Well, look at a video of a Top Down shooter and then tell me how are you supposed to shoot without a mouse?
Firing only in the direction you're facing? Bah.
Top down shoulders should have up,down, left , right and shoot buttons that shoot in the direction your facing. Thats what a top down shooter is.
Like Smash TV for NES.
Your first link shows the Guy shooting in different directions then moving you could make a unit with a turret like imortal and use wasd for movement but you could control attacking with mouse. Attackign would spin the Turret.
Second video kinda the same but it looks like hes moving backwards and shooting forwards.
Both those games look like they are based on WASD systems. So yeah might really not be possible.
Progammers way suffers from lag from all the units. Top down shooters need it so that the unit always faces the mouse cursor and so that you can have a hold in shooting and movement system instead of a spam-clicking system.
I just want to say it has been updated to reduce lag, it will populate only enough for your screen, no more, and with a half decent computer that would be no problem. You can intergate such unit fuction into the library, or just use a fuction to retrieve mouse position at any moment. FuzzyD and I are trying to come up with a better method with GPS but it wasnt really promising (compared to the current system)
I have no doubts WASD through the data editor works well. But I see nothing wrong with exploring other methods to see if we can push the limits of the editor a little. Look on the net for bloons supermonkey. It's a top down shooter that doesn't require continuous mouse clicking. If anyone were to ask what is to be achieved through this, my answer would be - Unit movement that follows your mouse, in a similar fashion to
Maybe i'm a little crazy, but theres something I would really like to try. To build a remake of a game called with Galaxy. WASD via data editor would require UI which essentially covers 1/4 of the screen. Keystroke/Mouseclick detection has delay. For a shootemup that requires bullet quick reflexes, keystroke/mouseclicks aren't gona work. So i'm tryin really hard here to find a better way.
The GPS thing.. So close, yet so far. Thank god it's the weekend, I'll finally get to do some work with the editor after the stressful week. Will let you know if I discover some kinda workaround progammer
I have no doubts WASD through the data editor works well. But I see nothing wrong with exploring other methods to see if we can push the limits of the editor a little. Look on the net for bloons supermonkey. It's a top down shooter that doesn't require continuous mouse clicking. If anyone were to ask what is to be achieved through this, my answer would be - Unit movement that follows your mouse, in a similar fashion to raptor
Maybe i'm a little crazy, but theres something I would really like to try. To build a remake of a game called Ikaruga with Galaxy. WASD via data editor would require UI which essentially covers 1/4 of the screen. Keystroke/Mouseclick detection has delay. For a shootemup that requires bullet quick reflexes, keystroke/mouseclicks aren't gona work. So i'm tryin really hard here to find a better way.
The GPS thing.. So close, yet so far. Thank god it's the weekend, I'll finally get to do some work with the editor after the stressful week. Will let you know if I discover some kinda workaround progammer
Custom games will always involved lag. there is nothing that can be done about it. It has to do with how the game is implemented over the internet.
Bullet time reflex's are not possible. Do not make games that players need to be able to react to anything faster then 1second.
Mouse detection isnt possible either the reasion being is that the "SERVER" does not track the players mouse position. It only tracks USER EVENTS
such as, a unit has the mouse over it, A button was clicked, a unit was clicked.
Now this would be a different matter if Blizzard decided they wanted the player to send his MOUSE X,Y coords to thier servers every .0001 seconds. But IMO that would make bnet lagg even more. And its completely useless for the actuall SC2 game itself
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It might be possible to force a user to que up a custom abilty so that the play can just target the point on a map with the ability and use that for tracking. Though this requires clicking.
Dont know if its even possible to force a user to have an abiltiy que'd so that he has an abiltiy ready to target something.
Im not sure about the unit hover coords but is it possible to determine where the mouse is actually when hovering over a unit compared to the units actuall central position.
For example
1 giant unit that covers whole map. could you determine where the cursor is actually hovering over that unit ?
Custom games will always involved lag. there is nothing that can be done about it. It has to do with how the game is implemented over the internet.
Bullet time reflex's are not possible. Do not make games that players need to be able to react to anything faster then 1second.
Mouse detection isnt possible either the reasion being is that the "SERVER" does not track the players mouse position. It only tracks USER EVENTS such as, a unit has the mouse over it, A button was clicked, a unit was clicked.
Now this would be a different matter if Blizzard decided they wanted the player to send his MOUSE X,Y coords to thier servers every .0001 seconds. But IMO that would make bnet lagg even more. And its completely useless for the actuall SC2 game itself
Yeah, now that you say, it really makes sense. So there will probably not even be a lag free work around of any kind in the future :( But you could do something like the Supermonkey with moving to where you clicked. Not as cool though :(
1 giant unit that covers whole map. could you determine where the cursor is actually hovering over that unit ?
As far as I know you can only detect whether the mouse is hovering over a unit, not where exactly.
Also, only units that are visible will trigger the hover event, so you'd have to make a giant visible unit.
Thus, even if it worked it'd be the most ugly control of all times lol.
Also, there is an Edit button. If you post so shortly in succession then please edit your previous posts. Makes it a little cleaner.
You can make an invisible model, but the unit must be clickable, otherwise the hover event won't fire.
So:
1) You'd always get the selection-type mouse cursor (can be changed but currently it's bugged I think).
2) You'd always select the dummy unit when you left click anywhere (deselection event is laggy in multiplayer).
3) You couldn't right-click anywhere because it'd always register as a follow order on the dummy unit.
4) Who knows how well Sc2 handles a single unit of the size of the entire map.
5) It wouldn't help the fact that there is no way of getting the exact position you hover on (afaik).
You can make an invisible model, but the unit must be clickable, otherwise the hover event won't fire.
So:
1) You'd always get the selection-type mouse cursor (can be changed but currently it's bugged I think).
2) You'd always select the dummy unit when you left click anywhere (deselection event is laggy in multiplayer).
3) You couldn't right-click anywhere because it'd always register as a follow order on the dummy unit.
4) Who knows how well Sc2 handles a single unit of the size of the entire map.
5) It wouldn't help the fact that there is no way of getting the exact position you hover on (afaik).
Really ?
4 simple flags; No cursor on, unselectable on, untargetable on, unhightlightable off
for 4. it work nicely, scale goes up to 100x without problem as far as i'm doing the GPS based on that
You can make an invisible model, but the unit must be clickable, otherwise the hover event won't fire.
So:
1) You'd always get the selection-type mouse cursor (can be changed but currently it's bugged I think).
2) You'd always select the dummy unit when you left click anywhere (deselection event is laggy in multiplayer).
3) You couldn't right-click anywhere because it'd always register as a follow order on the dummy unit.
4) Who knows how well Sc2 handles a single unit of the size of the entire map.
5) It wouldn't help the fact that there is no way of getting the exact position you hover on (afaik).
<<strikeout>>
I did some testing a few weeks back. Just set the model _opacity to 0_ to make the unit 'invisible'. Set the unit to _uncursorable_ to get rid of the standard hover cursor. Make it _unselectable_ to remove the selection circle and prevent the unit from being selected by left click, from what i recall, no need to make it unclickable, also i'm not too sure about the hover event not firing if the unit is not clickable, have to try it out myself.
<</strikeout>>
Edit: Whoops, progammer already pointed this out.
The unit needs to be constantly shown and hidden to allow refreshing. It's going to take more than just one large unit to pinpoint location. It takes me 70 dummy units at scales spread by gaps of 100 scale to cover my widescreen. Knowing the points at which these dummy units are centered upon, Its possible to get the distance from the point based off the scale of the unit (need to store units into array depending on their scale). With 2 sets of 70 dummy units positioned at fixed points calculated off the location the player camera(s) are looking, its very possible to use trigonometry to calculate position.
From what I currently have brainstormed, a GPS system would need to be able to cycle between all the players in game within a second, and calculate their position. Still exploring to try and find the best way to do this.
Hover detection is not the main issue with the system now. Its getting it to work in multiplayer, getting it to work fast enough, and getting it to catch distances accurately enough. And the code strictly cannot have waits, or it makes it too slow.
Edit: Oh, and almost forgot, All this happens without you having to click your mouse. :)
Rather than a grid, we're trying to use circles that are stacked upon one another with different radii, so they all originate from a shared point. Height difference is set to 0.01 (minimum?) This however presents a problem of overlapping thus the requirement for showing and hiding. To ensure objects that are covered have a chance to be highlighted. Try to imagine it as two lights flashing in an alternating manner. When one is on the other is off.
@progammer
Btw, Just curious, with the grid system, are the grid locations fixed about the players camera? or does it shift rows and columns around at fixed X and Y values. For example, the first drone is at (1,1), if the player moves 0.5 units downward, will his change to (1.5,1.5) or (2,2)?
I see what your trying to do and your basically just making it more complicated you could just make all the units in the grid have a radius of .1 and set their distance you spawn them in a grid of .2 by .2
The smaller the units the more exact the cords but the more lag induced from a lot more events firing when people are moving their cursor around the map and Way more units.
Top down shoulders should have up,down, left , right and shoot buttons that shoot in the direction your facing. Thats what a top down shooter is. Like Smash TV for NES.
Your first link shows the Guy shooting in different directions then moving you could make a unit with a turret like imortal and use wasd for movement but you could control attacking with mouse. Attackign would spin the Turret.
Second video kinda the same but it looks like hes moving backwards and shooting forwards.
Both those games look like they are based on WASD systems. So yeah might really not be possible.
I just want to say it has been updated to reduce lag, it will populate only enough for your screen, no more, and with a half decent computer that would be no problem. You can intergate such unit fuction into the library, or just use a fuction to retrieve mouse position at any moment. FuzzyD and I are trying to come up with a better method with GPS but it wasnt really promising (compared to the current system)
@progammer: Go
Alright.
Why discuss about what he wants to use this for? Question is: can it be done. Doesn't matter if anyone thinks this "should be useful" or not o.O
I have no doubts WASD through the data editor works well. But I see nothing wrong with exploring other methods to see if we can push the limits of the editor a little. Look on the net for bloons supermonkey. It's a top down shooter that doesn't require continuous mouse clicking. If anyone were to ask what is to be achieved through this, my answer would be - Unit movement that follows your mouse, in a similar fashion to
Maybe i'm a little crazy, but theres something I would really like to try. To build a remake of a game called with Galaxy. WASD via data editor would require UI which essentially covers 1/4 of the screen. Keystroke/Mouseclick detection has delay. For a shootemup that requires bullet quick reflexes, keystroke/mouseclicks aren't gona work. So i'm tryin really hard here to find a better way.
The GPS thing.. So close, yet so far. Thank god it's the weekend, I'll finally get to do some work with the editor after the stressful week. Will let you know if I discover some kinda workaround progammer
The answer is .... NO it can not be done.
So it really comes down to "what the person is really aiming for"
to come up with a functional work-around
Custom games will always involved lag. there is nothing that can be done about it. It has to do with how the game is implemented over the internet.
Bullet time reflex's are not possible. Do not make games that players need to be able to react to anything faster then 1second.
Mouse detection isnt possible either the reasion being is that the "SERVER" does not track the players mouse position. It only tracks USER EVENTS such as, a unit has the mouse over it, A button was clicked, a unit was clicked.
Now this would be a different matter if Blizzard decided they wanted the player to send his MOUSE X,Y coords to thier servers every .0001 seconds. But IMO that would make bnet lagg even more. And its completely useless for the actuall SC2 game itself
It might be possible to force a user to que up a custom abilty so that the play can just target the point on a map with the ability and use that for tracking. Though this requires clicking.
Dont know if its even possible to force a user to have an abiltiy que'd so that he has an abiltiy ready to target something.
Im not sure about the unit hover coords but is it possible to determine where the mouse is actually when hovering over a unit compared to the units actuall central position.
For example
Yeah, now that you say, it really makes sense. So there will probably not even be a lag free work around of any kind in the future :( But you could do something like the Supermonkey with moving to where you clicked. Not as cool though :(
As far as I know you can only detect whether the mouse is hovering over a unit, not where exactly.
Also, only units that are visible will trigger the hover event, so you'd have to make a giant visible unit.
Thus, even if it worked it'd be the most ugly control of all times lol.
Also, there is an Edit button. If you post so shortly in succession then please edit your previous posts. Makes it a little cleaner.
Well units only respond to the hover event if you have it turned on.
You could also make it so the unit has a clear model so it would be visible but not?
@SouLCarveRR: Go
You can make an invisible model, but the unit must be clickable, otherwise the hover event won't fire.
So:
1) You'd always get the selection-type mouse cursor (can be changed but currently it's bugged I think).
2) You'd always select the dummy unit when you left click anywhere (deselection event is laggy in multiplayer).
3) You couldn't right-click anywhere because it'd always register as a follow order on the dummy unit.
4) Who knows how well Sc2 handles a single unit of the size of the entire map.
5) It wouldn't help the fact that there is no way of getting the exact position you hover on (afaik).
@s3rius: Go
=(
I was just trying to help brain storm. Im more of a standard blizz unit UI kinda guy anyways.
@SouLCarveRR: Go
Nvm, I just love crushing other peoples hopes muhahahar! Gives me a certain kick :3
Really ?
4 simple flags; No cursor on, unselectable on, untargetable on, unhightlightable off
for 4. it work nicely, scale goes up to 100x without problem as far as i'm doing the GPS based on that
s3rius i'm kind of dissapointed
Edit: Whoops, progammer already pointed this out.
The unit needs to be constantly shown and hidden to allow refreshing. It's going to take more than just one large unit to pinpoint location. It takes me 70 dummy units at scales spread by gaps of 100 scale to cover my widescreen. Knowing the points at which these dummy units are centered upon, Its possible to get the distance from the point based off the scale of the unit (need to store units into array depending on their scale). With 2 sets of 70 dummy units positioned at fixed points calculated off the location the player camera(s) are looking, its very possible to use trigonometry to calculate position.
From what I currently have brainstormed, a GPS system would need to be able to cycle between all the players in game within a second, and calculate their position. Still exploring to try and find the best way to do this.
Hover detection is not the main issue with the system now. Its getting it to work in multiplayer, getting it to work fast enough, and getting it to catch distances accurately enough. And the code strictly cannot have waits, or it makes it too slow.
Edit: Oh, and almost forgot, All this happens without you having to click your mouse. :)
@progammer: Go
And there I honestly thought the unit needs to be selectable to trigger the highlight event. Guess I'm wrong.
BUT YOU CAN'T PROVE #5 WRONG, CAN YOU? MUHAHAHR!
So several units need to be used ^.^
@s3rius: Go
You almost have to make a complete dummy unit that has none of its events or models or anything on it except for the "HighLight" event on.
Then you make the unit 1.5 radius and place them on the map in a 3v3 grid and cover the entire map. This is how progammer does it I believe.
If you make the units the bare minimum you might just be able to not lag the game out this way.
Then you put together an array
Then make an event.
@SouLCarveRR: Go
Rather than a grid, we're trying to use circles that are stacked upon one another with different radii, so they all originate from a shared point. Height difference is set to 0.01 (minimum?) This however presents a problem of overlapping thus the requirement for showing and hiding. To ensure objects that are covered have a chance to be highlighted. Try to imagine it as two lights flashing in an alternating manner. When one is on the other is off.
@progammer Btw, Just curious, with the grid system, are the grid locations fixed about the players camera? or does it shift rows and columns around at fixed X and Y values. For example, the first drone is at (1,1), if the player moves 0.5 units downward, will his change to (1.5,1.5) or (2,2)?
@FuzzYD: Go
I see what your trying to do and your basically just making it more complicated you could just make all the units in the grid have a radius of .1 and set their distance you spawn them in a grid of .2 by .2
The smaller the units the more exact the cords but the more lag induced from a lot more events firing when people are moving their cursor around the map and Way more units.
The grid system would cover the entire map.