As someone who likes TD makes in general i have to put my two cents into this thread.
For me i havent come across a TD ive enjoyed in over a year. In fact they were never many that i truly thought hit a point where the TD became great rather than just ok/fun. Whatever anyone else likes is their opinion and can't possibly be disputed seeing as how no matter how logically you make an argument you cannot beat simple opinion with logic, if they like it they will like it and you cant talk them out of it.
That being said ill get to the main point of this post: TDs i like.
There was a TD in WC3 called "Dixel's TD." it was very simple, each player has a lane and the bad guys move from left to right while you try to stop them, but unlike most TDs you have just a single life. You couldnt let a single mob get through or you lost. I tried it hundreds of times literally and only ever beat it after hundreds of tries. You had to find out how to make a maze efficient enough to ultilize every last resource you had.
There was a bonus wave and you had to figure out how you could build just the right amount of towers to have enough money to buy that one extra AA tower that would get you enough to cash to get to the last levels. In conclusion, heres the main point: it was hard. It was scientific, you had to think out your strategy, plan it well, and test just how much you could get away with and when. Thats what makes a TD game great: it can be scientifically balanced.
The element of luck can be as little as the designer makes it. So the best player wins. Two other things about dixel's TD made it great: there were very few towers so it wasnt finding out what you can use, but using what was obvious and also the farther left you put your towers, the more hp the mobs had going through your maze. So again that make it competitive and challenging.
No other TD i have ever played has reached that point of scientific balance, and completing in the first time starting all the way to the right made the hundreds of hours playing all worth it. For me the fun in a TD is directly related to the skill:victory ratio, getting rewarded for playing well is the best thing about them.
And just because i know that there are going to be posts telling how stupid this post is: this is my opinion, nothing some random person on the internet says will ever affect what i think about this subject. And i understand that alot of people wont agree with me on this either, and i understand that too.
For the relativity to this thread: I dont think TD as a genre is too old or too generic or too anything for anyone to make a fun TD map, I think its the mapmakers making the maps rather than the genre (not meaning you guys are bad, i do have fun with alot of the current TDs, they just dont match up to older ones if you ask me, you just happen to be making games in a different style than i like.)
Sorry for the grammar and the length :P
Wall of text crits you for 1000000000000.
Edit: Made it a tad bit easier on the eyes so people are more likely to read your post (didn't change any of the content though, don't worry), hope it's ok /Z
TD's are TD's. It's a gametype, a subgenre created from RTS staples. To say that an entire genre sucks because it has become obsolete is a very crude statement. How can you blame a genre for being bad for simply existing? This is entirely up to the person who's playing it, and someone who has not played a TD can still enjoy it as much as someone who first played one 10 years ago. The gameplay is classic and timeless. You can get sick of playing platformers like Mario, but you can't make the argument that the genre sucks because (you think) it's obsolete.
You never really presented this as an opinion, rather you outright stated this as some sort of global truth that everyone should agree to. You're not entirely wrong, as the concept of a TD has been overdone in the general RTS mapping community, but that's a whole different issue. The fact that TD's are still present and being played is proof against your claims that no one cares about them.
Ding Ding! we have a winner. Finally someone who isnt a complete...stupid :(.
I guess I shouldnt even post in the thread since the thread was useles to begin with. Saying that something sucks when its getting played over and over again, mean it clearly doesnt suck. I dont know if rodrigo is really serious with his thread...he probly is. Well I dont have anything smart to say, but good post triceron!
Also, Triceron has a good point. The fact that so many TDs exist and are being played is proof that they are popular. And counter to some other points in this thread, popular != good, or the "Justin Bieber Theory". So in this sense, Rodrigo's rants still have some merit.
And counter to some other points in this thread, popular != good, or the "Justin Bieber Theory". So in this sense, Rodrigo's rants still have some merit.
There really isn't any situation where that argument has merit. To you, Justin Bieber is bad. To his fans, he's good. It's all subjective.
Any attempt to force your subjective definition of "good" on someone else is a recipe for conflict. This is also the case for such topics as politics, religion, etc.
@RodrigoAlves: Go
However, you are with out a doubt saying TDs suck and are obselete and along with Tacomanstan you are saying they are not fun. Your are both stateing this as if its fact. Yes its an old genere but people will decide what they find fun for themselves. Td's clearly are fun to the majority of gamers on battle.net.
Let's assume Rodrigo agrees with his own post. What does his post actually say? Well, we could assume you read it but judging by all the wrong facts coming from all the people attacking Rodrigo, I will just repeat them.
His post says that fun is when something exercises your brain by teaching.
Rodrigo also agrees that TDs teach but that the stuff it teaches is obsolete. Therefore the thing he's stating is not that it's not fun but rather the opposite. On the other hand, he sees it as the wrong kind of fun, the kind of fun that is not intellectually challenging and to differentiate the two kinds of fun, he calls one of them "fonne".
So what do I personally think? I think some TDs are fun. I've spent a ton of time playing TDs, but I think it's not the challenging kind of fun I prefer. Yet, I play it because it gives me a false sense of accomplishment(I am a fool("fonne") in that regard).
Oh god. Another one... I will repeat the same thing again: I AM NOT BASHING BLIZZARD NOR TALKING ABOUT THE POPULARITY SYSTEM. . .
Yes, you are:
"On a side note, this is why I disagree with sorting maps by popularity or by rating (Up&Coming and HotS); it promotes the “easy” challenges and hide the harder ones that requires some painful learning. However, this painful learning is a pre-requisite for innovation because every new genre requires some additional thinking. Luckily, we had on Starcraft 1 and Warcraft 3 a system that pretty much forced players to learn new games. As a consequence, new genres like DoTa and TDs were able to be popular in the first place."
The last thing you said in your original post is a direct bee-line to the popularity system.
Quote:
. . . You're the one rampaging by asking me to shut up when the only thing I'm trying to do is to share an intellectual knowledge. . .
To say that I am rampaging is just sad. It would be one thing if people disagreed with me when I take the time to tell you you're out of line, but most of the people in this thread are reciprocating my sentiments. Are you trying to say that more than half the people in this community are rampaging because they disagree with you and don't appreciate your posts?
You're not sharing anything. You're passively attempting to dictate the ideas of others by looking for obscure information and then mutating it into feeble foundations for your arguments. The key word being argument. Your posts aren't neutral ideas that you put forth for discussion. Your posts are charged topics that are incredibly biased and horribly misrepresented.
Quote:
. . . Please. I came here with a peaceful idea to share something cool I read and you guyz just bash me and ask me to shut up. . .
You clearly don't understand people at all if you think that taking the title of someone's topic and tacking "to Suck" on the end isn't a direct slam on the author of that thread. It only gets worse when you start trying to argue that an entire genre is bad. You just can't do that. You didn't share something cool. You found an opinion (because the book you referenced is NOT fact), mashed it together with your own opinion and tried to spin it as fact.
People are bashing you because they have a valid reason to. If I said "Yeah, Debates is still #1 to suck" you'd be up in arms! While I, personally, don't like most of your maps, you won't ever see me running around telling everyone your maps suck because that's opinion, not fact.
Quote:
. . . Alright. I guess that's what I should do.
The irony is you will never be quiet until you learn why you provoke such a strong, negative reaction from everyone around you. Go through your recent posts and replace whatever your subject was with "my maps." You should immediately feel insulted after doing this.
I've noticed that you have a very difficult time understanding how your own posts are negative, but you almost always know when someone is making a negative post about your maps. Logic follows that if you use this test you will be able to see why your posts are negative given your hyper-sensitivity to your own maps.
It bothers me that threads like this get so much attention, when threads about actual maps get a lot less. Every time Rodrigo makes a new thread, it gets 10 times the replies of most project threads.
It's kind of silly. I never had a huge amount of respect for him initially, then he came on Mapcraft and forced a decent amount of the intangible substance. It's all but gone again by now.
That said, I'm going to keep an eye out from now on. Any more of this stuff, or anything turning sour, and I'll just lock it. I'm an advocate of free speech, but, come on...
A lot of hate for TDs all of a sudden once Squadron TD soared to top. At least Squadron TD added a twist to the genre. If not a twist, then least like the other TDs on the list. It's arguably fun but hey it gave what the bnet audience wanted. It's doing something right to attract the childish players if that's how you wanna call them.
It bothers me that threads like this get so much attention, when threads about actual maps get a lot less. Every time Rodrigo makes a new thread, it gets 10 times the replies of most project threads.
It makes this community look really, really bad.
It's just so much easier to talk about it! I can't go online and play test a map while i'm at work, and then respond to it. That extra hurdle just attracts less conversation.
This is a discussion of ideas and concepts, and a whole lotta Rodrigo bashing.
It's kind of silly. I never had a huge amount of respect for him initially, then he came on Mapcraft and forced a decent amount of the intangible substance. It's all but gone again by now.
That said, I'm going to keep an eye out from now on. Any more of this stuff, or anything turning sour, and I'll just lock it. I'm an advocate of free speech, but, come on...
You say you're an advocate of free speech but will lock Rodrigo's threads because most mapmakers, like people on battle net, are too STUPID to understand his POINT? Mozared, I respect you and Rodrigo about the same, because you both are excellent at what you do and you take the time to teach the community. Lemme dumb it down for all of you not understanding Rodrigo's point, he wants people to make TD's to add new and profound dimensions for the people of battle net.
I will paraphrase from a series of interviews Rodrigo did himself.
Most people don't like certain maps on battle net over others. They play these maps because a vast majority of the players who do like these maps and a vast majority of the players who don't like these maps play them anyway. This was done for 1v1 Obs over ICJug.
Now why would these maps be up here if a lot dont like them? Well first off, why don't these people like these maps? Maybe because they're not having fun because they've exhausted the learning process. In effect, games become less "fun" once you master them. And while this was done for an obs engine which is slightly different, the object remains the same.
Now all Rodrigo said, was that TDs need twists, the fact that a few inflammatory comments derailed the thread is no fault of Rodrigo's. Besides, the SOTIS unlocked thread was NEVER locked, and that was the most controversial thread on mapster in the last few months.
You completely missed the point Mozared was trying to make. He supports freedom of speech (which most forums do not) in so far as it doesn't devolve into these pointless threads Rodrigo has been making for the past several weeks. You have no idea what Rodrigo is trying to say and you can't advocate for him because nobody but Rodrigo knows what Rodrigo is trying to say. Thus by trying to dumb down what he's saying for us "less evolved" individuals you are just adding yet another meaningless post to the thread. Your post is a perfect example of what we're getting tired of seeing.
The fact that this thread even made it to 3 pages without being locked is proof enough that we are willing to let you guys discuss most topics, but there comes a point when enough is enough.
Just because you can take a few sentences and regurgitate them out of context does not make what you just said true. He did not "just say" this or "he really meant" that. He said TD's suck, he pointed to it being a reason he doesn't like how popularity works, and he insinuated people who make TDs are often fools.
Ignoring everything else he said, that, alone, is enough to upset most people who are tired of the sheer amount of threads he's created in this vein.
What Prozaic said. I don't want to lock his thread because 'people are too dumb to understand his point', I want to lock them because they are ALL about the same subject, albeit presented slyly in a different way. Plus, this 'point' he is making is A) completely moot anyway and B) as dead as a dead horse will ever be. Just wanted to respond to this;
Now all Rodrigo said, was that TDs need twists, the fact that a few inflammatory comments derailed the thread is no fault of Rodrigo's. Besides, the SOTIS unlocked thread was NEVER locked, and that was the most controversial thread on mapster in the last few months.
Yes, but that's because most mods (including me) decided not to touch that thread with a 10 feet pole after a large discussion in the mod forum where Sixen said he was ok with it. We debated quite heavily about it (and iirc it even caused one mod to leave) and then decided to ultimately just leave it up to Sixen when he asked us to.
My complaint is Rodrigo and others appear to be stating that tds as a genre suck as a fact. Re-reading Rodrigos post he does appear to say that td's only suck to mapmakers because we all played them on wc3 and sc1 so their fun is obsolete, but this argument seems pretty weak to me, people still play and make all sorts of other map genres that have been around since sc1. Also plenty of people on this forum didnt play sc1 or wc3.
As for the business with fonne, he's just pulling an old negative word thats pronounced similarly to fun. It adds nothing to his argument and I don't know why its there. Is he saying people who find td's fun are fools because they enjoy learning something that he considers obsolete? Or that td's
Personally I don't even like td's much! But plenty of people do and its not for me to call them stupid for enjoying something I happen to find a bit boring. I expect a lot of people in the world would find map making for sc2 boring but does that mean map making is fonne? Hopefully you disagree.
A lot of hate for TDs all of a sudden once Squadron TD soared to top. At least Squadron TD added a twist to the genre. If not a twist, then least like the other TDs on the list. It's arguably fun but hey it gave what the bnet audience wanted. It's doing something right to attract the childish players if that's how you wanna call them.
Okay I'm not gonna write anything about Rodrigos post or his person here, but I want to make a point about posts like this.
The moment people started hating not only on Blizzard for the popularity system, but on the players as well, this debate became incredibly more retarded. It has been said time and time again, with all contras regarding the popsys in mind, if your map is not popular it either sucks or is just totally nichy. This is true in approximately 99% of the time. And I feel actually a bit retarded myself for justifying playing certain maps, but I'm gonna tell you something: I don't want to get extremely stimulated everytime I play, sometimes I just want to chill. My friends and I can join squadron TD and just talk about something completely else while having some fun, I even can tab out without a problem and check forums or something, and it's just cool. And I'm pretty sure many players mapchoice is similarily motivated. Now, if you call me or anybody else "childish" for that, you, Sir, are just moronic.
As someone who likes TD makes in general i have to put my two cents into this thread.
For me i havent come across a TD ive enjoyed in over a year. In fact they were never many that i truly thought hit a point where the TD became great rather than just ok/fun. Whatever anyone else likes is their opinion and can't possibly be disputed seeing as how no matter how logically you make an argument you cannot beat simple opinion with logic, if they like it they will like it and you cant talk them out of it.
That being said ill get to the main point of this post: TDs i like.
There was a TD in WC3 called "Dixel's TD." it was very simple, each player has a lane and the bad guys move from left to right while you try to stop them, but unlike most TDs you have just a single life. You couldnt let a single mob get through or you lost. I tried it hundreds of times literally and only ever beat it after hundreds of tries. You had to find out how to make a maze efficient enough to ultilize every last resource you had.
There was a bonus wave and you had to figure out how you could build just the right amount of towers to have enough money to buy that one extra AA tower that would get you enough to cash to get to the last levels. In conclusion, heres the main point: it was hard. It was scientific, you had to think out your strategy, plan it well, and test just how much you could get away with and when. Thats what makes a TD game great: it can be scientifically balanced.
The element of luck can be as little as the designer makes it. So the best player wins. Two other things about dixel's TD made it great: there were very few towers so it wasnt finding out what you can use, but using what was obvious and also the farther left you put your towers, the more hp the mobs had going through your maze. So again that make it competitive and challenging.
No other TD i have ever played has reached that point of scientific balance, and completing in the first time starting all the way to the right made the hundreds of hours playing all worth it. For me the fun in a TD is directly related to the skill:victory ratio, getting rewarded for playing well is the best thing about them.
And just because i know that there are going to be posts telling how stupid this post is: this is my opinion, nothing some random person on the internet says will ever affect what i think about this subject. And i understand that alot of people wont agree with me on this either, and i understand that too.
For the relativity to this thread: I dont think TD as a genre is too old or too generic or too anything for anyone to make a fun TD map, I think its the mapmakers making the maps rather than the genre (not meaning you guys are bad, i do have fun with alot of the current TDs, they just dont match up to older ones if you ask me, you just happen to be making games in a different style than i like.)
Sorry for the grammar and the length :P
Wall of text crits you for 1000000000000.
Edit: Made it a tad bit easier on the eyes so people are more likely to read your post (didn't change any of the content though, don't worry), hope it's ok /Z
TD's are TD's. It's a gametype, a subgenre created from RTS staples. To say that an entire genre sucks because it has become obsolete is a very crude statement. How can you blame a genre for being bad for simply existing? This is entirely up to the person who's playing it, and someone who has not played a TD can still enjoy it as much as someone who first played one 10 years ago. The gameplay is classic and timeless. You can get sick of playing platformers like Mario, but you can't make the argument that the genre sucks because (you think) it's obsolete.
You never really presented this as an opinion, rather you outright stated this as some sort of global truth that everyone should agree to. You're not entirely wrong, as the concept of a TD has been overdone in the general RTS mapping community, but that's a whole different issue. The fact that TD's are still present and being played is proof against your claims that no one cares about them.
@Triceron: Go
Ding Ding! we have a winner. Finally someone who isnt a complete...stupid :(.
I guess I shouldnt even post in the thread since the thread was useles to begin with. Saying that something sucks when its getting played over and over again, mean it clearly doesnt suck. I dont know if rodrigo is really serious with his thread...he probly is. Well I dont have anything smart to say, but good post triceron!
@Chiquihuite: Go
I wasn't really thinking of Element TD in this case. But most TDs on b.net are so boring I want to pass out after a few minutes.
@Triceron: Go
Also, Triceron has a good point. The fact that so many TDs exist and are being played is proof that they are popular. And counter to some other points in this thread, popular != good, or the "Justin Bieber Theory". So in this sense, Rodrigo's rants still have some merit.
@SkrowFunk: Go
"bnet popular 2.0" != popular
and td.s are not just bnet popular, just a side note.
There really isn't any situation where that argument has merit. To you, Justin Bieber is bad. To his fans, he's good. It's all subjective.
Any attempt to force your subjective definition of "good" on someone else is a recipe for conflict. This is also the case for such topics as politics, religion, etc.
Let's assume Rodrigo agrees with his own post. What does his post actually say? Well, we could assume you read it but judging by all the wrong facts coming from all the people attacking Rodrigo, I will just repeat them.
His post says that fun is when something exercises your brain by teaching.
Rodrigo also agrees that TDs teach but that the stuff it teaches is obsolete. Therefore the thing he's stating is not that it's not fun but rather the opposite. On the other hand, he sees it as the wrong kind of fun, the kind of fun that is not intellectually challenging and to differentiate the two kinds of fun, he calls one of them "fonne".
So what do I personally think? I think some TDs are fun. I've spent a ton of time playing TDs, but I think it's not the challenging kind of fun I prefer. Yet, I play it because it gives me a false sense of accomplishment(I am a fool("fonne") in that regard).
Yes, you are:
"On a side note, this is why I disagree with sorting maps by popularity or by rating (Up&Coming and HotS); it promotes the “easy” challenges and hide the harder ones that requires some painful learning. However, this painful learning is a pre-requisite for innovation because every new genre requires some additional thinking. Luckily, we had on Starcraft 1 and Warcraft 3 a system that pretty much forced players to learn new games. As a consequence, new genres like DoTa and TDs were able to be popular in the first place."
The last thing you said in your original post is a direct bee-line to the popularity system.
To say that I am rampaging is just sad. It would be one thing if people disagreed with me when I take the time to tell you you're out of line, but most of the people in this thread are reciprocating my sentiments. Are you trying to say that more than half the people in this community are rampaging because they disagree with you and don't appreciate your posts?
You're not sharing anything. You're passively attempting to dictate the ideas of others by looking for obscure information and then mutating it into feeble foundations for your arguments. The key word being argument. Your posts aren't neutral ideas that you put forth for discussion. Your posts are charged topics that are incredibly biased and horribly misrepresented.
You clearly don't understand people at all if you think that taking the title of someone's topic and tacking "to Suck" on the end isn't a direct slam on the author of that thread. It only gets worse when you start trying to argue that an entire genre is bad. You just can't do that. You didn't share something cool. You found an opinion (because the book you referenced is NOT fact), mashed it together with your own opinion and tried to spin it as fact.
People are bashing you because they have a valid reason to. If I said "Yeah, Debates is still #1 to suck" you'd be up in arms! While I, personally, don't like most of your maps, you won't ever see me running around telling everyone your maps suck because that's opinion, not fact.
The irony is you will never be quiet until you learn why you provoke such a strong, negative reaction from everyone around you. Go through your recent posts and replace whatever your subject was with "my maps." You should immediately feel insulted after doing this.
I've noticed that you have a very difficult time understanding how your own posts are negative, but you almost always know when someone is making a negative post about your maps. Logic follows that if you use this test you will be able to see why your posts are negative given your hyper-sensitivity to your own maps.
It bothers me that threads like this get so much attention, when threads about actual maps get a lot less. Every time Rodrigo makes a new thread, it gets 10 times the replies of most project threads.
It makes this community look really, really bad.
@Vexal: Go
He's Rodrigo, what would you expect? Plus, he comes up with quite controversial things most of the time.
It's kind of silly. I never had a huge amount of respect for him initially, then he came on Mapcraft and forced a decent amount of the intangible substance. It's all but gone again by now.
That said, I'm going to keep an eye out from now on. Any more of this stuff, or anything turning sour, and I'll just lock it. I'm an advocate of free speech, but, come on...
A lot of hate for TDs all of a sudden once Squadron TD soared to top. At least Squadron TD added a twist to the genre. If not a twist, then least like the other TDs on the list. It's arguably fun but hey it gave what the bnet audience wanted. It's doing something right to attract the childish players if that's how you wanna call them.
It's just so much easier to talk about it! I can't go online and play test a map while i'm at work, and then respond to it. That extra hurdle just attracts less conversation.
This is a discussion of ideas and concepts, and a whole lotta Rodrigo bashing.
You say you're an advocate of free speech but will lock Rodrigo's threads because most mapmakers, like people on battle net, are too STUPID to understand his POINT? Mozared, I respect you and Rodrigo about the same, because you both are excellent at what you do and you take the time to teach the community. Lemme dumb it down for all of you not understanding Rodrigo's point, he wants people to make TD's to add new and profound dimensions for the people of battle net.
I will paraphrase from a series of interviews Rodrigo did himself.
Most people don't like certain maps on battle net over others. They play these maps because a vast majority of the players who do like these maps and a vast majority of the players who don't like these maps play them anyway. This was done for 1v1 Obs over ICJug.
Now why would these maps be up here if a lot dont like them? Well first off, why don't these people like these maps? Maybe because they're not having fun because they've exhausted the learning process. In effect, games become less "fun" once you master them. And while this was done for an obs engine which is slightly different, the object remains the same.
Now all Rodrigo said, was that TDs need twists, the fact that a few inflammatory comments derailed the thread is no fault of Rodrigo's. Besides, the SOTIS unlocked thread was NEVER locked, and that was the most controversial thread on mapster in the last few months.
@LaertesSC2: Go
You completely missed the point Mozared was trying to make. He supports freedom of speech (which most forums do not) in so far as it doesn't devolve into these pointless threads Rodrigo has been making for the past several weeks. You have no idea what Rodrigo is trying to say and you can't advocate for him because nobody but Rodrigo knows what Rodrigo is trying to say. Thus by trying to dumb down what he's saying for us "less evolved" individuals you are just adding yet another meaningless post to the thread. Your post is a perfect example of what we're getting tired of seeing.
The fact that this thread even made it to 3 pages without being locked is proof enough that we are willing to let you guys discuss most topics, but there comes a point when enough is enough.
Just because you can take a few sentences and regurgitate them out of context does not make what you just said true. He did not "just say" this or "he really meant" that. He said TD's suck, he pointed to it being a reason he doesn't like how popularity works, and he insinuated people who make TDs are often fools.
Ignoring everything else he said, that, alone, is enough to upset most people who are tired of the sheer amount of threads he's created in this vein.
What Prozaic said. I don't want to lock his thread because 'people are too dumb to understand his point', I want to lock them because they are ALL about the same subject, albeit presented slyly in a different way. Plus, this 'point' he is making is A) completely moot anyway and B) as dead as a dead horse will ever be. Just wanted to respond to this;
Yes, but that's because most mods (including me) decided not to touch that thread with a 10 feet pole after a large discussion in the mod forum where Sixen said he was ok with it. We debated quite heavily about it (and iirc it even caused one mod to leave) and then decided to ultimately just leave it up to Sixen when he asked us to.
@Siretu: Go
My complaint is Rodrigo and others appear to be stating that tds as a genre suck as a fact. Re-reading Rodrigos post he does appear to say that td's only suck to mapmakers because we all played them on wc3 and sc1 so their fun is obsolete, but this argument seems pretty weak to me, people still play and make all sorts of other map genres that have been around since sc1. Also plenty of people on this forum didnt play sc1 or wc3.
As for the business with fonne, he's just pulling an old negative word thats pronounced similarly to fun. It adds nothing to his argument and I don't know why its there. Is he saying people who find td's fun are fools because they enjoy learning something that he considers obsolete? Or that td's
Personally I don't even like td's much! But plenty of people do and its not for me to call them stupid for enjoying something I happen to find a bit boring. I expect a lot of people in the world would find map making for sc2 boring but does that mean map making is fonne? Hopefully you disagree.
Okay I'm not gonna write anything about Rodrigos post or his person here, but I want to make a point about posts like this.
The moment people started hating not only on Blizzard for the popularity system, but on the players as well, this debate became incredibly more retarded. It has been said time and time again, with all contras regarding the popsys in mind, if your map is not popular it either sucks or is just totally nichy. This is true in approximately 99% of the time. And I feel actually a bit retarded myself for justifying playing certain maps, but I'm gonna tell you something: I don't want to get extremely stimulated everytime I play, sometimes I just want to chill. My friends and I can join squadron TD and just talk about something completely else while having some fun, I even can tab out without a problem and check forums or something, and it's just cool. And I'm pretty sure many players mapchoice is similarily motivated. Now, if you call me or anybody else "childish" for that, you, Sir, are just moronic.
Rodrigo just gained some respect.
actually that got locked and delete like 3 times.. people kept locking and deleting and un-deleting ...was kinda funny.