and even here we can't find one. I'm aware that chat channels haven't changed much...
Yeah, Mozared, if you want to play a small map the majority doesn't
like, you are unable. You must gather at a channel and call people.
In W3, I could play random maps all the time without caring about
calling people inside. I can't do that in SC2, which pretty much ruins
the experience for me. Yeah, there's that crappy Fun or Not thing, but
it gets you into a random map without letting you select it. I want a
random list I can refresh from where I choose the map I want to play.
You're overvalueing Warcraft 3. I'll be the first to admit that playing
a non-popular map was easier in Warcraft 3, but it's not like you could
simply host unknown map X, fill it up within a minute and go. I happen
to have a lot of experience with this because it's exactly the way I
hosted my own AoS-style map. If people didn't know the name, it'd easily
take 5 minutes to fill up the map, and even then, out of the 40 games
I've played inside my own map I think I only had like 15 games where I
didn't have one, two or three leavers within 2 minutes into the game.
Lobbying in a chat channel takes 5 minutes at most too. The main
disparity between the two is during late-night games, when you could
still fill up unknown WC3 custom maps but have a harder time filling up
unknown SC2 custom maps due to the lack of people in chat channels.
When I want to play random maps I want to play random maps. I don't want to type random names in the chat channel, and see if I get any luck finding a channel of a random map I could like to play.
W3 wasn't perfect, but its basic idea was. The system shows active lobbies. In SC2, this would work perfectly, because access isn't by lobby name, it's by map category, so it wouldn't suffer from the "9/10 dota on screen" syndrome. With this system, I would get a list of random maps. I check their minimap and description, and then join if I think they could be cool.
Judging from mozareds posts I wonder if he even plays maps in sc2 or has
ever tried hosting your own game.
And not to mention wc3...
Mozared knows what he is talking about.
Quote from Lonami: Go
Yeah, Mozared, if you want to play a small map the majority doesn't
like, you are unable. You must gather at a channel and call people.
In W3, I could play random maps all the time without caring about
calling people inside. I can't do that in SC2, which pretty much ruins
the experience for me. Yeah, there's that crappy Fun or Not thing, but
it gets you into a random map without letting you select it. I want a
random list I can refresh from where I choose the map I want to play.
I don't give a crap about a majority that plays only just one map. I
hated DotA because it was all over my screen when I wanted to play W3,
and I hate the popularity system because now I have 10 maps all over my
screen for the entire goddamn time.
Not everyone wants to play random sh1t maps. Maybe in those days, when
you were young and had nothing better to do but waste time like that.
Like minded people looking for `random` custom maps do have that option
in Sc2, albeit through varied page numbers and the `fun/not fun` thing.
It may not seem as effective or popular, but I think its only because
people dont want random and are not that interested in trying new
things. I agree the scope and visibility for new maps could be better
improved, but still, you cant have unrealistic expectations from the
system.
Majority(importance) > Minority. Thats life and will always be the case.
Nobody gives a crap about you(minority).
I never said the popularity system should be removed, so stop with your nonsense and read my post more carefully.
I guess, since the majority is that much more important, then the game is better, nope? SC2 custom games community is so awesome and so big and so better than W3's, no?
Ah that's just it. People aren't mapping because people can't play those new maps. Plus most mappers are from war3, this isn't newbie war3 era when people don't know what they are doing. A lot of mappers are already experts.
Also there's a huge fallacy that the haters ares a loud minority voice. In reality, its the minority that supports the system. Its the minority that's playing page 1 maps. The majority aren't playing because they CAN'T!
We already have lots better maps than page 1 stuffs. You just can't play them 'easily' like in real b.net. And as such, a mega map like DOTA which took years of war3 map evolution to achieve won't ever appear for sc2. So in the end, war3 maps will always be better than sc2 stuffs.
Wait, mega map like Dota won't appear for sc2? Well, what about Sotis? It's a 100% dota-type map.
All that I see is people are not happy that they're maps are not played. I'm not saying all of creators are so selfish, I'm saying, that a lot of people are discouraged by this popularity system, because, when they do maps, they want to see these maps succesful, popular.
Wait, mega map like Dota won't appear for sc2? Well, what about Sotis? It's a 100% dota-type map.
I think you're mistaking what he's saying. Sandround seems to be talking about a 'mega map like the original DOTA'. As in a map that evolves out of a couple of different maps, then gets lots of stuff right and becomes a whole new genre by itself. Not just "a map of the DOTA genre".
I think you're mistaking what he's saying. Sandround seems to be talking about a 'mega map like the original DOTA'. As in a map that evolves out of a couple of different maps, then gets lots of stuff right and becomes a whole new genre by itself. Not just "a map of the DOTA genre".
Starcraft 2 has a HUGE oppertunity to make new genres, But Blizzard has messed up the button controls. if not for that, then it could really be amazing, maybe even remake a map of BF3 or Halo 2 or something.
I think you're mistaking what he's saying. Sandround seems to be talking about a 'mega map like the original DOTA'. As in a map that evolves out of a couple of different maps, then gets lots of stuff right and becomes a whole new genre by itself. Not just "a map of the DOTA genre".
Well, yes, maybe I am mistaken. But the thing is, that Sotis is a sc2 successor of dota from wc3. Utilizes sc2 game engine, trigger system and etc. It also feels a lot more faster than wc3s dota or LoL. For me, it actually is a "mega" map. I hate dota, almoust never play it. :( Although played LoL for some months :D
Well, yes, maybe I am mistaken. But the thing is, that Sotis is a sc2 successor of dota from wc3. Utilizes sc2 game engine, trigger system and etc. It also feels a lot more faster than wc3s dota or LoL. For me, it actually is a "mega" map. I hate dota, almoust never play it. :( Although played LoL for some months :D
YEah i dont know what it is about LoL but its just fun, I hate dota aswell, but I do like LoL, it has a great feel to it maybe its because you dont have to select your hero, even though you cant control your minions it makes up for it because of how it feels.
Well, yes, maybe I am mistaken. But the thing is, that Sotis is a sc2 successor of dota from wc3. Utilizes sc2 game engine, trigger system and etc. It also feels a lot more faster than wc3s dota or LoL. For me, it actually is a "mega" map. I hate dota, almoust never play it. :( Although played LoL for some months :D
YEah i dont know what it is about LoL but its just fun, I hate dota aswell, but I do like LoL, it has a great feel to it maybe its because you dont have to select your hero, even though you cant control your minions it makes up for it because of how it feels.
Hmm quite a bit of discussion since I last read/posted here...
I can't speak about WC3 Battle.net right now, and I can't speak about SC2 right now... since I play neither of these at the moment. But ultimately what I can say is I had a lot more fun both as a player and a map-creator in WC3's peak (I would say this is right after TFT came out and a period of a year after that). I prefer fantasy but maybe it was the 'feel' of WC3 too. Comparing DOTA and SOTIS is part of the same issue. WC3 just feels tighter? I can't put my thumb on it.
I am a little bit surprised with some of the posts here by people who are intelligent and that I respect. There are many of us that can produce good quality stuff and have been at the top and still are not content with Battle.net 2.0. I DO like a lot of it as I've said countless times before, but it comes down to popularity acting as a gatekeeper in the same way Apple's App Store does. I think that we can do better...
At the end of the day I think 100% of us agree we need a way to see JUST hosted games (similar to WC3), and that this system needs to be visible, not a tiny button beside popularity.
P.S. and one commonly forgotten issue lately is no lobby names. I personally don't care about this as much right now, but I used to... when making an RPG it was pretty important to me so that people could host "level 10+ only" or whatnot. There's no way game variants could take care of this.
Hmm quite a bit of discussion since I last read/posted here...
I can't speak about WC3 Battle.net right now, and I can't speak about SC2 right now... since I play neither of these at the moment. But ultimately what I can say is I had a lot more fun both as a player and a map-creator in WC3's peak (I would say this is right after TFT came out and a period of a year after that). I prefer fantasy but maybe it was the 'feel' of WC3 too. Comparing DOTA and SOTIS is part of the same issue. WC3 just feels tighter? I can't put my thumb on it.
I am a little bit surprised with some of the posts here by people who are intelligent and that I respect. There are many of us that can produce good quality stuff and have been at the top and still are not content with Battle.net 2.0. I DO like a lot of it as I've said countless times before, but it comes down to popularity acting as a gatekeeper in the same way Apple's App Store does. I think that we can do better...
At the end of the day I think 100% of us agree we need a way to see JUST hosted games (similar to WC3), and that this system needs to be visible, not a tiny button beside popularity.
P.S. and one commonly forgotten issue lately is no lobby names. I personally don't care about this as much right now, but I used to... when making an RPG it was pretty important to me so that people could host "level 10+ only" or whatnot. There's no way game variants could take care of this.
You know I just thought of something,
BEFORE I SAY THIS: I am not saying anything bad about anyones maps or ideas...
I think the problem with the feel of maps on SC2 is we as mappers are trying to make things more complex, Maybe Sc2 just needs simplicity a bit?
Just a thought, Every map out there seems like its more complicated then it needs to be
Sotis the terrain is what ruined it for me, Its like they tried to take all 10 textures in their set and put them and smear them together, And it just doesn't feel right when playing, it looks good in editor though. and it LOOKS good in game, but it FEELs awkward..
So maybe make simpler maps?
i dunno, The Popularity system is still crap though.
There is more. People in the "Looking for Custom Games" channel mostly are looking for.... melee games. It's so hilarious and sad at the same time that I can't even decide if I shall laugh or cry about it. Since you can easily see the most popular maps in the popularity list, it makes almost no sense to look for people in the chat channels. That's why it takes so long to fill up your own maps if they are not at the top of the list.
On the other hand you can select people who are really interested in your type of map and can avoid having douchebags who leave after the first minutes. One way or the other, there are still issues. But we already know about that...
It was said by accident it was either a starcraft 2 annoucement, But I JUST realized everything, Warcraft 4... LAWL, all teh leaks, weren't for Warcraft RTS4, it was for WoW 4th Expansion, nearly all the leaks match up LOL
My previous post should answer both of those questions, so how about you either add something useful to the discussion or don't post? I've no problems talking stuff over, but your post is simply an ill-supported attack that serves no real purpose other than you showing you disagree with my statements.
Mozared knows what he is talking about.
Not everyone wants to play random sh1t maps. Maybe in those days, when you were young and had nothing better to do but waste time like that.
Like minded people looking for `random` custom maps do have that option in Sc2, albeit through varied page numbers and the `fun/not fun` thing. It may not seem as effective or popular, but I think its only because people dont want random and are not that interested in trying new things. I agree the scope and visibility for new maps could be better improved, but still, you cant have unrealistic expectations from the system.
Majority(importance) > Minority. Thats life and will always be the case. Nobody gives a crap about you(minority).
And that's also unchanged since wc3. If you want players for your game, you didn't look on the generic Blizzard channels - You looked mostly on your clan channel. Yes, clans do not exists in sc2 as in the sense of having the tag like in wc3, but it shouldn't prevent you from joining a clan or group, and ask people in those channels. Blizzard's official channels are usually silly, and has ever been due to the people there.
Mozared is right. Those who don't agree with him have not filled not known map recently with public players in WCIII with requiring more than few players.
It was quite while ago when random not known map was host-able in WCIII and players played them. Nowadays however you can't get not known map really played even if you use hosting bot with a good internet connection. Years ago it was easily possible but yeah, that was years ago.
I'm just trying to find solutions, and even here we can't find one. I'm aware that chat channels haven't changed much...
When I want to play random maps I want to play random maps. I don't want to type random names in the chat channel, and see if I get any luck finding a channel of a random map I could like to play.
W3 wasn't perfect, but its basic idea was. The system shows active lobbies. In SC2, this would work perfectly, because access isn't by lobby name, it's by map category, so it wouldn't suffer from the "9/10 dota on screen" syndrome. With this system, I would get a list of random maps. I check their minimap and description, and then join if I think they could be cool.
It's the best system ever.
I never said the popularity system should be removed, so stop with your nonsense and read my post more carefully.
I guess, since the majority is that much more important, then the game is better, nope? SC2 custom games community is so awesome and so big and so better than W3's, no?
WC3 is old. (released July 2002, 1 expansion July 2003)
SC2 is new. (released July 2010, no expansion yet)
I don't remember WC3 having awesome maps when it was young either, especially not before the expansion as that opened a lot of new possibilities.
Now go back to mapping guys and SC2 can still have better maps.
@RandomNoExit: Go
Ah that's just it. People aren't mapping because people can't play those new maps. Plus most mappers are from war3, this isn't newbie war3 era when people don't know what they are doing. A lot of mappers are already experts.
Also there's a huge fallacy that the haters ares a loud minority voice. In reality, its the minority that supports the system. Its the minority that's playing page 1 maps. The majority aren't playing because they CAN'T!
We already have lots better maps than page 1 stuffs. You just can't play them 'easily' like in real b.net. And as such, a mega map like DOTA which took years of war3 map evolution to achieve won't ever appear for sc2. So in the end, war3 maps will always be better than sc2 stuffs.
SC2 mapping is already a shadow of WC3. I don't see this changing. Way to go Blizzard!
@sandround: Go
Wait, mega map like Dota won't appear for sc2? Well, what about Sotis? It's a 100% dota-type map.
All that I see is people are not happy that they're maps are not played. I'm not saying all of creators are so selfish, I'm saying, that a lot of people are discouraged by this popularity system, because, when they do maps, they want to see these maps succesful, popular.
I think you're mistaking what he's saying. Sandround seems to be talking about a 'mega map like the original DOTA'. As in a map that evolves out of a couple of different maps, then gets lots of stuff right and becomes a whole new genre by itself. Not just "a map of the DOTA genre".
Starcraft 2 has a HUGE oppertunity to make new genres, But Blizzard has messed up the button controls. if not for that, then it could really be amazing, maybe even remake a map of BF3 or Halo 2 or something.
Well, yes, maybe I am mistaken. But the thing is, that Sotis is a sc2 successor of dota from wc3. Utilizes sc2 game engine, trigger system and etc. It also feels a lot more faster than wc3s dota or LoL. For me, it actually is a "mega" map. I hate dota, almoust never play it. :( Although played LoL for some months :D
YEah i dont know what it is about LoL but its just fun, I hate dota aswell, but I do like LoL, it has a great feel to it maybe its because you dont have to select your hero, even though you cant control your minions it makes up for it because of how it feels.
YEah i dont know what it is about LoL but its just fun, I hate dota aswell, but I do like LoL, it has a great feel to it maybe its because you dont have to select your hero, even though you cant control your minions it makes up for it because of how it feels.
I'll just leave this here...
http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/project-workplace/28775-third-person-dot-a-tri-faction-public-alpha/?page=2#p27
Hmm quite a bit of discussion since I last read/posted here...
I can't speak about WC3 Battle.net right now, and I can't speak about SC2 right now... since I play neither of these at the moment. But ultimately what I can say is I had a lot more fun both as a player and a map-creator in WC3's peak (I would say this is right after TFT came out and a period of a year after that). I prefer fantasy but maybe it was the 'feel' of WC3 too. Comparing DOTA and SOTIS is part of the same issue. WC3 just feels tighter? I can't put my thumb on it.
I am a little bit surprised with some of the posts here by people who are intelligent and that I respect. There are many of us that can produce good quality stuff and have been at the top and still are not content with Battle.net 2.0. I DO like a lot of it as I've said countless times before, but it comes down to popularity acting as a gatekeeper in the same way Apple's App Store does. I think that we can do better...
At the end of the day I think 100% of us agree we need a way to see JUST hosted games (similar to WC3), and that this system needs to be visible, not a tiny button beside popularity.
P.S. and one commonly forgotten issue lately is no lobby names. I personally don't care about this as much right now, but I used to... when making an RPG it was pretty important to me so that people could host "level 10+ only" or whatnot. There's no way game variants could take care of this.
You know I just thought of something,
BEFORE I SAY THIS: I am not saying anything bad about anyones maps or ideas...
I think the problem with the feel of maps on SC2 is we as mappers are trying to make things more complex, Maybe Sc2 just needs simplicity a bit?
Just a thought, Every map out there seems like its more complicated then it needs to be
Sotis the terrain is what ruined it for me, Its like they tried to take all 10 textures in their set and put them and smear them together, And it just doesn't feel right when playing, it looks good in editor though. and it LOOKS good in game, but it FEELs awkward..
So maybe make simpler maps?
i dunno, The Popularity system is still crap though.