@Ice_bane: Go
I consider a career in game-development to be something like a rock-star dream. Lots of people want to work with it but few manage to get to a point where they can survive on it. I'd like to have a QA job or something administrative. I'm not much of a career-person. I'l have to finish my master in engineering (soon tm) and then see what state the economy is in. No matter what, though, I will continue to create games. I will probably finish my current project in the sc engine and then move on to android programming. I have a half-finished game that I want to continue working with.
Edit: an alternative to the rock star thing is to see it as a form of cultural work. A lot of people in arts such as painting, acting and music cant survive on it. But they like it so that they work hard on other jobs so that they can afford to live out their passion. Thats probably the best description of where I'm at.
For game development, the title "professional" means nothing and is worth less without it being measured against a benchmark of success.
Some areas of game development are very specialized, and no real formal training or studies can necessarily equip a person for such a field. This is obvious when you take a look at all the bad games out there(*cough diablo 3 cough), and those required skills are often innate.
The thing is, "people" make great successful games. You can be the best level designer out there, but if you're working with guys not good with Game design, Marketing, Graphics, etc etc etc, If one part of the chain breaks the whole thing is broken. Hence the industry is very volatile to studios closing, laying off employees(This could be you one day Icebane), filing for bankruptcy etc.
Every great game ever produced can be the result of sheer coincidence of the right people, at the right time , on the right project. Every other game is the result of people trying to hard when in reality they are not in sync.
So basically, what Im saying is dont use the word "professional" lightly in the context of the game development industry. Its a pitfall.
Yeah, I agree with EW. I guess concidering onself as professional is a bit like a statement of dedication as well, to be contrasted with "hobbyist", "amateur" or "enthusiast". With that said: one can still call oneself a game developer.
A funny observation though which is a bit off-topic: if you are at a party and say you like computer-games, the reaction is usually "meh" (perhaps i'm hangin out on the wrong parties). If you say you like to create you own games, usually with the help of ready made engines; people are much more interested.
Still, the distinction in professional or not can be useful for oneself, as to perhaps make a difference between the "enthusiast" self that likes to tinker with stuff and the "pro" who invests time and money in education and training to master the skills.
@Ice_bane: Go I consider a career in game-development to be something like a rock-star dream. Lots of people want to work with it but few manage to get to a point where they can survive on it. I'd like to have a QA job or something administrative. I'm not much of a career-person. I'l have to finish my master in engineering (soon tm) and then see what state the economy is in. No matter what, though, I will continue to create games. I will probably finish my current project in the sc engine and then move on to android programming. I have a half-finished game that I want to continue working with.
Edit: an alternative to the rock star thing is to see it as a form of cultural work. A lot of people in arts such as painting, acting and music cant survive on it. But they like it so that they work hard on other jobs so that they can afford to live out their passion. Thats probably the best description of where I'm at.
A few years ago I had the exact same point of view as you do. Then I moved to Malmö (for you who don't know, the most southern city in Sweden) and started at The Game Assembly which is a higher vocational education (Yrkeshögskola). This school as since the examination of the first students (2010) had about 80% of the students getting work and stayed in the business. The game industry is currently exploding in Sweden and have been for the latest five years, I already have plenty of friends inside the business and I can tell you it is not the same thing as a musicians rock-star dream - at least not in our country.
However, do not get me wrong, it is NOT a walk in the park. I have been working 10h+ every work day (and at some occasions on weekends) at this school for soon two years and there is a lot of crunching.
Some areas of game development are very specialized, and no real formal training or studies can necessarily equip a person for such a field. This is obvious when you take a look at all the bad games out there(*cough diablo 3 cough), and those required skills are often innate.
Secondly, I disagree with this as I am a student of The Game Assembly in Sweden which has over 80% of their students going directly into the business and staying. I am going to try not to make any opinions and just state simple facts, and take note: I AM NOT saying this to brag, I just want the game-dev world to change. Ubisoft Massive, a AAA studio here in Malmö, Sweden recently promoted a man named Ryan Hawkins as a Lead Artist, he came here just about a nine months ago. Hawkins is one of the starters of Polycount.com which is the world's biggest forum when it comes to game-dev 3D.
He came here with very bad experience from educations involving game development. When he came here he was baffled by interns at Massive which the thought was employees, these in fact were new comers from our school. He openly said that schools educating game-dev in general is really bad but that ours is different.
With this little story said my intentions was to state: it is NOT impossible to create an environment where the students get the conditions to learn enough to get into the business. It requires a lot of pure will power and many late nights from the students alone but it is definetly not impossible.
I'm taking a Computer Science major, and I think my decision had a lot to do with all of Blizzard's editors going back to Starcraft 1. I won't be making maps professionally, but I'll always be making them passionately. It's like blizzard just hands you all these great tools to build yourself a world.
Like Steve Jobs said, the personal computer revolution had everything to do with just computer hobbiest going to their home brew computer club to show off their projects. Jobs also said that these kind of people with these hobbys would have ended up being poets or artists had they been born a few centuries earlier.
I think with that metaphor it's safe to say that everyone here on sc2mapster is an artist or poet. Coming here to the sc2mapster club to show off what we create in our spare time not because we want money and fame, but because we love modding and building worlds.
I specifically chose not to go into a computer science career because I knew that after putting in a full shift of programming, the last thing I would want to do is come home and do it again as a "hobby".
I specifically chose not to go into a computer science career because I knew that after putting in a full shift of programming, the last thing I would want to do is come home and do it again as a "hobby".
I love having the ability to combine the Liberal Arts with Computer Science. Idk I guess I'm just wired that way. You have to see yourself as an artist, not a science wiz, that's close to what Steve Job's vision of the world was.
Plus, I can make insane multiplayer action games with 75% of the programming already done for me.
I would not have been able to make this from scratch very quickly. SC2 is an incredible engine to work off of, hope they have the premium maps feature soon.
I am a senior in high school, and I am going into Computer Science as a major. But here's the thing...
How do you measure success? People already mentioned this. Is success how much money you make? What company you work for? How far up in that company you are?
It all depends on who you ask. My friend's dad works 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. He makes almost $700,000 a year, with 3 days off for Christmas, and I think 4 sick days.
Is it worth it? Maybe. I don't think so. Maybe I'm getting away from the point, which is this. Next year, I'm going to a community college. Not because I'm not smart enough for my college of choice (Purdue), but because I don't feel like spending the money on shit freshman classes. Guess how many CS classes you take freshman year at Purdue? 0. Hmm. Anyways, with all the free time, my friend and I got an apartment and are working on an Indie game. If we make $1000 off of it in total, I will consider it successful.
So... It's relative, I suppose. I sort of think of it as a graph. Follow a plan, work for a company. The harder you work, the more school you go to, the better position you can get to, and the more you can make. Unless you are a genius. Then you just drop out of college (or high school) and just do shit and make billions. But I figure most of us won't be doing that (or have already missed the chance), so...
I'm rambling so much right now, that I can't even make a TL:DR. I'll do it anyways.
yeah 700k doesnt mean shit if you cant enjoy it.... thats lame.
Personally I always thought success, is if you are happy with what you are doing in life. if you are happy then sure. doesnt matter if your a rocket scientist or the guy shoveling cow shit for minimum wage, if you are happy, who cares :P.
Game design is fun, but there are plenty that can just be modded, this is the point for me where I have all the happiness I would get out of creating games right now, I might find more in the future, and while I would like to be involved in the game industry, I wouldnt want to be a programmer, or level designer or anything like that. I would want a consultant job(one of the hardest to get haha and would require experience in places I dont know).
I think with that metaphor it's safe to say that everyone here on sc2mapster is an artist or poet. Coming here to the sc2mapster club to show off what we create in our spare time not because we want money and fame, but because we love modding and building worlds.
I am a senior in high school, and I am going into Computer Science as a major. But here's the thing...
How do you measure success? People already mentioned this. Is success how much money you make? What company you work for? How far up in that company you are?
My first intentions was just that if you are a proffessional it means that you are employed, that's it! :)
If we are talking game development success I would say that the absolute success is when you have finished one of the project's you've always dreamed of, no matter what your position is.
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Heya guys!
The question is simple how many of you are proffessionals when it comes to game development? Or aiming towards becoming?
I'm currently a Level Designer student and I was thinking that I can't be the only one here aiming towards that right?
Please speak up! I'm very curios!
@Ice_bane: Go I consider a career in game-development to be something like a rock-star dream. Lots of people want to work with it but few manage to get to a point where they can survive on it. I'd like to have a QA job or something administrative. I'm not much of a career-person. I'l have to finish my master in engineering (soon tm) and then see what state the economy is in. No matter what, though, I will continue to create games. I will probably finish my current project in the sc engine and then move on to android programming. I have a half-finished game that I want to continue working with.
Edit: an alternative to the rock star thing is to see it as a form of cultural work. A lot of people in arts such as painting, acting and music cant survive on it. But they like it so that they work hard on other jobs so that they can afford to live out their passion. Thats probably the best description of where I'm at.
@Ice_bane: Go
For game development, the title "professional" means nothing and is worth less without it being measured against a benchmark of success.
Some areas of game development are very specialized, and no real formal training or studies can necessarily equip a person for such a field. This is obvious when you take a look at all the bad games out there(*cough diablo 3 cough), and those required skills are often innate.
The thing is, "people" make great successful games. You can be the best level designer out there, but if you're working with guys not good with Game design, Marketing, Graphics, etc etc etc, If one part of the chain breaks the whole thing is broken. Hence the industry is very volatile to studios closing, laying off employees(This could be you one day Icebane), filing for bankruptcy etc.
Every great game ever produced can be the result of sheer coincidence of the right people, at the right time , on the right project. Every other game is the result of people trying to hard when in reality they are not in sync.
So basically, what Im saying is dont use the word "professional" lightly in the context of the game development industry. Its a pitfall.
Yeah, I agree with EW. I guess concidering onself as professional is a bit like a statement of dedication as well, to be contrasted with "hobbyist", "amateur" or "enthusiast". With that said: one can still call oneself a game developer.
A funny observation though which is a bit off-topic: if you are at a party and say you like computer-games, the reaction is usually "meh" (perhaps i'm hangin out on the wrong parties). If you say you like to create you own games, usually with the help of ready made engines; people are much more interested.
Still, the distinction in professional or not can be useful for oneself, as to perhaps make a difference between the "enthusiast" self that likes to tinker with stuff and the "pro" who invests time and money in education and training to master the skills.
computer engineering student here :'<
A few years ago I had the exact same point of view as you do. Then I moved to Malmö (for you who don't know, the most southern city in Sweden) and started at The Game Assembly which is a higher vocational education (Yrkeshögskola). This school as since the examination of the first students (2010) had about 80% of the students getting work and stayed in the business. The game industry is currently exploding in Sweden and have been for the latest five years, I already have plenty of friends inside the business and I can tell you it is not the same thing as a musicians rock-star dream - at least not in our country.
However, do not get me wrong, it is NOT a walk in the park. I have been working 10h+ every work day (and at some occasions on weekends) at this school for soon two years and there is a lot of crunching.
Firstly, I want to respond to this. My intentions with this post was to ask how many here who did games for a living, not any prestige measurements.
Secondly, I disagree with this as I am a student of The Game Assembly in Sweden which has over 80% of their students going directly into the business and staying. I am going to try not to make any opinions and just state simple facts, and take note: I AM NOT saying this to brag, I just want the game-dev world to change. Ubisoft Massive, a AAA studio here in Malmö, Sweden recently promoted a man named Ryan Hawkins as a Lead Artist, he came here just about a nine months ago. Hawkins is one of the starters of Polycount.com which is the world's biggest forum when it comes to game-dev 3D.
He came here with very bad experience from educations involving game development. When he came here he was baffled by interns at Massive which the thought was employees, these in fact were new comers from our school. He openly said that schools educating game-dev in general is really bad but that ours is different.
With this little story said my intentions was to state: it is NOT impossible to create an environment where the students get the conditions to learn enough to get into the business. It requires a lot of pure will power and many late nights from the students alone but it is definetly not impossible.
Thanks for the response!
I'm taking a Computer Science major, and I think my decision had a lot to do with all of Blizzard's editors going back to Starcraft 1. I won't be making maps professionally, but I'll always be making them passionately. It's like blizzard just hands you all these great tools to build yourself a world.
Like Steve Jobs said, the personal computer revolution had everything to do with just computer hobbiest going to their home brew computer club to show off their projects. Jobs also said that these kind of people with these hobbys would have ended up being poets or artists had they been born a few centuries earlier.
I think with that metaphor it's safe to say that everyone here on sc2mapster is an artist or poet. Coming here to the sc2mapster club to show off what we create in our spare time not because we want money and fame, but because we love modding and building worlds.
I specifically chose not to go into a computer science career because I knew that after putting in a full shift of programming, the last thing I would want to do is come home and do it again as a "hobby".
I love having the ability to combine the Liberal Arts with Computer Science. Idk I guess I'm just wired that way. You have to see yourself as an artist, not a science wiz, that's close to what Steve Job's vision of the world was.
Plus, I can make insane multiplayer action games with 75% of the programming already done for me.
I would not have been able to make this from scratch very quickly. SC2 is an incredible engine to work off of, hope they have the premium maps feature soon.
I started editing Warcraft III when i was 10 but all i programmed there was utter garbage XD
I started Starcraft II during the beta when i was 16, and it took off for me as my favorite thing too do...
I am now in college getting my degree in computer science so i can do this thing for a living :D
I am a senior in high school, and I am going into Computer Science as a major. But here's the thing...
How do you measure success? People already mentioned this. Is success how much money you make? What company you work for? How far up in that company you are?
It all depends on who you ask. My friend's dad works 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. He makes almost $700,000 a year, with 3 days off for Christmas, and I think 4 sick days.
Is it worth it? Maybe. I don't think so. Maybe I'm getting away from the point, which is this. Next year, I'm going to a community college. Not because I'm not smart enough for my college of choice (Purdue), but because I don't feel like spending the money on shit freshman classes. Guess how many CS classes you take freshman year at Purdue? 0. Hmm. Anyways, with all the free time, my friend and I got an apartment and are working on an Indie game. If we make $1000 off of it in total, I will consider it successful.
So... It's relative, I suppose. I sort of think of it as a graph. Follow a plan, work for a company. The harder you work, the more school you go to, the better position you can get to, and the more you can make. Unless you are a genius. Then you just drop out of college (or high school) and just do shit and make billions. But I figure most of us won't be doing that (or have already missed the chance), so...
I'm rambling so much right now, that I can't even make a TL:DR. I'll do it anyways.
TL:DR: I have no idea WTF I'm saying.
Great to be back and part of the community again!
@TacoManStan: Go
yeah 700k doesnt mean shit if you cant enjoy it.... thats lame.
Personally I always thought success, is if you are happy with what you are doing in life. if you are happy then sure. doesnt matter if your a rocket scientist or the guy shoveling cow shit for minimum wage, if you are happy, who cares :P.
Game design is fun, but there are plenty that can just be modded, this is the point for me where I have all the happiness I would get out of creating games right now, I might find more in the future, and while I would like to be involved in the game industry, I wouldnt want to be a programmer, or level designer or anything like that. I would want a consultant job(one of the hardest to get haha and would require experience in places I dont know).
How do you work that one out?
I think this is a good one! :)
My first intentions was just that if you are a proffessional it means that you are employed, that's it! :)
If we are talking game development success I would say that the absolute success is when you have finished one of the project's you've always dreamed of, no matter what your position is.