With the majority of mapster being well aware of the arcade situation (most mapmakers quit / are inactive), I just wanted to notify you all about what's going on in the melee mapmaking world.
Melee mapmaking has suffered even more than arcade in the sense of lack of support, which has led to a lot frustration and ultimately inactivity.
Recent events have finally made the final push, resulting in the disband of DF (my team), followed up by TPW a couple of hours later. As ESV (kind of) disbanded ealier this year as well, the western melee mapmaking community is left with now only 2 quality mapmakers (barely active, but still around).
I think it's safe to say, that the western melee community is now practically dead.
Personally, I have decided to quit SC2 entirely, abandoning my arcade project Golfcraft you may or may not have heard of. That's not the point of this thread though.
I just wanted to let everyone here on sc2mapster know of the melee situation, and I sincerely hope the death of melee mapmaking (something that lasted for 15+ years in SC1) will open Blizzard's eyes soon enough; hopefully reviving what's left of the arcade community.
It's been a great journey throughout my roughly 3 years on mapster, but I'm afraid I have to finally wave goodbye. I wish you all the best.
There is a Thread on Bnet that basically says that the people that participated in the TLMap Contest #2 never received their promised prizes from Blizzard. What is that about?
There is a Thread on Bnet that basically says that the people that participated in the TLMap Contest #2 contest never received their promised prizes from Blizzard. What is that about?
I always felt the Blizzard community managers were retarded. Blizzard is not so arrogant as they are ignorant/oblivious. Their internal structure, they just dont have that understanding and grasp of the community needs and direction. Some people are not doing their job properly in bridging that gap.
There is a Thread on Bnet that basically says that the people that participated in the TLMap Contest #2 contest never received their promised prizes from Blizzard. What is that about?
I'm getting ready to release a bunch of content that I feel StarCraft sorely needs. I've already ran EU's #1 map for months now and had my fair share of mistakes and screw-ups, along with some harsh lessons in game design and how not to maintain a game.
The fact that Blizzard are willing to make arcade maps free to play is glorious.
The interest that the sc2 dev team are taking in their mappers appears (but it's just promises at this stage) to be extremely promising. Being able to talk directly with devs is great.
The upcoming Blizzard launcher will open up arcade content to millions of players with minimal fuss, all with the click of a single link that can be dropped on any internet forum.
I'm happy. I feel like the only one who is, though, especially with the upcoming SCU kickstarter failure (or so it appears), and the entourage of whining that will follow it.
I'm happy. I feel like the only one who is, though, especially with the upcoming SCU kickstarter failure (or so it appears), and the entourage of whining that will follow it.
Hey, I'm happy working on Starmon!
Also - that project of yours better not be a TOFU.
Only thing Im sad about is that I dont have HOTS and I will not buy it just to map...thats when blizzard lost me :(
and Im still not convinced blizzard will do good decisions regarding arcade. Like....its pretty good as it is, but by requiring you to have HOTS is turn off for me.
Oh and I was deeply dissapointed that the cinematic editor wasnt what I expected it to be :(...
and Im still not convinced blizzard will do good decisions regarding arcade. Like....its pretty good as it is, but by requiring you to have HOTS is turn off for me.
I haven't exactly been keeping up, but... wasn't Blizzard doing the exact opposite of this? Allowing people to play HotS games without having HotS through the party mechanic?
I haven't exactly been keeping up, but... wasn't Blizzard doing the exact opposite of this? Allowing people to play HotS games without having HotS through the party mechanic?
Yes, but the problem is with the arcade abysmal already, its dumb to split the services, The expansion should have been campaign and melee only :/ this is the reason I am using cut models, with SoPs and attachments to make new units instead of using the HoTS assets from the game I bought.
Scorp, can you give us a list of the core problems you encountered in sc2?
It might be interesting to know which problems you can identify regarding melee mapmaking.
I assume the problems would be that people don't play public custom games very often as they aren't as easy to use (very inferior to the easy-to-use ladder). I've heard that the game starts automatically when the player joins and getting an opponent with a comparable skill level is therefore unlikely.
But I'm just observing it from the outside and making my own assumptions which might not be true. So, having the mapmakers' point of views would be great.
There is a Thread on Bnet that basically says that the people that
participated in the TLMap Contest #2 contest never received their
promised prizes from Blizzard. What is that about?
The two mapmakers who won the competition and a ladder spot even had their maps completely retextured by Blizzard, without any kind of permission or notice - and to be frank, it looks like Blizzard only spent half an hour trashing their stunningly beautiful maps, that has both been in development for more than half a year. Oh and yeah, they never received their contest prizes.
Scorp, can you give us a list of the core problems you encountered in
sc2?
It might be interesting to know which problems you can identify
regarding melee mapmaking.
I assume the problems would be that people don't play public custom
games very often as they aren't as easy to use (very inferior to the
easy-to-use ladder). I've heard that the game starts automatically when
the player joins and getting an opponent with a comparable skill level
is therefore unlikely.
But I'm just observing it from the outside and making my own assumptions
which might not be true. So, having the mapmakers' point of views would
be great.
The lack of play on maps on bnet has actually never been an issue. Sure they don't get played at all, but that is to be expected - why would people practice maps that will never hit ladder? The core issue is that Blizzard never supported the community, despite us making far superior maps to Blizzard themselves. Almost every Blizzard map stays for one season, while all community maps so far (aside from Korhal Compound, but that's because Blizzard denied taking in a much improved version by the author) have been staple maps all around. Yet Blizzard has not seemed to even care about the community - they keep bringing in 2-3 trash maps of their own every season, only to remove it again ASAP.
The TPW retirement post written by Ragoo actually sums up the core issues pretty well. Feel free to ask me any questions regarding this, I'd very much like to help out.
Don't go to steam games, that's where I came from, Its MUCH worse.... Yes your crap will get played, but Valve breaks it every week... its a huge pain in the ass. I created 2 of the top 10 highest maps for DoD:S, Valve is worse then blizzard trust me on that.
Don't go to steam games, that's where I came from, Its MUCH worse.... Yes your crap will get played, but Valve breaks it every week... its a huge pain in the ass. I created 2 of the top 10 highest maps for DoD:S, Valve is worse then blizzard trust me on that.
Valve pays each map maker that gets a map into competitive CS:GO play $8k, despite them having taken in 3 times as many community maps in ONE year as Blizzard did over the past THREE years. Nobody ever got anything from Blizzard (aside from minimal credit, which one would rather not have after getting your work completely butchered before being put into ladder). I'm not saying map makers are in for the money - cause they are not - but it proves how much Valve cares about their community. This is something that shines through in every game they released (CS:GO, TF2, Dota2, HF2...).
I dunno about GO, but I know source games are eternally fucked. I wasnt in it for any money, I was in it to make a map, and everytime they would break something weekly.
There's been no threads on the subject of melee map making around here for as long as I can remember. Feel free to prove me wrong though :)
I just made one yesterday :( it wasnt a QQ thread though it was a thinking thread about how to "Fix" Everything... but only 3 people participated... I guess people would rather cry over spilled milk instead of cleaning it up.
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With the majority of mapster being well aware of the arcade situation (most mapmakers quit / are inactive), I just wanted to notify you all about what's going on in the melee mapmaking world.
Melee mapmaking has suffered even more than arcade in the sense of lack of support, which has led to a lot frustration and ultimately inactivity.
Recent events have finally made the final push, resulting in the disband of DF (my team), followed up by TPW a couple of hours later. As ESV (kind of) disbanded ealier this year as well, the western melee mapmaking community is left with now only 2 quality mapmakers (barely active, but still around).
I think it's safe to say, that the western melee community is now practically dead.
Personally, I have decided to quit SC2 entirely, abandoning my arcade project Golfcraft you may or may not have heard of. That's not the point of this thread though.
I just wanted to let everyone here on sc2mapster know of the melee situation, and I sincerely hope the death of melee mapmaking (something that lasted for 15+ years in SC1) will open Blizzard's eyes soon enough; hopefully reviving what's left of the arcade community.
It's been a great journey throughout my roughly 3 years on mapster, but I'm afraid I have to finally wave goodbye. I wish you all the best.
Further reading:
Dream Forge Maps Retires From Starcraft Map Making
TPW Mapmaking Team Officially Retires
@ScorpSCII: Go
Aaw. Mapnights were nice, weren't they? What are you thinking to do now as a hobby?
There is a Thread on Bnet that basically says that the people that participated in the TLMap Contest #2 never received their promised prizes from Blizzard. What is that about?
Link: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9754145796?page=1
Least they had contest -_-
@ScorpSCII: Go
I always felt the Blizzard community managers were retarded. Blizzard is not so arrogant as they are ignorant/oblivious. Their internal structure, they just dont have that understanding and grasp of the community needs and direction. Some people are not doing their job properly in bridging that gap.
Thats low.
I'm getting ready to release a bunch of content that I feel StarCraft sorely needs. I've already ran EU's #1 map for months now and had my fair share of mistakes and screw-ups, along with some harsh lessons in game design and how not to maintain a game.
The fact that Blizzard are willing to make arcade maps free to play is glorious.
The interest that the sc2 dev team are taking in their mappers appears (but it's just promises at this stage) to be extremely promising. Being able to talk directly with devs is great.
The upcoming Blizzard launcher will open up arcade content to millions of players with minimal fuss, all with the click of a single link that can be dropped on any internet forum.
I'm happy. I feel like the only one who is, though, especially with the upcoming SCU kickstarter failure (or so it appears), and the entourage of whining that will follow it.
Hey, I'm happy working on Starmon!
Also - that project of yours better not be a TOFU.
Only thing Im sad about is that I dont have HOTS and I will not buy it just to map...thats when blizzard lost me :(
and Im still not convinced blizzard will do good decisions regarding arcade. Like....its pretty good as it is, but by requiring you to have HOTS is turn off for me.
Oh and I was deeply dissapointed that the cinematic editor wasnt what I expected it to be :(...
I haven't exactly been keeping up, but... wasn't Blizzard doing the exact opposite of this? Allowing people to play HotS games without having HotS through the party mechanic?
Yes, but the problem is with the arcade abysmal already, its dumb to split the services, The expansion should have been campaign and melee only :/ this is the reason I am using cut models, with SoPs and attachments to make new units instead of using the HoTS assets from the game I bought.
@SearingChicken: Go
yea...I just dont see the value in buying hots just for assets...melee is not that interesting to me and the campaign is meh too.
Its sort of great they allow some people get in hots, but Its not something I really care about.
@zenx1: Go
I bought it for the campaign and the melee :), The arcade was another part of it, but that part disappointed me.
Scorp, can you give us a list of the core problems you encountered in sc2?
It might be interesting to know which problems you can identify regarding melee mapmaking.
I assume the problems would be that people don't play public custom games very often as they aren't as easy to use (very inferior to the easy-to-use ladder). I've heard that the game starts automatically when the player joins and getting an opponent with a comparable skill level is therefore unlikely.
But I'm just observing it from the outside and making my own assumptions which might not be true. So, having the mapmakers' point of views would be great.
Indeed they were, good times!
My map team, DF, plan to start modding for CS:GO instead, and aside from that, I'd also like to get into actual game development.
Indeed they were, good times!
My team, DF, plan to start modding for CS:GO, and I'd also like to get into actual game development.
Ironman is very much on target :(
The two mapmakers who won the competition and a ladder spot even had their maps completely retextured by Blizzard, without any kind of permission or notice - and to be frank, it looks like Blizzard only spent half an hour trashing their stunningly beautiful maps, that has both been in development for more than half a year. Oh and yeah, they never received their contest prizes.
The lack of play on maps on bnet has actually never been an issue. Sure they don't get played at all, but that is to be expected - why would people practice maps that will never hit ladder? The core issue is that Blizzard never supported the community, despite us making far superior maps to Blizzard themselves. Almost every Blizzard map stays for one season, while all community maps so far (aside from Korhal Compound, but that's because Blizzard denied taking in a much improved version by the author) have been staple maps all around. Yet Blizzard has not seemed to even care about the community - they keep bringing in 2-3 trash maps of their own every season, only to remove it again ASAP.
The TPW retirement post written by Ragoo actually sums up the core issues pretty well.
Feel free to ask me any questions regarding this, I'd very much like to help out.
@ScorpSCII: Go
Don't go to steam games, that's where I came from, Its MUCH worse.... Yes your crap will get played, but Valve breaks it every week... its a huge pain in the ass. I created 2 of the top 10 highest maps for DoD:S, Valve is worse then blizzard trust me on that.
Valve pays each map maker that gets a map into competitive CS:GO play $8k, despite them having taken in 3 times as many community maps in ONE year as Blizzard did over the past THREE years. Nobody ever got anything from Blizzard (aside from minimal credit, which one would rather not have after getting your work completely butchered before being put into ladder). I'm not saying map makers are in for the money - cause they are not - but it proves how much Valve cares about their community. This is something that shines through in every game they released (CS:GO, TF2, Dota2, HF2...).
@ScorpSCII: Go
I dunno about GO, but I know source games are eternally fucked. I wasnt in it for any money, I was in it to make a map, and everytime they would break something weekly.
Is it time for revolution of mass awakening? How many more threads about this do we need?
There's been no thread on the subject of melee map making around here for as long as I can remember. Feel free to prove me wrong though.
Also, you should consider this thread a news update more than anything. I'm not here to rant :)
I just made one yesterday :( it wasnt a QQ thread though it was a thinking thread about how to "Fix" Everything... but only 3 people participated... I guess people would rather cry over spilled milk instead of cleaning it up.