I just made one yesterday :( it wasnt a QQ thread though it was a thinking thread about how to "Fix" Everything... but only 3 people participated... I guess people would rather cry over spilled milk instead of cleaning it up.
I see; thanks for notifying me. I'm unsure how much map makers can actually help it though. I know melee map makers tried establishing a proper contact since forever without luck. You can't make Blizzard (or most other big companies) listen unless they want to.
@SearingChicken: Go The thing is, nobody here is supposed to clean that up. ScorpSCII pointed out things he believes were part of the problem, and all were Blizzard's fault, so how would you clean that up?
@SearingChicken: Go The thing is, nobody here is supposed to clean that up. ScorpSCII pointed out things he believes were part of the problem, and all were Blizzard's fault, so how would you clean that up?
Yeah I know, but my only last hypothesis, is blizzard doesnt know HOW to fix it.. they have run out of ideas. Think about it we are on patch 2.0.11, 7 months after the game release, by this time we should be on 2.2.0. so I think they are completely out of ideas. thats what the thread was about, it was less about what could the community do, and more of what could both the community and blizzard do to fix this mess. :) if its never even thought about then it can never be fixed.
what if blizzard's sc2 is "exactly" where it wants it to be?
"cry over spilled milk?" try so far up your .o.on that it might show a bit...
...
making maps is "x" ; making people play maps is "y" ; how does the dream ever arise? by the fact that x should precede y
in theory it does .. in fact it does not
blizzard hires people to do stuff on budget (cheap ass, slow, with emphasis on "future" developments)
blizzard sells not 1 but 3 games
blizzard still "grants access" to said games editor but limits any "opening" by withholding any "other" accesses (no possibility of outside dedicated servers for the mods produced)
consumers pay for the second game (some would argue .. all do, others would say most bought the second game.. who cares, blizzard can put it in a "win column")
3rd game coming?
is this starting to make sense? (euhhhh.. except for ew, because apparently he never gets anything i ever write.. plus he wants me to stop writing because i make him feel weird and he's not that used to feeling)
i feel it is clear that teens and young adults are the bread and butter of mapmaking
i would think that no one would trust in promises in 2013 and it is refreshing to be wrong
more power to you eivyin, your efforts and luck are a sight to behold, your loudmouth too
..
blizz has no interest in fostering trouble for its games (and future games)
blizzard needs no permission to get anything out of what "amateurs" do
blizzard needs nothing more than what "hollywood" needs
they will produce s hitty products so you will buy the next one .. it was so 25 years ago .. it is still now .. it will still be so in the next decade (new "blood" will never spurr/spawn again from their 'platforms")
i like blizz, i love mapmakers .. none the less :/ truth is easy to see/accept
because this is not 1995 blizzard, this is 2013 blizzard : a very polished product .. not what we want but what they want us to have
too long did not read: if you want peace, you don't sell weapons of mass destruction to everyone
Yeah I know, but my only last hypothesis, is blizzard doesnt know HOW to fix it.. they have run out of ideas. Think about it we are on patch 2.0.11, 7 months after the game release, by this time we should be on 2.2.0. so I think they are completely out of ideas. thats what the thread was about, it was less about what could the community do, and more of what could both the community and blizzard do to fix this mess. :) if its never even thought about then it can never be fixed.
You literally just registered didn't you? I take it your brand new?
Ok allow me to give you a quick rundown.
From WoL Beta to patch 1.3.5 a huge debate ran between the following 2 general school:
1. Those that wanted to return to Battle.net 1.0 functionality.
2. Those that wanted to try and work with the new Battle.net 2.0
If Blizzard went with either direction then they might be forgiven for failing or event possibly they might have succeeded.
But instead they went with:
3. A totally random and useless search system called "Fun or Not".
What did this accomplish? Well it did the following:
1. Revealed that Blizzard had and has no idea of what they are doing.
2. Revealed that Blizzard was not paying attention to any customer feedback. (I say any because the weight of either school should have been convincing by itself.
3. Blizzard was bull-headed enough to believe that they knew better than the community.
This was in the first half of 2011 if I recall.
So it failed. What did they do? Nothing. At all.
Then we get to something like November 2012 and we get this new 1.5 patch.
What did it accomplish?
1. It was a split between the 2 schools and had elements of both of them.
2. Showed Blizzard had taken some of our suggestions seriously.
3. Also showed how low of a priority custom mods really are for Blizzard. Since they waited nearly 2 years to release another fix of any kind while other aspects of StarCraft 2 were improved this is clearly the case.
4. It also failed. Literally because it was a mix of the two. They turned out not to be mutually supportive.
Now in no case did Blizzard visibly (if it was behind the scenes then I have some uncomfortable questions) get feedback from the community at large. In fact it would have been better for them to ask the community for layout designs. At least let the community be responsible for the failure of the layout, not some "bright boy" (has he been fired yet?) in Blizzard.
And as I already pointed out, we would love to "look towards the future". A lot of hopes and even dreams were crushed by Blizzard's decisions. But we cannot. We tried and we failed.
Only Blizzard can "look towards the future". Since they refuse to, all we can do is talk about the past.
1. Those that wanted to return to Battle.net 1.0 functionality.
And I was there, all stats wins/losses that they removed due to CASUALS made me dislike bnet 2.0 even more until they fixed it by bringing them back. Now they just need to fix Arcade.
As for the thread:
I don't know who did these maps but they are good enough:
ESL Akilon Wastes
ESL Bel'Shir Vestige
ESL Daybreak
ESL Neo Planet S
ESL Newkirk Precinct
ESL Star Station
ESL Whirlwind
If your maps are among them and affected esports, then yes it matters, if not, then Blizz still has good mapmakers to use. And I wouldn't call the maps for pro scene a 'downfall'.
Terrainers here make amazing terrains but with few kilos of doodads, it is not good for gameplay, perhaps some balance can be made
There are some things that could be done: Unranked Matchmaking, use larger pool (in every tournament a map pool cannot be too big and has 5-7 maps on average), also maps need to be learnt and exploited with all its plues and minuses during a battle.
my dear chicken :) my "rant" was not one :) (oulala you never want me ranting .. no no)
the only aggressively in it (that could make it sound like a rant) was geared towards eve and blizz, not you (and i wasn't even aggressive, :) just jealous that eve had so much time to spend on galaxy, and that blizz f cks up intentionally)
...
So.. you don't want to discuss the possibility that blizzard is doing exactly what it wants/feels is best for their strategy
mmm (geared towards fock) how can one even imagine that blizz is "out of idea" :/ lol that it will do less than it can..?
that it needs 12 year old advice
sad really
...
blizzard is doing what it wants.. but it should really invite focke for an interview, i think he deserves it (sorry couldn't help making fun, no offense meant)
The two mapmakers who won the competition and a ladder spot even had their maps completely retextured by Blizzard, without any kind of permission or notice - and to be frank, it looks like Blizzard only spent half an hour trashing their stunningly beautiful maps, that has both been in development for more than half a year. Oh and yeah, they never received their contest prizes.
@ScorpSCII: Go That is Very Sad indeed. I just looked at that thread and it appears Blizzard has responded. Is this how they treat the professional SC players, probably not. They need to get there priorities straight and get the prizes out promptly when the contest is finished. This would be understandable is they where offering a free tip to blizzcon. But they care as much as they give.
I think Yenosu was incredible looking map now it looks like a dota map.
-ESV Cloud Kingdom - Good map, I personally didn't like it balancewise or matchwise but then again I played it during WoL Infestor insta win fungal : /
-ESV Ohana - Good map but became too abused and known
-ESV Vicious - don't know it
-TPW Yeonsu - don't know it
-Crux Frost - don't know it
-DF Atlas - I think I remember it but I don't think it was anything so special
-TPW Odyssey - don't know it
-ESV Korhal Compound - I remember it last year, I think the epic matches of MvP vs Nestea from IEM Cologne, great map
-Crux Daybreak - Yeah Daybreak is nice and played
-TPW Damage Inc - dk
-TPW Concrete Dreams - dk
-TPW Artifice - dk
-TPW Silver Sands - dk
-TPW Rattlesnake - dk
-TPW Overgrown - dk
-ESV Sanshorn Mist -dk
-ESV Testbug - Nope, I think it was rather bad map...
This plus Kespa maps do not make any worse maps. SO my conclusion is: Yes they did make some nice maps but since Kespa also have nice maps, the overall result is: Tournaments do not suffer from decent maps, despite losing some mapmakers. For reference, except Redcity the maps in my previous post are decent and afaik are Kespa maps most of them.
I see; thanks for notifying me. I'm unsure how much map makers can actually help it though. I know melee map makers tried establishing a proper contact since forever without luck. You can't make Blizzard (or most other big companies) listen unless they want to.
@SearingChicken: Go The thing is, nobody here is supposed to clean that up. ScorpSCII pointed out things he believes were part of the problem, and all were Blizzard's fault, so how would you clean that up?
Yeah I know, but my only last hypothesis, is blizzard doesnt know HOW to fix it.. they have run out of ideas. Think about it we are on patch 2.0.11, 7 months after the game release, by this time we should be on 2.2.0. so I think they are completely out of ideas. thats what the thread was about, it was less about what could the community do, and more of what could both the community and blizzard do to fix this mess. :) if its never even thought about then it can never be fixed.
Hi,
sorry to rain on your rainbow
i do love when tl and mapster "collide"
what if blizzard's sc2 is "exactly" where it wants it to be?
"cry over spilled milk?" try so far up your .o.on that it might show a bit...
...
making maps is "x" ; making people play maps is "y" ; how does the dream ever arise? by the fact that x should precede y
in theory it does .. in fact it does not
blizzard hires people to do stuff on budget (cheap ass, slow, with emphasis on "future" developments)
blizzard sells not 1 but 3 games
blizzard still "grants access" to said games editor but limits any "opening" by withholding any "other" accesses (no possibility of outside dedicated servers for the mods produced)
consumers pay for the second game (some would argue .. all do, others would say most bought the second game.. who cares, blizzard can put it in a "win column")
3rd game coming?
is this starting to make sense? (euhhhh.. except for ew, because apparently he never gets anything i ever write.. plus he wants me to stop writing because i make him feel weird and he's not that used to feeling)
i feel it is clear that teens and young adults are the bread and butter of mapmaking
i would think that no one would trust in promises in 2013 and it is refreshing to be wrong
more power to you eivyin, your efforts and luck are a sight to behold, your loudmouth too
..
blizz has no interest in fostering trouble for its games (and future games)
blizzard needs no permission to get anything out of what "amateurs" do
blizzard needs nothing more than what "hollywood" needs
they will produce s hitty products so you will buy the next one .. it was so 25 years ago .. it is still now .. it will still be so in the next decade (new "blood" will never spurr/spawn again from their 'platforms")
i like blizz, i love mapmakers .. none the less :/ truth is easy to see/accept
because this is not 1995 blizzard, this is 2013 blizzard : a very polished product .. not what we want but what they want us to have
too long did not read: if you want peace, you don't sell weapons of mass destruction to everyone
@houndofbaskerville: Go
Was your pointless rant for Eiviyn or myself?
You literally just registered didn't you? I take it your brand new?
Ok allow me to give you a quick rundown.
From WoL Beta to patch 1.3.5 a huge debate ran between the following 2 general school:
1. Those that wanted to return to Battle.net 1.0 functionality.
2. Those that wanted to try and work with the new Battle.net 2.0
If Blizzard went with either direction then they might be forgiven for failing or event possibly they might have succeeded.
But instead they went with:
3. A totally random and useless search system called "Fun or Not".
What did this accomplish? Well it did the following:
1. Revealed that Blizzard had and has no idea of what they are doing.
2. Revealed that Blizzard was not paying attention to any customer feedback. (I say any because the weight of either school should have been convincing by itself.
3. Blizzard was bull-headed enough to believe that they knew better than the community.
This was in the first half of 2011 if I recall.
So it failed. What did they do? Nothing. At all.
Then we get to something like November 2012 and we get this new 1.5 patch.
What did it accomplish?
1. It was a split between the 2 schools and had elements of both of them.
2. Showed Blizzard had taken some of our suggestions seriously.
3. Also showed how low of a priority custom mods really are for Blizzard. Since they waited nearly 2 years to release another fix of any kind while other aspects of StarCraft 2 were improved this is clearly the case.
4. It also failed. Literally because it was a mix of the two. They turned out not to be mutually supportive.
Now in no case did Blizzard visibly (if it was behind the scenes then I have some uncomfortable questions) get feedback from the community at large. In fact it would have been better for them to ask the community for layout designs. At least let the community be responsible for the failure of the layout, not some "bright boy" (has he been fired yet?) in Blizzard.
And as I already pointed out, we would love to "look towards the future". A lot of hopes and even dreams were crushed by Blizzard's decisions. But we cannot. We tried and we failed.
Only Blizzard can "look towards the future". Since they refuse to, all we can do is talk about the past.
And I was there, all stats wins/losses that they removed due to CASUALS made me dislike bnet 2.0 even more until they fixed it by bringing them back. Now they just need to fix Arcade.
As for the thread:
I don't know who did these maps but they are good enough:
ESL Akilon Wastes
ESL Bel'Shir Vestige
ESL Daybreak
ESL Neo Planet S
ESL Newkirk Precinct
ESL Star Station
ESL Whirlwind
If your maps are among them and affected esports, then yes it matters, if not, then Blizz still has good mapmakers to use. And I wouldn't call the maps for pro scene a 'downfall'.
Terrainers here make amazing terrains but with few kilos of doodads, it is not good for gameplay, perhaps some balance can be made
There are some things that could be done: Unranked Matchmaking, use larger pool (in every tournament a map pool cannot be too big and has 5-7 maps on average), also maps need to be learnt and exploited with all its plues and minuses during a battle.
hello again,
my dear chicken :) my "rant" was not one :) (oulala you never want me ranting .. no no)
the only aggressively in it (that could make it sound like a rant) was geared towards eve and blizz, not you (and i wasn't even aggressive, :) just jealous that eve had so much time to spend on galaxy, and that blizz f cks up intentionally)
...
So.. you don't want to discuss the possibility that blizzard is doing exactly what it wants/feels is best for their strategy
mmm (geared towards fock) how can one even imagine that blizz is "out of idea" :/ lol that it will do less than it can..?
that it needs 12 year old advice
sad really
...
blizzard is doing what it wants.. but it should really invite focke for an interview, i think he deserves it (sorry couldn't help making fun, no offense meant)
(Quote from Eiviyn): The fact that Blizzard are willing to make arcade maps free to play is glorious.
+1
i am so happy that galaxy exists :^P
all the rest is gravy or sugar on top
(this, as a mapmaker and (granted, to a lesser degree) a player and hoster
@ScorpSCII: Go That is Very Sad indeed. I just looked at that thread and it appears Blizzard has responded. Is this how they treat the professional SC players, probably not. They need to get there priorities straight and get the prizes out promptly when the contest is finished. This would be understandable is they where offering a free tip to blizzcon. But they care as much as they give.
I think Yenosu was incredible looking map now it looks like a dota map.
-ESV Cloud Kingdom - Good map, I personally didn't like it balancewise or matchwise but then again I played it during WoL Infestor insta win fungal : /
-ESV Ohana - Good map but became too abused and known
-ESV Vicious - don't know it
-TPW Yeonsu - don't know it
-Crux Frost - don't know it
-DF Atlas - I think I remember it but I don't think it was anything so special
-TPW Odyssey - don't know it
-ESV Korhal Compound - I remember it last year, I think the epic matches of MvP vs Nestea from IEM Cologne, great map
-Crux Daybreak - Yeah Daybreak is nice and played
-TPW Damage Inc - dk
-TPW Concrete Dreams - dk
-TPW Artifice - dk
-TPW Silver Sands - dk
-TPW Rattlesnake - dk
-TPW Overgrown - dk
-ESV Sanshorn Mist -dk
-ESV Testbug - Nope, I think it was rather bad map...
This plus Kespa maps do not make any worse maps. SO my conclusion is: Yes they did make some nice maps but since Kespa also have nice maps, the overall result is: Tournaments do not suffer from decent maps, despite losing some mapmakers. For reference, except Redcity the maps in my previous post are decent and afaik are Kespa maps most of them.