Hello I'm trying to make 3 levels of RailGun Snipe. I've read many tutorials regarding multi-ability learning. The Railgun Snipe Ability has the following pattern
Ability -> Create Persistent - >Search Area -> Damage Set -> Damage & Apply Behaviour
Everything after ability are effects.
So in order to do 3 levels of railgun snipe I have to make 3 CP effects 3 SA effects 3 DS effects, 3 Dmg effects and 3 apply behaviour? Please tell me there is a shorter way of doing this.
Depending on what it is you want to change, maybe this could be done by creating an Upgrade? That, for example, adds damage to the damage effect of the ability.
Rather than making 3 different ability levels, you create 1 ability and then an upgrade with 2 levels. The upgrade's effects increase whatever aspect of your ability that you want, typically damage I imagine. You apply the upgrade using triggers, though there are sneaky ways to do this using only data.
Rather than making 3 different ability levels, you create 1 ability and then an upgrade with 2 levels. The upgrade's effects increase whatever aspect of your ability that you want, typically damage I imagine. You apply the upgrade using triggers, though there are sneaky ways to do this using only data.
The upgrade method is just brilliant. I tried it out, after you suggested it in the other thread and it works like a charm. Saves tons of data objects and is much more flexible than stuff like reacting on damage effects via trigger and adjust damage according to level or something.
And on top of it, it works very well with the <d ref> tooltip references, you only need one tooltip for the whole ability, the values shown will update automatically when the upgrade kicks in. Its so damn awesome :).
(THATS how a leveling ability system should work on its own, blizzard!)
Only drawback would be, that it is not MUI, if one player can use multiple heroes of the same type, this method will fail (should not affect many maps, however)
The ability buttons them selfs should really have some kinda innate link to specific upgrades they should use. The only problem is for some spells you may want to reduce the cool down of a spell when it levels. Dunno how you would do that with an upgrade.
What I have been doing is.
Create Train Hero Skill
Create Sub abilities on train hero skill ( these are used kinda as dummy buttons)
when an ability is lvled up from this sub skill I do a "set catalog field value" and I change all the data fields I want with triggers to level the skill appropriately.
Not as clean as using upgrades. But it offers more flexability if you cant do what you want with an upgrade.
I don't really understand this. I suppose it has to do with the following:
Basically all I want is a hero ability level system like the on WAR3. If I use the upgrade system I have the following problem. I would think using upgrades I would have to manage to put the upgrade button on the "2" command card of the hero but this is a problem as it would require the hero to already have the ability as the upgrade itself does not give access to it (correct me if im wrong). It wouldn't work like a herolearn system. Any ideas?
Maybe you should try flipping through tutorials. Just search hero leveling and you should find it. I remember that ONETWOSC made one. That's the one I watched. You could ask him. :D
I don't really understand this. I suppose it has to do with the following:
Basically all I want is a hero ability level system like the on WAR3. If I use the upgrade system I have the following problem. I would think using upgrades I would have to manage to put the upgrade button on the "2" command card of the hero but this is a problem as it would require the hero to already have the ability as the upgrade itself does not give access to it (correct me if im wrong). It wouldn't work like a herolearn system. Any ideas?
Basically, you use the same method you described in the first post. You make your snipe ability with 3 levels and you make a learn ability with your snipe ability in it. You put the ability and the learn ability in the respective command cards. However, you create only one set of effects, which is used for every level (if there is only one entry, it will use this even for higher levels). You get more levels, if you for example add multiple entries to Cost+
Then you create the upgrade, which improves the desired aspects of your spell. Make the upgrades use maximum level 2 and add damage or whatever to your effects.
Then you create a trigger, which reacts, when you level up the ability (aka when you use the levelup ability for your snipe). This trigger sets the level of the upgrade to the level of the ability (ability levels are 0/1/2, upgrade levels are 1/2, so the 1st level of your ability will not level up the upgrade to the first level. When you learn lvl 2 ability, upgrade will be set to lvl 1, improving the ability the first time).
So the upgrade never appears in any of your command cards, it is purely handled by triggers.
Nah if i was gonna do it with the "set catalog field value" I wouldnt use any upgrades.
I would have a trigger specifically for upgradeing certain aspects of the ability
you can create a "train hero" abiltiy" .... there are tutorials how to do this.
basically when learning the spell a second time for level 2 the trigger would detect this and then make what ever changes to the "abilities and effects" as needed.
every way you do leveled up spells has problems.
In regards to using upgrades I would think it would get tricky if say
Level 2 of your spell just reduces the cool down
and level 3 of your spell reduces the energy cost
this would require multiple upgrades in my understanding ... it would require multiple buttons
leveling an ability like this would be easier to do with trigger since you wouldnt need to make multiple upgrades and buttons for those upgrades
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:D in general you would be right, but for your example, you would need neither upgrades nor triggers, not even any new data object, just set up 3 entries for Cost+
Yeah, catalog value should work similar to the stuff I posted, just change the values directly in the trigger instead of setting a level for an upgrade to do this. Its a matter of taste, I guess.
An upgrade appears to be a little "cleaner" and there is no need for much trigger interaction; but it has its limits (for example behaviors can basically not be changed using upgrades, all you can change is the duration).
Catalog Value is a little more messy, the trigger becomes longer, you have to look up the exact field names of several values etc, but it has almost no limits (at least such I know of).
€ after trying out Catalog Value, I have to say that this definitely a little more flexible. If you want to just use a pattern to increase damage per level by a fixed amount or something, its not more complicated than an upgrade, you just use a formula to determine the current damage or something (at least when using galaxy script this is no big deal, in Gui this could become quite annoying, though). But you can easily switch to more complicated settings, which is not easily possible using an upgrade.
:D in general you would be right, but for your example, you would need neither upgrades nor triggers, not even any new data object, just set up 3 entries for Cost+
Yeah, catalog value should work similar to the stuff I posted, just change the values directly in the trigger instead of setting a level for an upgrade to do this. Its a matter of taste, I guess.
An upgrade appears to be a little "cleaner" and there is no need for much trigger interaction; but it has its limits (for example behaviors can basically not be changed using upgrades, all you can change is the duration).
Catalog Value is a little more messy, the trigger becomes longer, you have to look up the exact field names of several values etc, but it has almost no limits (at least such I know of).
€ after trying out Catalog Value, I have to say that this definitely a little more flexible. If you want to just use a pattern to increase damage per level by a fixed amount or something, its not more complicated than an upgrade, you just use a formula to determine the current damage or something (at least when using galaxy script this is no big deal, in Gui this could become quite annoying, though). But you can easily switch to more complicated settings, which is not easily possible using an upgrade.
So let me get this straight. One way you can do it is purely with triggers, modifying the catalog values directly right. Still, how would I call the the trigger though, on which event?
The other way would involve having the ability with x levels by adding values on +cost (even if they dont change anything) and adding the upgrade via a trigger. Again I have no idea how to call the trigger.
Either way im gonna be doing like 20 more spells so what would you suggest? Use a combination of both? With regards to triggers I use a mixture of both GUI and Galaxy but I rather stick with GUI as much as I can as I really don't want to bother with eventual syntax errors
Only drawback would be, that it is not MUI, if one player can use multiple heroes of the same type, this method will fail (should not affect many maps, however)
Add this as a requirement to use the ability. Also make sure your upgrade isn't leveled.
Using Kueken's help, I found a solution to not make x20 buttons.
As he has said, on the ability you can find Command Card - Level Button - Tooltip
1) Double-click on "Ability - Commands", scroll down, and set the default button to your button, press OK.
2) Double-click on "Command Card - Level Button - Tooltip" to open up a new window. *Now, how it works: It modifies the existing button's tooltip to the new one, BUT it starts doing this starting from level 2.
3) Assuming you already have 1 button for level 1, add a new element, give it a text key (e.g. SmthLvl2) and insert the text beneath.
So, the first element is for Level 2, the second is for Level 3 and etc. Add the needed amount of elements and you're done.
Happy to help :)
P.s. Thinking about it now, I think that I posted it in the wrong thread :D
The event would be someone using the learning ability for the specific ability (assuming you have one set up for it as described in the hero spell tutorial)
€ yes, something like that.
if you use upgrades or catalog value set and <d ref> in your tooltip, you do not need multiple tooltips at all.
Btw I said earlier that it is impossible to change most values of behaviors using upgrades. The same seems to be true when using Catalog Set Value (or am I doing something wrong?)
If we cannot change buff values, there is no way to avoid multiple behaviors (or add multiple stacks of 1 behavior), correct?
If you dont know who events to use to determine when to adjust the data stuffs you prolly should stay away from triggers.
I'm asking a question regarding a specific event since I really haven't bothered with looking into data related events. By your logic, you should probably stay away from English.
@Keuken531
So it would be something like
Event: Unit - Any Unit uses Penetrator Round (Raynor)(Learn) at Generic6 - Complete stage (Ignore shared abilities)
Action: Tech Tree - Add 1 to "The upgrade that ups the dmg" upgrade for player (Triggering player)
Rather than making 3 different ability levels, you create 1 ability and then an upgrade with 2 levels. The upgrade's effects increase whatever aspect of your ability that you want, typically damage I imagine. You apply the upgrade using triggers, though there are sneaky ways to do this using only data.
Also how would it be done with only data?
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Hello I'm trying to make 3 levels of RailGun Snipe. I've read many tutorials regarding multi-ability learning. The Railgun Snipe Ability has the following pattern
Ability -> Create Persistent - >Search Area -> Damage Set -> Damage & Apply Behaviour
Everything after ability are effects.
So in order to do 3 levels of railgun snipe I have to make 3 CP effects 3 SA effects 3 DS effects, 3 Dmg effects and 3 apply behaviour? Please tell me there is a shorter way of doing this.
Depending on what it is you want to change, maybe this could be done by creating an Upgrade? That, for example, adds damage to the damage effect of the ability.
Upgrades.
As I said in another thread, the default Blizzard hero system is horrible.
@Eiviyn: Go
Care to elaborate a little more?
Rather than making 3 different ability levels, you create 1 ability and then an upgrade with 2 levels. The upgrade's effects increase whatever aspect of your ability that you want, typically damage I imagine. You apply the upgrade using triggers, though there are sneaky ways to do this using only data.
The upgrade method is just brilliant. I tried it out, after you suggested it in the other thread and it works like a charm. Saves tons of data objects and is much more flexible than stuff like reacting on damage effects via trigger and adjust damage according to level or something.
And on top of it, it works very well with the <d ref> tooltip references, you only need one tooltip for the whole ability, the values shown will update automatically when the upgrade kicks in. Its so damn awesome :).
(THATS how a leveling ability system should work on its own, blizzard!)
Only drawback would be, that it is not MUI, if one player can use multiple heroes of the same type, this method will fail (should not affect many maps, however)
The ability buttons them selfs should really have some kinda innate link to specific upgrades they should use. The only problem is for some spells you may want to reduce the cool down of a spell when it levels. Dunno how you would do that with an upgrade.
What I have been doing is.
Not as clean as using upgrades. But it offers more flexability if you cant do what you want with an upgrade.
For cooldown, just add multiple Cost+ values to the spell itself? Very easy :p
Ye, catalog value should work, as well. I am still not used to be able to change basically every data via trigger :p
@SouLCarveRR: Go
I don't really understand this. I suppose it has to do with the following:
Basically all I want is a hero ability level system like the on WAR3. If I use the upgrade system I have the following problem. I would think using upgrades I would have to manage to put the upgrade button on the "2" command card of the hero but this is a problem as it would require the hero to already have the ability as the upgrade itself does not give access to it (correct me if im wrong). It wouldn't work like a herolearn system. Any ideas?
Maybe you should try flipping through tutorials. Just search hero leveling and you should find it. I remember that ONETWOSC made one. That's the one I watched. You could ask him. :D
Basically, you use the same method you described in the first post. You make your snipe ability with 3 levels and you make a learn ability with your snipe ability in it. You put the ability and the learn ability in the respective command cards. However, you create only one set of effects, which is used for every level (if there is only one entry, it will use this even for higher levels). You get more levels, if you for example add multiple entries to Cost+
Then you create the upgrade, which improves the desired aspects of your spell. Make the upgrades use maximum level 2 and add damage or whatever to your effects.
Then you create a trigger, which reacts, when you level up the ability (aka when you use the levelup ability for your snipe). This trigger sets the level of the upgrade to the level of the ability (ability levels are 0/1/2, upgrade levels are 1/2, so the 1st level of your ability will not level up the upgrade to the first level. When you learn lvl 2 ability, upgrade will be set to lvl 1, improving the ability the first time).
So the upgrade never appears in any of your command cards, it is purely handled by triggers.
@Kueken531: Go
Nah if i was gonna do it with the "set catalog field value" I wouldnt use any upgrades.
I would have a trigger specifically for upgradeing certain aspects of the ability
you can create a "train hero" abiltiy" .... there are tutorials how to do this.
basically when learning the spell a second time for level 2 the trigger would detect this and then make what ever changes to the "abilities and effects" as needed.
every way you do leveled up spells has problems.
In regards to using upgrades I would think it would get tricky if say
this would require multiple upgrades in my understanding ... it would require multiple buttons
leveling an ability like this would be easier to do with trigger since you wouldnt need to make multiple upgrades and buttons for those upgrades
:D in general you would be right, but for your example, you would need neither upgrades nor triggers, not even any new data object, just set up 3 entries for Cost+
Yeah, catalog value should work similar to the stuff I posted, just change the values directly in the trigger instead of setting a level for an upgrade to do this. Its a matter of taste, I guess.
An upgrade appears to be a little "cleaner" and there is no need for much trigger interaction; but it has its limits (for example behaviors can basically not be changed using upgrades, all you can change is the duration).
Catalog Value is a little more messy, the trigger becomes longer, you have to look up the exact field names of several values etc, but it has almost no limits (at least such I know of).
€ after trying out Catalog Value, I have to say that this definitely a little more flexible. If you want to just use a pattern to increase damage per level by a fixed amount or something, its not more complicated than an upgrade, you just use a formula to determine the current damage or something (at least when using galaxy script this is no big deal, in Gui this could become quite annoying, though). But you can easily switch to more complicated settings, which is not easily possible using an upgrade.
So let me get this straight. One way you can do it is purely with triggers, modifying the catalog values directly right. Still, how would I call the the trigger though, on which event?
The other way would involve having the ability with x levels by adding values on +cost (even if they dont change anything) and adding the upgrade via a trigger. Again I have no idea how to call the trigger.
Either way im gonna be doing like 20 more spells so what would you suggest? Use a combination of both? With regards to triggers I use a mixture of both GUI and Galaxy but I rather stick with GUI as much as I can as I really don't want to bother with eventual syntax errors
Add this as a requirement to use the ability. Also make sure your upgrade isn't leveled.
Using Kueken's help, I found a solution to not make x20 buttons.
As he has said, on the ability you can find Command Card - Level Button - Tooltip
1) Double-click on "Ability - Commands", scroll down, and set the default button to your button, press OK.
2) Double-click on "Command Card - Level Button - Tooltip" to open up a new window.
*Now, how it works: It modifies the existing button's tooltip to the new one, BUT it starts doing this starting from level 2.
3) Assuming you already have 1 button for level 1, add a new element, give it a text key (e.g. SmthLvl2) and insert the text beneath.
So, the first element is for Level 2, the second is for Level 3 and etc. Add the needed amount of elements and you're done.
Happy to help :)
P.s. Thinking about it now, I think that I posted it in the wrong thread :D
If you dont know who events to use to determine when to adjust the data stuffs you prolly should stay away from triggers.
@DanOwl: Go
The event would be someone using the learning ability for the specific ability (assuming you have one set up for it as described in the hero spell tutorial)
€ yes, something like that.
@Eiviyn: Go
So you go without using a learn ability at all and use 1 ability purely modified by upgrades? okay ;)
@o3210: Go
if you use upgrades or catalog value set and <d ref> in your tooltip, you do not need multiple tooltips at all.
Btw I said earlier that it is impossible to change most values of behaviors using upgrades. The same seems to be true when using Catalog Set Value (or am I doing something wrong?)
If we cannot change buff values, there is no way to avoid multiple behaviors (or add multiple stacks of 1 behavior), correct?
I'm asking a question regarding a specific event since I really haven't bothered with looking into data related events. By your logic, you should probably stay away from English.
@Keuken531 So it would be something like
Event: Unit - Any Unit uses Penetrator Round (Raynor)(Learn) at Generic6 - Complete stage (Ignore shared abilities) Action: Tech Tree - Add 1 to "The upgrade that ups the dmg" upgrade for player (Triggering player)
Also how would it be done with only data?