This in reference to the unique feeling you get when playing a map you've never played before...
Whatever your rts skill level, grasp of strategy or general self control when duking it out.
I was just wondering if that feel ever crossed your spines too?
Sure you have seen a minimap jpg of said map, or sure some friend / usual opponent sought you out and explained the basic ins and outs... or you just have experience in the type of map it's supposed to be... (if all that's the case you might not be sweating much, of course)
But the feeling you get playing Lost Temple (or Xelnaga Caverns now) is nothing like playing , an undiscovered map
(LostT&Xel: maps that I get most laddering, what about you ?)
My read is that so much of the potential of the game gets cramped up by not allowing this special spine feeling to become an axiom on which to build on...
(a feeling not unlike the feeling mapmakers get testing alphas, betas...anxiously awaiting the load, hissing for the reboot glitch...)
A totally undiscovered map.
It means you need to play a whole new game that’s what…! Think of the tension, the drama...
Devoid lot's of time (a minute or two) at the start to “get” the map and it’s quirks …change .. oh no, the list of variables is endless… I’ll stop there.
Once you realize that it’s for the game, it’s all good, no?.
It should be better than gravy with chocolate on top.
I could be referencing this for both "normal" and "high" levels of play here... basically everyone who partakes in the love of the game could always benefit from an added value to the game, the contention is over what constitutes a benefit....
To be clear, (I can be misquoted a lot apparently) I'm not as much into playing (laddering or playing Footmen for instance) than I could be, just because I feel far too many people play the maps knowing them by heart... the textures, the layout, the build orders, tactics, you name it....in ums or melee alike...
Is there significant "strategy or showmanship output" going on there ? (of course I'm making it sound lot worse than it is, but still I think it's there...that and the 200/200 mass bla and A attack)
And this can be solved by relying on blizz's fine product
(leveling the field so to say)
Introducing unknown maps...
Blizz has given the mapmaking tool, mapmakers galore are lined up to produce said maps... (have already probably produced superior maps to blizzs laddering "ultra game development designed already great” (20 years in the making)maps ...
imagine your favorite players facing off in a best of 5 (or whatever) with the ace match being on an unknown map (pre accepted by 2 partial third parties (players' coaches or teammate) during the first two matches blablabla)
I picture myself drooling, at the discovery of the map by said players’ first scouting at the end of a heated series, trying to see the type of map and layout and all the rest, AS the players would be discovering them in real time, while they scout feverishly for a “natural”…
Wouldn't you drool guys and gals?
Imagine the map’s standard… it has to please a future winner player and future looser player… annnnnnnnnd the rest of the community
So why are we still mainly watching or playing on "relied upon" "known by heart" conventions...?
Apparently the players/mapmakers are not really ready for that sort of idea... ? There's been huge efforts to get new maps in great tournaments (Blizz chooses for Blizz)... and I'm surprised at how few maps apparently make the cut out there, but not as much as I'm sadden by their total obedience to sc2 "conventions"... nothing to spice it up?
...
I guess my real question is:
has anybody else noticed the huge loss of the black minimap getting "opened up" from sc1 to sc2 ?
(in chess you cannot simulate the move with your piece pond or whatever, you must take it and place it definitively on the board…in sc1 even if you knew the map by heart (and the map was set to that specific option), you still had to deal with the dark unknown, not so on sc2… (and don’t even get it started on the rally issues to go into uncharted territory vs pre “discovered” by blizz to make the maps easier to focus on for players new to the game, meaning everyone…)
So, I was just wondering if that feel ever crossed your spines too? I had it during a holiday marathon where I could never remember the different maps (and we had set it to proper function, and ... good times
Yeah I love that feeling. That's something magical (and I hate to make this bnet reference at the risk of becoming a 'Colt' haha) about the war3 system that I feel is missing. It was awesome finding random new maps every time you went on to play Bnet (This is before the DOTA explosion of course).
Same goes for Counter Strike etc... so fun playing an atmospheric map for the first time. Even WoW: the first month in 2004 when you played and had no idea what you were doing but it was so cool.
Yes, I miss that feeling a lot. Especially because the popular maps are often quite similar in basic gameplay. TDs and tugs for example. I liked seeing completely new gametypes in WC3, but in SC2 most maps on the top of the list are pretty much the same... and even when a map that innovates somehow makes it to the top, after a few weeks... well, that gets old too. Not saying that maps can't entertain me for more than a few weeks. In WC3 I played SWAT and Fortress Survival for months. Rather, I like trying new maps too in addition to the maps that last me a long time and with the current system, fun new maps just don't turn up very often.
Yeah I do hope blizz will be more interest in taking custom map into their ladder/tournament pool.
The point about black mask is that you know everything about the map before hand, the map has to be public, on tournament, on ladder etc... The will be pointless advantages for ppl who study the map and ppl who doesn't care. And it is better for spectator point of view
The idea of campaign black mask is to hide the terrain until you discover or special events happen that can surprise you.
However you can set your melee map to have black mask as well, i'm not sure it can keep the melee status though
Yes, it was fun exploring the myriad of maps in SC1. When War3 came around and did away with the mystery of the maps their symmetry became plain to see, and even though the SC1 maps were symmetrical all the same I guess our ignorance lent to their coolness.
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This in reference to the unique feeling you get when playing a map you've never played before... Whatever your rts skill level, grasp of strategy or general self control when duking it out. I was just wondering if that feel ever crossed your spines too?
Sure you have seen a minimap jpg of said map, or sure some friend / usual opponent sought you out and explained the basic ins and outs... or you just have experience in the type of map it's supposed to be... (if all that's the case you might not be sweating much, of course) But the feeling you get playing Lost Temple (or Xelnaga Caverns now) is nothing like playing , an undiscovered map (LostT&Xel: maps that I get most laddering, what about you ?)
My read is that so much of the potential of the game gets cramped up by not allowing this special spine feeling to become an axiom on which to build on... (a feeling not unlike the feeling mapmakers get testing alphas, betas...anxiously awaiting the load, hissing for the reboot glitch...)
A totally undiscovered map. It means you need to play a whole new game that’s what…! Think of the tension, the drama... Devoid lot's of time (a minute or two) at the start to “get” the map and it’s quirks …change .. oh no, the list of variables is endless… I’ll stop there. Once you realize that it’s for the game, it’s all good, no?. It should be better than gravy with chocolate on top.
I could be referencing this for both "normal" and "high" levels of play here... basically everyone who partakes in the love of the game could always benefit from an added value to the game, the contention is over what constitutes a benefit....
To be clear, (I can be misquoted a lot apparently) I'm not as much into playing (laddering or playing Footmen for instance) than I could be, just because I feel far too many people play the maps knowing them by heart... the textures, the layout, the build orders, tactics, you name it....in ums or melee alike... Is there significant "strategy or showmanship output" going on there ? (of course I'm making it sound lot worse than it is, but still I think it's there...that and the 200/200 mass bla and A attack) And this can be solved by relying on blizz's fine product (leveling the field so to say) Introducing unknown maps... Blizz has given the mapmaking tool, mapmakers galore are lined up to produce said maps... (have already probably produced superior maps to blizzs laddering "ultra game development designed already great” (20 years in the making)maps ... imagine your favorite players facing off in a best of 5 (or whatever) with the ace match being on an unknown map (pre accepted by 2 partial third parties (players' coaches or teammate) during the first two matches blablabla) I picture myself drooling, at the discovery of the map by said players’ first scouting at the end of a heated series, trying to see the type of map and layout and all the rest, AS the players would be discovering them in real time, while they scout feverishly for a “natural”… Wouldn't you drool guys and gals? Imagine the map’s standard… it has to please a future winner player and future looser player… annnnnnnnnd the rest of the community So why are we still mainly watching or playing on "relied upon" "known by heart" conventions...?
Apparently the players/mapmakers are not really ready for that sort of idea... ? There's been huge efforts to get new maps in great tournaments (Blizz chooses for Blizz)... and I'm surprised at how few maps apparently make the cut out there, but not as much as I'm sadden by their total obedience to sc2 "conventions"... nothing to spice it up? ...
I guess my real question is: has anybody else noticed the huge loss of the black minimap getting "opened up" from sc1 to sc2 ?
(in chess you cannot simulate the move with your piece pond or whatever, you must take it and place it definitively on the board…in sc1 even if you knew the map by heart (and the map was set to that specific option), you still had to deal with the dark unknown, not so on sc2… (and don’t even get it started on the rally issues to go into uncharted territory vs pre “discovered” by blizz to make the maps easier to focus on for players new to the game, meaning everyone…)
So, I was just wondering if that feel ever crossed your spines too? I had it during a holiday marathon where I could never remember the different maps (and we had set it to proper function, and ... good times
edit:
@http://www.sc2mapster.com/profiles/OneTwoSC/ "awesome finding random new maps"
the loading screen all black ahhh yes
@http://www.sc2mapster.com/profiles/progammer/ "hope blizz will be more interested in taking custom map into their ladder/tournament pool"
I agree with the optimist stance, but it's not in their interest, they need to not loose control of sc2 like they did sc1 ?
Yeah I love that feeling. That's something magical (and I hate to make this bnet reference at the risk of becoming a 'Colt' haha) about the war3 system that I feel is missing. It was awesome finding random new maps every time you went on to play Bnet (This is before the DOTA explosion of course).
Same goes for Counter Strike etc... so fun playing an atmospheric map for the first time. Even WoW: the first month in 2004 when you played and had no idea what you were doing but it was so cool.
Yes, I miss that feeling a lot. Especially because the popular maps are often quite similar in basic gameplay. TDs and tugs for example. I liked seeing completely new gametypes in WC3, but in SC2 most maps on the top of the list are pretty much the same... and even when a map that innovates somehow makes it to the top, after a few weeks... well, that gets old too. Not saying that maps can't entertain me for more than a few weeks. In WC3 I played SWAT and Fortress Survival for months. Rather, I like trying new maps too in addition to the maps that last me a long time and with the current system, fun new maps just don't turn up very often.
Yeah I do hope blizz will be more interest in taking custom map into their ladder/tournament pool.
The point about black mask is that you know everything about the map before hand, the map has to be public, on tournament, on ladder etc... The will be pointless advantages for ppl who study the map and ppl who doesn't care. And it is better for spectator point of view
The idea of campaign black mask is to hide the terrain until you discover or special events happen that can surprise you.
However you can set your melee map to have black mask as well, i'm not sure it can keep the melee status though
Yes, it was fun exploring the myriad of maps in SC1. When War3 came around and did away with the mystery of the maps their symmetry became plain to see, and even though the SC1 maps were symmetrical all the same I guess our ignorance lent to their coolness.