Empire Builder 2

Purple town

Sequel to Empire Builder 2.

Superior to EB1

Found on EU and NA

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  • Avatar of MusicManiacSK MusicManiacSK Jan 02, 2016 at 00:09 UTC - 0 likes

    Hi guys! Just wanted to tell you that there is group for people who like Empire Builder maps.

    Wanted to ask if you can add it to loading screen or into description...


  • Avatar of Titan_3000 Titan_3000 Dec 14, 2015 at 11:04 UTC - 0 likes

    First your map is awsome!
    Because there are several versions of the game i am not sure if this bug is still there.

    1. You can build a large army that makes you have -30.000 income and attack other players. I think as soon as your income goes into minus your units should desert. Maybe you can give a warning and then 33% of your army desert and fight against you. If your income is still in minus another 33% of them should desert.

    -> If peoples economy cant support a big army they should not be able to have it.

    2. If two players play together one can focus on techpoints and have high negative income then he sends the techpoints to his friend. Solution: If your income is negative you should not get techpoints at all.

    -> If people cant afford science, they should not get the techpoints.


    Last edited Dec 14, 2015 by Titan_3000
  • Avatar of VasVadum VasVadum Dec 12, 2015 at 02:41 UTC - 1 like

    Lastly, I'd like to present an image for you in suggestions towards the UI. I wish I knew how to edit the UI and such as you have, adding elements and new resources and such so I could do it myself but I couldn't figure it out. :P


    I think it would be nice, if the game did certain things per second or half second, such as food income. While certain things remain on the upkeep timer, food upkeep. Of course, even if you end up not doing this, you can still move things around so that it matches the normal game look. Would be nice after all and that little red number at the side would be the countdown for refreshing upkeep and balances. I'd like the area that holds all this to still be refreshed every second or half second, due to the fact that I don't want to wait 10 seconds to know if I have enough oil income to keep my newly built aircraft army up or when I sell/buy stuff, I don't want it to remain invisible until it refreshes.

    Also, hovering on that red countdown thing, would display "Upkeep/Balance timer" or some such like that.
    The Archive UI bit you added could be made a whole line smaller, it doesn't need to be that large after all.
    You can also see I shrank the market window too. Holding a modifier key could change it from sell to buy. Just like those quick buttons I added below the resources.


  • Avatar of VasVadum VasVadum Dec 12, 2015 at 02:02 UTC - 0 likes

    Ideas for additional things or changes to existing:

    Decrease walk/move speed on farms by 30%, remove this debuff on underground hydroponics mentioned below. Maybe even add a 15% speed boost or more.
    Level 5 Farm upgrades into Underground Hydroponics
    Underground Hydroponics upgrade button says "Add new level", allowing for 10 levels.
    Underground Hydroponics I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X
    Each new level doesn't double, it adds to the growth rate. Say you get 100 food per tick on level 1, upgrade gives you 200 and last level gives 1000. It's a compact structure that uses z levels rather than your base area to grow food. Each level should consume 25 electricity, upkeep should be logarithmic.
    25, +25, +25, +24, +24, +23, +22, +21, +21, +20 (230)
    The reason for this upkeep change, is because it is easier to control the environment underground.
    So assuming you have no modifiers from government, a level 10 would have these stats;
    1100 HP base (+50 per level) > 1550 HP
    25 power usage per level > 250 Electricity
    Logarithmic upkeep > 230 Upkeep
    100 food per level > 1000 food

    Wind Turbines:
    1x1 Turbine, 1/5th everything of the 2x2 sized wind turbine.
    You should allow passage through the turbines, all of them. Make their ground post smaller, thinner that is. Don't allow new constructions on their space, just allow walk through as if a burrowed structure.

    Add "Bunker Housing". This housing will be able to hold 25 people, and will have a 75% resistance to starvation and a 50% resistance to emitters. Will cost 25 electricity always, and 1 per person inside. This will have high HP compared to normal housing, and be above ground still. 2x2 in size.
    Add "Underground Housing Complex". This will be able to support 100 population, and will be underground like the underground hydroponics, giving same speed boost as it for walking over it, if you should add this to the hydros. It will have a normal starvation rate, but a 10% resistance to emitters. It will cost 100 electricity constantly +1 per person living there.
    Make the Capital act as bunker housing with a 90% resistance to starvation and an 85% resistance to emitters while being able to house 100 population.

    Cap some research types. Also, make their upgrades exponential, not just double it each time. Their upgrades should be logarithmic while the cost should be exponential.
    E.G. If you upgrade food, it gives you 100% boost the first time, costing 100 science. The second time it costs 230 science, but only gives you an additional 90%. I leave it to you to play with these numbers, unless you want me to try and come up with some stuff.

    I'd say cap food research at 20 levels, or whenever your logarithmic calculation yields useless results. Same for the others, I suppose.

  • Avatar of VasVadum VasVadum Dec 11, 2015 at 22:19 UTC - 0 likes

    I discovered that it is possible to beat this map on easy, only if you share a base with someone and one person focuses on military and the other defense and one of you sends the other all research points to get anti air up before air waves start.

    I've also discovered two things that need fixing:
    Enemies should not be able to attack through cliffs.
    Enemies should not be able to attack things on top of cliffs.

    Funny enough, these two things never happened to me when I played solo.

    I must say. I like that the map changed, but I hate the map. There is only one base with only one door on it and that's the same base as before and I liked the previous doorway better because it had two high cliffs over looking the entrance making a ground entry impossible if well defended.

    Also, you still haven't added nobuilding terrain blockers in the water areas. So the enemy can still spawn bases in the water now. I've come across an area where the protoss buildings were under water in that previous screenshot I linked where you forgot a water tile, I could see the buildings there under the water.

    I'm going to go ahead and try this again, solo since I have no other choice really. I wish you to join me at some point, however, I would like to see if I can come up with a better map layout at some point too, if I can ever update the damn map editor.

    Last edited Dec 11, 2015 by VasVadum
  • Avatar of VasVadum VasVadum Dec 07, 2015 at 22:34 UTC - 0 likes

    Ok, I just can't do it anymore. If people are bitching about how this map is too easy, demand they share their replay files with you so you can verify they aren't cheating. This is ridiculously impossible now after all your recent updates. I just can't play anymore, I give up, I'm done, I'm finished possibly forever. I may just go back to Kenji's version. Air units before I can even get Anti-air, anti air defenses totally useless by the time I unlock them with the range of a peanut thrower, emitters or necromancers spawning early game making it impossible. Fuck it. And I play solo on Easy.

    Fucking lost this last time because early game emitter half way across the god damn map and bankruptcy. Yea, as if my military's gonna stand there and let themselves be murdered to death all over the place bits and pieces of them splattered everywhere, because I don't pay them anything. Total logic. Lets stick you out in a life or death situation, and tell you either shoot the hostiles or die and see if you demand a paycheck!

    Add me on steam, Anteep, if you wish to talk. I'm rather frustrated at the difficulty of the game.

    Anyone who claims they can solo it on easy on the hardest difficulty, share your replay file. Replay files are not valid forms of proof if they were made prior to December 2015.

    Also, as a side note Anteep, your support AI (The colonies) are bugged a bit, they always go after the middle base first it seems and that's the main protoss fortress, therefor they are no help whatsoever anymore because they don't kill any of the weak spawned areas and instead just go suicide up against the main batteries.

  • Avatar of VasVadum VasVadum Dec 06, 2015 at 00:38 UTC - 0 likes

    You should add a green tooltip thing to anything that attacks to signify what it can attack "Air" "Ground" "Air & Ground", I lost to air units early game because I couldn't get fortifications researched and the first turret you have access to is still useless by all standards. :P

    You forgot a block of water. :P http://steamcommunity.com/id/VasVadum/screenshot/398930103906841076

    I will edit this as I keep retrying. :P

    Last edited Dec 06, 2015 by VasVadum
  • Avatar of VasVadum VasVadum Dec 05, 2015 at 12:27 UTC - 0 likes

    I like some of the things said below, I haven't played since you updated in November though. I do have some quick thoughts as I sit here in the lobby though.

    Add new game modes that alter the game prior to you getting in. Mode: Cooperative | Players all start out allied with each other and on one team. Mode: Competitive | Players all start out neutral with each other, and a scoreboard is set up to reflect the amount of kills total that player has or rather score. Each thing gives a certain score when killed so killing a probe gets you 1 score while killing a gateway gets you 30 score, such and such. Mode: PVP | All players start out neutral, no score board is present Mode: Team Game | All players start out allied with their team members but neutral with the other teams. This allows you to select more than 4 teams, setting the AI on their own 3 teams while you split up the 10 player game into either 2 teams of 5, 5 teams of 2, (3 teams of 3 if 9 players present or 10th becomes observer).

    You can also add a difficulty setting prior to the game start, in the menu for each player. So each player can vote on a difficulty before the game starts. If left "Unchosen" the player votes in game, but if chosen, the game auto votes for you once the menu comes up. If all players choose, then it can skip this task.

    You might even give the player the ability to choose a government, religion, and military style right here in the menu so they can just build their capital right off the bat rather than the chooser buildings.

    Have you ever played StarParty? You notice their UI and such? I love how smooth it transitions and such. Amazing stuff. You could use a UI much like theirs for government choosing and such prior to a game starting up, have everything chosen before everyone spawns and give some time frame there where people can click "vote for more time" in case someone is still choosing. Then, once everyone has chosen and the screen exits, then you execute the game timers for the protoss to start doing their thing on timer schedules. You can also place a "game time" UI element to show the time since the players spawned since the game time counter at the bottom, would be inaccurate for timed events. :P Just some other thoughts. I don't know how the dev of StarParty made it so epicly awesome though, I love his UI. :P

  • Avatar of iceman12121212 iceman12121212 Oct 30, 2015 at 22:49 UTC - 1 like

    This is my favorite map in the entire arcade, hands down. I know the same is true for other "regulars" who I play with frequently. Thank you for this phenomenal contribution to the SC2 community.

    I'm including below a couple suggestions. Am happy to discuss, if helpful - please let me know.

    A. Discrepancies:

    The following "measurements" were taken in a game with no AI and with the Oligarchy (i.e., no buffs or debuffs) and the first Econ choice (i.e., (5%) upkeep on military but no other economic buffs or debuffs):

    • A wind turbine is listed as requiring 25 credits upkeep but it ends up reducing tax balance by 50 credits
    • A metal mine (level I) is listed as requiring 25 credits upkeep but it ends up reducing tax balance by 20 credits (the same is true of levels II, III, IV and V which reduce tax balance by a total of 40, 60, 80 and 100 credits respectively)

    B. Gameplay:

    1. Quantifying impact of Clinic as well as the Genetic Screening and Cloning research options in the University

    It would be helpful if possible to quantify the increase in energy regeneration rate (which is what I assume is impacted by this research.)

    2. Showing level of upgrades on Protoss units

    At the moment, Protoss units will always show 0/0/0 in their shield/armor/attack upgrade stats. It would be helpful if possible to have these stats correspond to the number of archives that were not destroyed before the timer expired. For example, if 1/1/1 (i.e., one archive not destroyed on time) were to correspond to a certain shield armor / armor / weapon value, it would help players quickly determine what upgrades to get on army units / defensive structures.

    3. Giving option to disband/demolish or relinquish Mines/Boreholes and Oil Wells

    The idea here is that if we are stuck in a negative tax balance or negative power (due to Boreholes) situation, it makes sense that relinquishing control of a Mine/Borehole or Oil Well as one option to instantly ease the situation.

    4. Having the benefit of the Tech Income Upgrade (at university) scale exponentially (rather than linearly), to match the fact that upgrade costs scale exponentially

    So for example, let's say that we have a University (+5 Tech Income), a School (+5 TI) and three Laboratory Vs (+75 TI), for a total of +85 TI. In the current version of the map, the first time we research the tech income +25% upgrade would result in our tech income increasing to 106 TI (i.e., 85 + 85 * 0.25). The second time we research the tech income upgrade would result in tech income jumping to 128 TI (i.e., 85 + 85 * 0.25 * 2).

    My proposal is to structure the mechanic such that the second tech income research upgrade would have a cumulative impact on tech income. In other words, the second time we research the upgrade (in the example above) would result in a tech income of 133 (i.e., 85 * 1.25 ^ 2).

    Although the difference between the two approaches is minimal after two rounds of upgrades, the cumulative approach results in meaningfully higher tech income after 10 or so upgrades. Using the above example: after 10 tech income upgrades, the current version of the mechanic would result in tech income of 298 whereas the proposed cumulative mechanic would result in tech income of 792.

    It remains to be seen whether this approach would maintain balance but I thought I'd offer a suggestion as to how it might be possible to fix the fundamental issue: upgrade costs scale exponentially but upgrade benefits scale linearly.

    5. Clarifying that each unit of population yields 3 credits per tick

    I deduced this using some quick calculations but it would be helpful for players to understand this right away for purposes of managing economy.

    6. Quantifying the impact of economic depressions and booms

    I'm not sure how this is implemented in the game. I suspect that a depression (or boom) is simulated by reducing (or increasing) the credit per population multiplier (i.e., which is at a default of 3 during non-depression/non-boom periods). I do think it's important that the quantification of the depression/boom is communicated to the players.

    7. Impacting the per-tick income of export-based empires during economic depressions and booms

    Conceptually, it does not make sense that export-based empires are relatively immune to economic depressions/booms as compared to their tax-based counterparts.

    One fix would be to change food/metal/oil prices: an increase in price during booms and a decrease in price during depressions (e.g., food drops to 0.85 in depression and increases to 1.15 in boom; similar changes for metal and oil). Though I imagine that this would depend on the game engine's ability to handle decimal values and round them as appropriate.

    C. Mechanics:

    1. Building upgrades and current selection

    Proposed change: It would simplify management of building upgrades - namely for farms, houses and tech labs - if upgraded buildings remain in the current selection. For example, let's say I have four Farm Is currently selected. If I upgrade one of them to a Farm II, then that farm is removed from the current selection, which now includes three Farm Is. The change I'm proposing is that upgrading one of the farms to a Farm II should result in the current selection containing all four farms (with the "Tab" key allowing us to shift focus between the Farm Is and the Farm II).

    Why this would be helpful?: The reason this would be beneficial is that it allows control-group based management of building upgrades. In other words, as long as I'm diligent about adding newly constructed farms to my control group dedicated for Farms, then I can manage upgrades without looking back at my base.

    2. Keyboard shortcuts for building construction

    Proposed change: At the moment, there are a few overlaps in the keyboard shortcuts for ordering the construction of buildings, both via the Capital and Worker Bot:

    Construction via Capital:

    • "H" used for both HD Housing and Research Complex -> propose using "O" for Research Complex
    • "U" used for both Fusion Power Plant and University -> propose using "Y" for University

    Construction via Worker Bot:

    • "B" used for both Substation and Wall -> propose using "A" for Wall

    3. Unit priority when using mouse for boxing

    Proposed change: At the moment, Mines take precedence over all units (including worker bots). For example, let's say I have 3 worker bots next to a Silver Mine. In the current version, if a draw a box over these three worker bots which contains a part of the Silver Mine, I will end up with the Silver Mine selected instead of the workers.

    Why this would be helpful?: It would greatly simplify the management of Worker Bots when securing ownership of resources or controlling Army units. It would also align with the boxing priority of traditional, melee SC2.

    Last edited Oct 30, 2015 by iceman12121212: Formatting
  • Avatar of VasVadum VasVadum Oct 24, 2015 at 16:58 UTC - 1 like
    Emitter early game issues, I have a suggestion or two:
    Make the capital have an effect of "radiation shielding" so people inside can not die because of emitters.
    Add a non-upgradable home that has radiation shielding that stores only 10 population per home.
    You can also make it so that your capital always provides 10 supplies.

    There's an exploit in the game where you can't go bankrupt.
    Change the per tick money stuff so that upkeep and other fee related things are taken after your income is generated.
    You may also need to calculate it in this order:
    Number of population > Food Upkeep = Kill Starved? (affects TaxBal)
    Auto Sell + Tax Balance + Any other added money = Add Balance
    Upkeep + Auto Buy + Any other subtracted money = Subtract Balance

    I think it would be nice if some things worked on a per second basis rather than per tick. So science for example, you'd execute that once per second at 10% it's original value. Not sure if minerals and stuff can do decimal though. Hmm. This was just a thought though.

    I would like to see a release subjugate button, so I can let someone have their empire back.

    It might also be nice to see an archon mode where two people can control one civilization.

    I believe that the protoss should have some anti-infentry units that will be like tanks, killing hoards of foot units that people tend to use as a standard tactic. Also their base needs better anti air defenses around the edges and should upgrade over time to be more difficult, not just more health and more damage but, every 30 minutes, the protoss main base should add more turrets to it's edges and stuff. I have some ideas for that, you know how to reach me for discussing.

    End game boss is too pitiful, shields only? I usually sneeze on him and he dies. Take out his hoard of minions and he is made of glass. Give him a massive area attack, like stomping on the ground causing an immediate nuke radius attack that kills all foot soldiers, causes half max health damage to all tanks, and ignores all air. Just for example.

    Beginners have a problem getting adjusted to the game as you saw, but I just now thought of a way we can help remedy that. Use player saving slots like other games do, such as RPGs and that Parasite map where it saves "the amount of times you've played". Beginners can only choose disabled, or Easy, and can not choose normal, until they have won one game or been in a game that won on that or a higher difficulty.

    You can use this also to save a capital state, so you can choose it in one button the next time you play, three buttons on your capital at the bottom of the list that are your save slots, Save1, Save2, Save3. Possibly with hover info to show you what you last saved. And a "Save Government" button type in your capital after you choose all three. This way I can select Communism, that 4th military option, and that 4th religion option in one click.

    Might also be nice if you just have the new capital auto selected for the player so they don't have to click it again after choosing.

    Some sort of bonus to the player who kills the boss could be given to them the next and future rounds that they play, such as one additional glowy house maker upon placing capital (Sorry, forgot the name :P) But this is up for discussion as well.

    Lastly, some bug/exploit fixes that should be done;
    Place NoBuilding pathing in the crevasses on the map. This will stop enemy buildings from spawning down there, and subsequently enemies from being stuck there too (never seen happen).

    Move the enemy nexus one square away from the map corner on both sides, I've seen that some super immortals get stuck behind it.

    Make capturing resources not let a change of ownership happen so fast, like a 10 second wait time? Making it un-attackable for the duration of time. After that, it gets 20 shields again.

    Make captured resources that have a building on them, no longer have a shield. Instead, they will be destroyed and player must re-capture, then build on it again if they want it back. If you want to swap ownership to someone else, let someone click on the "allied" resource, then click a button in that menu that says "Give Ownership" that pings the owner of the resource and asks if they should give control with a yes or no button on it, denying the player from asking again for 60 seconds.

    The Diplomacy menu should not show empty player slots on it.

    Lastly, I feel you should make it so we can send all resources, not just money metal and science. So food and oil could be sent too. Also an option to share powergrid with someone could be added to your capital.

    Perhaps using a command to let you set the amount you wish to send and a series of buttons?
    Like I type in chat -set 1500, which is an invisible command that doesn't get emitted, and then click the "send food to playerx" button and it sends them 1500 if I have it.

    Or perhaps, using your diplomacy menu, you let users input an amount they wish to send, and have a credits, metal, science, food, and oil button there. The input would be at the top, the buttons would be after each player's name, using a colored row for each player so you don't click the wrong one by accident.


Date created
Sep 18, 2012
Last update
Sep 18, 2012
Development stage
  • enUS
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