Hi everyone! This is my first post on the forums so I'll explain who I am a little bit! ([Feel free to skip]Not so much as an introduction, but to lead into my main question I'd like to discuss.) I'm currently 20 years old, a college student and a WC3 map making veteran. I've spent a large portion of my life modifying games into something that people can play and enjoy and it all started with that damned World Editor. Eventually I stopped and moved on to different kinds of games that I could manipulate where recently I'd found myself working on the Spoutcraft end of the Minecraft world. I'd always heard about Starcraft II and it was interesting, so I decided to buy the game and check everything out.
As far as the game itself goes.. Well, I loved it. Campaign was damn good, apparently the expansion has been out for four months and I need to hop on that wagon too lol
Anyhow, I began looking into the Galaxy Editor! Fantastic name for the successor to the World Editor. Things were going well until I looked at the Data Editor. It's complicated. I don't even know where to start honestly. There's so many files all connecting to each other in 70 different ways. I'd taken time to read many tutorials all around Google, and maybe I'm just dumb or something.. but I barely managed to conjure up a custom probe unit.. I understand that everything so disconnected is what makes the data editor more powerful than the object editor though I have it admit, it's a really big turn off. I'll probably sound like a broken record by saying I could have done the same basic things in WC3 in a quarter of the time, but I guess it's one of those "Get with the program" (no pun intended) situations.
So, I start working on getting my first Starcraft creation made (A crazy third person RPG), and I drop by here and there to see stuff by people like OneTwoSC (wonderful tutorials) and then I started noticing a few threads here and around the net talking about the state of things with the Arcade itself. People mentioning how the setup causes unpopular maps to have a hell of a hard time dislodging the most recycled popular ones, or how the arcade and map making community is beginning to dwindle if it hadn't already. To be truthful; not to sound rude on my first post here ever, but sometimes you guys are about as good as that damn Data Editor at scaring new or returning map makers away. (That's just my opinion though. <3) I've been having aspiration of creating maps just like in the old days of Parasite, Footmen, Legendary Heroes, Angel Arena hell I'll even throw Dota in there but I won't touch this editor if I feel like my map is going to only see a couple dozen people before it begins collecting dust. I don't think anyone on the planet has the time or patience to go through that kind of crap.
I really just want to know, where does a new map maker start? Is the community dwindling that much? Am I going to magically understand the data editor after I eat a mozzarella stick? I'll assume HoTs didn't do much for the arcade's popularity, but will prophecy of the void? Am I alone in this confusion?
To conclude this whole rant/explanation of where I am: I would like to say a big thanks to the few great people on this website and a few others like it who make tutorials and assets for people new and experienced with the Galaxy editor. The time they put into making those videos is reflected in less time taken to create the next great things!
No-no, what he's saying is that you either quit early cause of data editor, or stick long enough to become data editors proxy for repulsing people =D
Hi, don't be scared by grumpy old people. Aslo, you start by doing stuff and when you hit a brick wall you search mapster, ask people on irc, check how blizz maps work for hints and never ever ever give up.
Hi, welcome to mapsters, ans since you know enough about being scared away, I hope people around here don't try to scare you even more.
When I started I didn't know mapster and online tutorials were rare, so comparing blizzard's data was the most effective method for me and I say it can help you a lot. You can always ask around or PM people.
And no, a mozzarella stick won't help you there ;-)
Yeah, it's more of a shock factor I suppose. I feel like there were probably billions of threads like this when Starcraft came out/was in the beta but seeing as how I'm just hopping into it and there are people who have a very good understanding of it out there I'm just kind of at a crossroads. The world editor was something a person could open up at tweak with little to no experience in mapping and have a huge impact on the game. But I have a ton of experience with that, it just doesn't all translate over to the Data Editor when I have absolutely no idea where anything is. It's a learning curve issue I suppose. The trigger editor is pretty much the same though so I am having fun with that.
You're spot on with that for sure.
When you're new on the scene (or any scene) it's kind of hard to get help when you have nowhere to look except tutorials from 2010-2011 that are outdated. >.< But I do plan on being active in the community to see if I can help people with what little I've been able to get decent at on this editor (which is terrain lol) and possibly see if somebody can help me when I hit my own brick walls.
It was kind of frustrating when I read that other thread about the arcade dying. I hope it isn't all doom and gloom as people are putting it. I think Starcraft is still just a young game and will probably start getting more map makers (especially WC3 vets) really soon. People are going to start transitioning over soon I'm sure. But yeah, that's a good tip. I've been using Blizz data in the editor to help me figure out where I want units to be. I think I'm more thrown off by little meticulous things like why a probe has "Terran small unit death low/protoss small unit death low." Those models shouldn't be there. O_o
You are correct in that the data editor is scary to start with, you aren't the first to notice this, you certainly won't be the last either. First few months of getting more used to the SC2 Editor, I pretty much forced myself to figure everything out using data only. Trigger editor isn't scary at all in comparison, probably because you can just organize the bits and pieces however you want, rather than follow the magical trail that is the data editor, lol.
The War3 to SC2 transition I've been told is bad, however I would argue the BW to SC2 transition is even worse. Anyways, point being, stick with it. If I can catch up from BW, no reason you cannot catch up from War3. Since no one has mentioned this yet, in the data editor you'll probably be spending the vast majority of your time in actors, effects, and behavior fields. Of course many others are important, but I guarantee you that you will not be spending anywhere near as much time in those areas. Other important ones to really getting going but not quite as prevalent will be the Ability, Requirement, Validator, and Unit fields.
Wouldn't let the Arcade talk scare you too much, it is a tradition on here to have a discussion about the arcade/popularity/rating system every few months. And every time it brings up the past, rehashed crap that has been said a hundred times already. I guess complaining about how the system is unfair is easier than just making your project that much better to not have these sorts of problems? I wouldn't sweat that too much, a map type that people actually like with high quality and high fun factor will get noticed. Is a problem I've seen with a lot of maps that didn't do so great, high quality everything, but they forgot to make the map fun. SCU is an awesome example of this, great layout, great use of story, great use of models/recolors/attachments, high amount of heroes and abilities and such, is basically an SC2 MMO almost, but they forgot to make the game fun at all. Is just button mash 2013. Don't be those people, make sure the map is fun too :P
Well put haha. Seems like it's going to be one of those big trial and error processes but I think I'm down for it. There's a lot more help out there now than there was for a lot others when things were brand new so I don't have a ton of room to complain about not have the resources to learn it.
When I design games (or mods/whatever you'd call them) I always follow a few guidelines to make them as fun as possible. When all the functionality of the editor I suppose it could be easy to get carried away with fancy UI's etc. haha. SCU looked really good, it's a shame by your account that it wasn't super duper fun. My impression of it was that it would be super complicated, which is a turn off to any gamer although I haven't had my hands on it so I can't say for sure. I just think to myself, "What would I want to play? Is it possible for them to abuse the system I'm making? Will they want to play again? What methods am I using to encourage them to do stuff?" And I've usually been happy with my results. It's methodical. lol
A good train of thought for sure, I keep mine a bit simpler. Been playing video games for nearly 3 decades myself, so my process is, would I want to play this? Does this design work for me while I'm playing? Won't be what everyone wants for sure, but even if you consider everyone it won't be what everyone wants. Just much simpler to only have one person to consider rather than think about all of them.
Sounds like you got a good start in any case, if you get stuck for more than an hour on something I'd encourage posting on here or hitting the irc chat at #sc2mapster through webchat.freenode.net. Don't be expecting instant answers or anything, but someone will typically get back to you within a day. Who it might be will be a mystery, depends who is awake, on here, and is familiar with the assets you are trying to work with. No one on here is a master of it all, but each definitely has their areas of expertise. Best of luck getting going.