Hopefully I'm not alone here. I suck at SC2 and can't expect to make maps while losing to copper-leaguers. I've lost each and every single one of my ranked matches, and I've lost most of my qualifiers.
Can a mapper still make it while sucking this bad? I don't think so. To be good at game design, especially in an RTS, one has to be able to do fairly well at a game, at least enough to be able to understand why a game works right. Since I clearly don't have that kind of analytical ability, I'm wondering if my IQ is even in three digits. I try my best and suck at it (and every other competitive game I know of), even though I have been gaming since I was five years old.
Anyone else out there who should die in a hole and rot due to their permanent incompetence? Post here! Don't post if you're in silver league or above, or if you have a girlfriend, or if you have a job/car/house/etc.
Hopefully I'm not alone here. I suck at SC2 and can't expect to make maps while losing to copper-leaguers. I've lost each and every single one of my ranked matches, and I've lost most of my qualifiers.
Can a mapper still make it while sucking this bad? I don't think so. To be good at game design, especially in an RTS, one has to be able to do fairly well at a game, at least enough to be able to understand why a game works right. Since I clearly don't have that kind of analytical ability, I'm wondering if my IQ is even in three digits. I try my best and suck at it (and every other competitive game I know of), even though I have been gaming since I was five years old.
Anyone else out there who should die in a hole and rot due to their permanent incompetence? Post here! Don't post if you're in silver league or above, or if you have a girlfriend, or if you have a job/car/house/etc.
Well, are you interested in competitive/hardcore games like Modern Warfare 2, etc? If you are just keep playing and eventually youl see improvement. If your more of a casual player, one who just plays games occasionally or does not see things through/does the minimum/likes shovelware/arcade games, then you should probably stop playing hardcore games.
As a side note, my philosophy on Starcraft:
SC is not fun, it is work. The only thing that keeps you interested is winning.
Dark.Revenant has extensive WC3 mapping experience, knows how both that game and SC2 work inside and out, makes quite polished maps, and is now dying inside because his APM isn't good enough. Big friggin' deal.
Being good at a complex game teaches you key things about it that help you mod, certainly. That, however, is the general case. As long as you know how everything works and can tell an individual player's options in different scenarios, you can mod. As long as you know how terrain chokepoints and resource/item placement affects players' options, you can map. As long as you know how damage stacks up and subtle differences in attack speed and armor type can turn the tide of battle on its head, you can balance. Getting pro at SC2 will definitely help mappers realize all these things. However, it doesn't mean that one cannot know these things and suck at the same time, especially if one has *years of WC3 mapping experience* and the wits that general game design/modding experience gives you.
And it certainly doesn't mean you can't make a decent EVOLVES clone. I mean, jebus, you don't have to be able to micro zerglings through a swarm of carriers to remake something that started as a simple-ass SC1 map.
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My lawyer advised me against mindless killing today.
- Dr. McNinja
I haven't played SC2 melee at all. It simply doesn't interest me. I wouldn't try to make a melee map without understanding the concepts presented regularly to melee players, but I sure know how to make other great custom games. Melee does not relate to your performance as a map maker, unless you're making a melee map.
And even if you're bad at melee, you can always review videos, replays, and competitive discussion groups for ideas and suggestions concerning melee map design. The only point where your skill might really become an issue is in play-testing a melee map, but it's easy enough to make friends with people who would gladly do this for you.
I stopped playing ladder when I realised knowing what to do and having the APM to pull it off faster than the other player are two different things.
If your macro is bad, you're too slow to implement your reaction and you'll get killed even though you saw the spire going up, you saw the mutas being built, cranked out vikings the whole time and it still wasn't enough. Tactics don't seem to matter until you have the APM to execute them faster than the opponent. Maybe I'm getting old...
That just means you can make any map EXCEPT melee. There are many options and nobody really plays unofficial melee maps unless they feature in a Korean league. Don't waste your time - make an UMS map.
No you don't need to be good at SC to make maps. Map making is to change EVERYTHING, ruleset and all, to create new games based on what the developers put in the original version.
That said I suck too, but I still plan on becoming a mapmaker! I do want to make epic games myself.
Well, it isn't needed to make maps lol, but having a good understanding of how SC2 MP works provides solid framework for a good competitive strategically/tactically oriented MP game dynamic.
Make some maps and see if your metagame knowledge stands up on its own. Just throw some pictures out on teamliquid's forums, they are quite good at critiquing if it isn't blatant crap :D Good luck, and if all else fails you can make maps for copper league :p
For the most part I don't think melee skill has anything to do with map-making skill. As long as you have an understanding of how the game works (technical and not necessary strategically), you can make superb maps. If you do suck at melee, though, I suggest you avoid maps that fall under the category of melee category (ex. Adding a new race for a melee Use-map settings game) because you may not be able to balance them in an enjoyable-to-play fashion; that or ensure you are working with someone who has a knack for melee balance.
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Hopefully I'm not alone here. I suck at SC2 and can't expect to make maps while losing to copper-leaguers. I've lost each and every single one of my ranked matches, and I've lost most of my qualifiers.
Can a mapper still make it while sucking this bad? I don't think so. To be good at game design, especially in an RTS, one has to be able to do fairly well at a game, at least enough to be able to understand why a game works right. Since I clearly don't have that kind of analytical ability, I'm wondering if my IQ is even in three digits. I try my best and suck at it (and every other competitive game I know of), even though I have been gaming since I was five years old.
Anyone else out there who should die in a hole and rot due to their permanent incompetence? Post here! Don't post if you're in silver league or above, or if you have a girlfriend, or if you have a job/car/house/etc.
Well, are you interested in competitive/hardcore games like Modern Warfare 2, etc? If you are just keep playing and eventually youl see improvement. If your more of a casual player, one who just plays games occasionally or does not see things through/does the minimum/likes shovelware/arcade games, then you should probably stop playing hardcore games.
As a side note, my philosophy on Starcraft:
SC is not fun, it is work. The only thing that keeps you interested is winning.
I am certainly not a casual gamer. Not even close.
That fact only makes this matter worse.
Dark.Revenant has extensive WC3 mapping experience, knows how both that game and SC2 work inside and out, makes quite polished maps, and is now dying inside because his APM isn't good enough. Big friggin' deal.
Being good at a complex game teaches you key things about it that help you mod, certainly. That, however, is the general case. As long as you know how everything works and can tell an individual player's options in different scenarios, you can mod. As long as you know how terrain chokepoints and resource/item placement affects players' options, you can map. As long as you know how damage stacks up and subtle differences in attack speed and armor type can turn the tide of battle on its head, you can balance. Getting pro at SC2 will definitely help mappers realize all these things. However, it doesn't mean that one cannot know these things and suck at the same time, especially if one has *years of WC3 mapping experience* and the wits that general game design/modding experience gives you.
And it certainly doesn't mean you can't make a decent EVOLVES clone. I mean, jebus, you don't have to be able to micro zerglings through a swarm of carriers to remake something that started as a simple-ass SC1 map.
@BlastYoBoots: Go
I haven't played SC2 melee at all. It simply doesn't interest me. I wouldn't try to make a melee map without understanding the concepts presented regularly to melee players, but I sure know how to make other great custom games. Melee does not relate to your performance as a map maker, unless you're making a melee map.
And even if you're bad at melee, you can always review videos, replays, and competitive discussion groups for ideas and suggestions concerning melee map design. The only point where your skill might really become an issue is in play-testing a melee map, but it's easy enough to make friends with people who would gladly do this for you.
I stopped playing ladder when I realised knowing what to do and having the APM to pull it off faster than the other player are two different things.
If your macro is bad, you're too slow to implement your reaction and you'll get killed even though you saw the spire going up, you saw the mutas being built, cranked out vikings the whole time and it still wasn't enough. Tactics don't seem to matter until you have the APM to execute them faster than the opponent. Maybe I'm getting old...
That just means you can make any map EXCEPT melee. There are many options and nobody really plays unofficial melee maps unless they feature in a Korean league. Don't waste your time - make an UMS map.
Playing in platinum is like creating a map that is very technical.
No you don't need to be good at SC to make maps. Map making is to change EVERYTHING, ruleset and all, to create new games based on what the developers put in the original version.
That said I suck too, but I still plan on becoming a mapmaker! I do want to make epic games myself.
Well, it isn't needed to make maps lol, but having a good understanding of how SC2 MP works provides solid framework for a good competitive strategically/tactically oriented MP game dynamic.
halfthought is correct. I worry about my own abilities to create new games if I can't get a good handle on a current one.
I've narrowed down my failure to inability to micro, though.
I have more losses than wins in copper league o.o
If it makes anyone feel better, i've been Platinum in every reset so far. This reset i've got 4 Platinum teams, :X.
Make some maps and see if your metagame knowledge stands up on its own. Just throw some pictures out on teamliquid's forums, they are quite good at critiquing if it isn't blatant crap :D Good luck, and if all else fails you can make maps for copper league :p
For the most part I don't think melee skill has anything to do with map-making skill. As long as you have an understanding of how the game works (technical and not necessary strategically), you can make superb maps. If you do suck at melee, though, I suggest you avoid maps that fall under the category of melee category (ex. Adding a new race for a melee Use-map settings game) because you may not be able to balance them in an enjoyable-to-play fashion; that or ensure you are working with someone who has a knack for melee balance.