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Sorry about asking sort of the same question in a new thread. Next time I'll use the search engine or what not.
Both points of view bring up interesting discussions. However, the dust won't settle for a loooong time.
I'd say Blizz wont implement anything until LotV comes out and that is if it's a hit...
After that, they will implement it for sure.. (at this time it will be in their financial and marketing interest) ..what's still up for grabs is how fair it'll turn out (probably donations for taxes purposes).
Oh and ... "I already payed for the editor? Why should I pay for mapmakers "other/extra" maps... bouhou", am I the only one to find this argument lame and useless..?
Blizz has (against all MARKETPLACE reason) once again sold a game WITH the editor... be thankful...
"About 10000 hours on a map" being worth retribution... how bout this :
if you are genuinely expanding on the game engine / possibilities it's creativity, so maybe you should get money out of it... but you are still using a superduper template are you not? So please get off your high horses, it's sort of ridiculous. The amount of time is not a prevailing argument at all.
Furthermore, if you just use the editor, you should have no right to ask for retribution, the editor has been payed for yes but... you wouldn't think of asking money for access to your facebook page would you?
Just to tidy up: I only care about the retribution issue in as much as it relates to the quality of the maps.. and there is the final nail in the coffin:
this "marketplace" will need people earning money for it to exist: not players, not mapmakers but administrators, and (I hope) we all know what that means...
My question is, why does including a feature (that gives developers incentive to make more and better maps), harm the free-to-play maps?
My analogy would be to the iphone/ipod market. There still exists developers who want to write free apps, and there are some who's livelihood depend on getting paid so that they can continue.
I don't see this as being a negative thing.
Technical Support Engineer and Quality Assurance, Curse
I sure wish i could release a premium map, my life fails so bad and the only way i could probably makes some money is by releasing something amazing.
My maps: Magicsbane,
War of Eden
Blizzard has said, shortly before the game was released, that there will be no marketplace.
The first thing would be the paying conditions. Not everyone has paypal, so it would skip a large group of players if paypal would be the only paying possibility. Then, I think it's really problematic what you do if you use other coders systems. In my oppinion, a "donation" system would work much better, or let them be some "payed content" in a map, because then you would KNOW what you buy before you buy it, and it won't skip a huge group from playing a map.
If it doesn't get implemented that way, I would say that systems should be published under licenses, like creative commons, so noone can use those systems for use in a market place map!
I would never pay for a map ever…period, even if its awsome.
Due to the publishing system's current limitations when it comes to author credits and authentication, the marketplace can look very threatening and unfriendly to mapmakers, with or without pay. Unfortunately, due to the volume of people making maps across Battle.net, poor custom game lobby support, and the nature of copyright/infringement law (across the digital globe no less), I doubt there will be any centralized protection for works in progress.
I'm eager to see what Blizzard comes up with to settle any potential financial fracas. Maybe we're mistaken in assuming any old map could be put up for sale?
This thing destroys the game's spirt. If you are a good mapmaker, you shouldn't make any premium map.
I'll just add my two cents here. There are several things I have taken into account when blizzard mentioned a marketplace. First their idea is actually brilliant for attracting more highly skilled map developers and encouraging them to make maps of ever higher quality. You can look anywhere nowadays and find the success of similar marketplaces. The Ipod/Iphone/Ipad from apple is filled with custom user apps, some are free others cost money and the quality does range accordingly. The same is true with the PS3 and Xbox360 marketplaces.
Secondly and probably the best part about marketplaces is that they give smaller development teams a starting platform for their ideas. There is a generic problem within industries that explode in size like the gaming industry has. That is; the larger developer companies can put out good game after good game, but are prone to not take excessive risks on new ideas that have never been done before. The Issue is that each generation will have good new ideas on what should change in the industry for the better, but will have a tremendously hard time trying to get funding from an existing company. Therefore smaller marketplaces within the industry are natural solution to this issue.
Now many of you have raised the concern that people will lock their maps and their knowledge refusing to share I tend to disagree on two different levels. If you follow the logical conclusion based on real world experiences this concern has no merit. For example God of War was a game which revolutionized and added an whole new visual layer and appeal to the hack and slash genre in essence creating a whole new sub-genre. After God of War's release we have seen countless clones. Now I ask you where did those who made these clones attain the knowledge to make a clone of GoW even though GoW was not an open source project? Now I doubt very seriously that they went to Santa Monica Studio and asked for their exact code, yet they were able to replicate the GoW concept. The answer lies in the fact that as long as basic documentation on any given programing language or engine is available then any skilled developer can duplicate any idea he can understand. I think of SC2mapster as the place to go to find all the basic documentation for the SC2 editor, and people can freely add to the basic documentation without revealing any of their unique gameplay concepts.
This next part may sound harsh, but it's the blunt honest truth. If you are skilled developer then you should have the ability to view an gameplay concept and then with a little time be able to figure out a way to replicate it on your own. If you aren't a skilled developer yet and that sounds wrong to you then I'd question why you are wanting to make a map at all. Do you really have so little desire in improving your actual skill with the editor that you'll whine at the concept of someone not sharing exactly how they made something work? I started making maps with burning desire to become a better programmer and learn just what it takes to develop a project from start to finish. After playing (I use playing lightly I generally spend 8-10 hours a day working on our team's project) around with the editor since beta I've become pretty familiar with it, both data and trigger side, One of the things Ive found is that the more time Ive spent on my project the less I actually need to browse SC2mapster. Now I'm not saying it isn't a great resource. It was very helpful when I first began and from time to time still is. but one of the things I've begun to realize is that I can now conceive an idea of what I want done and then after thinking and playing around for a while I can figure out how to do it on my own (BTW I don't know about you guys but I remember something way way better when I figure it out and do it myself). This is also true of other peoples ideas, I can see what they have done and then figure out a way of my own to accomplish that same thing.
The ultimate reality is that the world operates on one simple and awesome principle, people should be rewarded for their hard work when they produce something of high quality or most of them won't produce anything (the reward may not necessarily be of monetary gain I.E. recognition or gained experience are some other examples).
I don't know why people are so upset over something that has a proven track record of improving the quality of the projects released and attracting a higher quality worker (again I cite The Apple Ipod, PS3, and Xbox360 as examples.) For me just thinking back to Warcraft 3 I know of quite a few maps that I'd be more than happy to pay a couple bucks for (Vampirism Beast, YouTD, and The Black Road ORPG are just a couple examples) because I spent countless hours after work glued to my screen playing them and loving it. So if a marketplace helps bring those developers to SC2, gives them possibly a way to do what they so obviously love to do, only more often and better, then why should I be upset about that.
The other minor thing that stands out with all the comments is that people are afraid of the marketplace because there are so many unknowns right now, "What if someone steals my map and posts it on the marketplace?" "what if there are crappy maps on the marketplace?" "what if a map costs 20$?" I think it would be best if people refrained from this line of questioning because blizzard has released so little information, we honestly know very little right now and speculation isn't very helpful because of what might or might not happen. I think most of us realize that going outside our homes means we might get into a car accident, or might be robbed, but we don't refuse to go outside based on what might happen. I think it's best to just keep watch and see how blizzard does this marketplace, ( I mean it's blizzard for God's sake, I'd say they should have earned our trust just about more than anyone has by now).
Is it really that painful to give up a few dollars or so for a great/really cool map?.
Imagine what quality we can see when this happens. The competition will be high and the players will ultimately benefit.