This thread violates curse gaming and blizzards policies btw...
just a heads up...
Are you sure about that? A similar thread came up a while back about hacking/cracking maps and we took the stance that awareness is better than cloak and daggers. While this is obviously against Blizzard policies, I actually support this in so far as it allows people like me, who have purchased the game, to play with friends sitting in the same room without the ridiculous issues surrounding Battle.Net 2.0.
While I haven't mentioned this in a while, I admitted in the past and will admit again now that I would gladly hack/crack LAN into my already purchased SC2 (when a more stable/reliable version comes out) so that I can finally play with my friends the way I used to. I have yet to play SC2 at any of the recent LAN parties I've had. We STILL play SC 1, AoE 2 and WH40k: DoW 1 instead. It's just not worth trying to cram 8 people online through the same internet connection. I was originally planning on buying 4 copies of SC2 when it came out until I discovered it didn't support LAN. My LAN group had a huge party planned and discussed pre-ordering multiple copies so that we could get together and play it the day it came out. Instead, many of my friends actually opted out of buying the game at all.
Keep in mind that the emphasis is on "already purchased." I find it a disservice that efforts must be made to add a feature to the game that should have been there from the start. (This is one of the few times I'll actually agree with Rodrigo.)
No its not. This would still be just very minimal.
Lack of Lan support actually does eliminate a greater deal of piracy.
I strongly disagree with this. SC2 was cracked the moment Beta was released. I know this because I personally downloaded and tried this crack to see if it was real (I already had a Beta key at the time). The game was also cracked shortly after retail and is now cracked, yet again, for LAN. I expect that better versions of LAN will come out over time, but the bottom line is there were no issues cracking the game. The only deterrence to cracking being that it was only campaign or melee vs AI.
Ironically, hackers developed their own AI during the Beta that provided a wide range of challenges that mimicked and surpassed the skill of players. I remember people who had the Beta going to this cracked Beta JUST to play against the custom AIs in order to quickly test out their builds.
BTW, the editor has been cracked too.
Blizzard would have done better to include LAN rather than inflame the community and encourage people to crack their game simply because they claimed it "reduces piracy." Anytime you make a statement like that the exact opposite becomes more likely. I believe that by not including LAN (followed by many of the issues in B-Net 2.0), they took a bigger financial hit than if they had included it and suffered through any proceeding piracy.
I strongly disagree with this. SC2 was cracked the moment Beta was released. I know this because I personally downloaded and tried this crack to see if it was real (I already had a Beta key at the time). The game was also cracked shortly after retail and is now cracked, yet again, for LAN. I expect that better versions of LAN will come out over time, but the bottom line is there were no issues cracking the game. The only deterrence to cracking being that it was only campaign or melee vs AI.
Ironically, hackers developed their own AI during the Beta that provided a wide range of challenges that mimicked and surpassed the skill of players. I remember people who had the Beta going to this cracked Beta JUST to play against the custom AIs in order to quickly test out their builds.
BTW, the editor has been cracked too.
Blizzard would have done better to include LAN rather than inflame the community and encourage people to crack their game simply because they claimed it "reduces piracy." Anytime you make a statement like that the exact opposite becomes more likely. I believe that by not including LAN (followed by many of the issues in B-Net 2.0), they took a bigger financial hit than if they had included it and suffered through any proceeding piracy.
I think the average person(which represents the bulk buying force) wouldn`t be too clued up or interested in the hacking scene to not buy a legit copy of Starcraft 2, Knowing that it does not have Lan functionality or that any hacked version could offer full game functionality(which most hacked games dont).
When I learned that Starcraft 2 would not have Lan support. I was also furious at the time. I even signed an online petition(which had like 70k or something , signatures).
So anyway, When the game hits the Shelves, You have to buy it.
What other option do you have?. Wait for someone to develop a crack that wont offer full functionality?. Sure, maybe a few scores of individuals, basically the "underground" type would rather wait and play a cracked broken game(Without B.net 2, You cant play ranked games, Cant unlock archievements, Cant publish maps, etc etc. Only thing you could probably do is play singleplayer and against AI) . But the vast majority of people will buy the legit version anyway, because there is no better alternative.
Its like, You cant say people that create hacked(Not talking about "crack" software like playing the game without the cd) versions of the game are necessarily detrimental to sales. Those individuals that hack and the people that choose to play hacked versions(Under its restrictions and often broken functionality) are still few and far between.
There are tons of World of Warcraft free servers out there. Do you see millions of subscription WoW players wanting to leave and join those free servers?. No.
And yes, the knowledge of WoW free servers is pretty common, but people dont want to play on a hacked and poor functional equivalent. Except the underground free loaders society(Which again, is still relatively small. This group cannot and will not ever buy the game, hence their choice).
IF Sc2 had Lan support from Day 1, I would have then just got it off a torrent/borrowed it from a friend/etc. The definition of piracy is so much larger than what most people think.
Just like my Diablo 2, Starcraft 1, Warcraft 3 copies are all cracked and from torrent sites(No Im not proud of it. I did own the games at some point in the past. But hey, Here`s a cool game with Lan support and all 100% functionality and I can do whatever I want with it. Why not get it for free then?). It just becomes so much easier to unknowingly contribute to piracy when a game has lan support, full functionality(aka no b.net 2) etc.
Starcraft 2 actually has sold pretty well. The first 24 hours sold 1 million copies. First month sold 3 million copies. If it had Lan support without B.net 2 etc, believe me, It would have been far less. Only one person would needed to have bought the game in South Korea and have it distributed to everyone there lol.
You know... the best decisions are those that think broadly and ignore self-interest to provide a better quality for others. It's the "sacrifice" that Blizzard was famous for, as they sacrificed Starcraft:Ghost. Sometimes it doesn't matter if that will result in more piracy as long as the consumer is happier. In the end, is this quality that keeps great names like "Blizzard" alive for more than a decade.
Sometimes it doesn't matter if that will result in more piracy as long as the consumer is happier. In the end, is this quality that keeps great names like "Blizzard" alive for more than a decade.
Times are tough. The world economy isn`t exactly stable. If YOU were a shareholder and had to make a decision to eliminate piracy(and thus boost sales by forcing people to have to buy legit copies) or make the average pirate/consumer happy, What would you choose?. Knowing that millions could be at stake?.
Lets be brutally realistic. If you create a game that took 8 years of development time, and spent millions on it production. You have every right to expect and demand that every copy should be bought legitimately.
`True` Blizzard fans and supporters would not whine over lack of lan support, knowing the intention and reasoning behind that decision. Only hypocrites want a "free lunch". The thing with lan support , is that since the primary purpose of this game is the Multiplayer, having lan would so easily see it pirated all over the place.
The thing is, Game companies dont want this industry ending up like the music industry. Some measures they take are sometimes bad, like over-enforced drm etc, but they are learning. I actually find Blizzards model to be fair and flexible enough, while they still maintain control and profit in full from their product/ip.
I hope there is a easycrack version anytime! So we can play SC2 with the good old WC3 customgamelist! And i can invite some friends without original game!
@RodrigoAlves: Go
Times are tough. The world economy isn`t exactly stable. If YOU were a shareholder and had to make a decision to eliminate piracy(and thus boost sales by forcing people to have to buy legit copies) or make the average pirate/consumer happy, What would you choose?. Knowing that millions could be at stake?.
We are terrible to see things at a long-term. Boosting sales now and milking every single fan to earn millions do not seem that bad now. That's why Blizzard is doing it. However, I think a reputation of good quality can bring even more than just millions in the future. A satisfied client is worth more than any money.
Also, good quality is what kept Blizzard famous enough to sell millions of copies of Starcraft 2 in the first day. They sold the game to a lot of people that had never seen not even a screenshot of the game before. They bought it blindly because they trusted Blizzard. This is because of that old reputation of quality over money that Blizzard seems to be losing (and people are blaming Activision for that). As a prove of that, Blizzard's arguments on the forums to say the game was successful is only based on the number of copies sold. A success of a game goes much beyond the number of copies sold.
Anyway, piracy isn't that bad. It was thanks to piracy that many singers got famous. I remember when I was living in Brazil a long time ago and a movie got pirated in HD 3 months before being shown on theaters (Elite Squad). Everybody downloaded and watched the movie. The whole country was talking about it. I didn't download and I wasn't going to watch on the cinema (not interested). But since everyone was talking about how it, I decided to pay and go watch. Not only me, but everyone else. In the end, the piracy caused a 1000x bigger profit to the movie.
Piracy is a strategy. A lot of companies like Microsoft can make really good preventions against pirate Microsoft products, but they don't. Microsoft Office has backdoors for hackers to pirate it and they removed the old version where you had to type the cd-key online. So much pirate Windows with fake cd-keys that can be easily detected on the Microsoft website, but they still allow you to use it. Why? Because piracy makes it more POPULAR! In the end, they sell even more.
To conclude, even though Blizzard might earn a lot more money now by destroying the game's quality to prevent piracy, they might lose things that are a way more important later, and maybe even more money.
I prefer this post to remain alive as well for awareness reasons. I wonder if we can eventually build our own custom map system (or have someone who made this crack do it) and put a war3-esque lobby system to see how it would turn out lol. Then we can finally rest and admit it'll suck (or will it?)...
This has been around for a month. not surprising given the fact that blizzard games are always the most wanted out there. Tbh official LAN support will be out by the time LotV rolls out. From a business's viewpoint, yes you need to earn money for your games, long life cycle for your games can be extended later (by adding LAN support after they've sold the game for a maximum number of customers). The internet is basically making ppl all impatient now. Though I doubt blizzard couple of years from now can make that decision though.
This has been around for a month. not surprising given the fact that blizzard games are always the most wanted out there. Tbh official LAN support will be out by the time LotV rolls out. From a business's viewpoint, yes you need to earn money for your games, long life cycle for your games can be extended later (by adding LAN support after they've sold the game for a maximum number of customers). The internet is basically making ppl all impatient now. Though I doubt blizzard couple of years from now can make that decision though.
lol. And all the people right now saying that Blizzard doesn't want to add LAN because it's obsolete and nobody makes lan games anymore... I wonder how they will feel to see this "obsolete" functionality being added in 3 years from now.
i tested my last melee map for 8 players with 7cps...
i got disconnected.. i was lagging...
i bought star2 for galaxy, ... not being able to play one's own game is silly.. beyond silly it is counterproductive to a decent "community product"...
Best parties i ever got with blizz: 8 shitty pcs in 3 rooms and a hallway.. i would have paid for all copies if i had had to.. very much cherished memories of 20 years ago!
lan is the bridge to console type of gameplay (how players use the game to play it)... it is essential for computer games.. it is the life beyond meager campaigns.. it is the multiplayer facet of the game!
Anyone who feels differently about lan is just not "in the loop" to what's what ...
If "they" (majority/casual players/"bnet is enough don't give a fig about lan" players) are satisfied with such a product/commercial strategy, then that's what we will get from blizz..
if that's the case.. breaking/cracking/stealing/hacking.. etc then everything is justified.. from that point on (say a year after HoS retail tops for ANYONE in the community).. waiting till LoV or even later.. is.. ludicrous stupid and even insane commercial tactic from actwithoutvisionblizz...
Piracy .. like in the music biz..? lol.. Genuine artists have been crushed by the music biz.. talent needing expressing overcomes that shit..
we pay for live music and steal mp3.. thats the return from years of OVERPRICED music (nothing more) .. i for one always buy it afterwards .. if i like it!
i bought all blizz's rts (wow is not one) and stopped when "extensions" started..
of course a good game can be better.. (patches extensions etc) but if its "basis" is impaired, no one can call it stealing (or bad biz) if someone else offers genuinely passionate people "the extension that makes this game "solid" (worth it)..
or else fu ck blizz, let them keep their editor.. letting us have it is a tactical move.. not a generous gesture (tired of hearing that shit)!
Blizz has been playing the community like a banjo for a decade now and that's all cool.. until they make a bad product.. :
bnet=fine
bnet2=fine
bnet compulsory for me playing my games from galaxy... = you kidding me?
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No its not. This would still be just very minimal.
Lack of Lan support actually does eliminate a greater deal of piracy.
Are you sure about that? A similar thread came up a while back about hacking/cracking maps and we took the stance that awareness is better than cloak and daggers. While this is obviously against Blizzard policies, I actually support this in so far as it allows people like me, who have purchased the game, to play with friends sitting in the same room without the ridiculous issues surrounding Battle.Net 2.0.
While I haven't mentioned this in a while, I admitted in the past and will admit again now that I would gladly hack/crack LAN into my already purchased SC2 (when a more stable/reliable version comes out) so that I can finally play with my friends the way I used to. I have yet to play SC2 at any of the recent LAN parties I've had. We STILL play SC 1, AoE 2 and WH40k: DoW 1 instead. It's just not worth trying to cram 8 people online through the same internet connection. I was originally planning on buying 4 copies of SC2 when it came out until I discovered it didn't support LAN. My LAN group had a huge party planned and discussed pre-ordering multiple copies so that we could get together and play it the day it came out. Instead, many of my friends actually opted out of buying the game at all.
Keep in mind that the emphasis is on "already purchased." I find it a disservice that efforts must be made to add a feature to the game that should have been there from the start. (This is one of the few times I'll actually agree with Rodrigo.)
I strongly disagree with this. SC2 was cracked the moment Beta was released. I know this because I personally downloaded and tried this crack to see if it was real (I already had a Beta key at the time). The game was also cracked shortly after retail and is now cracked, yet again, for LAN. I expect that better versions of LAN will come out over time, but the bottom line is there were no issues cracking the game. The only deterrence to cracking being that it was only campaign or melee vs AI.
Ironically, hackers developed their own AI during the Beta that provided a wide range of challenges that mimicked and surpassed the skill of players. I remember people who had the Beta going to this cracked Beta JUST to play against the custom AIs in order to quickly test out their builds.
BTW, the editor has been cracked too.
Blizzard would have done better to include LAN rather than inflame the community and encourage people to crack their game simply because they claimed it "reduces piracy." Anytime you make a statement like that the exact opposite becomes more likely. I believe that by not including LAN (followed by many of the issues in B-Net 2.0), they took a bigger financial hit than if they had included it and suffered through any proceeding piracy.
I think the average person(which represents the bulk buying force) wouldn`t be too clued up or interested in the hacking scene to not buy a legit copy of Starcraft 2, Knowing that it does not have Lan functionality or that any hacked version could offer full game functionality(which most hacked games dont).
When I learned that Starcraft 2 would not have Lan support. I was also furious at the time. I even signed an online petition(which had like 70k or something , signatures).
So anyway, When the game hits the Shelves, You have to buy it.
What other option do you have?. Wait for someone to develop a crack that wont offer full functionality?. Sure, maybe a few scores of individuals, basically the "underground" type would rather wait and play a cracked broken game(Without B.net 2, You cant play ranked games, Cant unlock archievements, Cant publish maps, etc etc. Only thing you could probably do is play singleplayer and against AI) . But the vast majority of people will buy the legit version anyway, because there is no better alternative.
Its like, You cant say people that create hacked(Not talking about "crack" software like playing the game without the cd) versions of the game are necessarily detrimental to sales. Those individuals that hack and the people that choose to play hacked versions(Under its restrictions and often broken functionality) are still few and far between.
There are tons of World of Warcraft free servers out there. Do you see millions of subscription WoW players wanting to leave and join those free servers?. No.
And yes, the knowledge of WoW free servers is pretty common, but people dont want to play on a hacked and poor functional equivalent. Except the underground free loaders society(Which again, is still relatively small. This group cannot and will not ever buy the game, hence their choice).
IF Sc2 had Lan support from Day 1, I would have then just got it off a torrent/borrowed it from a friend/etc. The definition of piracy is so much larger than what most people think.
Just like my Diablo 2, Starcraft 1, Warcraft 3 copies are all cracked and from torrent sites(No Im not proud of it. I did own the games at some point in the past. But hey, Here`s a cool game with Lan support and all 100% functionality and I can do whatever I want with it. Why not get it for free then?). It just becomes so much easier to unknowingly contribute to piracy when a game has lan support, full functionality(aka no b.net 2) etc.
Starcraft 2 actually has sold pretty well. The first 24 hours sold 1 million copies. First month sold 3 million copies. If it had Lan support without B.net 2 etc, believe me, It would have been far less. Only one person would needed to have bought the game in South Korea and have it distributed to everyone there lol.
@EternalWraith: Go
You know... the best decisions are those that think broadly and ignore self-interest to provide a better quality for others. It's the "sacrifice" that Blizzard was famous for, as they sacrificed Starcraft:Ghost. Sometimes it doesn't matter if that will result in more piracy as long as the consumer is happier. In the end, is this quality that keeps great names like "Blizzard" alive for more than a decade.
Times are tough. The world economy isn`t exactly stable. If YOU were a shareholder and had to make a decision to eliminate piracy(and thus boost sales by forcing people to have to buy legit copies) or make the average pirate/consumer happy, What would you choose?. Knowing that millions could be at stake?.
Lets be brutally realistic. If you create a game that took 8 years of development time, and spent millions on it production. You have every right to expect and demand that every copy should be bought legitimately.
`True` Blizzard fans and supporters would not whine over lack of lan support, knowing the intention and reasoning behind that decision. Only hypocrites want a "free lunch". The thing with lan support , is that since the primary purpose of this game is the Multiplayer, having lan would so easily see it pirated all over the place.
The thing is, Game companies dont want this industry ending up like the music industry. Some measures they take are sometimes bad, like over-enforced drm etc, but they are learning. I actually find Blizzards model to be fair and flexible enough, while they still maintain control and profit in full from their product/ip.
I hope there is a easycrack version anytime! So we can play SC2 with the good old WC3 customgamelist! And i can invite some friends without original game!
nice! Love it!
We are terrible to see things at a long-term. Boosting sales now and milking every single fan to earn millions do not seem that bad now. That's why Blizzard is doing it. However, I think a reputation of good quality can bring even more than just millions in the future. A satisfied client is worth more than any money.
Also, good quality is what kept Blizzard famous enough to sell millions of copies of Starcraft 2 in the first day. They sold the game to a lot of people that had never seen not even a screenshot of the game before. They bought it blindly because they trusted Blizzard. This is because of that old reputation of quality over money that Blizzard seems to be losing (and people are blaming Activision for that). As a prove of that, Blizzard's arguments on the forums to say the game was successful is only based on the number of copies sold. A success of a game goes much beyond the number of copies sold.
Anyway, piracy isn't that bad. It was thanks to piracy that many singers got famous. I remember when I was living in Brazil a long time ago and a movie got pirated in HD 3 months before being shown on theaters (Elite Squad). Everybody downloaded and watched the movie. The whole country was talking about it. I didn't download and I wasn't going to watch on the cinema (not interested). But since everyone was talking about how it, I decided to pay and go watch. Not only me, but everyone else. In the end, the piracy caused a 1000x bigger profit to the movie.
Piracy is a strategy. A lot of companies like Microsoft can make really good preventions against pirate Microsoft products, but they don't. Microsoft Office has backdoors for hackers to pirate it and they removed the old version where you had to type the cd-key online. So much pirate Windows with fake cd-keys that can be easily detected on the Microsoft website, but they still allow you to use it. Why? Because piracy makes it more POPULAR! In the end, they sell even more.
To conclude, even though Blizzard might earn a lot more money now by destroying the game's quality to prevent piracy, they might lose things that are a way more important later, and maybe even more money.
I see lots of long posts here.
DON'T WAST YOUR TIME.
End the hostilities we all may need/want LAN diffrently and we all may be against/for Piracy, but really.....................
@grenegg: Go
i agree with u my friend
I prefer this post to remain alive as well for awareness reasons. I wonder if we can eventually build our own custom map system (or have someone who made this crack do it) and put a war3-esque lobby system to see how it would turn out lol. Then we can finally rest and admit it'll suck (or will it?)...
@OneTwoSC: Go
I'm sure the 50 or so people using it will think it's outstanding :P
This has been around for a month. not surprising given the fact that blizzard games are always the most wanted out there. Tbh official LAN support will be out by the time LotV rolls out. From a business's viewpoint, yes you need to earn money for your games, long life cycle for your games can be extended later (by adding LAN support after they've sold the game for a maximum number of customers). The internet is basically making ppl all impatient now. Though I doubt blizzard couple of years from now can make that decision though.
lol. And all the people right now saying that Blizzard doesn't want to add LAN because it's obsolete and nobody makes lan games anymore... I wonder how they will feel to see this "obsolete" functionality being added in 3 years from now.
i did actually play sc2 at a lan at my house...
didn't end up pretty...
skipped it and played dota and css
enough said :'(
why lan?
i tested my last melee map for 8 players with 7cps...
i got disconnected.. i was lagging...
i bought star2 for galaxy, ... not being able to play one's own game is silly.. beyond silly it is counterproductive to a decent "community product"...
Best parties i ever got with blizz: 8 shitty pcs in 3 rooms and a hallway.. i would have paid for all copies if i had had to.. very much cherished memories of 20 years ago!
lan is the bridge to console type of gameplay (how players use the game to play it)... it is essential for computer games.. it is the life beyond meager campaigns.. it is the multiplayer facet of the game!
Anyone who feels differently about lan is just not "in the loop" to what's what ...
If "they" (majority/casual players/"bnet is enough don't give a fig about lan" players) are satisfied with such a product/commercial strategy, then that's what we will get from blizz..
if that's the case.. breaking/cracking/stealing/hacking.. etc then everything is justified.. from that point on (say a year after HoS retail tops for ANYONE in the community).. waiting till LoV or even later.. is.. ludicrous stupid and even insane commercial tactic from actwithoutvisionblizz...
Piracy .. like in the music biz..? lol.. Genuine artists have been crushed by the music biz.. talent needing expressing overcomes that shit..
we pay for live music and steal mp3.. thats the return from years of OVERPRICED music (nothing more) .. i for one always buy it afterwards .. if i like it!
i bought all blizz's rts (wow is not one) and stopped when "extensions" started..
of course a good game can be better.. (patches extensions etc) but if its "basis" is impaired, no one can call it stealing (or bad biz) if someone else offers genuinely passionate people "the extension that makes this game "solid" (worth it)..
or else fu ck blizz, let them keep their editor.. letting us have it is a tactical move.. not a generous gesture (tired of hearing that shit)!
Blizz has been playing the community like a banjo for a decade now and that's all cool.. until they make a bad product.. :
bnet=fine
bnet2=fine
bnet compulsory for me playing my games from galaxy... = you kidding me?