So i just watched HiveWorkshop and i was once again disappointed by StarCraft 2... The new projects for WarCraft 3 are tons, like every day a new project is published, even the Campaign scene is more alive of our own (i mean by "our" that i am part of sc2 community, not that i actually do maps or campaigns), the total amount of campaigns is superior, of course on 13 years it makes sense, but still the new campaigns on the work are still more of sc2 ones... Tomoraider is still kicking with a new project , Malfurion's quest is even now on development (first two chapter was mediocre), by watching Doronsmovies i saw that OutsiderXE itself updated his "Day of the Dragon" campaign (nice models dude) and so much more... And what we have here ? EvindL, Dudki and Narudek our heroes!!! ... Plus that guy with the zerg decal as portrait (i don't remember the name sorry).
How is possible that even modding / campaign scene is so much larger on warcraft 3 ? Why sc2mapster is dead but HiveWorkshop is more alive then ever ? Can't we all migrate to Hive ? Just to try to lure someone to sc2 on their community and grow a bit... I am afraid that this guy is right about competitive scene , and i am afraid also about the modding scene too... How in the hell WC3 and SCBW are still more popular of sc2? How Blizzard is so dumbass with sc2 ? Why David Kim isn't fired yet and substituted by Lalush (the one of depth of micro)...
I want to preempt any argument someone wants to make about money... After the whole DotA fiasco, Blizzard now retains ownership of anything people make as part of their ToS and some would say this pushed mapmakers away. I couldn't disagree with this more - most SC1 custom content was free and not monetized.
I find the major problem has to do with the UI of the Arcade and the complexity of the map editor. We can sort of blame Blizzard for not pushing the Arcade harder and trying more UI updates for it, but they provided us with a VERY powerful tool to make maps. It's so powerful such that the barrier to entry is now much higher than SC1 and WC3 and less people are willing to try making things. I was using the SC1 Editor when I was 12... I couldn't imagine using the SC2 Editor at that age.
That makes the issues with the custom scene much more complex because everyone is looking to blame Blizzard when maybe they should blame themselves... they need to try to make something or, more importantly, actually open the Arcade and play something. I can guarantee that at least 75% of the people complaining don't play on the Arcade at all and there are some really quality maps on there.
The campaign scene in particular is harder to pin down, but I still think it's mostly the editor complexity and depth. It allows creators to dream big... they get started and then things start getting hairy because of the shear amount of things they'll have to learn. Look how many abandoned projects we have here that demonstrates this point! With the older game editors, the limitations were clear and it stopped creators from getting too ambitious too fast.
I'd love to see campaign support like we had in WC3 though. Even so, SC1 had a huge modding community and there was no support from Blizzard in that era, so I don't believe direct campaign support as much of an issue as some would believe (but it would help and be great to have). I think the excitement has simply been lost since Brood War. Many creators from the older era have grown up and newer players looking for content are lazy.
Visit my channel where I showcase custom content! Send me a PM or respond to my YouTube thread if you'd like to see your map/s on my channel (eventually!)
I thought the title is 'I'm going to make a campaign which is WarCraft III vs StarCrat II'.
It's possible that war3 has more mappers since it's easy to access.Same thing in China.
But SCBW? Really? BW mapper scene is completely dead 10 years ago in China, I'm wondering how in western that it can still be more popular than sc2? What are you people doing with that poor editor?
Somewhat backpacking on what others said, I wonder if it's also a generational thing. Since many people have moved on with busy lives and stuff, the new generation that would move into mapping and playing these maps could also be completely different now and less interested in such things. So many love their instant gratification and to play on their phones... Phone games are so boring to me...
WC3 is more likely to have people that started there and just haven't felt like moving on, just like how I think a lot of people who still play WoW only play because they're so heavily invested in it.
That makes the issues with the custom scene much more complex because everyone is looking to blame Blizzard when maybe they should blame themselves... they need to try to make something or, more importantly, actually open the Arcade and play something. I can guarantee that at least 75% of the people complaining don't play on the Arcade at all and there are some really quality maps on there.
i am one of these!
i would, i realy want to, but whenever i join a map that is not on the front page it takes 10 minutes until some1 else joins who leaves within the next 5 minutes again. So how many ppl are in the lobby after 25 minutes?
Singleplayer is not an option for me, how boring feels like the 90s.
I will never win Ultra Tag :(.
Damn OutsiderXE. Destroying the SC2 community from the inside!
In my defense, the response to my WC3 campaigns has been extremely positive over the years. People have created numerous youtube series and I get the feeling they treat it like the campaigns are official products made by blizzard. They often say things like "whenever I replay the original WC3 campaigns I also play yours." On the other hand I personally felt that the campaigns were outdated in terms of looks and gameplay as I had grown as a mapmaker and I knew I could make them better. I have also been critized by SC2 community members who just didn't see what was so special about them. I took all these thought and comments to heart and decided to overhaul the old campaigns, despite being officially resigned from WC3 mapping.
Now on to SC2... Current SC2 campaign has been taking more than 5,5 years to make (First WC3 campaign took me 2,5 years to make. Yes, it's significantly more difficult to create a map, but that's to be expected. I would not wish for Blizzard to make the SC2 editor less effective just to make it easier to use, unless it was an optional feature (like the Wizards being discussed in another thread). I've been working very hard on my SC2 campaign over the past 6 weeks and I plan to release it sometime November/December. Despite that I can't see myself working on any more campaigns in the future. I don't have as much free time and Blizzard doesn't exactly make it easy on campaign makers. Limited space forces huge campaigns to be distributed outside the Arcade, but few players know of this place. They can't play a map unless they test it from inside the editor which feels like a hack to the common player. To hide a map to be viewed from inside the editor mapmakers create campaign launchers, which is additional work. I am in the (unique?) position to create a co-op campaign so I'm forced to deal with the Arcade. Even if I wanted to create more campaigns I couldn't publish them due to the space limitations.
Beside from being a very good game in itself, Warcraft 3 came out when the Lord of the Rings movies were released and I think it got a larger player base by just being a fantasy game at that period, similar to World of Warcraft I presume. The editor and custom maps was also quite unique and since games were smaller in scope and fewer in numbers then I believe more people were inclined to check out custom content when they ran out of official content to play.
SC2 made custom content a bit less available with the clunkiness of the Arcade and the not-so-obvious way to play custom content you've downloaded from some website, so some people probably abandoned SC2 Editor quite early.
But I have to disagree that the SC2 campaign scene being dead-ish. I recall when I began to upload missions in 2012. Then it was really dead. Most projects between 2010 and 2013 were just 1-2 maps or very simplistic, and the number of projects were few. People didn't talk much about custom campaigns at all. It was almost a foreign concept.
Now it seems a new showcase is popping up every week. Many more campaigns are in the making. I can post about making campaigns without feeling like the odd man out. And the new campaigns now have very complex and beautiful missions with good storytelling. It's much better then first years after SC2's release. So while it's not as big as Warcraft3 it is improving.
Perhaps people just had to spend time getting used to the editor before they felt confident enough to produce something they felt were worth publishing. The first big campaigns like Crimson Moon and Mass Recall probably inspired people too, along with Jayborino's youtube channel.
The disparity in complexity between the WC3 and SC2 editor is somewhat overstated, in my opinion, though the length of time since I touched the former may be significant enough to cloud my memory somewhat. Still, in the SC2 editor, it's as easy as to make terrain (if not easier), just as easy to place units, just as easy to do the triggers (save for what I guess will be some exceptions), as in the WC3. It's really just the data editor that is harder to use, and while that is a valuable tool for campaign creation, it is not as important as triggers. In CM, all I did for ten missions in the data editor was to change the name and a few stats of heroes. Still, if a potential campaign creator perceives the editor as being too complex, reality won't matter unless that perception is altered.
The Arcade offers a better argument, I believe. The system rewards popularity and severely punishes unpopularity, making it extremely difficult to market your map, as well as discouraging potential campaign creators because the possibility of getting people to play it is so drastically reduced. To create a campaign, I've learned, requires the ability to, well, not give a shit if it's played or not. I won't admit to being that indifferent to popularity (good feedback and four-digit download numbers do cheer me up), but I've long relinquished the idea of mass popularity. And that's okay, because creating my campaigns is gratifying enough.
Still, I am optimistic. The start was slow, but we're finally beginning to see both the number and quality of campaigns rising. As a pleasant consequence, we also get role models who can not only inspire those sitting on the fence, but also provide templates on how it's done. The importance of that cannot be overstated. I got the idea of using custom music and doing terrain-centric cinematic intros from Mass Recall, and often find myself pushed to a higher level because I know Annihilation exists. In addition, we've now got Jaybo giving us in-depth and passionate publicity on YouTube.
I can't comment much on why WC3 is even better, honestly, as my familiarity with that scene is limited, but I'm sure it's become bigger in time and that it's established role models ensure that it's gonna stay big for a while.
I will also second the point that the campaign scene for SC2 isn't dead now. It was dead before.
Speaking of youtube channels, just curious if people know of more good ones to follow that do custom maps. I've known about Jayborino's probably for about 2 months or so now, and they are pretty good. Before then I watched SCMothership/Infested Mothership, but he seems to have stopped putting out those kinds of videos.
I agree with njordy's and EivindL's statements that the campaign scene is growing and in a good position right now. Also EivindL's statement that it's only the data editor which slows most people down. I use it a lot but to this day I haven't really understood the concept of Actors besides being a connector for other object types (and a way to manipulate visuals for objects).
I believe another reason why SC2 is failing is the lack of heroes. People got so used to use them in WC3 and it was very hard to duplicate this type of unit for SC2. I think I saw more tutorials on making heroes and levelable abilities than anything else in the early day of SC2.
lol: Gamestar.de (biggest pc gaming site in germany I think) released an article with the 10 best editors for games and SC2 is not among them. (They did write a lot of articles about SC2 in the past few weeks). Haven't read it, just skimmed through it, but it the article seems to be focused a lot on the accesibility of the editors.
I'm actually working on an article on the success of the campaign scene, which I intend to post here. I want to use quotes from people involved in the community, so don't be surprised if some of you get a PM from me concerning that. It will cover some of the history and also have us patting each other on the back, saying how great we are. It'll be awesome.
Takes 3 months to make a sc2 map. Takes 3 hours to make a wc3 map.
If your 3 hour map fails, you just don't care. If your 3 month map bombs, you're in for a rough time and a whole lot of blaming.
You can identify bad design early on in wc3 development. With sc2, your map probably has far too many hours invested in it to turn back and correct poor design choices.
But SCBW? Really? BW mapper scene is completely dead 10 years ago in China, I'm wondering how in western that it can still be more popular than sc2? What are you people doing with that poor editor?
I am still a member on the English-speaking mapping community (staredit.net) for SCBW UMS-mapmaking and there it is fairly dead, too. But there were some new discoveries made (e.g. it is possible to write in RAM again... (last time such a possibility has been discovered, Blizzard patched it being afraid of maps distributing malware) SCV shooting Wrath's lazer ) and a new map editor is being worked on, too.
Btw, LotV seems to bring a lot of improvements to the editor: new possibilities, data wizards, tons of tooltips. Releasing a new expansion/game should bring some more momentum to the Arcade, too.
I agree with njordy's and EivindL's statements that the campaign scene is growing and in a good position right now. Also EivindL's statement that it's only the data editor which slows most people down. I use it a lot but to this day I haven't really understood the concept of Actors besides being a connector for other object types (and a way to manipulate visuals for objects).
Actors act like the logic layer combining and controlling sounds, models and animations. It is quite important to have that, else you wouldn't be able to edit a lot.
Speak of which, WC3 once have a mem writing exploit. I had used it for a while, and it later fixed by Blizzard.
Still there is another exploit with the pld files, which allows your to save and write local files.
A LAN platform (pirated) in china even provide men patch to the war3 game and allow the players to access more custom api. Which is a way how they get the most of the users amon all platforms.
I have to say some features it provided are not even exist in Current sc2 editor.
SC2 has many things to do to catch up with the wc3 scene (I'm optimistic though)
It's also sort of a chicken or the egg scenario... Which comes first? Creators making awesome maps to draw a big crowd? Or a crowd that gives creators an incentive to actually make maps?
Let's not kid ourselves... while there are some really great people out there that make maps for themselves as a hobby, we all know that people want their maps played and to bathe in that sweet, sweet positive feedback. WC3 seems to still have that base that plays/gives feedback and it's hard to pinpoint why we don't... it seems that building a community has to happen in tandem with cool maps being made. We definitely already have cool maps though, so I think it's about exposure.
Visit my channel where I showcase custom content! Send me a PM or respond to my YouTube thread if you'd like to see your map/s on my channel (eventually!)
I think it also comes down to simplicity and convenience. Warcraft 3 has both; download the map from a site, put it in your folder, go host a game, and done! Enjoy your game. If it's singleplayer, just put it in your folder and it still appears in the list, you don't need to run it through the editor.
This really helped speed up multiplayer testing. If I wanted to test my WC3 map, I sent it to my friends over Skype and then we played. If I want to test a SC2 map, I have to upload it, make a party and then invite them to play with me.
It doesn't help that you are logged out of SC2 if you are uploading with the editor, and out of the editor if you are playing SC2. A process that was simple and took about 1-2 minutes in WC3, now is more complicated and takes 10-30 minutes. :X
More on-topic, the campaign scene seems much more active nowadays compared to the past. I've seen quite a few in-development campaigns in the past year, and it's been picking up now in 2015.
the fantasy theme in general gives more freedom and basicaly any bs events in that setting make sense unlike sci-fi. = easier to figure out your shit.
The sc2 is such a huge it mixed everything within. It has some magical psionic and protoss, infestation, laser, guns, robots, labs, mech, humanoids, beasts. It's easy to get lost in that freedom when trying to figure out what scenario to choose. Imo.
It also helps that the campaign makers have created a positive competetive environment. You see posts by EivindL and Dudki who keep teasing each other. I see their projects and others and I see stuff I could do better with my own maps.
the fantasy theme in general gives more freedom and basicaly any bs events in that setting make sense unlike sci-fi. = easier to figure out your shit.
Yeah, it feel like even blizzard took a huge dump on the sci-fi setting when they introduced prophecies (although nowadays I like to think of them as a repeating cycle so nothing is really written in stone, it's just how it's been for millenia).
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So i just watched HiveWorkshop and i was once again disappointed by StarCraft 2... The new projects for WarCraft 3 are tons, like every day a new project is published, even the Campaign scene is more alive of our own (i mean by "our" that i am part of sc2 community, not that i actually do maps or campaigns), the total amount of campaigns is superior, of course on 13 years it makes sense, but still the new campaigns on the work are still more of sc2 ones... Tomoraider is still kicking with a new project , Malfurion's quest is even now on development (first two chapter was mediocre), by watching Doronsmovies i saw that OutsiderXE itself updated his "Day of the Dragon" campaign (nice models dude) and so much more... And what we have here ? EvindL, Dudki and Narudek our heroes!!! ... Plus that guy with the zerg decal as portrait (i don't remember the name sorry).
I want to preempt any argument someone wants to make about money... After the whole DotA fiasco, Blizzard now retains ownership of anything people make as part of their ToS and some would say this pushed mapmakers away. I couldn't disagree with this more - most SC1 custom content was free and not monetized.
I find the major problem has to do with the UI of the Arcade and the complexity of the map editor. We can sort of blame Blizzard for not pushing the Arcade harder and trying more UI updates for it, but they provided us with a VERY powerful tool to make maps. It's so powerful such that the barrier to entry is now much higher than SC1 and WC3 and less people are willing to try making things. I was using the SC1 Editor when I was 12... I couldn't imagine using the SC2 Editor at that age.
That makes the issues with the custom scene much more complex because everyone is looking to blame Blizzard when maybe they should blame themselves... they need to try to make something or, more importantly, actually open the Arcade and play something. I can guarantee that at least 75% of the people complaining don't play on the Arcade at all and there are some really quality maps on there.
The campaign scene in particular is harder to pin down, but I still think it's mostly the editor complexity and depth. It allows creators to dream big... they get started and then things start getting hairy because of the shear amount of things they'll have to learn. Look how many abandoned projects we have here that demonstrates this point! With the older game editors, the limitations were clear and it stopped creators from getting too ambitious too fast.
I'd love to see campaign support like we had in WC3 though. Even so, SC1 had a huge modding community and there was no support from Blizzard in that era, so I don't believe direct campaign support as much of an issue as some would believe (but it would help and be great to have). I think the excitement has simply been lost since Brood War. Many creators from the older era have grown up and newer players looking for content are lazy.
Visit my channel where I showcase custom content! Send me a PM or respond to my YouTube thread if you'd like to see your map/s on my channel (eventually!)
Before I saw the content.
I thought the title is 'I'm going to make a campaign which is WarCraft III vs StarCrat II'.
It's possible that war3 has more mappers since it's easy to access.Same thing in China.
But SCBW? Really? BW mapper scene is completely dead 10 years ago in China, I'm wondering how in western that it can still be more popular than sc2? What are you people doing with that poor editor?
The core issue are there:
Other things are all irrelevant. It's never the money or the ownership that make war3 success.
Somewhat backpacking on what others said, I wonder if it's also a generational thing. Since many people have moved on with busy lives and stuff, the new generation that would move into mapping and playing these maps could also be completely different now and less interested in such things. So many love their instant gratification and to play on their phones... Phone games are so boring to me...
WC3 is more likely to have people that started there and just haven't felt like moving on, just like how I think a lot of people who still play WoW only play because they're so heavily invested in it.
i am one of these!
i would, i realy want to, but whenever i join a map that is not on the front page it takes 10 minutes until some1 else joins who leaves within the next 5 minutes again. So how many ppl are in the lobby after 25 minutes?
Singleplayer is not an option for me, how boring feels like the 90s.
I will never win Ultra Tag :(.
hope thats not me
Damn OutsiderXE. Destroying the SC2 community from the inside!
In my defense, the response to my WC3 campaigns has been extremely positive over the years. People have created numerous youtube series and I get the feeling they treat it like the campaigns are official products made by blizzard. They often say things like "whenever I replay the original WC3 campaigns I also play yours." On the other hand I personally felt that the campaigns were outdated in terms of looks and gameplay as I had grown as a mapmaker and I knew I could make them better. I have also been critized by SC2 community members who just didn't see what was so special about them. I took all these thought and comments to heart and decided to overhaul the old campaigns, despite being officially resigned from WC3 mapping.
Now on to SC2... Current SC2 campaign has been taking more than 5,5 years to make (First WC3 campaign took me 2,5 years to make. Yes, it's significantly more difficult to create a map, but that's to be expected. I would not wish for Blizzard to make the SC2 editor less effective just to make it easier to use, unless it was an optional feature (like the Wizards being discussed in another thread). I've been working very hard on my SC2 campaign over the past 6 weeks and I plan to release it sometime November/December. Despite that I can't see myself working on any more campaigns in the future. I don't have as much free time and Blizzard doesn't exactly make it easy on campaign makers. Limited space forces huge campaigns to be distributed outside the Arcade, but few players know of this place. They can't play a map unless they test it from inside the editor which feels like a hack to the common player. To hide a map to be viewed from inside the editor mapmakers create campaign launchers, which is additional work. I am in the (unique?) position to create a co-op campaign so I'm forced to deal with the Arcade. Even if I wanted to create more campaigns I couldn't publish them due to the space limitations.
Beside from being a very good game in itself, Warcraft 3 came out when the Lord of the Rings movies were released and I think it got a larger player base by just being a fantasy game at that period, similar to World of Warcraft I presume. The editor and custom maps was also quite unique and since games were smaller in scope and fewer in numbers then I believe more people were inclined to check out custom content when they ran out of official content to play.
SC2 made custom content a bit less available with the clunkiness of the Arcade and the not-so-obvious way to play custom content you've downloaded from some website, so some people probably abandoned SC2 Editor quite early.
But I have to disagree that the SC2 campaign scene being dead-ish. I recall when I began to upload missions in 2012. Then it was really dead. Most projects between 2010 and 2013 were just 1-2 maps or very simplistic, and the number of projects were few. People didn't talk much about custom campaigns at all. It was almost a foreign concept.
Now it seems a new showcase is popping up every week. Many more campaigns are in the making. I can post about making campaigns without feeling like the odd man out. And the new campaigns now have very complex and beautiful missions with good storytelling. It's much better then first years after SC2's release. So while it's not as big as Warcraft3 it is improving.
Perhaps people just had to spend time getting used to the editor before they felt confident enough to produce something they felt were worth publishing. The first big campaigns like Crimson Moon and Mass Recall probably inspired people too, along with Jayborino's youtube channel.
The disparity in complexity between the WC3 and SC2 editor is somewhat overstated, in my opinion, though the length of time since I touched the former may be significant enough to cloud my memory somewhat. Still, in the SC2 editor, it's as easy as to make terrain (if not easier), just as easy to place units, just as easy to do the triggers (save for what I guess will be some exceptions), as in the WC3. It's really just the data editor that is harder to use, and while that is a valuable tool for campaign creation, it is not as important as triggers. In CM, all I did for ten missions in the data editor was to change the name and a few stats of heroes. Still, if a potential campaign creator perceives the editor as being too complex, reality won't matter unless that perception is altered.
The Arcade offers a better argument, I believe. The system rewards popularity and severely punishes unpopularity, making it extremely difficult to market your map, as well as discouraging potential campaign creators because the possibility of getting people to play it is so drastically reduced. To create a campaign, I've learned, requires the ability to, well, not give a shit if it's played or not. I won't admit to being that indifferent to popularity (good feedback and four-digit download numbers do cheer me up), but I've long relinquished the idea of mass popularity. And that's okay, because creating my campaigns is gratifying enough.
Still, I am optimistic. The start was slow, but we're finally beginning to see both the number and quality of campaigns rising. As a pleasant consequence, we also get role models who can not only inspire those sitting on the fence, but also provide templates on how it's done. The importance of that cannot be overstated. I got the idea of using custom music and doing terrain-centric cinematic intros from Mass Recall, and often find myself pushed to a higher level because I know Annihilation exists. In addition, we've now got Jaybo giving us in-depth and passionate publicity on YouTube.
I can't comment much on why WC3 is even better, honestly, as my familiarity with that scene is limited, but I'm sure it's become bigger in time and that it's established role models ensure that it's gonna stay big for a while.
I will also second the point that the campaign scene for SC2 isn't dead now. It was dead before.
@njordys: Go
Speaking of youtube channels, just curious if people know of more good ones to follow that do custom maps. I've known about Jayborino's probably for about 2 months or so now, and they are pretty good. Before then I watched SCMothership/Infested Mothership, but he seems to have stopped putting out those kinds of videos.
I agree with njordy's and EivindL's statements that the campaign scene is growing and in a good position right now. Also EivindL's statement that it's only the data editor which slows most people down. I use it a lot but to this day I haven't really understood the concept of Actors besides being a connector for other object types (and a way to manipulate visuals for objects).
I believe another reason why SC2 is failing is the lack of heroes. People got so used to use them in WC3 and it was very hard to duplicate this type of unit for SC2. I think I saw more tutorials on making heroes and levelable abilities than anything else in the early day of SC2.
lol: Gamestar.de (biggest pc gaming site in germany I think) released an article with the 10 best editors for games and SC2 is not among them. (They did write a lot of articles about SC2 in the past few weeks). Haven't read it, just skimmed through it, but it the article seems to be focused a lot on the accesibility of the editors.
link: http://www.gamestar.de/specials/spiele/3236436/selber_machen_lassen.html
I'm actually working on an article on the success of the campaign scene, which I intend to post here. I want to use quotes from people involved in the community, so don't be surprised if some of you get a PM from me concerning that. It will cover some of the history and also have us patting each other on the back, saying how great we are. It'll be awesome.
Takes 3 months to make a sc2 map. Takes 3 hours to make a wc3 map.
If your 3 hour map fails, you just don't care. If your 3 month map bombs, you're in for a rough time and a whole lot of blaming.
You can identify bad design early on in wc3 development. With sc2, your map probably has far too many hours invested in it to turn back and correct poor design choices.
I am still a member on the English-speaking mapping community (staredit.net) for SCBW UMS-mapmaking and there it is fairly dead, too. But there were some new discoveries made (e.g. it is possible to write in RAM again... (last time such a possibility has been discovered, Blizzard patched it being afraid of maps distributing malware) SCV shooting Wrath's lazer ) and a new map editor is being worked on, too.
Btw, LotV seems to bring a lot of improvements to the editor: new possibilities, data wizards, tons of tooltips. Releasing a new expansion/game should bring some more momentum to the Arcade, too.
Actors act like the logic layer combining and controlling sounds, models and animations. It is quite important to have that, else you wouldn't be able to edit a lot.
Speak of which, WC3 once have a mem writing exploit. I had used it for a while, and it later fixed by Blizzard.
Still there is another exploit with the pld files, which allows your to save and write local files.
A LAN platform (pirated) in china even provide men patch to the war3 game and allow the players to access more custom api. Which is a way how they get the most of the users amon all platforms.
I have to say some features it provided are not even exist in Current sc2 editor.
SC2 has many things to do to catch up with the wc3 scene (I'm optimistic though)
It's also sort of a chicken or the egg scenario... Which comes first? Creators making awesome maps to draw a big crowd? Or a crowd that gives creators an incentive to actually make maps?
Let's not kid ourselves... while there are some really great people out there that make maps for themselves as a hobby, we all know that people want their maps played and to bathe in that sweet, sweet positive feedback. WC3 seems to still have that base that plays/gives feedback and it's hard to pinpoint why we don't... it seems that building a community has to happen in tandem with cool maps being made. We definitely already have cool maps though, so I think it's about exposure.
Visit my channel where I showcase custom content! Send me a PM or respond to my YouTube thread if you'd like to see your map/s on my channel (eventually!)
Well The inventory system in WC3 was very easy to manipulate. ( item stats / etc )
The one in sc2 is actuelly a nitmare ( except for the one renee made)
The big thing is sure the data of sc2. I remember day1 when i openend the data of sc2 i waa completly lost!
@JayborinoPlays: Go
I think it also comes down to simplicity and convenience. Warcraft 3 has both; download the map from a site, put it in your folder, go host a game, and done! Enjoy your game. If it's singleplayer, just put it in your folder and it still appears in the list, you don't need to run it through the editor.
This really helped speed up multiplayer testing. If I wanted to test my WC3 map, I sent it to my friends over Skype and then we played. If I want to test a SC2 map, I have to upload it, make a party and then invite them to play with me.
It doesn't help that you are logged out of SC2 if you are uploading with the editor, and out of the editor if you are playing SC2. A process that was simple and took about 1-2 minutes in WC3, now is more complicated and takes 10-30 minutes. :X
More on-topic, the campaign scene seems much more active nowadays compared to the past. I've seen quite a few in-development campaigns in the past year, and it's been picking up now in 2015.
the fantasy theme in general gives more freedom and basicaly any bs events in that setting make sense unlike sci-fi. = easier to figure out your shit.
The sc2 is such a huge it mixed everything within. It has some magical psionic and protoss, infestation, laser, guns, robots, labs, mech, humanoids, beasts. It's easy to get lost in that freedom when trying to figure out what scenario to choose. Imo.
It also helps that the campaign makers have created a positive competetive environment. You see posts by EivindL and Dudki who keep teasing each other. I see their projects and others and I see stuff I could do better with my own maps.
Yeah, it feel like even blizzard took a huge dump on the sci-fi setting when they introduced prophecies (although nowadays I like to think of them as a repeating cycle so nothing is really written in stone, it's just how it's been for millenia).