I think a good thing to keep in mind while terraining is, "is this something I can imagine seeing in real life?" Even natural settings have an order to them, ie: random clumps of trees, no perfect lines without human intervention... asymmetry, etc etc. And the ground textures generally should reflect this, ie: clumps of trees wouldn't normally grow out of the sand, etc etc...
In regards to what QMJ3 said, I'll give a small nudge to my Terraining for Dummies tutorial, under layer 2. Some things look better if they're in tune with reality, other things tend to make no sense at all but still look better than if you were to make them more realistic. You need to developt a bit of a feel for it.
I agree. To do some nice terrain you need to THINK it. You have water? Well, terrain under water is wet, sticky... and probably even ugly and stinky if it's mud! Around this water, vegetation is abundant. Because plants feed from water. Wild animals live close to this water, hidden close to trees. If the water is a whole sea, let's see waves, raising water, sand on the coast, rocks, cliffs... Nature is also random sometimes. You mustn't say "here, it's green grass. here, water. here, woods."... You would rather add a tree or two on the grass, and add more as it comes closer to the area you want to be a forest. And water is not always a deep hole, don't forget puddles. Don't draw paths without adding some grass or leaves that covers it in some places. It gives some kind of history to the place, everything is here because there is a reason to.
Grass over a path would mean the path is quite old, and not used often enough by humans to dry the ground it is on, so the nature is slowing covering the tracks of civilization. Leaves, falling from trees, do the same. Basically, when creating a map based on nature, you need to go wild and a bit random. Show that the nature is stronger than human beings, it is everywhere and will ever be. The civilisation, with its structures, its roads (and so on), came later. So they either covered the whole place with concrete to make it flat, or they added structures in points of interests (water for food, heights for a clear view, etc...). Every single thing needs to have a purpose.
You need to use more textures, because when you walk in a forest, there is not only leaves on the ground. There is mud, dirt, grass, moss, leaves, fallen trees, trunks, plants... life! In one word: History! Nature is a giant pot where everything melts. You can find rocks along roads, plants growing under concrete, and pools completely dried out (even next to a river). Anyway, natural maps are the easiest to make in my opinion, because it allows to be more random than if you were doing a city, where everything has its place and purpose.
These guys talk about terraining looking for it to look real.... too bad real does not = balanced
You're making a completely moot point? Obviously, if you're making a map that relies heavily on terrain for balance, you don't want to forego balance for terrain. That doesn't mean terrain can't look well and be balanced at the same time?
@Dalemil: Go
It already looks better now, don't you think? I don't know if it's the lighting you chose, but it seems like your map is still entirely green (even peaks). I'd edit the lighting if it's the reason... If not, then it's probably because your map still needs to use more textures. Try putting some dirt or some rocky ground on top of hills and on slopes using the noise painting tool. If it doesn't look that good, try anything that would look better, try to smoothen it, mix up to 3 textures until you get something decent. Basically the higher the ground is, the best chance you have to find rough/rocky surfaces where even trees don't dare to grow. Plants do, however.
Water always takes its source from high points (which is why water flows in rivers: it falls from heights and makes its way to the bottom). In your map however, water needs to stay on low grounds, it most likely came from rain rather than a high water source. By the way, mist appears mostly in the morning. Your lighting seems to suggest it's dusk/night, so it's not fitting. I personally don't like the clouds/weather doodads in the editor because most of the time they're either too visible, or not enough. You can edit them though (select one of them and press enter), to modify their color and HDR so that it will be more in harmony with your terrain. Avoid green mist at all cost. Mist can't be anything more than grey with a slight blue-ish tint (mist is water in the air, so...). If you want to make a very green-ish land fit with blue-ish mist (these colors do not fit easily together, try and you'll see), the only option left is to add fog. It will make your green terrain a bit less "flashy", which is good since you want it to fit with your grey fog. Either that, or make your terrain more grey-ish by adding dirt, mud, rocky ground, etc. It takes time to make something that will fit, but it's worth it. I use to say "a good map is at least 7 days of work" (feeling like God already? :P )...
I think it looks way better. But it's not about me. What do YOU think of your map now? Are you proud of what you did? Can you see the progress made or not, and do you know why this map looks better? It's the only thing that matters, that's how you will be able to criticize your own work and make it better and better each time. You can't do maps that everyone will like anyway, so as long as you're proud of what you have done, our opinion does not count.
Trying adding some doodads now, maybe you'll find good ideas while browsing the huge list. Add units, structures, and see if it fits with what you expected.
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i made this in my spare time, and i want to make something out of it. right now i'm just looking for terrain feedback
It looks very.... empty, is there any story behind it or scene?
@Dalemil: Go
I think a good thing to keep in mind while terraining is, "is this something I can imagine seeing in real life?" Even natural settings have an order to them, ie: random clumps of trees, no perfect lines without human intervention... asymmetry, etc etc. And the ground textures generally should reflect this, ie: clumps of trees wouldn't normally grow out of the sand, etc etc...
Add more. :)
In regards to what QMJ3 said, I'll give a small nudge to my Terraining for Dummies tutorial, under layer 2. Some things look better if they're in tune with reality, other things tend to make no sense at all but still look better than if you were to make them more realistic. You need to developt a bit of a feel for it.
@Mozared: Go
ok, so i went back and got rid of all the doodads and made the terrain rougher.
I liked it the first time around...
These guys talk about terraining looking for it to look real.... too bad real does not = balanced
The first version of the map looks good for a simple multi player map.
And actually yes trees can grow out of sand... or sandy dirt.
I agree. To do some nice terrain you need to THINK it. You have water? Well, terrain under water is wet, sticky... and probably even ugly and stinky if it's mud! Around this water, vegetation is abundant. Because plants feed from water. Wild animals live close to this water, hidden close to trees. If the water is a whole sea, let's see waves, raising water, sand on the coast, rocks, cliffs... Nature is also random sometimes. You mustn't say "here, it's green grass. here, water. here, woods."... You would rather add a tree or two on the grass, and add more as it comes closer to the area you want to be a forest. And water is not always a deep hole, don't forget puddles. Don't draw paths without adding some grass or leaves that covers it in some places. It gives some kind of history to the place, everything is here because there is a reason to.
Grass over a path would mean the path is quite old, and not used often enough by humans to dry the ground it is on, so the nature is slowing covering the tracks of civilization. Leaves, falling from trees, do the same. Basically, when creating a map based on nature, you need to go wild and a bit random. Show that the nature is stronger than human beings, it is everywhere and will ever be. The civilisation, with its structures, its roads (and so on), came later. So they either covered the whole place with concrete to make it flat, or they added structures in points of interests (water for food, heights for a clear view, etc...). Every single thing needs to have a purpose.
You need to use more textures, because when you walk in a forest, there is not only leaves on the ground. There is mud, dirt, grass, moss, leaves, fallen trees, trunks, plants... life! In one word: History! Nature is a giant pot where everything melts. You can find rocks along roads, plants growing under concrete, and pools completely dried out (even next to a river). Anyway, natural maps are the easiest to make in my opinion, because it allows to be more random than if you were doing a city, where everything has its place and purpose.
You're making a completely moot point? Obviously, if you're making a map that relies heavily on terrain for balance, you don't want to forego balance for terrain. That doesn't mean terrain can't look well and be balanced at the same time?
all right, here we go:
i added some fog, foliage, rocks, and trees around the puddles along with some trees on the mountains.
i uniformed the Haven Leaves paint to make it look like it fit and then placed dirt around the tree clumps.
i maintained the general layout of the map and it still looks balanced to my eyes although the rocks may get in the way.
@Dalemil: Go It already looks better now, don't you think? I don't know if it's the lighting you chose, but it seems like your map is still entirely green (even peaks). I'd edit the lighting if it's the reason... If not, then it's probably because your map still needs to use more textures. Try putting some dirt or some rocky ground on top of hills and on slopes using the noise painting tool. If it doesn't look that good, try anything that would look better, try to smoothen it, mix up to 3 textures until you get something decent. Basically the higher the ground is, the best chance you have to find rough/rocky surfaces where even trees don't dare to grow. Plants do, however.
Water always takes its source from high points (which is why water flows in rivers: it falls from heights and makes its way to the bottom). In your map however, water needs to stay on low grounds, it most likely came from rain rather than a high water source. By the way, mist appears mostly in the morning. Your lighting seems to suggest it's dusk/night, so it's not fitting. I personally don't like the clouds/weather doodads in the editor because most of the time they're either too visible, or not enough. You can edit them though (select one of them and press enter), to modify their color and HDR so that it will be more in harmony with your terrain. Avoid green mist at all cost. Mist can't be anything more than grey with a slight blue-ish tint (mist is water in the air, so...). If you want to make a very green-ish land fit with blue-ish mist (these colors do not fit easily together, try and you'll see), the only option left is to add fog. It will make your green terrain a bit less "flashy", which is good since you want it to fit with your grey fog. Either that, or make your terrain more grey-ish by adding dirt, mud, rocky ground, etc. It takes time to make something that will fit, but it's worth it. I use to say "a good map is at least 7 days of work" (feeling like God already? :P )...
@ZealNaga: Go
I think it looks way better. But it's not about me. What do YOU think of your map now? Are you proud of what you did? Can you see the progress made or not, and do you know why this map looks better? It's the only thing that matters, that's how you will be able to criticize your own work and make it better and better each time. You can't do maps that everyone will like anyway, so as long as you're proud of what you have done, our opinion does not count.
Trying adding some doodads now, maybe you'll find good ideas while browsing the huge list. Add units, structures, and see if it fits with what you expected.