hey ppl. Got some free time lately and want try to assemble some pieces of work in a playable map. I have just started, but i want some early warnings from terraining veterans to not screw up my map at early stage. Also i want to ask if it is acceptable doodad saturation or it is overwhelming right now. The map is ment to be single rpg :/ . Here is little piece i have so far:
So far it looks good maybe some temple debris will add to the scenic look of the map. Also you can add some fallen trees from the Void campaign they really look good with that terrain.
i'm realy lacking of any appropriate walls. I checked aiur wall doodads from LotV but their color looks off (not enough greenish). Couldn't find any better than those column walls from WoL. Also was shocked that after 3 expansions there are no fountain kind of doodad. Just made this ugly abomination from spout doodads. holy shit... lame.
You're doing great so far. I've got three tips that I think are useful for anyone:
1) Think natural or man-made, depending on the terrain you're making. The main thing a terrain needs to do to be good looking is 'make sense'. It's relatively hard to pinpoint why a terrain is ugly to the average player, but 9/10 times the reason behind it comes down to "the terrain doesn't make sense". If you put a plant in the middle of a concrete ground, people are going to subconsciously notice/feel like something is off, but few will think about it long enough to realize that a plant growing out of concrete makes no sense. This is sort of a mindset you should adopt while terraining. Whenever you place a doodad, ask yourself: "why is this doodad here? does it make sense in this spot?". It sounds tedious on paper, but in reality you'll eventually start doing this automatically and it will stop costing you any time. One such example that applies to your map is: where is the water coming from? It seems to just be flowing from a pillar. Since the map takes place on a Protoss planet it could be reasoned that they've used technology/'magic' to use this effect, but wouldn't it be better if you had a mountain range with a flowing river behind the temple to supply the water?
The reason I'm putting this point first is because it's a broad approach to terraining, and practically all other tips I can give you flow from this mindset. I'll demonstrate with point 2 and 3.
2) Don't build 'blocks' of terrain. Make sure that different areas in the terrain make sense. You don't make one area 'pure sand-desert with rolling dunes' and then the next one 'concrete base'. If you're going to do this, you need a 'border' area where the two meet; think perhaps a cliff-style wall that has a bunch of sand blown up one side, with the concrete only being found on the wall and in the base. On the flipside, if you're seeking to make a derelict/abandoned 'concrete base' next to a sand-desert, the border is going to be vaguer as there should be sand all over the base. In your case: if you keep building temples in the jungle like you've now done, make sure they look overgrown with plants. They realistically would be. Simultaneously, use something like a deep canyon with a bridge to easily separate jungle-heavy zones from more city-like zones.
3) Last but not least, an issue on an even smaller scale. One rookie mistake when it comes to terraining is simply placing a crapload of doodads together and hoping it looks good. Overuse of the foliage function ties into this. The prime example that people do this with is trees. Google 'forest' and take a moment to observe what forests actually look like. Even the most overgrown ones tend to have clumps of 'stuff'. A tree or rock surrounded with moss or smaller shrubs, or bushes located closely together. Rarely, if ever, do these elements stand by themselves. As such, when terraining in the editor, this is where one uses what I've dubbed 'focal points'. This picture from the Blizzard terrain tutorial demonstrates what I mean well enough: the rocks you see are clumped together, there is no single 'lone rock' just 'lying around'. The follow-up picture shows how everything comes together when trees are added, also in focal points. Note how the bushes are fitted in neatly near the right-most rocks.
I've dubbed 'focal points' this way because they are small collections of doodads that subconsciously draw your players' attention. You're seeking to avoid a "blanket spree" of random doodads that make the map confusing and hard to navigate.
The Blizzard terrain tutorial is a pretty good place for some simple examples of what I've said above, and some basic tips. Hope all of this helps!
thanks, a lot of your points make sense for sure. But i'm confused how to make good looking canyon / precipice / break. I want it to feels fitting, not just random.
for p2):
I'm planning to make a lot of open areas, because i want to use unit movement in engagements and a fancy aoe spells, so i'm not planning to turn my map in anthill, where there will be dozens of different rooms and no place to disperse. Planning to make like 5-6 key areas, all will be using the same tileset. Just some more dirt while others bricks.
To make a good canyon, you follow the above steps. Ask yourself if the canyon makes sense. Use dirt and rocky textures to delineate one 'zone' from the other, and make sure there's plenty of mountainous and hilly zones nearby to make the canyon feel like it's not out of place. Perhaps even lower or raise all the cliffs near it. Possibly you can even show what caused the canyon to come into existence based on the lore behind your map: a huge crashed battlecruiser somewhere at the end of it?
Open areas are a challenge in themselves, but feel free to keep checking back here and we'll be able to give you more in-depth comments :)
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hey ppl. Got some free time lately and want try to assemble some pieces of work in a playable map. I have just started, but i want some early warnings from terraining veterans to not screw up my map at early stage. Also i want to ask if it is acceptable doodad saturation or it is overwhelming right now. The map is ment to be single rpg :/ . Here is little piece i have so far:
So far it looks good maybe some temple debris will add to the scenic look of the map. Also you can add some fallen trees from the Void campaign they really look good with that terrain.
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i'm realy lacking of any appropriate walls. I checked aiur wall doodads from LotV but their color looks off (not enough greenish). Couldn't find any better than those column walls from WoL. Also was shocked that after 3 expansions there are no fountain kind of doodad. Just made this ugly abomination from spout doodads. holy shit... lame.
You're doing great so far. I've got three tips that I think are useful for anyone:
1) Think natural or man-made, depending on the terrain you're making. The main thing a terrain needs to do to be good looking is 'make sense'. It's relatively hard to pinpoint why a terrain is ugly to the average player, but 9/10 times the reason behind it comes down to "the terrain doesn't make sense". If you put a plant in the middle of a concrete ground, people are going to subconsciously notice/feel like something is off, but few will think about it long enough to realize that a plant growing out of concrete makes no sense. This is sort of a mindset you should adopt while terraining. Whenever you place a doodad, ask yourself: "why is this doodad here? does it make sense in this spot?". It sounds tedious on paper, but in reality you'll eventually start doing this automatically and it will stop costing you any time. One such example that applies to your map is: where is the water coming from? It seems to just be flowing from a pillar. Since the map takes place on a Protoss planet it could be reasoned that they've used technology/'magic' to use this effect, but wouldn't it be better if you had a mountain range with a flowing river behind the temple to supply the water?
The reason I'm putting this point first is because it's a broad approach to terraining, and practically all other tips I can give you flow from this mindset. I'll demonstrate with point 2 and 3.
2) Don't build 'blocks' of terrain. Make sure that different areas in the terrain make sense. You don't make one area 'pure sand-desert with rolling dunes' and then the next one 'concrete base'. If you're going to do this, you need a 'border' area where the two meet; think perhaps a cliff-style wall that has a bunch of sand blown up one side, with the concrete only being found on the wall and in the base. On the flipside, if you're seeking to make a derelict/abandoned 'concrete base' next to a sand-desert, the border is going to be vaguer as there should be sand all over the base. In your case: if you keep building temples in the jungle like you've now done, make sure they look overgrown with plants. They realistically would be. Simultaneously, use something like a deep canyon with a bridge to easily separate jungle-heavy zones from more city-like zones.
3) Last but not least, an issue on an even smaller scale. One rookie mistake when it comes to terraining is simply placing a crapload of doodads together and hoping it looks good. Overuse of the foliage function ties into this. The prime example that people do this with is trees. Google 'forest' and take a moment to observe what forests actually look like. Even the most overgrown ones tend to have clumps of 'stuff'. A tree or rock surrounded with moss or smaller shrubs, or bushes located closely together. Rarely, if ever, do these elements stand by themselves. As such, when terraining in the editor, this is where one uses what I've dubbed 'focal points'. This picture from the Blizzard terrain tutorial demonstrates what I mean well enough: the rocks you see are clumped together, there is no single 'lone rock' just 'lying around'. The follow-up picture shows how everything comes together when trees are added, also in focal points. Note how the bushes are fitted in neatly near the right-most rocks.
I've dubbed 'focal points' this way because they are small collections of doodads that subconsciously draw your players' attention. You're seeking to avoid a "blanket spree" of random doodads that make the map confusing and hard to navigate.
The Blizzard terrain tutorial is a pretty good place for some simple examples of what I've said above, and some basic tips. Hope all of this helps!
@Mozared: Go
thanks, a lot of your points make sense for sure. But i'm confused how to make good looking canyon / precipice / break. I want it to feels fitting, not just random.
for p2):
I'm planning to make a lot of open areas, because i want to use unit movement in engagements and a fancy aoe spells, so i'm not planning to turn my map in anthill, where there will be dozens of different rooms and no place to disperse. Planning to make like 5-6 key areas, all will be using the same tileset. Just some more dirt while others bricks.
@abvdzh: Go
To make a good canyon, you follow the above steps. Ask yourself if the canyon makes sense. Use dirt and rocky textures to delineate one 'zone' from the other, and make sure there's plenty of mountainous and hilly zones nearby to make the canyon feel like it's not out of place. Perhaps even lower or raise all the cliffs near it. Possibly you can even show what caused the canyon to come into existence based on the lore behind your map: a huge crashed battlecruiser somewhere at the end of it?
Open areas are a challenge in themselves, but feel free to keep checking back here and we'll be able to give you more in-depth comments :)