SC2Mapster

Hi, so terraining def isn't my forte but I'm trying.

My map features a sort of "untouched" alpine forest (think Haven tileset), but something still feels off about it. Ideas? Doodad recommendations? Constructive (or destructive) criticisms?

Alright, so let me try to be as concise as possible.

Things I like:

1. Your elevation is great. The trees on the hilly bits make the whole thing feel realistic. It's not that you can't add trees on the slopes (you'd have to tilt them slightly, probably), but your forest as a whole forms a natural focal point now; it draws the attention of the viewer as a whole and doesn't feel like "a random collection of trees".
2. The lake in the background. It adds to the atmosphere.
3. Your texture use as a whole is pretty nice. You've already figured out that rocky bits work best on the slopes to make them stand out more.
4. Cliffs as well as elevation make the terrain in its entirety feel more varied.

Now, this isn't just me complimenting you. Coming up is a bit on how you can improve the terrain, but I want you to keep the above four points in mind as you go along. Those four things are the kind of approaches/concepts you need to keep doing as you add to the terrain.

Things you could improve:
1. First of all, the terrain is too empty. It needs more 'stuff'. In your case, it could do with more trees in general. You will need to group them together somewhat to create focal points and avoid the "collection of random doodads"-syndrome (CORDS... I should start using that abbreviation), but you also need to make sure you place enough of these 'clumps' to make the whole area feel like a forest. Right now it feels like two separate forests and a huge clearing. Place your clumps in such a way that it looks like they naturally grew in that direction. A comparison I like to make in my head is the structure of water, which flows and spreads out naturally, as opposed to a man-made curb, which was clearly laid down with a purpose and in a specific direction. Make sure you make some trees larger than others to make the whole thing seem varied (though don't go overboard or it'll just look bizarre), and compliment the clumps with plants and smaller rocks on the edges to make their borders seem more natural.

2. Next, your texture work. It's not bad at all (especially if terraining isn't your forte), but I think you can make it a little bit better. Try and keep doing what you have been doing and put textures where they make sense: dark grass and brush under the foresty bits, rocky texture on hilly bits, light grass everywhere else. Play around with the lake to figure out what works best for it.

3. Last but not least, the lake. It's nice as it is, but since there is a cliff located behind it anyway, consider making that area more elevated/cliffy, adding a river, and a waterfall going down into the lake. Rather than a still forest pond it would feel a little less static and add potential eyecandy.

As a last note, keep the following in mind: borders between inaccessible/unpathable areas and walkable areas need to be clear enough for players to register them subconsciously, but vague enough to seem realistic. At the same time, terrain that has to stay walkable for gameplay reasons (and can't simply be filled up with doodads) will require texture play and smaller doodads (such as small rocks) as well as foliage later-on to make them appealing.

This should be more than enough to get you well on your way; be sure to report back to us when you've gone through all that with some more screenshots! I'm curious to see how you'll develop this.

Thanks for your insight. Here's what I have done to make it better. Also a closeup on the body of water.

Also, because why not... here's a pic a little further back toward the main base. :) Incorporated your ideas. Also I like the scenic lookout from the minerals.

@Bilxor: Go

It's looking quite good! You've made the forest borders near the cliff work very well. Here are some additional tips:

1. If you want to keep the forest borders as they are, you're going to need a lot more texture play to make the open bits look cool. I'd suggest adding at least two or three trees or medium-sized rocks (of course surrounded by bushes, plants and/or small rocks), but if you don't want to, you're going to have to get very creative. Now, don't get me wrong: if terraining isn't your forte this may be hard to pull off (this kind of stuff is the reason why we have 'terrainers' as specialists alongside 'data editors' or 'scripters'), but ideally playable open areas require a crapload of texture play and ground doodads to make them interesting (pictures from the old TeamLiquid Map Art Thread, by eTcetRa and fenX). A simpler but slightly more performance-heavy way to make the area interesting is by throwing down a crapload of foliage there. Just remember to do this when your terrain is completely finished otherwise so you know exactly where to paint foliage.

2. In regards to your waterfall: you did a pretty good job, but the waterfalls themselves still seem a bit empty. Try adding some trees on the land around (and between) them and hanging some vines (doodads) from the rocks. Maybe a scaled down rock arch to make the entire thing a bit more eye-catching.

3. In your last screenshot, the border between walkable terrain and unpathable terrain (the lake) is a bit unclear. This is what I meant when I told you to pay attention to this issue in the first post; perhaps you can try and make this clearer, especially on the left side? Make the area a bit less steep, perhaps, and add some trees along the lake.

@Bilxor: Go

It's looking better, but the groundcover still needs work. My recommendation would be to try to extends that small little pond below the waterfall into a stream that goes down one of the "lanes." That would help the bland look of the ground, and give the map a feeling of continuity. As for the rest of it, you could try spattering some small plants around on the grass, as well as enabling foliage and playing with the grass settings.

Thanks everyone. Yeah foliage will be my final touch I think when I finish the map. I'm just sort of stuck as to what doodads to use... Zerus ones look out of place, and I feel like I'm overusing rocks and bushes.

@Bilxor: Go

There is no overusing rocks or bushes. You can use different rock type doodads in different sizes to keep the formations interesting, and bushes look different if you just adjust the rotation a bit. They are basically the tree doodads of a more micro level terrain.